Full-lotus only hurts when I get out of the position

[Taomeow]

I thought once you open your MCO or awaken your kundalini, it's permanent, though?

 

Also, what is Gurdjeff's numbered list of levels?

 

Seth - I have since found that the one key stretch is actually this one.

That

is actually quite on-point.

Ouch, this bring back TKD memories!

 

My TKD teacher used to talk on his cell phone from this position -- only HIS split was full.

 

He made you learn this stretch by having you sit opposite another student who pulled at the ends of your belt with all his/her might while pushing into your thighs with his/her heels, while the teacher himself would sit comfortably on your back and roar his disdain for your pain in Korean. O U C H!!!

 

If you join the Korean army, they will teach you how to do this in no time.

 

This stretch is much harder than the full lotus, by the way. I was already quite comfy in full lotus when I learned this, and it is the next and far more challenging level of flexible, verily.

Edited November 14, 2009 by Taomeow

[joeblast]

oh sweet paresthesia if I stretched that far I have to be careful doing things like that, dont have the posterior strength to do that without it letting my L5 slip a little anteriorly!

[rain]

Ouch, this bring back TKD memories!

 

My TKD teacher used to talk on his cell phone from this position -- only HIS split was full.

 

He made you learn this stretch by having you sit opposite another student who pulled at the ends of your belt with all his/her might while pushing into your thighs with his/her heels, while the teacher himself would sit comfortably on your back and roar his disdain for your pain in Korean. O U C H!!!

 

If you join the Korean army, they will teach you how to do this in no time.

 

This stretch is much harder than the full lotus, by the way. I was already quite comfy in full lotus when I learned this, and it is the next and far more challenging level of flexible, verily.

 

 

well no

I disagree I do this but no full lotus. have seen this been promoted as the "this first then lotus guarantee" pose.

guess there are no guarantees. and yes that dual belt stretch is effective. my teacher used to name it the plow and make sounds like a horse..and make people laugh..and open up

Edited November 14, 2009 by rain

[voidisyinyang]

I can't do the splits but when I do the full-lotus that means it's 3rd Eye time! haha. Meanwhile as I sit in full-lotus watching martial arts movies -- the splits is forced on the victim right before a blow to breaking the neck for the kill. It took a pole to pull the man's leg back so his foot was near his skull. Then wham to the head! No I'll stick to stretching my third eye. haha.

 

well no

I disagree I do this but no full lotus. have seen this been promoted as the "this first then lotus guarantee" pose.

guess there are no guarantees. and yes that dual belt stretch is effective. my teacher used to name it the plow and make people laugh..and open up

[rain]

I can't do the splits but when I do the full-lotus that means it's 3rd Eye time! haha. Meanwhile as I sit in full-lotus watching martial arts movies -- the splits is forced on the victim right before a blow to breaking the neck for the kill. It took a pole to pull the man's leg back so his foot was near his skull. Then wham to the head! No I'll stick to stretching my third eye. haha.

 

 

gee. at least you're not bored

[宁]

well no

I disagree I do this but no full lotus. have seen this been promoted as the "this first then lotus guarantee" pose.

guess there are no guarantees. and yes that dual belt stretch is effective. my teacher used to name it the plow and make sounds like a horse..and make people laugh..and open up

 

ditto... also, don't try to move the ankles up the thighs too fast, let the mobility develop gradually...

[Taomeow]

oh sweet paresthesia if I stretched that far I have to be careful doing things like that, dont have the posterior strength to do that without it letting my L5 slip a little anteriorly!

You have my respect for stretching into medical Latin then.

well no

I disagree I do this but no full lotus. have seen this been promoted as the "this first then lotus guarantee" pose.

guess there are no guarantees. and yes that dual belt stretch is effective. my teacher used to name it the plow and make sounds like a horse..and make people laugh..and open up

Oh, OK, you're right -- what's hard/easy is individual.

 

Drew, have you ever noticed that the full lotus sort of reveals where the tensions are in your body if you watch for the physical rather than spiritual effects? I like doing all kinds of stretches from this position -- waist and head rotations in the shape of the taiji symbol, Snake Queen pose (arms behind your head, both elbows pointing to the ceiling, hands in assorted mudras), hopping about on your hands or bouncing up and down (which I'm told the Maharishi used to peddle as the prerequisite for levitation... no levitation yet though... ), and a shoulder stand in lotus (oh, by the way, here's my own area of "can't do that" -- headstand, not that I can't do it physically, I can't do it emotionally, it scares me into birth memories.)

