Attention! Letter From David Verdesi Regarding Wang Liping

[r.w.smith]

Im sorry I dont know the Korean Masters name, However i do have the temple address where He performs calligraphy every saturday morning. You could start asking questions at the Swoon Building "Room 1203" almost directly across from the Unhyungung Palace.

 

I hope this helps in your search for this teacher smile.

 

Peace,

[nac]

I think we should start making a list of all the schools David has been kicked out from. Well not kicked out,But his presence is not really wanted. This guy pissed off two of the worlds most powerful men & now hes paying dearly for it. Im told recently his financial situation & personal life are a complete mess. The guys on the brink of destruction.

 

He has disagreements with

 

1) Mantak Chia for trying to take over his business

 

2) John Chang for selling tours to his home & stealing the Mopai concepts and theories for His LEI SHAN DAO crap.

 

3) Luo Kang Qi in Thailand. The rumours started by David stated that He (Luo) was a drunk & gambling addict. However it was later discovered the real intent behind these comments - He accepted (RETURNING STUDENTS ) without Davids permission or giving him commision.

 

4) Wang Liping for spreading countless lies about seminars & trying to monopolize on Him. Do you remember the letter that was posted here on Behalf of Wang Liping. He was a complete wake up to david & his overcharging tactics.

 

I could go on but time wont allow it,

 

Regards,

And here I thought I'd never see a track record worse than Trungpa's. As a lay lama, Trungpa reminds me of Rasputin in the movie Dark Servant of Destiny. This guy's more like a Bond villain or something...

[Vajrasattva]

I think we should start making a list of all the schools David has been kicked out from. Well not kicked out,But his presence is not really wanted. This guy pissed off two of the worlds most powerful men & now hes paying dearly for it. Im told recently his financial situation & personal life are a complete mess. The guys on the brink of destruction.

 

He has disagreements with

 

1) Mantak Chia for trying to take over his business

 

2) John Chang for selling tours to his home & stealing the Mopai concepts and theories for His LEI SHAN DAO crap.

 

3) Luo Kang Qi in Thailand. The rumours started by David stated that He (Luo) was a drunk & gambling addict. However it was later discovered the real intent behind these comments - He accepted (RETURNING STUDENTS ) without Davids permission or giving him commision.

 

4) Wang Liping for spreading countless lies about seminars & trying to monopolize on Him. Do you remember the letter that was posted here on Behalf of Wang Liping. He was a complete wake up to david & his overcharging tactics.

 

I could go on but time wont allow it,

 

Regards,

 

 

I called him on his Bullshit years ago on his forum that foundation...

[lino]

I called him on his Bullshit years ago on his forum that foundation...

 

 

Kind of curious that when a search engine is used, this thread doesn't even come close to the top.

[Gamuret]

I called him on his Bullshit years ago on his forum that foundation...

 

At the risk of indulging in Deng Xiaoping-like "mathematics" (who stated: "Mao Zedong was 30% wrong, but 70% right with how he handled things") I would say that the following is the case when it comes to David Verdesi:

 

- 1/3 of what he claims is certainly true and he does have some rather interesting abilities

- 1/3 is a mix of half-truths, disinformation, exaggeration and sometimes outright lies

- 1/3 are delusions of grandeur and self-deception on his part (emphasis on self-deception here).

 

And this is probably one of the most dangerous combinations when it comes to shaddy characters in the field of spiritual cultivation. "Merde avec chocolat" (shit with chocolate) as the French would say - mix the two together and it can look quite convincing if you do it right, but when you take a bite you're in for a nasty surprise.

 

The first step to executing a good con is to make your target doubt it's perceptions. Let us say I want to sell you a machine for which I claim can transform worthless pieces of scrap iron into gold. Now, everyone in their right mind would have the perception that this is complete nonsense - unless you can make them doubt what they perceive. The second step is to convince them about the veracity of your claim. And the third step is to appeal to your target's fears or desires (in the above case it would be the desire for wealth) so convincingly that it will swallow your offer hook, line and sinker.

