Relationships and Practice?

[awake]

Hi,

 

I am 17 and a virgin now, mainly (I think) because I didn't feel enough attraction towards women to go and meet them, or I've felt too much fear (possibly as a result of all the bullying I've gone through), or I just wasn't confident enough (again, possibly through bullying), but, I notice that the deeper I get into my practice, the more I feel attracted to women, and the more women are beginning to come up to me, and to give me different kinds of looks, and more frequently.

 

I don't act on these events, partially because I'm still afraid/unconfident, but I've noticed that even through these limited interactions, and the few I've had that have included me talking to women I like, have ended up in disappointment, and I've noticed, through my attachment to outcome. The logical side of me that says I should stay away from loving relationships with women in order to save myself the potential heartache and because even during the relationship, I may be too blinded by love or other carnal desires to properly further my practice of non attachment.

 

Now, my questions are, do the feelings, and other situations that arise between you and your partner aid in your ability to remove attachment from phenomena, enhance it, or do nothing?

 

And, through the feelings that you feel for each other, are you able to further go in (of your own will) to the feeling of your inner body (space)?

 

Lastly, are relationships of such nature limiting in any other way?

 

Thank you for your time.

[Aetherous]

I don't know, but some advice...

 

Even though you're still a virgin and may be for a while, carry a condom with you all the time. Use it when the time comes NO MATTER WHAT.

 

All problems in life come from not using a condom!

 

 

Also, you'll meet better girls when you're older. When you get into the later years of college is when girls start to calm down...a little.

 

When you find one that seems calm and balanced, don't take her for granted! Make sure she stays with you! Keep her smiling and laughing.

 

Then you'll have a good life!

[Creation]

Hi Awake.

 

I have issues with confidence around women as well, due to some scars from the past. Incidentally, I recently found out from some female friends that I give off the "disinterested vibe" , which I imagine is a self-protective thing.

 

These things have to be worked through. All you pain, pleasure, attachment, and aversion has to be let go of on the spiritual path. The questions are how and when. By when I mean timing. There are going to be stages when it is better and worse to work on one issue or another.

 

As for how:

Now, my questions are, do the feelings, and other situations that arise between you and your partner aid in your ability to remove attachment from phenomena, enhance it, or do nothing?

 

And, through the feelings that you feel for each other, are you able to further go in (of your own will) to the feeling of your inner body (space)?

There are ways to do this. As for your first question, all intense experiences/feelings/situations can aid in your ability to remove attachments, if you let them. This comes from having a good foundation in meditation. If you don't have a good foundation, they will likely cause more attachments/aversions. As for your second question, that takes you into the bewildering realm of sexual meditation. There is no end of the garbage out there you can find claiming to be sexual meditation. I know B. K. Frantzis is versed in going "in (of your own will) to the feeling of your inner body (space)" through sexual practice. I don't know how much he is teaching it, but he just came out with an audio course "Chi Gung for the Sexes: Balancing Yin and Yang Relationships" http://www.amazon.com/Chi-Gung-Sexes-Balan...s/dp/1556438257 that deals with these issues.

For the record, I haven't gotten in to this stuff yet. It's on my to-do list, but I don't think the timing is right and I don't think my foundation in meditation is strong enough.

[contrivedname!]

Hi,

 

I am 17 and a virgin now, mainly (I think) because I didn't feel enough attraction towards women to go and meet them, or I've felt too much fear (possibly as a result of all the bullying I've gone through), or I just wasn't confident enough (again, possibly through bullying), but, I notice that the deeper I get into my practice, the more I feel attracted to women, and the more women are beginning to come up to me, and to give me different kinds of looks, and more frequently.

 

I don't act on these events, partially because I'm still afraid/unconfident, but I've noticed that even through these limited interactions, and the few I've had that have included me talking to women I like, have ended up in disappointment, and I've noticed, through my attachment to outcome. The logical side of me that says I should stay away from loving relationships with women in order to save myself the potential heartache and because even during the relationship, I may be too blinded by love or other carnal desires to properly further my practice of non attachment.

 

Now, my questions are, do the feelings, and other situations that arise between you and your partner aid in your ability to remove attachment from phenomena, enhance it, or do nothing?

 

And, through the feelings that you feel for each other, are you able to further go in (of your own will) to the feeling of your inner body (space)?

 

Lastly, are relationships of such nature limiting in any other way?

 

Thank you for your time.

 

if by "deeper into your practice" you mean you are limiting attachment to externals and are thus able to live life with a minimum of greed, hatred, and anger (and all those negatives that come from clinging) as well as beginning to "produce" (limits of language) clear insight and developing compassion, then it is no wonder more women are attracted to you (though some would be turned off by that too, especially at 17 when it seems like a lot of girls go for the macho assholes).