[gendao]

I disagree I do this but no full lotus. have seen this been promoted as the "this first then lotus guarantee" pose.

Make sure you work on counter-rotating your legs back from your hip sockets. Because the counter-rotation here is the key to full-lotus. IOW, your toes should not be pointing forward, but pointing up or even backwards in this stretch.

 

Ideally, your whole body would be flat on the ground with your toes pointing back (no, I am not even close to doing this myself yet!):

Taomeow - I heard Weilun Huang can lay flat on the ground in a perfect T. From his depth in "snake creeps down," I believe it.

 

Stretching and sitting progressively towards full-lotus seem to combine cross-training for mental, energetic & physical aspects that all mutually crossover and support each other. So instead of doing a handful of separate exercises, this one alone efficiently covers several bases at once. And selected ones that specifically work towards the same goal.

 

The stretching and posture itself help to open the kua. This is a fundamental foundation in martial arts. The groin is a key physical and energetic junction point, and so opening it should improve both physical and energetic functions. I seem to have more loose mobility and circulation in my crotch now.

 

Also, most of us typically have a weak lower back and kidneys. Well, sitting straight up in full-lotus seems to target the lumbar region and lengthen and strengthen the muscles and ligaments there. After several months of just half-lotus, my handstands have improved a lot. Why? I think because my spine has gradually become more posturally aligned and my lumbar region also straightened and strengthened.

 

Point being, working towards full-lotus is not a quick fix. It is a slow, incremental process. But one that may reward you with a host of various, sustained benefits.

 

 

Disclaimer: Of course, common sense safety measures apply here. Know your limits and I wouldn't try this if you have lower body injuries. Take things very slow and don't force "progress." I drop down into the T-stretch veerryy slowly in order to bypass the protective myotatic reflex and reprogram my fascia to "melt" and release. Another tip here is to pretend someone is pulling the tip of your tailbone back, and to initiate your bend from down there - so eventually your a-hole is pointing straight back like a tailpipe. And I think the further back you tuck your feet towards your hips while in lotus, the less stress gets put on your knees.

Edited April 11, 2010 by vortex

[Taomeow]

Taomeow - I heard Weilun Huang can lay flat on the ground in a perfect T. From his depth in "snake creeps down," I believe it.

 

Wow!

 

You train for this one by doing the "single whip" under the table! I'm not kidding!

[effilang]

Wow!

 

You train for this one by doing the "single whip" under the table! I'm not kidding!

 

That guy can probably pull off single whip in a shoe box!

[effilang]

I was in full lotus for a little over an hour today. Legs numb and all.

 

When i got out i was like a cripple for 5 mins

 

Is it always gonna be like that after i get out of the pose.

I understand the bio-logic behind not being able to move, but man...

 

My ankle hurts as well right after, the one at the bottom. I try and keep it as straight as possible, but alas it still bends a little.

 

If not for the ankle pain and slight knee pain, all of which are lessening now. It feels great right after the pose and i love the feeling of the blood rushing back into my legs.

Edited November 25, 2009 by effilang

[gendao]

^ Wow, that's hardcore.

 

But personally, I wouldn't sit in full-lotus for an hour until you can at least sit comfortably in half lotus for an hour. Remember, don't force progress - or it will only backfire. Just do what you're ready to do.

 

I've been sitting in half lotus for 4 months now and have not even attempted full-lotus yet. Why? Because I can't sit very comfortably in half lotus for the full hour yet. But when I can do that, then I will start trying full-lotus.

Edited November 26, 2009 by vortex

[effilang]

^ Wow, that's hardcore.

 

But personally, I wouldn't sit in full-louts for an hour until you can at least sit comfortably in half lotus for an hour. Remember, don't force progress - or it will only backfire. Just do what you're ready to do.

 

I've been sitting in half lotus for 4 months now and have not even attempted full-lotus yet. Why? Because I can't sit very comfortably in half lotus for the full hour yet. But when I can do that, then I will start trying full-lotus.

