Raw meat

[ralis]

Hi ralis,

 

I'm just offering some suggestions, and there are creative ways to find these high quality foods even though they're certainly not as easy to come by as commercial meats, but more accessible than it would seem.

 

Meat is a very dense food, so most people need only relatively small quantities to extract the life energy that's what nutrition is really about. So it's really very cost-effective.

 

Grass-fed meat isn't the same industry as factory farmed meat, and when you buy grass-fed meat you're supporting small farmers. There are all sorts of possible ways to find local sources - going to local farmers' markets is one good way to network. You can often find local co-ops that way. There's a lot of grass roots stuff going on, that you can tap into. Check local listings at www.eatwild.com.

 

Bison is often available even in large grocery stores, and that's generally going to be grass-fed. And there are some good mail order sources - one is www.uswellnessmeats.com.

 

Best,

Karen

 

I know the difference between grass fed and factory. I am including a link to a ranch in Idaho, and I can see from the photos the type of land the cattle are grazing on. This is not a very efficient way to raise protein and this process would not feed many people. In fact, if fossil fuels were eliminated, only around 10% of present day population would be supported.

 

I have no problem with supporting small farmers. However, the entire structure that has been created to feed people is severely inefficient.

 

I have grown weary with seeing well heeled elitists lined up in the local farmers market and Whole Foods buying the latest trendy meats and produce. Most of the reasons as to why we eat what we eat, is usually created by hype, fear and how one was raised.

 

ralis

 

http://www.alderspring.com/

[karen]

Hi ralis,

 

Certainly the structure of food distribution is corrupt, but why not pursue practical solutions on the individual level, such as trying to get locally grown/raised food as much as possible. I don't care if there's a market for trendy foods (and just look at the whole natural food industry for glaring examples), but as individuals we can make more critical choices.

 

-Karen

[ralis]

You might like to see material from the Weston Price Foundation, particularly this on beef, which addresses issues of sustainability. http://www.westonaprice.org/mythstruths/mtbeef.html

 

Here's a key paragraph:

A far more serious threat to humanity is the monoculture of grains and legumes, which tends to deplete the soil and requires the use of artificial fertilizers and pesticides. The educated consumer and the enlightened farmer together can bring about the return of the mixed farm, where cultivation of fruits and vegetables is combined with the raising of livestock and fowl in a manner that is efficient, economical and environmentally friendly. Cattle providing rich manure are the absolute basis for healthy, sustainable farming. On marginal land, wise grass feeding practices can actually improve soil quality and restore pasture land. It is not animal cultivation that leads to hunger and famine but unwise agricultural practices and monopolistic distribution systems.

 

The author of the above quote presents a myopic view at best. There is nothing wrong with growing grains and legumes as long as correct crop rotations occur. It was the introduction of nitrogen fertilizers in the early 1900's that increased yields and therefore encouraged poor farming practices. Therefore, causing soil compaction, decreased numbers of beneficial soil microbes and runoff of fertilizer salts into water supplies.

 

The idea of an educated consumer class with the so called enlightened farmer seems to me a bit unrealistic and idealistic. Monsanto is already making moves to control the entire seed supply on the planet. Monsanto is using political and legal (patented seeds) to control farmers. Farmers have already been sued in court for the illegal use of Monsanto's patented seeds.

 

As far as pasture improvement goes, that would only apply in areas that are not impacted by chaotic environmental conditions i.e, drought, fluctuations in temperature shorter growing seasons and various factors such as erosion.

 

Please, don't try to argue that such techniques as so called Permaculture can fix some of these agricultural problems. I have seen the mess that Permaculturists have left here in Santa Fe with their naive primitive techniques and buzzwords such as sustainability. This is linear thinking at best.

 

The planetary ecosystem is nonlinear and dynamic. Simplistic ideas may even work on a very local scale. The variable with the largest impact is 6.91 billion people.

 

 

ralis

[froggie]

The author of the above quote presents a myopic view at best. There is nothing wrong with growing grains and legumes as long as correct crop rotations occur. It was the introduction of nitrogen fertilizers in the early 1900's that increased yields and therefore encouraged poor farming practices.

<snips>

 

Biodynamic farming is cool. Especially the more detailed sides.

[Ramon25]

So ralis you live in new mexico huh? me to im in rio rancho. Karen what do you think of raw grassfed meats, eggs, butter and raw milk and such in supporting healthy qi? Sense im gonna start soon. Also what do you think is the energetic differnece?

