I have specific spiritual goals

[innerspace_cadet]

One of the goals I have in life is to reach a state of mind where I can approach every situation, no matter how difficult, with equanimity. So if something really "bad" happens to me, I will be able to react with mental ripples, not mental tidal waves. Another goal I have is to regard life and death as equals, so I am not afraid of either.

 

My problem is that I tend to jump from one spiritual practice to another. I have struggled mightily against this tendency. So far I have stuck with Silent Illumination meditation of the Zen tradition. But is it okay to practice more than one form of meditation? Or is it better to become adept at just one?

[tigger1]

One of the goals I have in life is to reach a state of mind where I can approach every situation, no matter how difficult, with equanimity. So if something really "bad" happens to me, I will be able to react with mental ripples, not mental tidal waves. Another goal I have is to regard life and death as equals, so I am not afraid of either.

 

My problem is that I tend to jump from one spiritual practice to another. I have struggled mightily against this tendency. So far I have stuck with Silent Illumination meditation of the Zen tradition. But is it okay to practice more than one form of meditation? Or is it better to become adept at just one?

 

"Tend to jump from one spiritual practice to another" Hmm...I have found that all practices are merely ritual surrounding the "Tao". So, jumping from one to another really doesn't mean anything the Tao is still the Tao regardless of any actions you take. Try instead to cast away your conditioning to believe there is a differance.

It is okay to meditate any way you choose. Either with or without pomp & ritual if it brings you closer to your essence. The Tao ( at least thats how I feel)

[contrivedname!]

My problem is that I tend to jump from one spiritual practice to another. I have struggled mightily against this tendency. So far I have stuck with Silent Illumination meditation of the Zen tradition. But is it okay to practice more than one form of meditation? Or is it better to become adept at just one?

 

why struggle mightily against that tendency? i would think for some one single practice is enough and others might cause distraction, whilst for others they may do better with multiple traditions, perhaps to "fill in the gaps" where other practices are lacking. does this tendency feel impulsive or contrived, or does it feel "natural"?

 

just a thought, by struggling against that tendency perhaps you are precieving something that is occuring in your mind as "bad" and thus inducing your own "mental tidal waves" for no reason.

[WhiteTiger]

Innerspace_cadet, personally "In my opinion" (which really only applies to me) I would stick out one until its luster ends.

 

just a thought, by struggling against that tendency perhaps you are precieving something that is occuring in your mind as "bad" and thus inducing your own "mental tidal waves" for no reason.

 

Very nicely said!

[11:33]

Hi Innerspace_Cadet,

 

It is my opinion that if you have clear goals then the next step is to search for people who

 

1) have achieved those goals, and

 

2) are confident in their ability to transmit or show you the way to experiencing them for yourself.

 

3) are willing to

 

All the Best,

11:33

[hagar]

One of the goals I have in life is to reach a state of mind where I can approach every situation, no matter how difficult, with equanimity. So if something really "bad" happens to me, I will be able to react with mental ripples, not mental tidal waves. Another goal I have is to regard life and death as equals, so I am not afraid of either.

 

My problem is that I tend to jump from one spiritual practice to another. I have struggled mightily against this tendency. So far I have stuck with Silent Illumination meditation of the Zen tradition. But is it okay to practice more than one form of meditation? Or is it better to become adept at just one?

 

Goals are tricky. They tend to magically transform as the inner lanscape transforms along the path.

 

My take is that goals are good to have when you go shopping, want to be a world class curling captain, or take a PhD. Spiritual goals on the other hand may more often than not be something approaching a troll.

 

When working with ourselves, it's important not to have 3 aspects worked out. This is particularly relevant for spirutual practice. Please bear with my "storytelling" tendency here, as these pointers are meant just as much to myself as to any other:

 

1. For the deep and subtle stuff in life it's important not to become overly serious, yet deeply honest. If you reach a degree of sincerity and self-acceptance as to the vague and often unresolved issues that seeps through any "clear and defined" goal, your all set. Never, at any point, forget that. Life hurts. No goalsetting will change that. But we can have a sens of humor about it.

 

2. Dwell on your uncertainties and ambivalence, yet aim at resolving them. This proves to be particularly important when you reach the "disenchantment" phase. It dawned on me that all the reasons I started with my practice had at one point become utterly absurd. Why? Mainly because they all revolved around Me. After a couple of really boring phases, and then some experiences beyond words, the folly of trying to improve myself came abit clearer. Sometimes the aspiration of getting somewhere and not getting anywhere seems fuse into a paradox. Actually to be completely confused and comletely resolved are closer than you might think.

 

3. Don't confuse your true nature with your ever-present urge to identify with your preferred practice of choice. We have all flaunted and advertised our beliefs and practices, and I for one have "stunk of Dao". It's understandable, yet we are vastly more agreeable and easy to relate to for fellow humans if we are just us. your practice is no more "you" than your Iphone.

