Taoist Diets / Chinese Medicine Diets / Food Therapy

[11:33]

Hi,

 

I'd like to discuss Taoist diets, and your thoughts or experiences with them. In my studies of Chinese Medicine I've learned a lot of fascinating stuff about how food is like medicine, each food affects specific organs in the body. So if you have particular imbalances, then particular foods will help harmonize them. I've also found it in the reverse: I will naturally prefer foods that balance the particular imbalances I might have. Fascinating.

 

One good book about this stuff is: Healing With Whole Foods, but it is reallllly vegetarian oriented, and many Taoists wouldn't agree with that, but otherwise there is tons of good information, and you can just add meat to the mix if you want.

 

Some books I've heard are good, but haven't gotten to read yet are the books by Daverick Leggett such as Recipes For Self-Healing

 

What are your thoughts about traditional Taoist diets, and also Taoist food therapy (using particular foods to correct imbalances)?

 

All the Best

Edited May 25, 2009 by 11:33

[agharta]

Chinese food theory is too pro-rice, pro-grain, pro-carb, pro-cooking, and, in some cases, too pro-vegetarian. There are some good ideas, though. A lot of the fads (like wolfberries) are nonsense.

[Dainin]

Most traditional Asian medicines (Ayurveda, Tibb, etc as well as TCM) use food therapy. Also herbalism can be intertwined with food therapy in the form of seasonings. I think that in our modern societies, the majority of people's systems (myself included!) are so loaded with toxic chemicals, factory foods, synthetic drugs, and other crap, that the health benefits of the traditional dietary regimines would be greatly diminished in comparison with persons living in the pre-1900s. In my opinion, these systems would be more effective today if preceded by a period of cleansing and detoxification, creating a cleaner field for them to work in. Daniel Reid's book "Tao of Detox" talks about some of this. Also, raw foods and veganism definitely appear to have a therapeutic effect, especially in obesity and Syndrome X related disorders. I don't know if they are as good over the long haul. I've heard that author of the first book you mentioned is not a very healthy-looking person.

[WhiteTiger]

Most traditional Asian medicines (Ayurveda, Tibb, etc as well as TCM) use food therapy. Also herbalism can be intertwined with food therapy in the form of seasonings. I think that in our modern societies, the majority of people's systems (myself included!) are so loaded with toxic chemicals, factory foods, synthetic drugs, and other crap, that the health benefits of the traditional dietary regimines would be greatly diminished in comparison with persons living in the pre-1900s. In my opinion, these systems would be more effective today if preceded by a period of cleansing and detoxification, creating a cleaner field for them to work in. Daniel Reid's book "Tao of Detox" talks about some of this. Also, raw foods and veganism definitely appear to have a therapeutic effect, especially in obesity and Syndrome X related disorders. I don't know if they are as good over the long haul. I've heard that author of the first book you mentioned is not a very healthy-looking person.

 

Whats a Healthy looking person supposed to look like and weather or not the person actually practices what he knows. As long as one time in his life he practiced what he knew then I personally see really little to no difference.

[soundhunter]

There's a picture of him at the bottom of this page on his site and here

 

I went to a TCM doc for serious sinus issues, and with a combo of herbs, accupuncture and diet therapy he cleared up something that caused me more pain than childbirth and that western medicine had been useless to treat.

 

The diet he put me on he called the clear bland diet, no spices, no major flavors, no garlic/onions/chili/pepper/curry, lots of bland grains and veggies, small bits of meat if desired but very little, broths, teas. Importantly everything was to be warm, nothing cold.

 

since then I've noticed if I consume anything cold, my problem sinus area acts up, so I don't consume much cold foods/drinks anymore unless I'm willing to suffer slightly.

 

he told me he thought I should make that diet the basic diet i follow for life, but I found it depressingly boring and I love eating too much to stick to it, though I felt great when I was on it. I became aware of the energy inmy hands when i was on that diet, I could feel liveliness in my fingers and hands, something I've only felt when I was true to that diet over a couple of weeks.

Edited May 27, 2009 by soundhunter

[Epicurious]

There's a picture of him at the bottom of this page on his site and here

 

I went to a TCM doc for serious sinus issues, and with a combo of herbs, accupuncture and diet therapy he cleared up something that caused me more pain than childbirth and that western medicine had been useless to treat.

 

The diet he put me on he called the clear bland diet, no spices, no major flavors, no garlic/onions/chili/pepper/curry, lots of bland grains and veggies, small bits of meat if desired but very little, broths, teas. Importantly everything was to be warm, nothing cold.

 

since then I've noticed if I consume anything cold, my problem sinus area acts up, so I don't consume much cold foods/drinks anymore unless I'm willing to suffer slightly.

 

he told me he thought I should make that diet the basic diet i follow for life, but I found it depressingly boring and I love eating too much to stick to it, though I felt great when I was on it. I became aware of the energy inmy hands when i was on that diet, I could feel liveliness in my fingers and hands, something I've only felt when I was true to that diet over a couple of weeks.