[Tactile]

I also have been interested in this lately, and reading about it stumbled onto this forum: www.rawpaleo.com

 

some good recipes and general discussion

[松永道]

I wont address the issue of beef being a pretty poor choice environmentally speaking.

 

Energetically speaking, beef is has a balanced to warm nature depending on the species and is a very good tonic food. It's especially good for building Jing (the foundation of qi, blood, yang and yin in the body). Because it's so nourishing, it's slow to digest and can cause problems for people with weakened digestion. However, taken in small amounts, raw it's very easy to absorb - especially spiced like beef tartar, Mmmm.

 

I personally experienced the effects once in Czech Republic. Two weeks prior had a pretty serious flu and was still feeling pretty weak. Within the first half hour of eating a dish of tartarski biftek my energy levels had significantly increased and after two hours I was feeling better than new.

 

Where it up to me, beef would only be used for occasional and medical purposes (and perhaps for butter and kefir).

 

...

 

ralis,

 

What are your solutions exactly? And what's the problem with permaculture? I've seen some pretty amazing permaculture gardens - they're mini ecosystems outfitted with complementary groups of plants - how is that linear (especially in comparison to modern monocrops)?

[ralis]

I wont address the issue of beef being a pretty poor choice environmentally speaking.

 

Energetically speaking, beef is has a balanced to warm nature depending on the species and is a very good tonic food. It's especially good for building Jing (the foundation of qi, blood, yang and yin in the body). Because it's so nourishing, it's slow to digest and can cause problems for people with weakened digestion. However, taken in small amounts, raw it's very easy to absorb - especially spiced like beef tartar, Mmmm.

 

I personally experienced the effects once in Czech Republic. Two weeks prior had a pretty serious flu and was still feeling pretty weak. Within the first half hour of eating a dish of tartarski biftek my energy levels had significantly increased and after two hours I was feeling better than new.

 

Where it up to me, beef would only be used for occasional and medical purposes (and perhaps for butter and kefir).

 

...

 

ralis,

 

What are your solutions exactly? And what's the problem with permaculture? I've seen some pretty amazing permaculture gardens - they're mini ecosystems outfitted with complementary groups of plants - how is that linear (especially in comparison to modern monocrops)?

 

 

I have no problem with what you are suggesting for planting mini ecosystems etc. Permaculturists here in Santa Fe have used primitive techniques such as trying to stop water coming through arroyo's with straw bales. LOL! The water wins every time. A friend of mine that is a Permaculturist was given $250,000 to study how to solve a very bad erosion problem along the Santa Fe river. The solution for that problem would be caissons, piles etc. Not straw bales or flimsy ideas that don't work.

 

Linear thinking attempts to use a small toolbox of techniques for every situation. We have serious problems with population growth, climate change, pollution, Monsanto's of the world and myriad other problems that require out of the box thinking. The solutions to our problems require understanding dynamic systems (nonlinear).

 

My profession is Ornamental Horticulture (B.S.) with extensive knowledge of how to make plants thrive in harsh conditions. Also I have extensive knowledge in erosion control techniques that work. I am paid a lot of money to produce real world solutions that work. Every problem is different and must be approached with that aspect in mine. I have built walls on the edge of a ridge to hold back erosion in such a way that there are no cracks in the wall 10 years later. Try that with straw bales and swales as many Permaculturists have tried and failed.

 

I know some people have a problem with grains and legumes being a part of our diets. There seems to be this idea that prehistoric people only ate in a certain way and we should to. Well, if we are evolving, should we not learn to adapt? Is not evolution about adaptation? Why not learn to grow and use grains and legumes in a correct way? If certain crops deplete the soil of nitrogen, then one rotates nitrogen fixers to solve the problem.

