eight extraordinary vessels circulation exercise

[Ramon25]

Hey I have a book called qi gung empowerment. In this book they explain and exercise called eight extraordinary vessels circulation. The only ting is that the way they explain the sequence is in no way shape or form understandable to me. Anybody know how to do it right or where i can find a through explanation? Thanks guys

[Afromojo]

the prerequestites are being able to "feel" the chi in the ren and dui mai vessels (for simplicity just the micro cosmic orbit).

 

Being able to feel so you can determine if the flow has collasped through too much intention (too much thought).

 

Then being able to do the grand circulation (all the acupuncture channels)

 

However from what I sense, this meditation may be a mix of the grand circulation and extra vessels.

 

The difficultty in raining these methods are the lack of sensory awareness in general b the people reading them, becuase the wisdom is lost due to the fact that most of us are "trapped in our heads' so to speak. Because of this most people dont know how to do anything outside of thinking about it and that is the trap.

 

Thats what the permiation exercise that is the beginning one in the book teaches. You learn to "feel".

Gentle abiding nurturing of each channel should be used rather than forcing and using will to move energy.

 

Varjasattva and Ya Mu are good teachers, they may know more about these practices than me.

[cheya]

Hey I have a book called qi gung empowerment. In this book they explain and exercise called eight extraordinary vessels circulation. The only ting is that the way they explain the sequence is in no way shape or form understandable to me. Anybody know how to do it right or where i can find a through explanation?

 

Hi Ramon,

James MacRitchie has a great set of Eight Extraordinary Vessels QiGong exercises.

He's put it all up free online.

 

Global Qi Project

 

All the best!

Edited June 29, 2014 by cheya

[Ramon25]

Thanks alot that is great info! But I am still lost. What is the exact sequence? I would assume that you run the microcosmic orbit, then macrocosmic, the belt channel then thrusting channel. It seems that would that be a good sequence? For some reason he puts the macrocosmic orbit after the belt and thrusting channles in the book.

[Creation]

Thanks alot that is great info! But I am still lost. What is the exact sequence? I would assume that you run the microcosmic orbit, then macrocosmic, the belt channel then thrusting channel. It seems that would that be a good sequence? For some reason he puts the macrocosmic orbit after the belt and thrusting channles in the book.

The macrocosmic orbit = full circulation through all 8 extrodinary vessels, which are the Ren and Du (mCO), belt, thrusting, and 4 routes going through the limbs.

[Ramon25]

The macrocosmic orbit = full circulation through all 8 extrodinary vessels, which are the Ren and Du (mCO), belt, thrusting, and 4 routes going through the limbs.

 

Not according to the books I have. The books I have and the sources I have seen simply include the 4 limbs as the macrocosmic orbit. The belt and thrusting channels come later. THe eight extraordinary vessels circulation includes all the channels but not the macrocosmic orbit.

[Trunk]

Good info here (link).

Edited June 28, 2014 by Trunk

[Creation]

Not according to the books I have. The books I have and the sources I have seen simply include the 4 limbs as the macrocosmic orbit. The belt and thrusting channels come later. THe eight extraordinary vessels circulation includes all the channels but not the macrocosmic orbit.

The way you describe is how how it's done in KAP, but in all the traditional Taoist sources I've seen it's the way I described. But what the definition of the macrocosmic orbit is is not what's important. The point is you need to get all 8 going. The order may differ from system to system, so you want to find a complete system and stick to it.

[Ramon25]

yeah I was going to follow mantak chia's but started to see he has a few dangers in his system and its incomplete. Cant afford micheal winn becuase he does not have anything low cost. Right now what I have at home is A whole bunch of stuff from trunks site. A mantak chia book awakening healing light of the tao, Qi gung empowerment, As well as a few print outs including that link that was posted in response to this thread. i have been looking and cannot find a system. So I am blending alot of knowledge but sticking to the basics. Inner smile, little orbit, micro, macro, 8 vessles, absorbing earth and cosmic energy into the channles, navel gazing, nourishing qi, self accupressure ect. Trunk has some safe and gentle 5 element basics and gentle basic kan and li stuff that I might do. Im not messing with the really advanced stuff as I cant find a whole system. But Is there any particular order you can reccomend to me to follow? Trunks I did not see a sequence there in the thread you mentioned. Was there one there? Also That worries me a bit, does meditation on the 8 vessles weaken you? does it take energy from the regular meridians or does it energize them? god im so confused.

