A Meditation Experience

[11:33]

Hello everyone,

 

I want to share an experience I had a couple months ago in and after wuji stance standing meditation practice at the end of my cih-kung session.

 

I have recently been experiencing really clear and thoughtless standing zen mediation, and in this particular practice session I had a revelation occur to me.

 

When I was thoughtless in meditation, I 'saw' that the idea that common humans think of as *I*, or *you*, are not accurate descriptions of life. I saw that what I normally think of as Me (or any *I*, actually) is not a unique and separate entity. What I saw was a being who couldn't exist without infinite factors from outside me. And that he wouldn't even exist as he knows himself to be without all of these factors. I saw that in fact, that which is outside of my body (all of Earth - all nations - all everything - all space, planets, galaxies, etc) is actually intimately married to him.

 

And I 'saw' that somehow the idea of *I* is a misperception, or a inaccurate way of seeing myself. I saw that I could not be, without the world. And that the world could not be as it is without me. So in a sense I saw the world like a very large creature, and what I think of as *Me* is like a appendage of that creature.

 

I 'saw' a very real intertwining with all of reality, and I saw that nothing I do doesn't effect everything. And that there is nothing I can do that ever will not effect everything.

 

I came away from that experience with the words, "Harm to One is Harm to All" very strongly resounding inside my mind-heart, as a reminder.

 

I have in the past been a very, very individuality-centric person. I won't say I've been a selfish jerk, but I have valued the idea of individuality a LOT. And to me that very idea of individuality is based in the assumption that we are separate entities, that are not effecting the world around us. And that all comes down to our definitions (or assumed definitions) of the words "I" and "you", and related words based on the concepts that exists as natural, inherent offshoots of these two base concepts.

 

In that meditation, I 'saw' that the above bolded line simply isn't true. Quite the contrary; I saw that nothing I do isn't effecting everything. But I 'saw' that most people trained from birth in the concepts of *I* and *you* are existing within certain assumptions about who we are that aren't accurate. I saw that these assumptions are causing humanity many many of its problems, as it assumes separation.

 

It has been a very meaningful revelation for me. I will carry the words, "Harm to One is Harm to All" with me where ever I go now.

 

What do you think, and why do you think it?

Edited May 19, 2009 by 11:33

[Trevcaru]

I think you should forget about it.

[11:33]

So should I forget about what I know? And then I can go back to not knowing what I know? So then I could pretend you aren't connected to me?

 

Seems shaky.

 

I have edited my original post to say,

 

"What do you think, and why do you think it?"

 

because without the why, then I have nothing to go on. You think I should forget it. This amounts to very little help.

[dragonfire]

So should I forget about what I know? And then I can go back to not knowing what I know? So then I could pretend you aren't connected to me?

 

Seems shaky.

 

I have edited my original post to say,

 

"What do you think, and why do you think it?"

 

because without the why, then I have nothing to go on. You think I should forget it. This amounts to very little help.

 

Thats very good revelation IF you got it yourself. Meaning, it did come to you from

just meditation and not some other material source. You will

find that through meditation, it will reveal more of the truth to you.

Keep going.

Edited May 19, 2009 by dragonfire

[Trevcaru]

So should I forget about what I know? And then I can go back to not knowing what I know? So then I could pretend you aren't connected to me?

 

Seems shaky.

 

I have edited my original post to say,

 

"What do you think, and why do you think it?"

 

because without the why, then I have nothing to go on. You think I should forget it. This amounts to very little help.

 

Well, you will never actually 'forget' it. But its an experience that is in the past now, and in some regard it stays with you; like a pathway that has changed its course. It is irreversible, and so there is no need to cling to any experience you may have had. This is very important, i feel, because the past is continually being emulated by thought via filters that the mind overlays in the perception. This kind of strife is not freedom, but imitation of course. So, my comment is easily read and easily heard, but it is important to see the danger of imitation. Like a friend says, "begin again anew". Theres no need to worry about 'loosing' something you have experienced. It is rare for the mind to see that the past is already lost to time and so it imitates, and creates, and accumulates experience, and all the other things that come with desire. When you saw these things, were you emulating, were you imitating? Im guessing not, so this is why i say forget about it in this context.

[11:33]

Trevcaru,

 

Thank you for explaining what you meant more in full. It makes sense.

 

11:33

[Jedi777]

Hello everyone,

 

I want to share an experience I had a couple months ago in and after wuji stance standing meditation practice at the end of my cih-kung session.

