Reincarnate Lama Turns Away From Buddhism

[Sunya]

 

There is a KARMIC reason why TIBET LOST TIBET....

 

I hate to tell you the truth and you might not like it.

 

and maybe there is a karmic reason for you meeting these not so great Lamas, does not mean it's the truth.

[Vajrahridaya]

 

& I can tell you that JUST cause they wear the robes and tell folks to go into retreat doesn't make them perfect nor any better than the PURE STATE OF MIND of a child. Regardless of whether the child has Karma or not from the AGE of birth till 8 or 9 they are closer to BUDDHA-HOOD than MOST "practitioners".

 

The mind is deeper than what consciously manifests in any given incarnation. The child still has latent karmas that manifest eventually, so no... the possibility of suffering has not been extinguished, for the seeds are just latent in the child to manifest as the karmic incarnation unravels.

 

They are closer to Buddhahood only in a kind of ignorance is bliss, not a complete wisdom is bliss sense.

 

The MAIN ingredient is "LOVE/COMPASSION".... Do your homework. Tibet was not always those 2 words and neither was the LAMASERIES.

 

There is a KARMIC reason why TIBET LOST TIBET....

 

Yes, before Tibetans lost Tibet, the Tibetans used to war with old China before Padmasambhava disarmed Tibet through Buddhism. No problem, it was expected and seen to happen by various Buddhist Masters who are beyond karma anyway and never lost their state regardless, but tried to warn, because nothing is engraved in stone and can be transformed through transformation of awareness, by understanding deeply.

 

Also... the term Lamaism is really not quite correct. Tibetan Buddhism is Vajrayana which existed in India and has NOT changed it's way of expression other than in merging in various Tibetan dressings over time. Yes, it evolved, but through the same standard of scrutiny and deep meditation. Vajrayana found it's protection in the Himalayas after the Muslims destroyed most of it in India. It proliferated very well and very pure in Tibet for the most part. Remember, there was no mass media to distract Tibetans from practicing the Vajrayana Buddhadharma. It's sooo pure through various lineages. Not perfect in the conventional sense, but is through various lineages that are linked directly to the Buddha.

 

Don't get hung up on LAMAISM. ABSORB what is useful (Most of the original stuff that comes from MAHASIDDHA YOGA & Pre BUDDHIST Shamanism (bonpo). The rest is just "Organized Religion"

 

No... the original stuff is Vajrayana from India. Bonpo was found to be the last vestiges of the previous Buddha before Shakyamuni. Your interpretation needs more education and anthropology. Bonpo was always non-theistic and had already stable beliefs that were quite akin to Buddhist view. It just needed re-clarification.

 

I did for years its almost 90% Bogus. & Most of it comes from Ancient Persia & its roots are the same as what you have in Catholicism (Mithraism) AKA "PRIESTHOOD". Do they have great methods? YES but good luck you will be kissing ass for years and doing a LOT of shit that us USELESS till you get to the real stuff. If it works for you great...

 

The Buddha manifested the first truly organized monastic tradition in the world, in India. Tibetan Buddhism is hardly influenced by anything much Persian. As even the Buddha never bowed to the Vedas which is arguably from the Persian invasion of India. Though some do not concur.

 

The real stuff is what the Mahasiddhas did and what the real TANTRIC Yogis & Dzogchenpas do.

 

Oh yes, of course, but Dzogchen is not different from the first statement of the Buddha. Mahamudra has the same realization and leads to the Jalus or rainbow body as well.

 

Some Lamas are great. Some are just here to "SELL" you there "DHARMA". I hate to tell you the truth and you might not like it.

 

Love

 

Santiago

 

Hey... we're on earth.. not a Buddha realm, conventionally speaking.

[Sunya]

What original post are you referring to?

ralis

 

"I guess he saw through their trip! LOL!"

[Sunya]

 

 

Don't get hung up on LAMAISM. ABSORB what is useful (Most of the original stuff that comes from MAHASIDDHA YOGA & Pre BUDDHIST Shamanism (bonpo). The rest is just "Organized Religion"

 

I did for years its almost 90% Bogus. & Most of it comes from Ancient Persia & its roots are the same as what you have in Catholicism (Mithraism) AKA "PRIESTHOOD". Do they have great methods? YES but good luck you will be kissing ass for years and doing a LOT of shit that us USELESS till you get to the real stuff. If it works for you great...