 

sall in the circulatin...cold stuff screws it up...all health comes down to yer circulatin...have what yer want but dont be piggin out all the time...lots a green leafy vegeys...darker the better...whfoods.org have some fine recipes...chili...mmm...eat yer vegeys an ya wont be cravin the bad shit...ya could try the hay diet n not mix yer protein n carbs...some folks swear by it...remember...its all in the circulatin..

[Ramon25]

Veganism the the way many people practice is really unhealthy. With few supplements like B12 and s very intelligent approach its possible, but a raw food vegan is a pretty hard diet to be healthy on. Also Original toaist diets were not like the diets promoted by todays chinese medicine, they were much smarter than that.

[11:33]

Veganism the the way many people practice is really unhealthy. With few supplements like B12 and s very intelligent approach its possible, but a raw food vegan is a pretty hard diet to be healthy on. Also Original toaist diets were not like the diets promoted by todays chinese medicine, they were much smarter than that.

 

Yeah. I don't follow Healing With Whole Foods, but you can get a ton out of it, and then just eat whatever animal products you want to along with it. Then take what works for you and leave the rest.

 

What kinds of diets would you consider more traditional Taoist diets? Any books or links on it?

[Ramon25]

Seasonal local eating, avoiding grains, eating wild game/free range animals, fruits and vegtables, calorie restriction with optimal nutrition, They did not avoid fat, Supplemented diet with herbs and longevity formulas that contained both herbs and animal products.

[WhiteTiger]

Seasonal local eating, avoiding grains, eating wild game/free range animals, fruits and vegtables, calorie restriction with optimal nutrition, They did not avoid fat, Supplemented diet with herbs and longevity formulas that contained both herbs and animal products.

 

Well this is pretty detailed... (not to say your incorrect about some, or even lots of Taoists following this diet plan)

 

Although would be helpful if you would be able to reference were you get this information... from a specific book, from your own practices with Taoists... or if your a Taoist saying your a Taoist following this.

 

I only ask because my mere understanding is slightly different. Of course I was not formally taught by Taoists, nor have I been personally enriched in the living culture of Taoist practices in the mountains living the life.

They did not avoid fat, Supplemented diet with herbs and longevity formulas that contained both herbs and animal products.

[Ramon25]

Well some of the stuff came from daniel reid but not all of it. Oh I forgot to mention that they also practiced food combining. Some of it came form (story's) of people who have lived very very long (legends) but you analyze the story's and you can see they are daoist, then you look at the advice given. I think these legends are ways of transmitting info. You see it all over daoist stuff that they did not eat alot. So there is tha calorie restriction. They of course supplemented, you can find an old daosit remedy called (spring wine) on google. They did avoid grains. I dont know where but i have seen references where it was balieved that an animal living in the wild eating berries, roots and leaves were more nourishing that livestock and that (earth chickens) -wild- were better than home grown. I dont follow all these rules just a few I was just posting what I have gathered in an informal way across time.

[froggie]

I just want to contribute that hemp seeds are a wonderful food, for use in cooking, various snacks, hempseed milk (a super alternative to soy milk), hemp protein powder, hempseed oil, and so on.

[WhiteTiger]

hempseed milk

 

Is that a new one or just a good oldie one.

 

me thinks i'm gunna try it.

[froggie]

 

http://www.happyplanet.com.au/shop/product...hp?ProductID=96

 

http://images.google.nl/images?hl=nl&u...=18&ndsp=18

 

hempseed cucumber soup

 

zucchini hempseed latkes

 

hemp seed nut butter

[2]

Edited May 28, 2009 by froggie

[evZENy]

True about hemp!

Just to add Quinoa and to a lesser extend - Amaranth.

There is a reason why the Native Nations of Central and South America worshiped them.

As for us vegetarians - good balanced source of protein (as is hemp).

So does soy, but one has to be careful with it...

 

We don't get enough Vitamin B12 mainly because everything is so clean these days!

It is not part of the animal products, but contamination in them.

In the same way, many people still don't realize thet milk does not have lots of Vitamin D - the US dairy industry adds it in :-)

[froggie]

yes, quinoa is a grain that has all the essential amino acids in it, not like some other grains.

and also, the acerola cherry is a true vitamin C bomb, if you eat just 1 acerola cherry a day you will probably never have any less that the full RDA (although the RDA is probably on the very low side!). only 1 though, that's tiny .....

 

i think seaweed has great amounts of B12 if i am not mistaken

Edited June 2, 2009 by froggie

[evZENy]

i think seaweed has great amounts of B12 if i am not mistaken

 

True on the acerola (tried them in Brazil), wrong on B12.

I am eating lots of seaweeds (crazy on Japanese stuff :-), but that's actually a problem. There is a compound that mimicks close B12 and uses the same receptors. Which means that the vitamin competes with it and is even less adsorbed :-(.