 

I was having trouble at first getting my legs on right, cuz only one leg was going numb lol and the other was ok, but after a week of regular practice and lots of wide base front stretches i can get both of them up high now.

 

The best stuff for it is that wide base front stretch Vortex.

I sit on the ground and spread my legs at the base of the table so both my ankles are at either side of the tables legs for support, then i just shift my butt in and my legs begin to slide open over the table legs, don't know if u can picture that visually, but this really helps if u don't have a partner. Normally someone would hold ur hands and push ur legs apart with theirs, but all i have is my table and it's safer that way : )

 

I do get concerned once in a while though, when my legs are dead for like 30 mins in the FL pose. It's like man... i better be able to use my legs again after i get out of this lol - cuz they go complete dead, that u have to lift them out the pose with ur hands and lift them to straighten them, or wait for the blood to come back so u can use ur brain signals.

Edited November 26, 2009 by effilang

[effilang]

I would say that while numbness may be experienced while using certain meditation positions, it is not a good thing.

 

There are several reasons for saying this. First, the numbness is a sign of reduced or restricted blood flow to the lower extremities. This lack of blood flow results in the nerves and muscles being 'shut off' due to lack of nutrients and oxygen, as well as a build up of waste materials (carbon dioxide, etc) in the extremities. Additionally, under rare conditions and if prolonged, it can result in an uncommon condition know as deep venous thrombosis where blood clots form in the extremities.

 

It's posts like that that make me wonder about full lotus.

 

I've also heard some people say that the numbness in the legs and them going dead is a temporary thing.

 

*shrug

Edited November 26, 2009 by effilang

[voidisyinyang]

This is painful to watch because the first 4 minutes she's healing her knees with a very expensive Russian designed bioelectric device -- then the final minute she goes into full-lotus but she's forcing it.

 

 

Notice how her knee is still way up in the air when she has her foot on her thigh. That's not a good sign! haha. The knee should be on the ground especially for the first leg. The second leg knee might be a bit off the ground at first, until the channels open up a bit. Of course it depends on how "steep" the posture it -- meaning how far the feet are on the thighs.

 

But you want the feet facing up as well which for me doesn't happen so easily. Look at Chunyi Lin's full-lotus posture if possible -- it's online somewhere I'm sure.

 

The point is that her solution to get into the full-lotus is BIOELECTRIC energy which should also be the way any other person can go into full-lotus.

 

This is why it's important to do the alchemy training as you work your way into full-lotus -- so first start with standing active exercises plus lots of small universe -- the level 1 sitting meditation c.d. from http://springforestqigong.com is a really excellent tool for this. Then when the electromagnetic qi fields increase enough the body channels open up.

 

So then after the qi builds up finally when the shen light third eye is open you have the "macrocosmic orbit" which means you can sit in full-lotus as long as you want provided there is a continuous flow of electrochemical jing energy into your lower body while there is the electromagnetic flow (qi and shen) out the pineal gland.

 

The main thing is to open the lower back point (the small of the back) -- called the "kundabuffer" by Gurdjieff -- it stretches open so that the energy can then flow up the spine and when that happens the hips will loosen up (so the knees lower) and it feels really awesome.

 

For me I go into full-lotus as much as possible but it's best to wait a couple hours after eating. It depends how much brain energy you're creating but the diet gets more extreme with the third eye open. Diet is very difficult which is why advanced practitioners use the "modified bigu" diet (basically constant fasting with one small veggie meal every 24 hours).

 

After the third eye opens there is a permanent magnetic bliss in the center of the brain which gets strengthened through 20 minutes of full-lotus. That means the vagus nerve is always transducing the lower body energy up into the pineal gland even when not in full-lotus, vastly increasing the serotonin in the brain for bliss. There's no turning back after this which means your diet will always have to be based on what's healthy, as well as your emotions, or else you have to leach toxins from your brain! haha.

 

So I'm always leaching toxins from my brain as the off-gassing byproduct of also transmitting the electromagnetic energy. This is because I just eat what my parents eat since my mom wants me to eat her food! haha. I even got in trouble in a monastery because I had to fast to clean out my channels while I did full-lotus and it freaked the monks out! haha. They did not practice full-lotus and fasting is not allowed very easily in some of the meditation traditions.

