Taoist Diets / Chinese Medicine Diets / Food Therapy

[Ramon25]

The vitamin B-12 in nato tempeh miso ect and many other plant sources are actually analogs of the vitamin. They actually interfere with the real vitamin and increas ethe need for it. I would not play around with b-12, the deficiancy can be like dementia, only reversable but still thats not cool. low b-12 alos gives high homocystiene levels not ood for a few things. Can also increase the risk of cancer. There is no way we were getting the amount we needed by being in the dirt, we ate animals and that indisputable. If you want to be a vegan simply supplement, why not? Just make sure its methylcobalamin and its sublingual tablets, those are the best and most easily assimalated. Because b-12 is hard to assimilate in the first place and there are certaian co factors in "meat" that help it along. Being a vegan is unnatural but that is cool as todays world is not really that natural and its better for the enviornment so if you are smart and supplement well "especially minerals,cofactors and specific amino acids" aswell as include certain foods then you can be healthy, just dont think that avoiding meat automatically makes you healthy because it does not.

[evZENy]

The vitamin B-12 in nato tempeh miso ect and many other plant sources are actually analogs of the vitamin.

Absolutely right - I already pointed that and the links I posted say the same.

I do of course take B12 supplement.

Even non-vegetarians should.

Edited June 3, 2009 by evZENy

[Guest paul walter]

Absolutely right - I already pointed that and the links I posted say the same.

I do of course take B12 supplement.

Even non-vegetarians should.

 

 

It's estimated 70% of vegos are b12 deficient within 10 years. BUT it's also estimated 50% of meat eaters are b12 deficient too. Heat destroys b12.

[11:33]

It's estimated 70% of vegos are b12 deficient within 10 years. BUT it's also estimated 50% of meat eaters are b12 deficient too. Heat destroys b12.

Interesting... So what are good ways for non-vegos to get their B12?

[Guest paul walter]

Interesting... So what are good ways for non-vegos to get their B12?

 

Thought I would extend my response to your question since b12 is such a contencious issue.

 

B12 intake has , like protein, been the focus of a fear based information campaign based on a 'worst case' scenario over the years, I imagine because of dietary ignorance in regard to veg diets but also because the results of insufficient b12 can be serious, even life threatening-and it DOES happen. b12 is a tricky one in terms of research findings. You need a very small amount of it, it can be stored in the body for years (some estimate many years), some say it is virtually impossible to be b12 deficient (even if you are vegan), some say it is inevitable that a vegan will be. findings from research are often noticing that the bodies of vego's and the bodies of meat eaters store, process, and make use of food inputs differently (sometimes quite differently), but the research on vego and vegan diets etc. is just starting to come in so there are a lot of questions as to how this actually happens (not as many studies done or of the right kind that could isolate this 'phenomenon'). So-the science says don't rely on a MULTI-vitamin with b12 in it as a supplementary because in that form the vitamin becomes an analog (not the real deal) of b12 and the body can't make use of it. some say it even prohibits the uptake of b12 in the body. A supplement of just b12 on its own is fine, best in liquid form.

 

 

B12 comes from bacteria growth and all plants and animals with b12 have it from the bacteria growing in or on them. The bacteria growing in animals make them a better source of b12 because they have much more of it (bacteria) growing in them. Different areas of our bodies also produce b12 bacteria, for example gums and small intestine.

 

Liver is a good source (raw liver being a winner). Not washing your veges too much will retain some of the dirt/bacteria with more chance of b12 content. Walking barefoot in good soil can possibly give uptake. But the good news doesn't end there!

 

Even if you are doing all the right things there are factors that can INHIBIT assimilation or DEPLETE levels or ELEVATE the need for b12. Including:

Low digestive secretions and gut activity can block absorption.

Excess fat and protein may increase b12 needs.

Excess cooking depletes (normal cooking too) b12.

Alcohol, tobacco, coffee, birth pills, antibiotics etc increase the need for b12.

Pregnancy and lactation cause depletion.

Contaminated meat may stimulate the growth of bacteria thatmay block b12 uptake.

 

There are other things to look out for too but...just take a supplement and forget about it!

 

 

Oh, for the vegos' reading here's some positives. vegos have been shown to have better absorption rates than meat-eaters in regards b12. Meat-eaters who ingest 10 micrograms a day are estimated to absorb 16% of it while vegans who may be ingesting 1 microgram a day (it's estimated .25-.5 micrograms a day is an adequate MINIMUM intake) are estimated to absorb up to 70% of it. there is even an estimate that those on low-fat, low- protein veg diets with good health habits need only 0.05 micrograms a day and even that vegans who don't do any of the bad stuff (like me ) don't need an outside source at all! Who knows! hope this helps. Paul.

[Ramon25]

There was a lady I knew who was a yogi her most of her life and a vegan with some pretty bad dimentia no doubt a b12 defiancy as the symptoms can look exactly alike.

[evZENy]

Well, in my lab we had a vegan Indian postdoc who had to enter a mental institution...

But he was eating nothing else but rice with some carrots and peas. And milk. Not exactly balanced diet - not only on Vitamin B12 but many other essential nutrients - other vitamins, minerals, protein etc.

 

Tai Chi is about "not too much, not to little"

 

Which is another common thing with the Middle Way which Buddha recommended.

[11:33]

It is a shame so many "wise people" don't know more about nutrition.

[WhiteTiger]

 

http://www.happyplanet.com.au/shop/product...hp?ProductID=96

 

http://images.google.nl/images?hl=nl&u...=18&ndsp=18

 

hempseed cucumber soup

 

zucchini hempseed latkes

 

hemp seed nut butter

[2]

 

Tried some.

 

It is not extra great. But its alright milk.

 

Thanks for the suggestion nice to have a change of pace from that unsweetened soy milk that does get a little old. I like the stuff although I know one shouldn't drink to much of the stuff.

Edited June 10, 2009 by WhiteTiger

[billb]

I thought blue green algae was a good source of B12 does anyone know if this is true.

[evZENy]

I thought blue green algae was a good source of B12 does anyone know if this is true.

Check the links in post 22 above