 

all of the "useless" stuff is about establishing View. to you that is useless, to many Buddhist practitioners View is everything, ask a real Buddhist yogi and he will say the same thing. "What is useful" without the right view will not lead to Buddhist realization, might as well call yourself a Theist and enjoy those unitive blissful experiences while they last until your good karma dries up and you're back on the suffering wheel.

 

I understand that on this forum, there is a big mass conceptual agreement that method is everything and view doesn't matter, or rather one should forget about view and simply surrender (to your latent karmas) and somehow you'll realize truth. but really, this is not how the Buddhists teaching things since method is not the proper seed for the fruition of awakening, so to you this is useless, to Buddhists this is gold.

 

yogic method is like suping up your car: put in a killer engine with a turbo kit, some nos tanks, fancy seats, the works. as fast as that bad boy is, you're still driving blind because you forgot to clean your windshield

Edited June 2, 2009 by mikaelz

[Vajrasattva]

Your interpretation needs more education and anthropology.

 

 

You are right.

 

I know nothing

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

all of the "useless" stuff is about establishing View. to you that is useless, to many Buddhist practitioners View is everything, ask a real Buddhist yogi and he will say the same thing. "What is useful" without the right view will not lead to Buddhist realization, might as well call yourself a Theist and enjoy those unitive blissful experiences while they last until your good karma dries up and you're back on the suffering wheel.

 

I understand that on this forum, there is a big mass conceptual agreement that method is everything and view doesn't matter, or rather one should forget about view and simply surrender (to your latent karmas) and somehow you'll realize truth. but really, this is not how the Buddhists teaching things since method is not the proper seed for the fruition of awakening, so to you this is useless, to Buddhists this is gold.

 

yogic method is like suping up your car: put in a killer engine with a turbo kit, some nos tanks, fancy seats, the works. as fast as that bad boy is, you're still driving blind because you forgot to clean your windshield

 

 

How would you know what the real YOGIC view is if you have not attained it?

 

 

 

hardly influenced by anything much Persian.

 

Really? You sure?

 

 

and maybe there is a karmic reason for you meeting these not so great Lamas, does not mean it's the truth.

 

 

some i met where & are wonderful. I didnt say all of it is Bogus...go back & read.

[Pero]

I know nothing

 

The sad thing is is that you really believe what you actually meant with this statement.

[ralis]

Afromojo and Vajrahridaya have shown their true colors and are no different than any religious right wing fundamentalist! You judge me to be impure, and have bad karma for what I said in the original post. Good! Why would I want to be in the same path you guys are involved in! It is people like you that give Buddhism a bad name.

 

Your posts are full of non-sequiturs, absolute statements and generally try to prove your incorrect ideas of Tibetan history. If you are going to fantasize and romanticize about Tibet, then preface your statements with (in my opinion). Please don't insult the readers intelligence with unproven statements. Base what you argue with facts, not innuendo or wild assumptions. You appear not to think for your selves and only follow your ideas around religious dogma.

 

Someone here stated that Padmasambhava could be anyone at anytime and anywhere. Maybe I am Padmasambhava and I am here to put you both on the correct path! LOL!! Prove that I am not him or her?

 

 

ralis

[ralis]

Vajrahridaya,

 

Your arguments for the so called superiority of your Buddhist view, are no different than the early Hebrew people in Mesopotamia. They got the illusory idea that their god Yahweh was the ultimate expression of divinity. That is the reason for the belief in monotheism today. I refer you to Joseph Campbell's "The Masks of God". Your arguments are nothing more than "my god is bigger and better than your god". In your view Buddha is a God! You can't prove otherwise.

 

 

ralis

Edited June 2, 2009 by ralis

[Sunya]

Afromojo and Vajrahridaya have shown their true colors and are no different than any religious right wing fundamentalist!

 

and you are no different than any zealous modern atheist/agnostic, bashing religion at every turn, skewing history in your own favor, only looking only at the negatives; simply having no respect whatsoever for ancient traditions that have produced countless highly realized beings.

 

In your view Buddha is a God! You can't prove otherwise.

 

Uh,, in the Buddhist view we are all Gods. but you're right, can't prove anything, Oh wise and compassionate internet troll, please show us the light. please keep posting ridiculous posts showing your insecurity towards religion and authority which have unfounded basis; no one will question anything you say, because you post with such clarity and insight, explaining everything with such detail and unbias. please go on, I assure you, you are not wasting your time at all..

[Siliconvalley1]

simply having no respect whatsoever for ancient traditions that have produced countless highly realized beings.

 

 

Look who's talking

Edited June 2, 2009 by Siliconvalley1

[Sunya]

Look who's talking

 

just because I don't agree that every spiritual tradition leads to the same realization does not mean I do not respect them

[Vajrasattva]

The sad thing is is that you really believe what you actually meant with this statement.