 

It is not that we see the things how they really are, but how we ourselves in fact are - with all our hopes, fears, desires, etc. that modify our perception like a pair of coloured glasses.

Edited October 22, 2009 by Gamuret

[Smile]

Im sorry I dont know the Korean Masters name, However i do have the temple address where He performs calligraphy every saturday morning. You could start asking questions at the Swoon Building "Room 1203" almost directly across from the Unhyungung Palace.

 

I hope this helps in your search for this teacher smile.

 

Peace,

Thanks, I was just curious. It seems he is changing his teachers pretty often (or they just realize he is using them to make money and kick him out). I have my stuff to practice - his training is amusing but that is as far as it goes.

[Starjumper]

This guy pissed off ...

 

1) Mantak Chia...

2) John Chang...

3) Luo Kang Qi ...

4) Wang Liping...

I could go on but time wont allow it,

You can add me to the list.

 

- 1/3 of what he claims is certainly true and he does have some rather interesting abilities

- 1/3 is a mix of half-truths, disinformation, exaggeration and sometimes outright lies

- 1/3 are delusions of grandeur and self-deception on his part (emphasis on self-deception here).

 

And this is probably one of the most dangerous combinations when it comes to shaddy characters in the field of spiritual cultivation. "Merde avec chocolat" (shit with chocolate) as the French would say - mix the two together and it can look quite convincing if you do it right, but when you take a bite you're in for a nasty surprise.

ROFL, you could say the same thing about Max Turdman. Hey, I know why Max gets hit by lightening so often, it's because some people have better aim than I do, ROFL. It all worked out for the best though.

Edited October 22, 2009 by Starjumper7

[ramus]

Edited December 13, 2009 by ramus

[Pietro]

You can add me to the list.

 

Did David ever came to study with you?

Because all those people are David's teacher.

 

By the way, I am not convinced that he "pissed off" Mantak Chia. I left the HT too early to see the end of the story, but my understanding is that they were close, and as it is in any relationship people fight then they make up. My understanding is that they parted ways, but still are in good relations. Am I mistaken?

[lino]

deleted

Edited November 3, 2009 by lino

[Pietro]

Thanks, I was just curious. It seems he is changing his teachers pretty often (or they just realize he is using them to make money and kick him out). I have my stuff to practice - his training is amusing but that is as far as it goes.

funny that I end up defending David. Oh well...

 

I think another possibility is that since he has been willing to travel all around the world, and live wherever the teachers where, and just be a sponge, he could learn more rapidly. Plus of course most teachings have many elements in common, so when you meet the next teacher you do not need to relearn the basics.

 

Just a possibility, I don't really know.

 

Pietro

[Smile]

funny that I end up defending David. Oh well...

............

Yes, it is funny... Are you sure going from teacher to teacher voluntary? It is not if those teachers want nothing to do with him. And again, it may not be the case, with an exception of JC.

[RFunaki]

Well, David Shen has many students who take his courses and I yet see any complaints about the teachings or dissatisfaction with his methods. It almost all comes from people who never met him anf never took his classes. True, it is pretty expensive.

 

There are also too many stories of what is happening between him and WLP. Those stories are just that, stories, so take them with a grain of salt. They may or may not be true, but does it really matter? We all have teachers that we moved away from to study different things. If you can't afford DS's courses, why is there a need to complain about how he is after your money (which you don't have anyway)? People who pay for his classes are not forced to take them and they don't complain afterwards.

 

How is it that I've only seen this clear view of common sense once here?

 

I am a student of David's, and occasionally bounce in and out of this forum. I haven't been here for a few weeks to months, and I see the same things reoccuring constantly. I feel Smile's post is a clear view of the most logical thing that people keep overlooking. Many students pay these large fees, and are more than completely satisfied.

 

All these people that criticize David, where is their connection to him? They have not studied with him, talked to him in person, and have never even met him. How can they be so hell bent on discrediting him? This is what boggles my mind. Looking at this thread's last couple of pages, you'll see it had completely derailed into a different tangent for more than a page, and one of the select number of people who continue to trash David makes sure to put it back on course with a generic deregatory remark to continue the David bashing. It consistently makes me wonder about motives and intent. Everytime I swing by this forum I see it. Why?