On the other hand, the only way out of this impasse is to identify with your practice to such a degree that it dissapears, and becomes invisible, ingrained in you. Make a decision to stick with it, and leave no room for choice. Then real integration can start. I find this stage incredibly difficult. It's like relationships.

 

The older we get the chance for something BAD happening increases, and finally becomes inevitable. No practice in the world will change that. So insted of hoping that a practice can make you immune to lifes storms, practice should make you totally raw, experiencing the storm completely. The eye of the storm is always somwhere else.

 

Jeeez this was too long and again too many """". Apologies.

 

h

[Pietro]

One of the goals I have in life is to reach a state of mind where I can approach every situation, no matter how difficult, with equanimity. So if something really "bad" happens to me, I will be able to react with mental ripples, not mental tidal waves. Another goal I have is to regard life and death as equals, so I am not afraid of either.

 

My problem is that I tend to jump from one spiritual practice to another. I have struggled mightily against this tendency. So far I have stuck with Silent Illumination meditation of the Zen tradition. But is it okay to practice more than one form of meditation? Or is it better to become adept at just one?

 

Would you be ok with being able to have the mental waves pass through you, and then leave you. No matter how big they are? Because asking to have waves only of a certain size is essentially asking to control life. And no amount of meditation can do that. On the other hand being unattached to your waves is something that can be reached, and many meditation can help you in this regard.

 

And I do agree that it is better to stick to one school. And with the meditations of one school. They often have complementary effects. While mixing can be useless or even dangerous.

[hagar]

Would you be ok with being able to have the mental waves pass through you, and then leave you. No matter how big they are? Because asking to have waves only of a certain size is essentially asking to control life. And no amount of meditation can do that. On the other hand being unattached to your waves is something that can be reached, and many meditation can help you in this regard.

 

And I do agree that it is better to stick to one school. And with the meditations of one school. They often have complementary effects. While mixing can be useless or even dangerous.

 

I second Pietro, as his reply was really more to the point. He is also my senior, so you should listen to him.

 

h

[Pietro]

I second Pietro, as his reply was really more to the point. He is also my senior, so you should listen to him.

 

h

Hagar, I am not your senior but your peer. In fact I look up to you, as you have a family, and I don't.

 

Your reply was absolutely correct. I just had little time to read it. Your concept of experiencing the storm completely (as long as you do not get attached to it) will in fact let the waves pass. As such my suggestion was included in yours, if I only had read it before writing mine I would have refered to it.

[hagar]

Hagar, I am not your senior but your peer. In fact I look up to you, as you have a family, and I don't.

 

Your reply was absolutely correct. I just had little time to read it. Your concept of experiencing the storm completely (as long as you do not get attached to it) will in fact let the waves pass. As such my suggestion was included in yours, if I only had read it before writing mine I would have refered to it.

 

I was referring to you having been signed up here at TB ages before me, not to speak of the HT forum. Family or not, how can one not envy someone who can sit and enjoy an aperetivo at a Piazza-of-choice, in a pleasant climate, at his leisure, while overlooking Roman ruins.

 

h

[erdweir]

One of the goals I have in life is to reach a state of mind where I can approach every situation, no matter how difficult, with equanimity. So if something really "bad" happens to me, I will be able to react with mental ripples, not mental tidal waves. Another goal I have is to regard life and death as equals, so I am not afraid of either.

 

My problem is that I tend to jump from one spiritual practice to another. I have struggled mightily against this tendency. So far I have stuck with Silent Illumination meditation of the Zen tradition. But is it okay to practice more than one form of meditation? Or is it better to become adept at just one?

 

 

God I hear that. I started doing Mantak Chia's practices and am looking for something else now. It was able to get me into a good non-reactive state but I had weird energetic issues from the practice and creepy shit started happening to me so I backed off from it. I didnt have a teacher so who knows how flawed the practices were. for myself, I can say they weren't right. Not grounded enough for me. Now I am trying to work on basic stillness and breathing. Sitting still is hard for me, but I am getting better at it. I guess as long as you keep looking for something and working on it then you are doing the right thing. But some would say the opposite, that searching is the problem... so Zen. And you can end up with bad people out there. I think there are allot of different ways to get to the same place, it is more of a matter of how you want to get there. I think if you find a practice you can work with, you should stick with it for a while and see where it takes you. otherwise you are just flitting around dabbling in this and that.

 

I also like what Hagar is saying above, about how tricky spiritual goals can be, I find this a strange problem myself. On one hand goals can motivate me, on the other they can trick me into thinking I am trying to fill a spiritual bank account or some such nonsense. Having some emotional stability is not such a crazy spiritual aspiration though, it a just a good foundation you (and also myself) are looking for.

Edited May 22, 2009 by erdweir

[contrivedname!]

And I do agree that it is better to stick to one school. And with the meditations of one school. They often have complementary effects. While mixing can be useless or even dangerous.

 

to each their own. but i would post a hypothetical question: does wisdom have a "school"? or are the various schools simply different interpretations and different apendages pointing to the same tao?

