retention makes you gay

[findley]

Does anybody else have a problem with homoerotic fantasies whenever you practice retention?

 

I do. I said it. I admit it.

 

I'm not gay and I don't want to be gay. This really really sucks. So whenever it happens I just give in and release.

 

I hate this so much. someone please help me with this.

[Aetherous]

Um, maybe you are actually gay...

 

Personally I am always attracted to women. It's the natural urge. It's what makes me straight.

 

If your natural urge is for men, then you are at least bisexual.

[CarsonZi]

Labels, labels, labels.....Hahahaha.

 

Love,

Carson

[三江源]

findley, hi.

 

It depends. Sometimes women fantasise about lesbian sex because they are in need of nurturing and communion from/with their inner feminine.

 

Sexual fantasies dont have to be taken literally, just sayin'...

[Spiritual_Aspirant]

Just do whatever works for you. It's no one's business but yours.

[Trunk]

My experience is that retention generally hasn't aided in my clarity. During natural peaks in my spiritual practice, I simply have less sexual activity - and the unaroused practices assist along that line. Retained jing has a heavy spin on it that is not easy to clarify.

Whether this homo-erotic-when-practicing-retention tendency is

- not natural to you, a disorder of your natural tendency brought about by some excess from retention, or

- it's illuminating some aspect of your nature that you haven't integrated yet, or

- who knows what, things are often complex and unknown...

.. any which way, I'd say to go easy on the retention... it lends a high rev that most men (I'd guess) are not really suited for - and can promote sexual-behavioral issues in the guise of spiritual practice. Whatever the complex makeup of each of our natural orientations, harmony and clarity help. More helpful towards that (usually, I think) is clarifying your nature through other, more steady, practices. Sitting, standing, chanting, silent, whatever lower center unaroused practices ... Take your pick from whichever classic methods.

 

cheers,

Trunk

Edited May 25, 2009 by Trunk

[mantis]

Does anybody else have a problem with homoerotic fantasies whenever you practice retention?

 

I do. I said it. I admit it.

 

I'm not gay and I don't want to be gay. This really really sucks. So whenever it happens I just give in and release.

 

I hate this so much. someone please help me with this.

 

same thing happens to me, too; and nah, it's not like these urges have always been there, they started right around when i started practicing retention.

 

edit: and i guess it's cool if you've always had these urges, felt weird around men etc. etc. but this has not been the case with me or findley (i'm assuming). now that i don't practice retention they urges are farrrrrr less and i'm feeling back to normal. hopefully they go away completely with time.

Edited May 25, 2009 by mantis

[hagar]

There's nothing to worry about.

 

And nothing to retain. I second Trunk here.

 

Actually, better to forget the whole energy paradigm all together.

 

Just drop it and see what happens.

 

h

Edited May 25, 2009 by hagar

[11:33]

Just speculation, but it is possible these practices are messing up your internal balance and creating these urges that formerly weren't there. Who taught you the methods? When in doubt ask your teacher

 

All the Best

[WhiteTiger]

Labels, labels, labels.....Hahahaha.

 

Love,

Carson

 

Very nicely said!

 

It is important to drop the labels and the meanings (in your mind) attached to them. (Although I wouldn't change your principles just because different sensations happen)

 

findley, hi.

 

It depends. Sometimes women fantasise about lesbian sex because they are in need of nurturing and communion from/with their inner feminine.

 

Sexual fantasies dont have to be taken literally, just sayin'...

 

Talking about labels (if we aren't dropping them)

Lesbain's = more acceptable socially

Homosexuals = Less Socially acceptable

Although a lot has changed since since I was a toddler.

 

A very nice close girl whom was bisexual whom was interested in me when I was 18 explained to me, females just happen to satisfy me better than males do. I still don't get how this is related to homosexuals. If a man feels they can be satisfied better from another male than for all darn sakes go do it. (I am implying I personally don't see how this is possible although I'm not claiming this couldn't be true for others)

 

If you don't like the tenancies and/or can't deal with them properly THIS SPECIFIC RETENTION PRACTICE IS JUST NOT FOR YOU than I suggest you stop this one all together.

 

Just speculation, but it is possible these practices are messing up your internal balance and creating these urges that formerly weren't there. Who taught you the methods? When in doubt ask your teacher

 

All the Best

 

wow, your so good at the right speech.

 

Directly went to the problem.

[Fire Dragon]

Hello

 

 

I have had the same feeling during my 100 days of retention practises. Many wiered things happen during this practises. One of them have been an atraction towars men a few times. First time I was in a chooked and amased. How to deal with my life if I am bisexual. To think about this was wiered and a bit frightening.

 

I read later in one of my kundalini yoga books that this is quite normal and that it doesn't imply that you are bisexual or more rightly even though this practises can let you feel gay ,guy?, feelings it doesn't necessarily mean that you come into contact with a part of yourself that is guy! There is another explanation.