 

What is even more unfortunate is the common acceptance of unproven information. Through out all the posts of David here there have been large embelishments, and mish-mashes of information that are untrue and mixed up. It's sad, because I can see where the information once had it's root, but then completely gets twisted through each node it reaches (Kind of reminds me of the telephone game) and when one person states false information, I see it re-spread later by other forum members as if it's truth, happened, and is fact Where is the validation of information on your own part?. Why do we accept these things so easily! Half of what is being said is false - months ago when I saw this happening I had a strong desire to make a bulleted list of everything that is being said, and list what I know from my first hand experience as a student, and from those I have spoken to who are also students and have studied with David. But I soon realized when reading through this forum it is pointless. There will always be opposition, and that even if I were to take my own money and fly those who criticize David to a seminar, nothing would change. There are so set on not accepting him, it would change nothing.

 

I know of no students who felt ripped off. The wonderful people I met when I attended as well as I have nothing but positives about it. I met people who have experienced the direct power of the masters, and had no doubts. I also met many people who had studied for years and had no doubts about their training - and did just that - trained, and didn't criticize other school's training, or even have any interest in an online community discussing it.

 

My experience had a very large impact on me. Actually, the whole combination of the teachings in the seminar and my experiences with those who attended, the whole trip was life changing for me. I am no longer currently a practicing student because I have recognized that my will is no there yet. My focus is currently on my career and elsewhere, and to be honest, that path requires great dedication and unrelenting will. I have no doubt that I want to take this path, but I cannot split myself between too many large things, and still give enough effort to achieve in all of them. So my focus is on my career, until 1 one of two things happens:

1. I create enough reisdual income through my career so that I stop working at least enough to follow the path with sufficient dedication

2. I realize that living comfortably does not outweigh realization and the Tao, and give up material posessions and follow the path

 

I would guess the first option is the one I will end up taking.

 

Many also criticize David for his fees - but I find it pretty fitting. In my opinion, if you are truly dedicated, you will come up with money. What better way to weed out the people who will waste what you give, and also not appreciate it. If you are not truly dedicated, and cannot muster up the discipline to earn it, then you do not have the required discipline to do the practice. The obstacles of business are nothing compared to the obstacles to heaven. Many will cry out about all these fees - but why? If you don't agree with them, don't pay them. No one is forcing you. Please choose another teacher, and I wish you the best in your practice. Which we all should be doing and leave it at that. Finding time to practice is certainly difficult, I know - but how does one also do that and find time to bash another schools practices which you've never studied, seen, or have any connection to?

 

The whole issue with Wang Liping boggles me as well. Here is how I look at it logically

- I had seen at least one picture of David with Wang Liping before this fiasco even started. (When people were claiming that he never even met Wang Liping, so already, there seemed to be some ill-intent behind some)

- At least one of the students I met and believe to be a credible person has trained with Wang Liping under David and reported very positive experience.

- Many of those who reach the level to train in such a way with the masters don't even make an appearance on any forum - the Foundation training or this forum - so there side is never heard. What you instead here is many stories from people who don't study with David or any of the masters in question, but for some reason are following any news about David with a fine-toothed comb waiting to find some type of inconsistency to attack, and feel that there second hand information on the matter is more credible than another's first hand information.

- Students take up much of spreading the word about David. David is many times on retreats training and rarely even makes an appearance on our own forum but maybe every few weeks-months lately, so those who are more connected with the electronic social world work with him to organize seminars and such, and relay the information back to the online populace. I'm not sure what happened with the Wang Liping seminar, because even forum members and students were unsure of what the situation was as during this period David was in retreat often, and our only updates on what David's current situation was, was students who had just returned back from training with him. In this kind of disconnected path of information, I can see a seminar being planned, canceled, moved, etc (Often, last minute adjustments have been made with seminars in the past as many forum members will know, it seems to me it comes from this disconnection and also from the fact that David has many things to do with his own training, teaching, and obligations to his teachers. I don't even recall solid confirmation of the seminar or active registration as with a normal seminar - when I first heard about it, I thought it was just being proposed from the senior students in Denmark in accordance with David, and had not yet been solidified.