 

 

I know nothing.

[Sunya]

I have dealt with ENOUGH Lamas to know what I am saying. Take it or leave it...Fine with me either way. I have been in retreats before and Yes they have their value... But it will never replace being a master in the HERE & NOW while you are also a father /bill payer/and in society helping others "BECOME". The ultimate RETREAT is the one inside your heart or in the HEART LOTUS PEDAL within....no where else.

 

& I can tell you that JUST cause they wear the robes and tell folks to go into retreat doesn't make them perfect nor any better than the PURE STATE OF MIND of a child. Regardless of whether the child has Karma or not from the AGE of birth till 8 or 9 they are closer to BUDDHA-HOOD than MOST "practitioners".

 

The MAIN ingredient is "LOVE/COMPASSION".... Do your homework. Tibet was not always those 2 words and neither was the LAMASERIES.

 

There is a KARMIC reason why TIBET LOST TIBET....

 

Don't get hung up on LAMAISM. ABSORB what is useful (Most of the original stuff that comes from MAHASIDDHA YOGA & Pre BUDDHIST Shamanism (bonpo). The rest is just "Organized Religion"

 

I did for years its almost 90% Bogus. & Most of it comes from Ancient Persia & its roots are the same as what you have in Catholicism (Mithraism) AKA "PRIESTHOOD". Do they have great methods? YES but good luck you will be kissing ass for years and doing a LOT of shit that us USELESS till you get to the real stuff. If it works for you great...

 

The real stuff is what the Mahasiddhas did and what the real TANTRIC Yogis & Dzogchenpas do.

 

Some Lamas are great. Some are just here to "SELL" you there "DHARMA". I hate to tell you the truth and you might not like it.

 

Love

 

Santiago

 

 

I know nothing.

 

 

K.

[Vajrahridaya]

Vajrahridaya,

 

Your arguments for the so called superiority of your Buddhist view, are no different than the early Hebrew people in Mesopotamia. They got the illusory idea that their god Yahweh was the ultimate expression of divinity. That is the reason for the belief in monotheism today. I refer you to Joseph Campbell's "The Masks of God". Your arguments are nothing more than "my god is bigger and better than your god". In your view Buddha is a God! You can't prove otherwise.

ralis

 

Actually I can and have.

 

Buddha is merely a being like me who saw dependent origination directly, me only in glimpses, but close enough to have an understanding of Buddhas meaning when he also argued with Brahmin's and Jains even Mahavira. Buddha was an elitist. Dependent Origination reveals how truly complex the universe is, and how it's not all going in one direction. Which is the basic view that all paths lead to the same truth go upon. Dependent Origination reveals how truly chaotic the order of all things are.

 

So it's not a new age Monist view.

 

You be well.

 

I know nothing.

 

Are you trying to say nothing is an ultimate truth?

 

Oh boy...

 

As Nagarjuna said...

 

"One who adopts emptiness as a view is thereby pronounced incurable"

[Iskote]

...

Edited June 7, 2009 by Iskote

[Buddhayo]

Whew!

Just an observation ...

Perhaps we sometimes forget that deep, slow, relaxed, gentle breathing can

accomplish more than a thousand words, no matter how artfully, forcefully,

or harshly the words are spoken.

Compassion, love, spirituality ...

It seems to me that these are more than just words or concepts.

I'm just saying ...

 

 

I do agree. But this is a discussion board.

 

Thanks for the reminder though... always!!

 

"Breathes"... mmmm... mantra.

[koyanishi]

Also... the term Lamaism is really not quite correct. Tibetan Buddhism is Vajrayana which existed in India and has NOT changed it's way of expression other than in merging in various Tibetan dressings over time.

 

There are many differences between Tibetan Vajrayana and the Indian Buddhist Tantric tradition. India did not have a system of reincarnated gurus/lamas for one. For another the anuttara level of tantra seems to have been practiced mostly by non monastics. And also one doesn't hear of monks in India wielding immense political power and running monastic holdings on a feudalistic basis.

Edited June 3, 2009 by koyanishi

[Buddhayo]

There are many differences between Tibetan Vajrayana and the Indian Buddhist Tantric tradition. India did not have a system of reincarnated gurus/lamas for one. For another the anuttara level of tantra seems to have been practiced mostly by non monastics. And also one doesn't hear of monks in India wielding immense political power and running monastic holdings on a feudalistic basis.