 

also, didn't buddhism and daoism kind of "merge" to create ch'an? not to mention sikhism... but i really dont know jack about that "school/religion/practice"

 

i really enjoyed

 

"Would you be ok with being able to have the mental waves pass through you, and then leave you. No matter how big they are? Because asking to have waves only of a certain size is essentially asking to control life. And no amount of meditation can do that. On the other hand being unattached to your waves is something that can be reached, and many meditation can help you in this regard."

 

consise and to the pointe

 

-chris

[Pietro]

Hello Chris,

 

Thanks to have post this question.

 

to each their own.

Hmm, not really. People drive on the right of the road in Italy, on the left in the UK. In this regard you can say to each their own. But you really cannot drive on the left in Italy or on the right in the UK. Some things are external of us. If they depend on our agreement we reach it, and then we stick to it. If they depend on nature, we observe them, measure them, describe them, and then once we found an agreement we stick to it.

Then there are opinions, and in this regard you can say to each their own.

But spiritual life is not an opinion. And this also is not an opinion. The fact is that being difficult to observe from the outside and mostly impossible to measure we are confused to think that whatever happens inside is the equivalent to an opinion. Totally subjective, and thus unfit for any external review. Not really. You really can harm yourself by doing things the wrong way. This does not mean that you should not explore. Just that there is threading through known land, and exploring. And generally the first is less dangerous than the second. Objectively.

 

 

but i would post a hypothetical question: does wisdom have a "school"? or are the various schools simply different interpretations and different apendages pointing to the same tao?

 

Ha(!), the false dicotomy.

 

Of course no school have all the wisdom.

And it is also incorrect to think that all the schools point to the same place. Some school do, some school do not. Sometime two schools in two different traditions point to the same goal, while you can find traditions where two schools inside the same tradition are actually pointing to different places.

 

Generally you can study in a school, and once you have mastered that school, and reached a supreme level there you can expand in another school. And maybe reach a sinthesis between those two schools. But if you do this before having understood the ins and outs of your school you are in dangerous unexplored land. Here be dragons.

 

 

also, didn't buddhism and daoism kind of "merge" to create ch'an?

 

They truly danced together for more than a thousand years. The daoism that mixed with Buddhism to create chan was already a form of daoism that was heavily influenced by buddhism.

 

My two take away points are:

1) spiritual life is an objective journey which can hardy be observed from the outside. As such claims about it should be taken as objective claims.

2) In spiritual life there are threaded paths, explorations, and well known dead ends. You should know in every moment which of the three you are taking.

[erdweir]

 

Generally you can study in a school, and once you have mastered that school, and reached a supreme level there you can expand in another school. And maybe reach a sinthesis between those two schools. But if you do this before having understood the ins and outs of your school you are in dangerous unexplored land. Here be dragons.

They truly danced together for more than a thousand years. The daoism that mixed with Buddhism to create chan was already a form of daoism that was heavily influenced by buddhism.

 

 

My thoughts exactly. You have to understand the rules before you can break them.

[mgd]

One of the goals I have in life is to reach a state of mind where I can approach every situation, no matter how difficult, with equanimity. So if something really "bad" happens to me, I will be able to react with mental ripples, not mental tidal waves.

 

It is my opinion that if you have clear goals then the next step is to search for people who

 

1) have achieved those goals, and

 

2) are confident in their ability to transmit or show you the way to experiencing them for yourself.

 

3) are willing to

 

 

For a teacher and practice that are refreshingly bullshit free

and focus on healing and "calm" as well as give

tangible proof consider:

 

Michael Lomax - Stillness-Movement

 

My best to you.

 

Edited May 25, 2009 by mgd

[11:33]

What are the CORE practices of Stillness-Movement?

[mgd]

What are the CORE practices of Stillness-Movement?

 

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=8704&st=0

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showto...taoist+medicine

Edited May 24, 2009 by mgd

[11:33]

mgd,

 

Muchas gracias

[mgd]

mgd,

 

Muchas gracias

 

 

De nada.

 

I'm attending the Canadian workshop right now...one more day to go. More proof this weekend that it works. Miracles improving the quality of life for folks I know and love. Fanfuckingmiracles!!!!!!

 

[11:33]

De nada.

 

I'm attending the Canadian workshop right now...one more day to go. More proof this weekend that it works. Miracles improving the quality of life for folks I know and love. Fanfuckingmiracles!!!!!!

 

 

I'd love to here a overview of what you learned when you get back. I am thinking about going to one of these sometime in the near future.

[contrivedname!]

 

Ha(!), the false dicotomy.

 

Of course no school have all the wisdom.

And it is also incorrect to think that all the schools point to the same place. Some school do, some school do not. Sometime two schools in two different traditions point to the same goal, while you can find traditions where two schools inside the same tradition are actually pointing to different places.

 

 

an excellent point to make. what i was saying by wisdom has no school is that it is essentially "formless" but humans, needing formation, make use of formula to reach it. you are very correct to point out that some schools do and some dont, for example while buddhism and daoism point to a similar form of wisdom, i really dont think that satanism and buddhism do.