 

Basically, I write this post not to encourage people to train with David, but to tell people to make their own judgements. This goes not only for what's said about David, but any teacher or anybody or thing. Make sure to get the voices from both sides, and if you can, check it out for yourself. I honestly hope for all of us that we each find our teacher(s) that will lead us along the way to the true path, it is very individual for all of us, and we will undoubtedly not all have the same teacher that guides us - but, make sure you find yours based on your own feelings and desires. It would be truly unfortunate if you passed up a good oppurtunity based on someones misinformation or ill intent.

 

Thanks,

- Rick F.

[genmaicha]

It seems to me that you're justifying all the money you spent to yourself.

 

Still, it's not that people write here who haven't met David. Ramus said that he has studied with David.

 

Also, the facts around the Denmark seminar are pretty clear to all who have read the posts by Hsiao Weijia. David and his colleagues advertised the seminar even though Wang Liping never agreed to come.

 

Now, David certainly has some things to offer. I guess so at least, because he's been occupied with learning Daoist methods for many years. And I can understand that he needs to support himself.

Still it seems he's feeding off the gullible and desperate, like these guys selling secrets to 'get the girl', and here it is with super powers.

The way the marketing is done reflects on the guy offering the stuff. I mean he advertised himself as a PhD without having one. Come on.

 

But everybody can do what they want. Still, the internet is here to share information and help people make more informed decisions.

[YMWong]

There will always be opposition, and that even if I were to take my own money and fly those who criticize David to a seminar, nothing would change.

There are so set on not accepting him, it would change nothing.

 

True, of course, but you seem to fail to realize that the same (but opposite) thing is also true with you guys (DV supporters): he could kick your ass and you would still find an excuse for him ...

 

YM

[Gamuret]

True, of course, but you seem to fail to realize that the same (but opposite) thing is also true with you guys (DV supporters): he could kick your ass and you would still find an excuse for him ...

 

YM

 

Could somebody please give this gentleman a fine Cuban cigar? He's spot on!

 

...

 

The way the marketing is done reflects on the guy offering the stuff. I mean he advertised himself as a PhD without having one. Come on.

 

...

 

Exactly! The old question still remains unaswered, therefore perhaps RFunaki will be so kind to help us out. David Verdesi has been advertising himself variously as Dr. David Verdesi or David Verdesi Ph.D.

 

He is even now claiming that he is a Ph. D. - for your reference: http://www.wayn.com/waynprofile.html?member_key=11773729

 

Please look under "david-verdesi's Details" in the above link. He is still declaring that he has a doctoral degree.

 

Now, from which university precisely did David Verdesi obtain his Ph. D., when exactly was this and in which discipline (religious studies, etnography, medical anthropology, etc.)?

[Neikung]

All these people that criticize David, where is their connection to him? They have not studied with him, talked to him in person, and have never even met him. How can they be so hell bent on discrediting him?

Has it occurred to you that your assumption might be incorrect? I know that several of the taobums members here have actually talked to David in person and know first hand that many of his claims are incorrect and outlandish.

 

Many also criticize David for his fees - but I find it pretty fitting. In my opinion, if you are truly dedicated, you will come up with money.... Many will cry out about all these fees - but why? If you don't agree with them, don't pay them. No one is forcing you.

His fees are high but I don't think this is the main issue. You are correct that if people want to pay, that is their prerogative. I am sure if Wang Liping charges a high fee there will be some initial complaints but that would be all. The problem with David is that he claimed so many things that are untrue. You can do David a great favor by answering a question raised by Gamuret and Genmaicha for example. It should be easy to clarify David's "Ph.D." degree if he has one. Common sense tells us that anyone who has a Ph.D. degree should be proud to tell the world about his/her graduate institution and his/her thesis title!