But I just got some chlorella before going to bed :-)

Edited June 3, 2009 by evZENy

[松永道]

We have pretty little information on ancient diet. "Bigu" literally translated as not eating grain generally meant a practice not a diet. If you ask a modern Daoist about Bigu they view it as a type of fasting where, for a period of time, you eat almost nothing, do specific practices, etc. Not just not eating grains.

 

Another side meaning of Bigu had to do with removing oneself from society. Grain, especially polished white rice, was the food of ancient Chinese society. It was processed, stored, and otherwise a symbol of man's way as opposed to the way of nature. In this sense, Bigu was a way of cutting your community ties.

 

Now personally, I find the modern "no carb" diet a compelling revival of the Bigu concept. I personally tried it for two months, eating plenty of complex carbs in form of vegetables and beans and also plenty of meat. After a rough first two weeks, my body adjusted to the slow burn and I felt lighter, stronger, and more energetic than ever. It's also effective for estranging you from society! So many social interactions revolve around eating. At the time I wasn't ready to cook every meal alone, too young, too soon.

 

Following said diet heavily combats a disease pattern Chinese medicine calls dampness. Dampness, interpreted through a western lens often means a bacterial or fungal overgrowth in the digestive track - the most famous is candida. "Sweet flavor enters the Spleen Network" The Spleen network covers many digestive functions, most notably pancreatic function. Too much sweet flavor harms the Spleen network. Diabetes is one pathological development of too much sweet flavor, another is Candida. In the case of Candida and other dampness related problems, too much sweet flavor harms the Spleen, the Spleen looses it's ability to properly transform incoming food into Blood and Qi. The untransformed food accumulates in the Intestines and transforms into Dampness. Accumulating Dampness further hinders proper transformation of food into Blood and Qi and so further Dampness accumulates...

 

Now in terms of western medicine, Candida thrives on the anaerobic metabolism of sugar. It even releases a signal molecules into our bodies that make us crave sugar. TCM recognizes that people with compromised Spleen function crave Sweet flavors. We keep eating sweets, Candida thrives, and the process continues. Candida hacks into our cravings to continue its proliferation!

 

Dampness, is associated with grogginess, heaviness, and otherwise unclear feelings. It can accumulate in the lungs and sinuses causing asthma, coughing and/or sinus pressure. Over time it can get cooked into phlegm and further compromise the mind and sensory orifices.

 

Indeed, Dampness can been seen as a direct competitor against enlightenment. It makes you heavy, not light; dull and dirty, not clear and clean. Following a diet that eliminates Dampness, like not eating simple carbs and starches, may be one of the best things we can do to complement a serious spiritual practice.

[松永道]

Oh, I almost forgot,

 

The reason ancient Daoists chose to go through "Bigu" was to defeat the three Chong. Chong means worm or parasite. The Chinese simplified character is 虫, the traditional variant is three of the simplified put together 蟲.

 

Why three?

 

Because there are three Chong in the body which basically correspond to the three Dan Tian. The upper Chong feeds on excessive thinking. The lower Chong feeds on excessive sex. The middle Chong feeds on excessive eating.

 

Bigu is an effort to kill these Chong.

[11:33]

I find in my own diet that there is a huge HUGE difference between refined carbohydrates and whole grains (preferably pre-soaked before cooking for 1-3 days). Where white rice, bread, etc can cause pancreatic overload, whole grains make me feel amazing. It's like night and day. I don't know about going no grain... I've never tried it, but if you are going to eat carbs you really should try the whole foods version of them, whole grains. When you soak them for 1-3 days the water interacts with the seed to begin its process of sprouting, which unlocks many nutrients that weren't able to be digested before (the seed won't sprout though in that time, the process merely begins) I suggest Nourishing Traditions or googling about Sally Fallon or Weston A. Price to find out more about these kinds of things.

 

Remember, if you live like normal people, you're going to end up like normal people do. Really sickly.

 

All the Best,

Alex

[froggie]

Hm, i had to think for a little bit, but now it came to me. I believe Irish moss has B12 and also fermented things such as miso and natto and tempe and yoghurt and so on.

[evZENy]

Hm, i had to think for a little bit, but now it came to me. I believe Irish moss has B12 and also fermented things such as miso and natto and tempe and yoghurt and so on.

 

What you are listing are fermented foods. Where the B12 is formed by the cultures causing the fermentation.

However, even this seems to not always be the case as some of the references in the first link (7, 8) show :-(

 

http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/b12.htm

http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/plant

 

So some yeasts. Maybe....

[11:33]

I've heard that only the fermented foods that use the old-fashioned methods will have significant B12, many of the more modern facilities used to ferment those foods for some reason or other aren't going to produce as much or any B12. If you're concerned I'd google it. I'm not vegan so I never concerned myself enough to remember the details.

 

All the Best

[evZENy]

I've heard that only the fermented foods that use the old-fashioned methods will have significant B12,

 

True. The reason being that things were not so sterile.

Some claim that walking barefeet in the dirt gives you some B12 as well.

I do it when I work in my garden. And don't go crazy on washing my vegetables which I grow all natural :-)

Tested B12 few months ago - kind of low, but still there :-)

[gendao]