 

 

ralis

[Guest paul walter]

Strange how no-one has mentioned the work of Dr. Gabriel Cousens. He advocates a raw vegan diet (includes bee pollen for B12) based on Ayurvedic/Chinese principles and stringent research and application of modern western science. He says 99% of the world's people could live well according to their bodies' nutritional requirements on the raw food vegan diet he advocates! His main thrust is that such a diet supports the best outcome for spiritual and health development in a human when done properly. He's written some pretty impressive books of which you should probably familiarise yourself with 'Conscious Eating' and 'Spiritual Nutrition and the Rainbow Diet' (which deals in depth with the cultivation of Kundalini/Chakra energetics re nutrition/state of mind etc.). He's got a swag of credentials in all sorts of areas that he integrates for optimal effect in his work. I personally find his work to be staggeringly wholistic and difficult to follow to the letter, though it's 'proof' is pretty compelling. He's also co-written a book with David Wagner on Tachyon energy that you may want to look at. There seem to be some strangely myopic views from people who desire quick fix energy cultivation techniques- hope you're not one of them. I understand you feel better eating meat. Paul

[Guest paul walter]

Strange how no-one has mentioned the work of Dr. Gabriel Cousens. He advocates a raw vegan diet (includes bee pollen for B12) based on Ayurvedic/Chinese principles and stringent research and application of modern western science. He says 99% of the world's people could live well according to their bodies' nutritional requirements on the raw food vegan diet he advocates! His main thrust is that such a diet supports the best outcome for spiritual and health development in a human when done properly. He's written some pretty impressive books of which you should probably familiarise yourself with 'Conscious Eating' and 'Spiritual Nutrition and the Rainbow Diet' (which deals in depth with the cultivation of Kundalini/Chakra energetics re nutrition/state of mind etc.). He's got a swag of credentials in all sorts of areas that he integrates for optimal effect in his work. I personally find his work to be staggeringly wholistic and difficult to follow to the letter, though it's 'proof' is pretty compelling. He's also co-written a book with David Wagner on Tachyon energy that you may want to look at. There seem to be some strangely myopic views from people who desire quick fix energy cultivation techniques- hope you're not one of them. I understand you feel better eating meat. Paul

 

 

Forgot to add Paul Pitchford's 'Healing with Wholefoods' who also does the energetics/yin yang/spiritual outcomes food thing. Unfortunately he is also vegan but there is a lot of food for thought and info in this rather large book. There is also a book called 'Food Energetics:the spiritual,emotional,and nutritional power of what we eat' by Steve Gagne which you may come across if you get into this stuff. I find this guy to be pretty ungrounded in his views, too much second-hand info and simplistic assumptions-doesn't seem to be aware of very basic things being done in food research?-not very rigorous for someone in the field since 1972. He does advocate you eat eveything though and that you steer clear of veganism.

[松永道]

Strange how no-one has mentioned the work of Dr. Gabriel Cousens. He advocates a raw vegan diet (includes bee pollen for B12) based on Ayurvedic/Chinese principles and stringent research and application of modern western science. He says 99% of the world's people could live well according to their bodies' nutritional requirements on the raw food vegan diet he advocates! His main thrust is that such a diet supports the best outcome for spiritual and health development in a human when done properly. He's written some pretty impressive books of which you should probably familiarise yourself with 'Conscious Eating' and 'Spiritual Nutrition and the Rainbow Diet' (which deals in depth with the cultivation of Kundalini/Chakra energetics re nutrition/state of mind etc.). He's got a swag of credentials in all sorts of areas that he integrates for optimal effect in his work. I personally find his work to be staggeringly wholistic and difficult to follow to the letter, though it's 'proof' is pretty compelling. He's also co-written a book with David Wagner on Tachyon energy that you may want to look at. There seem to be some strangely myopic views from people who desire quick fix energy cultivation techniques- hope you're not one of them. I understand you feel better eating meat. Paul

 

I like the idea of raw food vegan diets, but I would certainly hesitate to say they would suit anywhere close to 99% of the world population. For one, raw food diets are better suited for warm climates. By both TCM and Ayurvedic logic, raw diets are cooling and not suited for people with already compromised digestion (internal cold).

 

Moreover, raw food is available locally in warm climates. It's ridiculous to ship Durian half way around the world, or even avocados half way across the continent just to get your fatty fruits. Talk about a hefty carbon footprint.

 

Most of all, I think it's ridiculous to claim one type of diet suits everyone, day in and day out. Raw foods are great for hot summers, but terrible for cold winters. Meat is good for some and bad for others. Body type, location, and season should be our greatest teachers in deciding what to eat. What's best for our health can also be best for the environment.

[Guest paul walter]

I like the idea of raw food vegan diets, but I would certainly hesitate to say they would suit anywhere close to 99% of the world population. For one, raw food diets are better suited for warm climates. By both TCM and Ayurvedic logic, raw diets are cooling and not suited for people with already compromised digestion (internal cold).