[Baguakid]

Many also criticize David for his fees - but I find it pretty fitting. In my opinion, if you are truly dedicated, you will come up with money. What better way to weed out the people who will waste what you give, and also not appreciate it. If you are not truly dedicated, and cannot muster up the discipline to earn it, then you do not have the required discipline to do the practice. The obstacles of business are nothing compared to the obstacles to heaven. Many will cry out about all these fees - but why? If you don't agree with them, don't pay them. No one is forcing you. Please choose another teacher, and I wish you the best in your practice. Which we all should be doing and leave it at that.

 

I know nothing about David, what he teaches, or how much he charges but if his fees are high then the quality damn sure better be high as well. I would also expect no BS spoon feeding and carrot baiting as well. If I'm going to pay high fees for qigong instruction I expect the entire exercise be taught in clarity. No, "well you gotta use your Wu", or "well, it didn't work for you because you didn't do this or that".

 

I am incensed with the way some qigong teachers handle themselves. Basically it's YOYO (you're on your own) and I don't have time to guide you, the student, into the proper path. I've met some who could care less about a student's well being and are only concerned with their own self promotion and ego petting, and are happy to waste people's time and money to that end.

 

I've been in this for over 25 years and the quality qigong masters I've met can be counted on one hand, and not use all the fingers.

[r.w.smith]

This Wang Liping thing keeps popping up again & again. Everybody who comes here knows that David bullshitted about the entire Wang Liping Seminar. Man why do you students keep making excuses for his lies ?

 

I second what Neikung said above........ I would love to know where this guy RF Funaki getis his Information from. How in the Hell would He know who has met David or even the Identities of the Memebrs here. We could be anybody.

 

Do you have some kind of special technology that allows you to see into peoples computers or something ?

 

Btw....the Youtube video looks strange,David looks hmmmm....... Well Im not going to come straight out & label him one here. But one look at the guy & you can see something definatly aint right.

 

Cheers,

[r.w.smith]

I know nothing about David, what he teaches, or how much he charges but if his fees are high then the quality damn sure better be high as well. I would also expect no BS spoon feeding and carrot baiting as well. If I'm going to pay high fees for qigong instruction I expect the entire exercise be taught in clarity. No, "well you gotta use your Wu", or "well, it didn't work for you because you didn't do this or that".

 

I am incensed with the way some qigong teachers handle themselves. Basically it's YOYO (you're on your own) and I don't have time to guide you, the student, into the proper path. I've met some who could care less about a student's well being and are only concerned with their own self promotion and ego petting, and are happy to waste people's time and money to that end.

 

I've been in this for over 25 years and the quality qigong masters I've met can be counted on one hand, and not use all the fingers.

 

 

The training is advanced basics at its best. Lets start at the beginning, How High Level can Xing Shen Zhuang really be ? Not only is it a rudimentary practice available anywhere, But Its been pointed out countless times that the same if not better instructions are offered elsewhere,by much more knowledegable Teachers at a fraction of the cost.

 

The teachers details who taught David this method have been made public here several times. Yet they always have some poetic excuse as to why David can teach it better blah blah blah.

 

Until somebody confronts this guy with a video camera speculation is going to run wild. If he's such a hardcore Traditionist then it should be settled in the Traditional manner. Vidoe tapes dont lie & this is whats needed to humiliate this monster out of the game.

 

Remember Wing Chun Grandmaster William Cheung, The only guy in the world to learn the Deadly secrets of Dim Mak from Yip Man ? Below is a video of when he was beaten up at one of his seminars by a Master of a rival Wing Chun faction. This stuff needs to happen more often to expose the fakers & frauds.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2fNPW9OgmY

 

Note: Dim Mak & pressure points,accupuncture are highly respected & viable arts. However as anything there are always clowns who ruin the genuine thing for everybody else.

 

Regards,

[Aetherous]

But one look at the guy & you can see something definatly aint right.

 

He looks like a fairly normal human being to me...

 

I'm NOT a Verdesi supporter. I just think the intense hatred and aggression towards him here is disturbing.

 

And this is just plain sad...