 

During this kind of practises you open up to big aspects of your spiritual self. One of the efects is that your higher self is not man or woman, but is androugynous. Coming into contact with this androugynous aspect of your higher self can let you be able to feel feelings that is womanish even though you are a man. This is not the same thing as being a guy, even though for some persons the feelings that arises does mean that they realy are bisexual that is not the case for most of you during retention. If you not have been aware of this kind of feelings before it just imply that you have a contact with the androugynous part of your higher self, which is a part of a pesonal developing procsess similar to what you migth be able to do with for instance Jungian psychogy during a long time ower several years. Duriing retention such processes will start much sooner though, but I think there still is much to intergrate and absolutely much to ballance if you do retention.

 

But still going back to my own experience. When I once was atracted to a man I realy liked it! It was a hell of a possibility to realy understund what a woman could find atracting in a man. What an delicate experience. And on the other hand I can't realy see what there is to be afraid of. The practise in it self will not make you gay. The practise will just make you more atractive to both men and woman, and what an opportunity to invetigate a bit deeper into your own sexuality and spirituality! For me was the atraction towards the man an extremely nice experience beacase it never have happened to me before and in that sence was unique. And why not enjoy it while it happen, in the same way as you I'm shore is enjoying a beatiful woman! If the atraction is there it is there to be enjoyed. And I say this and still not label me as bisexual! I just want to enjoy things happening to me.

 

Think about it if you where atracted to a woman, but did not want it to be there. Why not? If you are atracted to a man but not want it to be there, why not? Are you afraid of yourself? No it is a better way to be in the TAO and in the MYSTERY of the androgynous state, that symbolise you as a higher being a developed full self being.

 

 

F D

[11:33]

Oh one more thing, which is not something I am 100% sure on, but I have heard from my qigong Sifu that in traditional Taoist understanding homosexuality was considered an imbalance (health-wise), and not natural. Now, I know that isn't something our liberal-minded modern attitudes are supposed to agree with, but if you're going to accept some parts of Taoism, one might AT LEAST consider the other parts.

 

All the Best

Edited May 25, 2009 by 11:33

[Pranaman]

I have similar issues but I see it as more of a homophobia. It's just your mind man. It is all in your head. I'm reminded daily that I love women by the feeling of chemicals running through my body when I am enthralled by the figure of woman, damn do I love a nice ass. But yet, my mind will, almost daily as well (it comes and goes in cycles, some weeks it's there some weeks its not) try to challenge this. I've even tried to entertain the idea of me being gay, looking at guys, etc... But it just doesn't work, because it's all in my mind and not in my body.

 

I repeat, it is your ego and what Eckhart Tolle calls your "Pain Body". The part of you that wants suffering.

[11:33]

I've even tried to entertain the idea of me being gay, looking at guys, etc... But it just doesn't work, because it's all in my mind and not in my body.

 

Hey Pranaman,

 

I feel what you're saying. That is one experience, but if he is experiencing legitimate physical feelings of unattraction to women and genuine sexual attraction to men, that's something different altogether!

Edited May 25, 2009 by 11:33

[mantis]

I have similar issues but I see it as more of a homophobia. It's just your mind man. It is all in your head. I'm reminded daily that I love women by the feeling of chemicals running through my body when I am enthralled by the figure of woman, damn do I love a nice ass. But yet, my mind will, almost daily as well (it comes and goes in cycles, some weeks it's there some weeks its not) try to challenge this. I've even tried to entertain the idea of me being gay, looking at guys, etc... But it just doesn't work, because it's all in my mind and not in my body.

 

I repeat, it is your ego and what Eckhart Tolle calls your "Pain Body". The part of you that wants suffering.

 

this is exactly it, i've thought about it before and it isn't for me at all. the fact so many people are having these experiences though makes me think it is just an imbalance but then arises the problem of how to take care of it

 

[Aetherous]

Wow there are a lot of these types of experiences, I guess!

 

My own opinion is that if you're naturally feeling attracted to someone, then that determines your sexual preference. It's not a choice that you make!

 

Of course labels aren't useful...we are complex creatures. Someone might be attracted to one guy, and be attracted mostly to women...are they bisexual? Who knows...too complicated.

 

A large part of our society still despises homosexuality. So it can be scary to acknowledge that you have some homosexual tendencies. For many, it means a huge loss of respect from close family and friends...not good!

 

I don't think denial is healthy. At least if you can admit to yourself that these things are within you, that's good. And you have the freedom to choose who you get involved with...so not a big deal to acknowledge that you have some tendencies. It won't change your life, except make you more honest and open.

 

"The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself."

-FDR

 

[WhiteTiger]

Wow there are a lot of these types of experiences, I guess!

 

My own opinion is that if you're naturally feeling attracted to someone, then that determines your sexual preference. It's not a choice that you make!

 

Of course labels aren't useful...we are complex creatures. Someone might be attracted to one guy, and be attracted mostly to women...are they bisexual? Who knows...too complicated.

 

A large part of our society still despises homosexuality. So it can be scary to acknowledge that you have some homosexual tendencies. For many, it means a huge loss of respect from close family and friends...not good!

 

I don't think denial is healthy. At least if you can admit to yourself that these things are within you, that's good. And you have the freedom to choose who you get involved with...so not a big deal to acknowledge that you have some tendencies. It won't change your life, except make you more honest and open.