 

I thought of the Tulku tradition after I posted my comment. You are absolutely correct in all your points. I stand corrected. But, what I mostly mean is that the view is the same, of course it evolved in expression. But, as well, I would love to have someone as qualified as the Dalai Lama as my president!!

[koyanishi]

But, as well, I would love to have someone as qualified as the Dalai Lama as my president!!

 

Not me.

 

The leader of a nation has as main burdens creating wealth, defending the nation and setting a moral standard (keep the law). Wealth creation and national defense are incompatible with being a monk.

 

Then too, a monk is supposed to be a renunciate not a political leader.

Edited June 3, 2009 by koyanishi

[Vajrasattva]

I thought of the Tulku tradition after I posted my comment. You are absolutely correct in all your points. I stand corrected. But, what I mostly mean is that the view is the same, of course it evolved in expression. But, as well, I would love to have someone as qualified as the Dalai Lama as my president!!

 

 

Not all DALAI LAMAS are created equal....Some where some serious douchebags....

 

The last one is probably them most "Universal" & Compassionate.

 

I give him a

[Sunya]

Not all DALAI LAMAS are created equal....Some where some serious douchebags....

 

The last one is probably them most "Universal" & Compassionate.

 

I give him a

 

Hey not all Popes were great either, doesn't mean that the Roman Catholic Church is terrible.

 

human history shows that we truly are living in the degenerate age, Kali Yuga, Tibet is no exception. you can not judge Tibet by modern standards. look at America before modernization, look at Europe. things weren't that great either.

[Squatting Monkey]

It is people like you that give Buddhism a bad name.

 

I wasn't aware that Buddhism has a bad name.

[Vajrasattva]

Hey not all Popes were great either, doesn't mean that the Roman Catholic Church is terrible.

 

human history shows that we truly are living in the degenerate age, Kali Yuga, Tibet is no exception. you can not judge Tibet by modern standards. look at America before modernization, look at Europe. things weren't that great either.

 

 

Mikaelz you and i have had interactions before. You remind me of the guy that has the chance to actually learn something but keeps going about it in the manner that actually keeps him from really experiencing it for real. Even though he has all the "MAPS" infront of him. Somethings are not meant to be "STUDIED" in the left brain mode.

 

What i get from you is a guy that "READS" a lot and "TALKS" a lot but yet has no real "JUICE". When you do you will then later say hey things are much more "UNIVERSAL" than "one box" or one "WAY" or "TIBETAN" and you will actually be able to realize i am not the only one that has these feelings (ever wonder why some of the HIGH UP LAMAS associate themselves with folks from other HIGH UP ORDERS?????).

 

33 degrees is the only clue i can give you....You need to do your own research inside and also at the foot steps of a Lama. Its closer to something people disregard and overlook than they want to accept.

 

I know DREW knows what I am talking about as do others . I was with the Dalai Lama for 4 days straight even though he taught the "highest view/Dzogchen" he still did all the "Yogic" & Tantric things as well as he taught/breathed and "did" even though most did not "see".

 

 

 

Dalai lama said that the Chinese, Indonesians, Japanese had more advnaced Tantras than what Tibet had cause Tantra wa sin those regions way before it came into Tibet.

 

Please research Atisha.

 

 

the three paths go hand in hand

 

Renunciation

Tantra

Dzogchen/Mahamudra

 

And you can find them in Hindu Yoga, Shamanism, Sufism

 

Having a "VIEW" is good but at the end of the day STOP the mental masterbation and either DO or DO NOT DO.

 

I appreciate you standing up for Tibetan Buddhism. Yes it has its Joys & wonderful treasures but please do not turn your cheek to the other crap it has as well just like all RELIGIONS have their "SHIT" as well.

 

If you understood me and understood the work I do you would realize I make it even clearer for people with out the Un needed B.S.. Why? Cause i have gone through the BS and so have my teachers. Ultimately the "GREATEST" secrets do belong to everyone and are our BIRTHRIGHTS.

 

I am not JUDGING i am sharing experiences. That is the difference.

 

I have sat with the Lamas. I am very grateful that i received the training I received but at the same time I can honestly tell you 10% is useful the rest is just "Control" , "priest hoood" "Organized Religion" to keep the peasants in line.

 

And for the other dude who had said it has nothing to do with Mithraism, nor Ancient Persia, Egypt PLEASE do yourself a favor and look again.

 

Why are the Mudras for GREEN TARA Sadhana the same as the ones found in Sufism, Catholicism & Mithraism & Isis Cult worship?

 

Why is SALAT so similar to PROSTRATIONS?