 

Until somebody confronts this guy with a video camera speculation is going to run wild. If he's such a hardcore Traditionist then it should be settled in the Traditional manner. Vidoe tapes dont lie & this is whats needed to humiliate this monster out of the game.

 

Remember Wing Chun Grandmaster William Cheung, The only guy in the world to learn the Deadly secrets of Dim Mak from Yip Man ? Below is a video of when he was beaten up at one of his seminars by a Master of a rival Wing Chun faction. This stuff needs to happen more often to expose the fakers & frauds.

 

You want someone to video tape beating him up? He's not even a martial artist. How could you humiliate a teacher of the Tao on camera? Out-meditate him?

 

I hope that it's against the rules here to organize a beating. If it's not, it should be...that's just ridiculous. This is a Taoist forum.

 

Be calm!

[Eternal_Student]

Defamation of character and essentially terroristic threats.

These are illegal.

 

You can say no thanks to a particular style, but when you start bashing, you are incurring negative attention and therefore negative karma. A serious practitioner should be aware of this...

 

This is embarrassing and quite childish.

 

You wonder why you don't attract quality people in the forum and quality instructors, look at your own inability to see your connectedness to everyone. You still see yourself as separate? mmm....

[fizix]

William Cheung a fraud/fake? I'm afraid you don't know your martial arts my friend, or at least the wing chun style. Also, in the video you posted, it is well known that he was jumped from behind; why would the recording of an 'organized fight' start already into it and not the beginning? It was not fair.

[r.w.smith]

William Cheung a fraud/fake? I'm afraid you don't know your martial arts my friend, or at least the wing chun style. Also, in the video you posted, it is well known that he was jumped from behind; why would the recording of an 'organized fight' start already into it and not the beginning? It was not fair.

 

It doesnt matter if he was attacked front on or from behind. Hes a martial arts master. Why didnt his Chi Sao Sensitivity protect Him in the first place. Again say what you will,but he had his ass handed to him in that match.

 

And to that other guy, Dont try & bring all that legal defamation crap into this discussion. Thats a classic excuse for all cowards. This is a martial arts forum & theres always going to be minor conflicts & sometimes heated arguments.

 

Regards,

 

He looks like a fairly normal human being to me...

 

I'm NOT a Verdesi supporter. I just think the intense hatred and aggression towards him here is disturbing.

 

And this is just plain sad...

You want someone to video tape beating him up? He's not even a martial artist. How could you humiliate a teacher of the Tao on camera? Out-meditate him?

 

I hope that it's against the rules here to organize a beating. If it's not, it should be...that's just ridiculous. This is a Taoist forum.

 

Be calm!

 

Who said anything about bashing David ? I said the guy needs to be confronted with a video camera. In a previous article i said a"Friendly" exchange of power could take place. Yes more masters ought to be taught a Lesson......but show me once where i ever said we are going to Bash David.

[RFunaki]

Could somebody please give this gentleman a fine Cuban cigar? He's spot on!

Exactly! The old question still remains unaswered, therefore perhaps RFunaki will be so kind to help us out. David Verdesi has been advertising himself variously as Dr. David Verdesi or David Verdesi Ph.D.

 

He is even now claiming that he is a Ph. D. - for your reference: http://www.wayn.com/waynprofile.html?member_key=11773729

 

Please look under "david-verdesi's Details" in the above link. He is still declaring that he has a doctoral degree.

 

Now, from which university precisely did David Verdesi obtain his Ph. D., when exactly was this and in which discipline (religious studies, etnography, medical anthropology, etc.)?

 

You know what's funny about this whole situation is that I never heard David once say he had a Ph. D. A few of the students and I one day during the off-time arranged to have tea with David to talk/ask questions, etc. One of the students was very interested in studying in the comparative religion/anthropology field, and asked David what university he attended, in specific detail (He even handed his notebook to David and asked him to write it down, as he was going to look into the school as a potential university for himself) - I do not remember what he wrote, but maybe I can get the information from this student as to what university it was.