 

Moreover, raw food is available locally in warm climates. It's ridiculous to ship Durian half way around the world, or even avocados half way across the continent just to get your fatty fruits. Talk about a hefty carbon footprint.

 

Most of all, I think it's ridiculous to claim one type of diet suits everyone, day in and day out. Raw foods are great for hot summers, but terrible for cold winters. Meat is good for some and bad for others. Body type, location, and season should be our greatest teachers in deciding what to eat. What's best for our health can also be best for the environment.

 

 

 

Yes, I see. He also says that people aren't "listening" to what ayurvedic/Chinese dietetics are "actually" saying, which for him is that the thermal properties of food can be balanced by spices/herbs/preparation/combining so it is possible to have raw or primarily raw foods for constitutional types that seem to 'need' meat/animal food and so you don't destroy the digestive fire. Ironically, Cousens advocates the Weston A. Price peoples' metabolic type diet research which everyone keeps quoting everywhere these days in order to eat whatever they want/have been eating (resistance to 'health' food ideas currently in everyones face I imagine, guilt?). . Remember 'raw' means food that

hasn't been cooked to the level where the heat destroys the enzymes so it can include warm foods, dehydrated foods... I'm not raw myself so this isn't my spiel. Like you I am very attracted to the idea so have done a fair bit of looking into it. I have been vegan for 19 years even though my 'type' says I should be medium to high animal protein...? I think all food habits have to do with your relation to the spirit of the life you cultivate which involves the cause/effect relations of everything to do with how the food came to be put in your mouth by your hands (and of course good digestion/assimilation/non heavily-processed food etc). Tried to open up the subject of food consciousness on a Daoismworld (reminds me a lot of Disneyworld for some reason) thread where Mak Tin Si posted how cruel fishing was, then proceeded to go through the minutiae of how and why you can still eat fish but not catch it while elucidating all the karmic in's and out's. It was very amusing to me personally, reminded me of Thomas Aquinas (Summa Theologica).

 

I believe the body can adjust and even change metabolism according to mind set/deep conviction/practices, though don't know how much is possible for us average people. It is common scientific knowledge about the positive effects of the relaxed life/meditation on metabolism/food assimilation. It seems to be a verboten area in 'spiritual' practice on the forums to discuss the possibility of bigu/vegan even vegetarian eating/non-eating as a 'virtue' worth cultivating, at least in the 'west'. Think I have pretty good understanding as to why based on considerable experience, so will not stir the pot any further....

 

All animals eat raw foods and some species eat incredibly restrictive 'diets'. Pluralism is a huge problem for humans in most fields of endeavour so we will need the humility to remember we could be more wrong about our ego assumptions than we could even want to imagine. The relative (wrong?) ideas of choice and perception of who we are are discussed everyday on the forums when it comes to high-fallutin' ideas like the relation between the 'I' and the universe, but it always comes down to opinion/ego when it is food. I know I'm 'wrong' in my food choices but am stuck and continue to try and escape the influence of capitalism in the making of my life decisions. It's hard but we should keep trying to understand ourselves.

 

Hope this doesn't open up the whole debate around raw/cooked/native diets--it's endless in its circularity.

Just thinking out loud on what I perceive to be a tetchy issue with most people.

 

Ramon 25, have a look into Klamath Lake Blue-Green algae if you can. There has been research into it that shows that particular 'food' has real beneficial properties for kundalini consciousness and brain development. Also you may want to go on a proper fast/detox to rid your body/gut of toxins and mucoid plaque so you will be able to assimilate the raw food. There are preparations to make-don't just jump in. Our stomach is more than a holder of food remember. Paul

[松永道]

Yes, I see. He also says that people aren't "listening" to what ayurvedic/Chinese dietetics are "actually" saying, which for him is that the thermal properties of food can be balanced by spices/herbs/preparation/combining so it is possible to have raw or primarily raw foods for constitutional types that seem to 'need' meat/animal food and so you don't destroy the digestive fire. Ironically, Cousens advocates the Weston A. Price peoples' metabolic type diet research which everyone keeps quoting everywhere these days in order to eat whatever they want/have been eating (resistance to 'health' food ideas currently in everyones face I imagine, guilt?). . Remember 'raw' means food that