 

Why is Bonpo Dzogchen so similar to Taoism, Sufism & Shivaism & Zoraoster? Why is the old BONPO kingdom From Afghan to What we know today as China & Tibet???

 

No religion is innocent of this CHRISTIANITY, ISLAM, JUDAISM all have their paws dirty too. Sad but True. But they each have "GEMS" learn them and digest them and seek the Universality that will bring you to TRUTH.

 

Absorb what is useful - Bruce Lee (Actually Dan Inosanto came up with that Quote).

 

It was my experience that most of the LAMAS would "HUSH HUSH" the energy work & Kundalini yet they all did for themselves and so they could have the "POWER" meanwhile the peasant/white man (with whitewomen the Lamas want to stick their buddhanature into their Boob&Vagina chakras) still stayed for ever searching for truth that was supposed to come "AUTOMATIC" from a view as long as they help the Lamas make ends meet with either their Yoni Chakras or $,.....Yet after 30 years of practice still no changes no actualization of SELF & TRUTH. Mean while when someone has the keys in 2 to 3 months LIFE CHANGES occur...why is that???

 

There are exceptions to this and thank God for that. But like I said before they are like a 1 % that actually HAVE IT and share it truthfully. and those LAMAS that live that way and share TRUTH are the real Masters. But again its fewer than what everyone "expects".

 

 

"It" comes from TRANSMISSION AKA SHAKTIPAT AKA DIKSHA AKA BARAKA AKA the BAPTISM BY FIRE HOLY GHOST AKA KUNDALINI

 

Peace & I wish you Success in your journeys inward.

 

Santiago

Edited June 3, 2009 by Vajrasattva

[Sunya]

Santi, you know I respect you and the work you do, but sometimes I really think you buy too much into anti-intellectualism and same-method = same realization thing, even though you've studied with many Tibetan masters. i'm sure they told you how important view is, which has nothing to do with mental masturbation. It's cause and effect. view is the seed, realization is the fruit. fruit depends on seed. method (tantra, dzogchen, archery) are only watering the seed. I'm sure the Dalai lama told you this, Gelugpa is the most intellectual of the schools, and yet they have many masters.

 

you don't believe that view is important, that's fine, but I really have a problem with you making it seem like you have the real goods of Tibetan Buddhism just because you learned the methods, when no Tibetan master will ever tell you that view is just mental masturbation and extra BS. this has nothing to do with keeping the peasants and reaffirming the priesthood. it's so much deeper than culture.

 

I think it's very good that you are looking for the bare essentials. I know that you are carrying out Glenn's legacy, this was his mission. but I'm sure Glenn said that it's important not to throw the baby out with the bath water. i feel like you may be doing this..

 

and I appreciate you looking out for my evolvement, i think i'm doing okay, will be beginning ngondro soon with a Kagyu Dzogchen lineage holder. I personally find all the extra BS to be essential, so i'm looking forward to creating the necessary causes for my future enlightenment

[Buddhayo]

Vajrasattva,

 

View in Buddhism is explained through concepts, but it's not merely concepts.

 

If you were around the Dalai Lama, then you'd understand that he doesn't agree with you and thinks your wrong.

 

The energy is the same, but how it's subtly comprehended changes the way it's utilized, and because, "right view" is the first of the 8 fold nobel path and directly intertwined with Vipassana which means insight, it transcends the idea that all it takes is going within to find the Truth.

 

One needs "Right View" according to the Buddha as he showed that Jhana alone is not going to do it.

 

The final comprehension of how the cosmos works is different, thus the realization is different.

 

Your considering some non-conceptual ground to be the truth of all, thereby not having insight into how things work, including how conditioned meditation is without insight.

 

Your taking emptiness as a view.

 

That's very clear and reifying it. You don't understand dependent origination, because if you did, you'd realize that the entire universe is not going in one direction but infinite directions and that not all paths lead to the same place.

 

realization is predicated upon view. This is not some concept, this is just how realization works in Buddhism. If you disagree, that's fine, but to think that all paths lead to the complete and total pacification of unconscious re-birth... you and the Buddha are not in agreement.

 

 

 

and I appreciate you looking out for my evolvement, i think i'm doing okay, will be beginning ngondro soon with a Kagyu Dzogchen lineage holder. I personally find all the extra BS to be essential, so i'm looking forward to creating the necessary causes for my future enlightenment

 

I'm so overjoyed Michael!! I'm sooo happy to no end!! My eyes are all watery...

Edited June 3, 2009 by Buddhayo