 

"The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself."

-FDR

 

 

OMG!

 

Go study some psychology than come back with that attitude.

 

I am getting very frustrated at how insightful your being... little wisdom your giving AND how little knowledge you actually have on the subject.

[mantis]

Wow there are a lot of these types of experiences, I guess!

 

My own opinion is that if you're naturally feeling attracted to someone, then that determines your sexual preference. It's not a choice that you make!

 

Of course labels aren't useful...we are complex creatures. Someone might be attracted to one guy, and be attracted mostly to women...are they bisexual? Who knows...too complicated.

 

A large part of our society still despises homosexuality. So it can be scary to acknowledge that you have some homosexual tendencies. For many, it means a huge loss of respect from close family and friends...not good!

 

I don't think denial is healthy. At least if you can admit to yourself that these things are within you, that's good. And you have the freedom to choose who you get involved with...so not a big deal to acknowledge that you have some tendencies. It won't change your life, except make you more honest and open.

 

"The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself."

-FDR

 

 

i agree with some parts of your post. if you've had these feelings or attraction to men your entire life (and you actually want to be with men) then hey, live it up. the difference with me (and the others on this forum, apparently) is that these urges started right when we began practicing retention and are now starting to taper off that i stopped, which makes me believe there is a direct correlation.

[Aetherous]

White Tiger,

 

What do you disagree with and why?

 

I was 1/4 of the way through a psych degree, then switched majors, so I know a little...

 

Mantis,

 

It could just be that you have more sexual energy so some natural tendencies are finally showing themselves, whereas previously those things were kept hidden due to constantly releasing the energy. Just a guess.

[WhiteTiger]

White Tiger,

 

What do you disagree with and why?

 

I was 1/4 of the way through a psych degree, then switched majors, so I know a little...

 

Oh yeah what field were you interested in practicing your psych degree?

[Pranaman]

Oh one more thing, which is not something I am 100% sure on, but I have heard from my qigong Sifu that in traditional Taoist understanding homosexuality was considered an imbalance (health-wise), and not natural. Now, I know that isn't something our liberal-minded modern attitudes are supposed to agree with, but if you're going to accept some parts of Taoism, one might AT LEAST consider the other parts.

 

All the Best

 

honestly, my issue becomes more prevalent when I perpetuate my addiction to porno. Less porno = less gayness. (thought the smiley would be funny) anyway, I think it is an imbalance because I can remember that during a period of time when my mind was trying to attack my sexuality, I went to my Yichuan class. After standing, calisthenics, Yichuan, and then taiji... I left class and noticed that my mind wouldn't even remember what my problem was, and even when it would try to do it's old habit again, sometimes I could control it and sometimes it couldn't surface, but it definitely always carried less energy with it. This made things incredibly easier, and still has a major effect on this issue for me. Yichuan cures my imbalance when I'm not watching porn.

Next is remaining present while my body has the urge. The key to all sorts of things. Hope this helps.

[Aetherous]

White Tiger,

 

Just general.

 

Sorry if I offended you somehow with what I said...

Edited May 25, 2009 by Scotty

[findley]

hey, cat

 

Thanks trunk and hagar; though, I think it is important to point out that I am not really practicing retention to any extent to which I could possibly be over-doing it.

I secretly wish there really was 'nothing to retain', but unmistakenly, the drop unto the lower-soul from the higher-soul after release is so shitty and profound, that I would be a fool to keep suggesting to myself that retention may not be necessary. truly, the fertile energy of our sexuality is the medium by which the body may 'tap into' and 'receive' the subtle bliss 'energy' that comes hand-in-hand with the prominance of the primal consciousness.

 

Fire Dragon, thank you for your post. I do also suspect that perhaps it is a just another aspect of my being as a whole; I understand perfectly that the masterful sage, in harmony, just may be androgenous.

 

--

 

One interesting note I would like to make, are that the fantasies are only ...uhm... indulged in as just that: fantasy. No actual physical attraction to another male has ever overcome my sense of being. This is an important note to make, especially in light of potential psychological diagnoses.

 

 

thank you guys for chatting =)

[WhiteTiger]

White Tiger,

 

Just general.

 

Sorry if I offended you somehow with what I said...

 

You know, its probably mostly my fault like 90+%... first thing I allowed it to bother me... second thing I said something about it (not even close to using rightful speech).

 

So I forgive... and I wouldn't worry about it.

[Ramon25]

hey man its not a big deal and is actually a good thing. Its the blending of the male and female energies in the body and mind. Its not something to freak out about. Its not about being gay or str8 its simply intergration, relax. Women do not release there (ejaculation) so if you are not either you are tapping into that female force that female archetype and blending two polarities, embrace your feminine side. It does not mean be gay as for a man thats probably not good for your energetic system, to much yang vs yang going on. I once read on a TCM site that if you put two differnet sperm togther they will fight for supremecy. For women its not bad yin and yin. In my opinion it shows progress so again relax. The whole point is the yin and yang intergaion!