 

I have recently been experiencing really clear and thoughtless standing zen mediation, and in this particular practice session I had a revelation occur to me.

 

When I was thoughtless in meditation, I 'saw' that the idea that common humans think of as *I*, or *you*, are not accurate descriptions of life. I saw that what I normally think of as Me (or any *I*, actually) is not a unique and separate entity. What I saw was a being who couldn't exist without infinite factors from outside me. And that he wouldn't even exist as he knows himself to be without all of these factors. I saw that in fact, that which is outside of my body (all of Earth - all nations - all everything - all space, planets, galaxies, etc) is actually intimately married to him.

 

And I 'saw' that somehow the idea of *I* is a misperception, or a inaccurate way of seeing myself. I saw that I could not be, without the world. And that the world could not be as it is without me. So in a sense I saw the world like a very large creature, and what I think of as *Me* is like a appendage of that creature.

 

I 'saw' a very real intertwining with all of reality, and I saw that nothing I do doesn't effect everything. And that there is nothing I can do that ever will not effect everything.

 

I came away from that experience with the words, "Harm to One is Harm to All" very strongly resounding inside my mind-heart, as a reminder.

 

I have in the past been a very, very individuality-centric person. I won't say I've been a selfish jerk, but I have valued the idea of individuality a LOT. And to me that very idea of individuality is based in the assumption that we are separate entities, that are not effecting the world around us. And that all comes down to our definitions (or assumed definitions) of the words "I" and "you", and related words based on the concepts that exists as natural, inherent offshoots of these two base concepts.

 

In that meditation, I 'saw' that the above bolded line simply isn't true. Quite the contrary; I saw that nothing I do isn't effecting everything. But I 'saw' that most people trained from birth in the concepts of *I* and *you* are existing within certain assumptions about who we are that aren't accurate. I saw that these assumptions are causing humanity many many of its problems, as it assumes separation.

 

It has been a very meaningful revelation for me. I will carry the words, "Harm to One is Harm to All" with me where ever I go now.

 

What do you think, and why do you think it?

nice exp of oneness

[Lucky7Strikes]

"Harm to one is harm to all" can easily be misconceived as...as Charles Manson put it: "If everything is one then nothing wrong," or "Harm to all is Harm to no ONE." So I would be careful to come away with such a statement, since it can easily be manipulated within the mind. I would also hesitate to conclude that there is no individuality. I believe that matter is, as you did, to be experienced and not to be conceptualized. Lol...so as Trevcaru said...forget it..?

[11:33]

"Harm to one is harm to all" can easily be misconceived as...as Charles Manson put it: "If everything is one then nothing wrong," or "Harm to all is Harm to no ONE." So I would be careful to come away with such a statement, since it can easily be manipulated within the mind. I would also hesitate to conclude that there is no individuality. I believe that matter is, as you did, to be experienced and not to be conceptualized. Lol...so as Trevcaru said...forget it..?

 

In my opinion, that is just a case of misusing logic (incorrect logic). Neither of those two statements follow logically from what I experienced.

 

Also, I would like to point out I never said that there is no individuality.

[Lucky7Strikes]

In my opinion, that is just a case of misusing logic (incorrect logic). Neither of those two statements follow logically from what I experienced.

 

Also, I would like to point out I never said that there is no individuality.

 

It is not a misuse of logic in the sense that the phrase "harm to one is harm to all" will resonate rightfully when one is within the peaceful state of compassion/oneness. And unless that phrase precisely brings that feeling of compassion within you at the moment of its conception, your mind can play with the concept for negative means.

 

For example in the moment of desire (a bad one in this case let's say), your mind may go "harm to one is harm to all" then question what exactly this "one" is (as that desire will try its best to justify itself) and concluding that since "one" is only in relation of the "all" that there really is no harm from one to another, but only the harming itself (in which case it will no longer be understood as "harm").

 

What precisely is individuality? You claim that nothing you do isn't affecting everything. And so everything affects what "YOU" do. And so what exactly is "YOUR" doing? You state these very same sentiments in your description of your experience.

 

I am simply trying to say that the notion of oneness can easily become a double edged sword for the mind.

[11:33]

I am simply trying to say that the notion of oneness can easily become a double edged sword for the mind.

 

The illusion of separation is just garbage though. I'll take a potential double-edge sword over garbage

[Lucky7Strikes]

The illusion of separation is just garbage though. I'll take a potential double-edge sword over garbage

 

HAHA, good luck then! I will go recycle... . I do appreciate you sharing your experiences earnestly. .