hasn't been cooked to the level where the heat destroys the enzymes so it can include warm foods, dehydrated foods... I'm not raw myself so this isn't my spiel. Like you I am very attracted to the idea so have done a fair bit of looking into it. I have been vegan for 19 years even though my 'type' says I should be medium to high animal protein...? I think all food habits have to do with your relation to the spirit of the life you cultivate which involves the cause/effect relations of everything to do with how the food came to be put in your mouth by your hands (and of course good digestion/assimilation/non heavily-processed food etc). Tried to open up the subject of food consciousness on a Daoismworld (reminds me a lot of Disneyworld for some reason) thread where Mak Tin Si posted how cruel fishing was, then proceeded to go through the minutiae of how and why you can still eat fish but not catch it while elucidating all the karmic in's and out's. It was very amusing to me personally, reminded me of Thomas Aquinas (Summa Theologica).

 

I believe the body can adjust and even change metabolism according to mind set/deep conviction/practices, though don't know how much is possible for us average people. It is common scientific knowledge about the positive effects of the relaxed life/meditation on metabolism/food assimilation. It seems to be a verboten area in 'spiritual' practice on the forums to discuss the possibility of bigu/vegan even vegetarian eating/non-eating as a 'virtue' worth cultivating, at least in the 'west'. Think I have pretty good understanding as to why based on considerable experience, so will not stir the pot any further....

 

Haha, I heard the same from Tibetan Monks. Tibetan Monks are allowed to eat meat, however, they still aren't allowed to kill it. That karmic debt falls on the poor butcher - bound to be a reincarnated as a worm for eons no doubt!

 

Personally, I've never taken any doctrine as law without testing it myself, especially the association between vegetarianism, good karma, and spiritual elevation. Why is it OK to kill plants, but not OK to kill animals? What about insects?

 

Karma aside though, I have noticed a tangible impact of veganism on my meditation and Taiji. From my experience, one of the greatest spiritual stimulants is a clean digestive tract - a feat much easier to accomplish without simple carbohydrates, meat, or both. But there have been times when I've been run down, and bowl of spiced lamb soup or a plate of raw beef tartar delivered better than any wonder drug.

 

Also, there has research that claims the live enzymes of raw plants aren't even accessible through digestion.

 

So.. who knows? So many of life's good things are good to a point, and past that point, just make things worse. Having the will to stick to a diet or practice while it's good, Yang; but holding on to the flexibility and insight to change if it goes wrong, Yin - here are two other virtues worth cultivating.

[Ramon25]

Well I totally agree, why are plants any less diserving of life than animals? Plants have comple nervous systems and have complex responses to stimuli. If you start killing plants the one's around it will respond and will rember who it was that did the killing. Its quite egotistical to validate a specific type of life because its more like us (animals) and to discount life that is different than us. Also if you want to not kill anything thing then you should die because just the act of being alive kills billions of bacteria, so they dont kill you. that is the reality if you want to live something must die. Vegan diets are not anymore spiritual because they exclude the animal. This whole idea is obsolete. What about the karma from the billions of bacteria? or the gardener? Its more baout how the animal lives (grass fed, free range, pasture, wild) ect than about how it dies as all things are meant to die AND ALL THINGS HAVE THERE PLACE IN NATURE AND DEATH IS A REALITY.

[11:33]

I totally agree with the "plants are alive too!" argument.

 

On another note, I have tried a sattvic diet for one week. I felt absolutely sattvic. Lol. It definitely had a strong effect on my mind. The foods must stimulate peaceful, loving chemicals in the brain. The effect was very very noticable.

[New Dawn Fades]

Now I dont know why but my hands are always cold. I think that could mean a yin constitution? Also I did mantak chia taoist astrology and it saids I have alot of yin energy.

Thanks guys

 

If you are cold you should look up goiterogenic foods, foods that damage your thyroid. Many vegetables are goiterogenic when raw, but much less so when cooked.