 

Gurdjieff ate very little though and Wang, Liping eats very little, as does Chunyi Lin. This is because the electrochemical jing energy is more purified than food so the full-lotus is really a free energy vortex. This is the great secret of the full-lotus which is definitely not apparent when people think it is something achieved by better stretching! haha.

 

 

 

 

 

It's posts like that that make me wonder about full lotus.

 

I've also heard some people say that the numbness in the legs and them going dead is a temporary thing.

 

*shrug

[Guest winpro07]

..

Edited November 26, 2009 by winpro07

[Yuen Biao]

^ Wow, that's hardcore.

 

But personally, I wouldn't sit in full-louts for an hour until you can at least sit comfortably in half lotus for an hour. Remember, don't force progress - or it will only backfire. Just do what you're ready to do.

 

I've been sitting in half lotus for 4 months now and have not even attempted full-lotus yet. Why? Because I can't sit very comfortably in half lotus for the full hour yet. But when I can do that, then I will start trying full-lotus.

 

I'm at about this juncture right now also. Can I ask if you alternate between which leg sits high on the thigh as a means to equally distribute the strwetch? Indeed is it even okay to do this?

 

Thanks.

[voidisyinyang]

usually the right leg is on top. Maybe because we're left brain dominant. Chunyi Lin can switch legs equally -- real meditation is when the body is so full of electromagnetic fields that you see light inside the body and the rest is mind meditation after that.

 

I'm at about this juncture right now also. Can I ask if you alternate between which leg sits high on the thigh as a means to equally distribute the strwetch? Indeed is it even okay to do this?

 

Thanks.

[Yuen Biao]

^ Ok that helps. Thank you.

 

Being natural and going with the flow is always the best advice.

Edited November 27, 2009 by Yuen Biao

[gendao]

The best stuff for it is that wide base front stretch Vortex.

I sit on the ground and spread my legs at the base of the table so both my ankles are at either side of the tables legs for support, then i just shift my butt in and my legs begin to slide open over the table legs, don't know if u can picture that visually, but this really helps if u don't have a partner. Normally someone would hold ur hands and push ur legs apart with theirs, but all i have is my table and it's safer that way : )

I think I get that - basically splaying your legs apart by "pegging" them out in front of table legs and pushing closer to them?

 

I do the same thing, just splay them down into the floor (splits) with the gravity assist.

I'm at about this juncture right now also. Can I ask if you alternate between which leg sits high on the thigh as a means to equally distribute the strwetch? Indeed is it even okay to do this?

Taoist Yoga advises placing the left shin outside on top, so that "yang embraces yin" (p 2).

 

Whereas The Tao Of Meditation shows the right shin outside on top...but also says that you can alternate legs to avoid numbness (p 115).

 

Personally, I alternate legs to keep my posture symmetrical.

Edited November 29, 2009 by vortex

[YMWong]

In Wang Liping's system they consider the crossed leg position as 'earth', the single lotus as 'man' and the full (double) lotus as 'sky'. I don't remember having seen this idea elsewhere

They have nine different hand postures to go with lotus.

 

YM

Edited December 6, 2009 by YMWong

[Ken]

Where did you hear that from, YMWong? I have never heard them referred to that way.

 

Also there are 36 mudras in Ling Bao Bi Fa, not 9.

 

In Wang Liping's system they consider the crossed leg position as 'earth', the single lotus as 'man' and the full (double) lotus as 'sky'. I don't remember having seen this idea elsewhere

They have nine different hand postures to go with lotus.

 

YM

[YMWong]

Where did you hear that from, YMWong? I have never heard them referred to that way.

 

Also there are 36 mudras in Ling Bao Bi Fa, not 9.

 

Some old material from WLP

If I find it I'll scan it for you

 

YM

[joeblast]

Personally, I alternate legs to keep my posture symmetrical.

I always am sure to do both legs as equally as possible!

[time to change]

I always am sure to do both legs as equally as possible!

i do full lotus but always my left leg goes dead numb do you think if i keek on meditating it could regaing circulation and the numbness goes away