 

Also, the first time I had seen the Ph.D referenced was through a student. We were working on the new layout for the Foundation forum (I am a professional in the computer field and helped on one of the websites), and one of the students who volunteered with the layout attached "Ph. D" to David Verdesi's name and info in the title. Within 1-2 days later upon David seeing the site, asked him to remove it. (Mind you, this was before anyone had even questioned it or seen it, actually months before) Why? I don't know - maybe he doesn't actually have a Ph.D - I haven't heard it from him one way or the other. As I said earlier, all this word being put out is usually from students. Seems like communication error to me. If I were to ask anyone that I met who attended if they knew whether or not David has a Ph.D, I would assume most of them wouldn't know, or care. I don't even know what that social networking page you linked to is, and have doubts as to whether or not David or his students created this for him (You'll notice the reusing of a single photo from one David's websites from years ago - that is the same photo for the social networking page linked to above - Those of us who worked on any of his sites, etc have more than just that single photo - it's actually pretty funny to me) what's even stranger is considering that if I don't know of this page as a student, how is it that you know of it, and how did you come across it? Do you specifically go out and look for Verdesi information on the web all day?

 

About the reply earlier stating that it seems my post was an effort to justify the sum of money spent to myself - it could not be farther from the truth. As I said earlier, the entire experience was life changing for me, and I would not trade it for the world.

 

Also, in reply to the comment that if David were to kick our ass, we would still "follow" him is also I believe an assumption from this specific community. The training I attended was a mix of many people which I found extremely interesting. Many of the students had studied with different teachers prior to attending the seminar. Some came from Healing Tao, at least one studied with Bruce Frantzis, and many of the students studied in different schools that I can't recall or don't remember specific names to throughout their lifetime as many of us do, and will do. Among all the students who had these different backgrounds, a few of them came into the training not expecting to leave their own school and training, but to see what David had to offer and give it a chance. One student I spoke to came into the seminar with the same opinion of David's students that you allude to, that more or less we would be bowing at his feet and praising him when we walked in the door. He was surprised to find it to be completely different. His own comments of the situation at the end of the seminar was that David was very accessible and down to earth, and I had seen this student and many others casually chat with David before and after class some days - there was no distance or a "higher-than-thou" attitude. A few of the students I trained with also did not continue to train with David after the seminar, but went on to study with different schools and different paths - which I have absolutely no problem with. But I have not heard negative feelings or regret regarding their decision to train with him since.

 

As pointed out in one of the replies to my post about me making an assumption regarding the members identities - you are absolutely right - I don't know who you are, I am only making an assumption. I know of only two members on this forum that have trained with David for sure (Both of which I met personally, and they haven't made posts bashing David), and 1 member that has met/worked with David in the past. This is what I'm basing it on. But please, to clear the assumption, for those who criticize David, please elaborate on your connection to him, and when you trained with him so that I may verify the information for myself. This is the only real way to get the truth - is it not? If you cannot post a clear connection, then it is a question of intent.

 

Specifically, I would like to hear the connections of Gamuret, Neikung, houtian, and r.w. smith. I can verify and post proof that I am a student and have met and trained with David - can you at least post proof that you met David, or where you are getting your information? I point out these users specifically because they seem to lead the false information front. What's even more surprising is if you do a search of Gamuret or Neikung's previous posts on this forum, the majority of them (if not every single one) is related to bashing David Verdesi, and there seems to be no other posts from these users in relation to any other topic or aspect of the forum. Why is this?

 

I have also seen at least 1 user who was kicked out of the Foundation training forum that attends this forum, later bashing David on this site (Having never trained with him or met him, clearly bitter about being kicked out). This student also claimed to have some sort of "secret" information to incriminate David, and that he would reveal it under certain circumstances, etc, etc. There was no secret incriminating information, and nothing was ever revealed from this user. If you search the previous posts you will see allusions to this more than once, with nothing coming to fruit in the end. Why is this?

 

Eternal Student and Scotty both bring up very valid points, and frankly I'm surprised to find that it is rarely brought up. This is a forum dedicated to the Tao - so why such awful comments and suggestions? Why such hatred and berating? Please ask yourself these questions of anyone who treats other people this way.

 

Thanks,

- Rick F