Edited May 31, 2009 by New Dawn Fades

[ralis]

Yes, I see. He also says that people aren't "listening" to what ayurvedic/Chinese dietetics are "actually" saying, which for him is that the thermal properties of food can be balanced by spices/herbs/preparation/combining so it is possible to have raw or primarily raw foods for constitutional types that seem to 'need' meat/animal food and so you don't destroy the digestive fire. Ironically, Cousens advocates the Weston A. Price peoples' metabolic type diet research which everyone keeps quoting everywhere these days in order to eat whatever they want/have been eating (resistance to 'health' food ideas currently in everyones face I imagine, guilt?). . Remember 'raw' means food that

hasn't been cooked to the level where the heat destroys the enzymes so it can include warm foods, dehydrated foods... I'm not raw myself so this isn't my spiel. Like you I am very attracted to the idea so have done a fair bit of looking into it. I have been vegan for 19 years even though my 'type' says I should be medium to high animal protein...? I think all food habits have to do with your relation to the spirit of the life you cultivate which involves the cause/effect relations of everything to do with how the food came to be put in your mouth by your hands (and of course good digestion/assimilation/non heavily-processed food etc). Tried to open up the subject of food consciousness on a Daoismworld (reminds me a lot of Disneyworld for some reason) thread where Mak Tin Si posted how cruel fishing was, then proceeded to go through the minutiae of how and why you can still eat fish but not catch it while elucidating all the karmic in's and out's. It was very amusing to me personally, reminded me of Thomas Aquinas (Summa Theologica).

 

I believe the body can adjust and even change metabolism according to mind set/deep conviction/practices, though don't know how much is possible for us average people. It is common scientific knowledge about the positive effects of the relaxed life/meditation on metabolism/food assimilation. It seems to be a verboten area in 'spiritual' practice on the forums to discuss the possibility of bigu/vegan even vegetarian eating/non-eating as a 'virtue' worth cultivating, at least in the 'west'. Think I have pretty good understanding as to why based on considerable experience, so will not stir the pot any further....

 

All animals eat raw foods and some species eat incredibly restrictive 'diets'. Pluralism is a huge problem for humans in most fields of endeavour so we will need the humility to remember we could be more wrong about our ego assumptions than we could even want to imagine. The relative (wrong?) ideas of choice and perception of who we are are discussed everyday on the forums when it comes to high-fallutin' ideas like the relation between the 'I' and the universe, but it always comes down to opinion/ego when it is food. I know I'm 'wrong' in my food choices but am stuck and continue to try and escape the influence of capitalism in the making of my life decisions. It's hard but we should keep trying to understand ourselves.

 

Hope this doesn't open up the whole debate around raw/cooked/native diets--it's endless in its circularity.

Just thinking out loud on what I perceive to be a tetchy issue with most people.

 

Ramon 25, have a look into Klamath Lake Blue-Green algae if you can. There has been research into it that shows that particular 'food' has real beneficial properties for kundalini consciousness and brain development. Also you may want to go on a proper fast/detox to rid your body/gut of toxins and mucoid plaque so you will be able to assimilate the raw food. There are preparations to make-don't just jump in. Our stomach is more than a holder of food remember. Paul

 

What research are you referring to?

 

ralis

[11:33]

If you have cold extremities avoid all 'cold' foods in Chinese Medicine. Raw vegetables are considered cold producing. It is pretty ironic actually, Chinese Medicine says raw vegetables HURT your digestion! (so much for those enzymes ) Raw veggies are fine in moderation for normal folks who have no cold issues, but if it is a notable problem for you, then you should only eat warming foods, which means cooking most of your food.

[Guest paul walter]

What research are you referring to?

 

ralis

 

Sorry for not replying sooner. much of what I looked at on Klamath Lake stuff was in a few frenzied days of 'research' so I can't exactly remember what I read where. Mainly in the research/medical practice conclusions of Dr. Cousens found in his books 'Spiritual Nutrition' and 'Depression free for life'. There are various research articles around on the components of the stuff on the net. It's claimed it's the only thing that can heal the Hypothalamus and has a great effect on the pituatary and pineal glands (I think it's both?). Check the blurb on www.tachyon-energy-products.com about it too. Don't know if this constitutes an acceptable standard of research info-sorry.Paul

[Guest paul walter]

Well I totally agree, why are plants any less diserving of life than animals? Plants have comple nervous systems and have complex responses to stimuli. If you start killing plants the one's around it will respond and will rember who it was that did the killing. Its quite egotistical to validate a specific type of life because its more like us (animals) and to discount life that is different than us. Also if you want to not kill anything thing then you should die because just the act of being alive kills billions of bacteria, so they dont kill you. that is the reality if you want to live something must die. Vegan diets are not anymore spiritual because they exclude the animal. This whole idea is obsolete. What about the karma from the billions of bacteria? or the gardener? Its more baout how the animal lives (grass fed, free range, pasture, wild) ect than about how it dies as all things are meant to die AND ALL THINGS HAVE THERE PLACE IN NATURE AND DEATH IS A REALITY.