 

there is likely to be heartache in relationships, even non-romantic ones, but attachment is the issue isnt it? i think that there is a fine line between attached love and unattached love. loving a person for their beauty (read inner beauty) and realizing that there may be a time when y'all grow apart and no longer "have a relationship" but you can still love them all the same would seem to me to be unattached love. attached love, like you yourself point out, is attached to the outcome. I love this person. if they ever left me i would just die. why cant they think about my feelings (a sometimes justified complaint, but then the other party probably isnt practicing unattached love). these would seem to be examples of ego-attached love. your ego is attached to the feelings, emotions, and energies you associate with your lover and fears losing these "good vibes" and is therefore selfish and more of a love of self (read ego).

 

your new found confidence could come from the very fact that you dont love people like an asshole, you care about their feelings, are there for them when they need you and dont do shit to hurt them. this is the best quality a lover could have; sex, while fun, is just a carnal urge on some levels.

 

i dont think they are limiting at all, though at least for me, it does seem to be the area where it is most difficult to detach... and i dont think we should forget we are humans

Edited May 25, 2009 by contrivedname!

[三江源]

Hello awake.

 

I sympathise with you in wanting to avoid emotional pain. It is a horrible thing. It isnt disastrous though, or even dangerous. Many say it leads to an educated heart and is part of the alchemy of a wise soul.

 

One thing I do know is that our higher self wants us to experience life fully. So the more you avoid, the higher price you pay. Shut the door on something, and it will haunt your dreams and come in through the window.

 

Being too controlling is a sure fire way to trip yourself up and end up flat on your face.

 

So my sense is that your practices are harmonising your energy: girls are liking you, drawn to you, and things are starting.

 

So it isnt running perfectly from that point to Happily Ever After. Dang! Life doesnt often work that way!

 

Maybe you might like to read The Hero's Journey by Joseph Campbell.

 

It illustrates how we get to become a real, full person, via various trials and tribulations that are archetypal.

 

Love pain, Love disapointment, Love Won and Lost are some of the trials.

 

IMHO removing attachment isnt possible when you are an untried 17year old. IMHO it would be a diversionary tactic to even attempt it.

 

Leting go of attachment to outcomes comes as part of the energy practises you are doing. It is a gradual proccess.

 

Maybe reading or listening to Byron Katie (she's on youtube) will be interesting/helpful to you on the topic of dropping scripts that we unconsciously hold, and tuning in to the inherent perfection in our situation, whatever it is.

 

Good Luck awake.

 

xxx

[Deepbluesea]

Awake,

 

It looks like you have a lot to think about, these are great respsonses. But this one I kinda feel like was one of the best:

 

 

IMHO removing attachment isnt possible when you are an untried 17year old. IMHO it would be a diversionary tactic to even attempt it.

 

 

It is great that you have chosen the path that you are on and starting so early. There are those that grapple with these same difficulties that are two, three, and four times as old as you. And to some extent we all never completely stop dealing with them. Once you begin to "better" yourself (not a very good term) suddenly you find areas to better yourself that you never knew existed. I don't think that there really is a destination, a conclusion, where you can say, "I'm done, I'm where I want to be." Or if you can say those things, you are probably off the path.

 

This, of course, is all an attachment of another sort: the attachment of "walking the right path" or whatever you want to call it.

 

This may not be very helpful but I really got the feeling in your message that you were trying very hard for "no attachment." I think that you also have to be careful that you don't get attached to this attempt at no attachment. Kind of like the happiness and a butterfly parable: as long as you try and try to catch the butterfly you can't but if you chill your ass out and settle down and just sit quietly, it just might come and sit on you shoulder.

 

It sounds to me like things are going pretty well for you. Do you really need to "do" anything? The response is good, so continue, go with the flow, you might be surprised what will happen on its own. I know I always am.

 

Also don't ignore Scotty's advice. Keep a condom hidden in you wallet, your car, or where ever (or multiples) and make sure they don't expire (heat will deteriorate them over time).

 

Good luck!

[Pranaman]

Before going into the relationship I'm in now. I was subconsciously avoiding a relationship. Probably for the same reason you are. As it turns out, it takes a great amount of presence to maintain your awareness in a relationship that you are emotional involved in. Working on this factor turns the relationship into a spiritual practice in itself.

 

and by the way, you're current attitude + your energy could also be what's bringing girls to you. As Groucho Marx said, "Act like a woman can't join your club, and she'll do anything to get in." (Source: Tao of Steve)

Edited May 25, 2009 by Pranaman

[awake]

I've realized I'm very impacted in my attraction by their level of what I perceive as physical beauty.

 

This characteristic in and of itself is indicative of attachment..

 

As for remove attachment to removing attachment, yes, I do not go "must remove identification with thought," but if thoughts do come up, I remind myself to notice the underlyingness from which they came and pay them no mind after they have come.