 

According to some Indian karmic beliefs it does matter whether you are veg or not. Some of these people claim that you also shouldn't eat/kill plants for the reasons you outlined but that it is a necessary evil until you get to a Prahna eating stage(yum!). And they mean vegan too, not egg and dairy. The issue is only "obsolete" in the 'western' reductionist sense where everything is reduced to the same level because of the similarities between the things e.g. all things have life therefore all things are the same, cancelling. But then maybe that's true since all things are the 'same' in a very real way. Remember, the corollary of your argument is that humans should be treated the same way since they are definately sentient and part of the equation of life and death. Some chi, anyone?

[DaoChild]

Well daniel reids book on tao of health and longevity. He saids how raw meat has alot of enzymes. I know he personally eats raw meat. i researhed it and raw meat is loaded with a bunch of enzymes. Also a website called biology of kundalini states that raw food provides the quickest evolution. red meat is very nurishing to the root chackra hence why most kundalini awakened people need meat in their diet. I think alot of the ungrounded things we see in qi gong and such could be that there is not enough connection to the route. Carbs tend to excite the nervous system and meat diets tend to relax it. I plan on getting into alot of qi gong and energy work so i need good grounding. I am also going to do it in a calorie restricted life extenison way. The jump to raw meat is mine persay because i was a low carber and tend to go with a lot of their ideas.

 

A lot of enzymes or not: our modern human body isn't designed to gnaw on raw meat. Good luck with digesting that and dealing with plenty of upset tummies!

[agharta]

In France and in many other places in the world, raw meat and raw organ meats like liver, etc. are often eaten both in restaurants and at home. Those of use who have done enough world travelling can definitely confirm this. The eating of raw meat and raw organ meats goes back thousands of years in dozens of cultures, including both very traditional, isolated cultures (like Native Americans/Inuit/Masai) and more modernized cultures (like French and Eastern Europeans). There are quite a few Europeans here like Pietro and Smile (who was born and raised in Europe) who can attest to all of this.

 

Most foods that have to be cooked to be digestible are not that healthy. Humans have always been meat eaters, and even today millions eat raw meat and fish everyday, including me. My coworkers think I am strange. I have better health than I did 10 years ago, though. If they keep eating the normal American diet, they will not.

 

Take a look at rawpaleodiet.com and rawpaleoforum.com. If you want to learn about diet (instead of parroting some stuff that you haven't fully researched), those are good places to start. I am also a good place.

 

This forum should be a place to talk about what actually works for health. Those of you who got all your dietary knowledge from a few books need to keep researching. In 10 more years of serious heavy research you might be where I am now. Raw foods are not somehow automatically bad for digestion. My coworkers stink up the bathroom a lot more than I do. LOL

 

I won't entertain vegetarian or pro-cooking propaganda. I simply will leave this thread. If you want to learn about diet I can teach. Guaranteed. Preaching vegetarianism or cooking to me will get me to leave the thread. Guaranteed.

[11:33]

Hey agharta,

 

What do you feel about fermented meats? I'd like to try that. Maybe some thinly sliced fermented beef pieces.

 

Also, what do you think of Sally Fallon's work? And Weston A. Price?

[agharta]

I like fermented meats. Sometimes what I eat should almost be called "rotten meat". My favorite would be fermented liver. The liver blood ferments to a mild alcoholic beverage in the refrigerator after a week or so. It's great.

 

I believe that fermented meat is more digestible than fresh meat, and that eating it increases your ability to digest meat by replenishing the specific gut bacteria that help you digest meat.

 

Sally Fallon is too pro-cooked, too pro-grain, and too pro-dairy. She talks about Dr. Price, though, and his work is absolutely fundamental.

 

Weston Price--now there's someone I'm proud to call a fellow human. He also was too pro-cooked, too pro-grain, and too pro-dairy. However, without him, we don't even HAVE conclusive proof that crooked teeth are a result of dietary deficiency, nor do we have proof that high-quality animal products are very much a part of a healthy human diet. Weston Price, I salute you.

 

I'm not just talking to you, 11:33. If you want really nuanced responses, (instead of me using your posts as a way to preach to the larger audience), PM me. LOL

[11:33]

No problem agharta

 

I want to try raw liver. What is a good way to get good healthy liver?