[Loke]

yeah ... So I am blending alot of knowledge but sticking to the basics. Inner smile, little orbit, micro, macro, 8 vessles, absorbing earth and cosmic energy into the channles, navel gazing, nourishing qi, self accupressure ect. ...

 

Am I remember correctly that you are a kundalini man, and to my question ? Is it so wise to mix (or move if it feels better) kundalini energi and qi in the same way? Correct me if I am wrong but didnt the founder of KAP die very "young" (60+)? My aunt die at 94 and she only read the Bible...

[Ya Mu]

Hi Ramon,

James MacRitchie has a great set of Eight Extraordinary Vessels QiGong exercises.

He's put it all up free online.

 

Global Qi Project

 

All the best,

Adeha

 

I'll second this. Jim probably knows as much about the 8 extraordinary vessels as anyone alive. On top of that he is a heckuva nice guy.

[erdweir]

yeah I was going to follow mantak chia's but started to see he has a few dangers in his system and its incomplete. Cant afford micheal winn becuase he does not have anything low cost. Right now what I have at home is A whole bunch of stuff from trunks site. A mantak chia book awakening healing light of the tao, Qi gung empowerment, As well as a few print outs including that link that was posted in response to this thread. i have been looking and cannot find a system. So I am blending alot of knowledge but sticking to the basics. Inner smile, little orbit, micro, macro, 8 vessles, absorbing earth and cosmic energy into the channles, navel gazing, nourishing qi, self accupressure ect. Trunk has some safe and gentle 5 element basics and gentle basic kan and li stuff that I might do. Im not messing with the really advanced stuff as I cant find a whole system. But Is there any particular order you can reccomend to me to follow? Trunks I did not see a sequence there in the thread you mentioned. Was there one there? Also That worries me a bit, does meditation on the 8 vessles weaken you? does it take energy from the regular meridians or does it energize them? god im so confused.

 

I dont think there is any real problem with trying to open up these channels, but that is just my experience. I had much more trouble opening up my spine. working on the limbs didnt weaken me at all, it made me feel more balanced. Now as I am getting deeper into it I find that I am starting to encounter allot of tension in my legs, which didnt happen at first.

 

Some people say you need to open up the channels in the arms and legs so you can sit in the lotus of extended periods without going numb. This goes along with the old story about Damo at the Shaolin temple being concerned with the monks getting weak from constant meditation. There is a brief description of it here but i find it a bit confusing, you have to read it several times over:

link

 

Mantak Chia's system has allot of problems with it but many of the basics are common to allot of Taoist practices. The stuff in Healing Light is pretty safe compared to allot of it. Opening up the channels in the legs helps you absorb earth energy, and I would suggest doing grounding exercises which those channels are helpful for too. One thing I am struggling with now and Mantak Chia doesnt stress very much is stillness.

 

The Iron Shirt stuff and bone marrow washing are supposedly more dangerous. and the Kan and Li as well. I would say wait until you have the basics covered and can afford a teacher. I was doing some five element stuff and all kinds of weird things started happening to me that I couldnt explain. It kind of spooked me. Michael Winn also admitted on his forum a few years ago that Chia had never done the Kan and Li. I would ignore what he has published about it.

Edited June 2, 2009 by erdweir

[Ramon25]

Am I remember correctly that you are a kundalini man, and to my question ? Is it so wise to mix (or move if it feels better) kundalini energi and qi in the same way? Correct me if I am wrong but didnt the founder of KAP die very "young" (60+)? My aunt die at 94 and she only read the Bible...

I dont get it what do you mean. I am not trying to move the kundalini energy. I am not only doing this for longevity im trying to balance out my spiritual life. Re you saying the a "kundalini man" Should not be doing alot of qi work? because it can cause some sort of problem maybe? You know weirdly enough I have been getting that same feeling. That maybe I should stick to simpler stuff. Breathing exercises, inner smile, lower dantein work,twin hearts meditation, dantien balancing, accupressure, grounding ect. Just energy work but not activaley trying to stick kundalini into a specific flow. Any thoughts?

 

Edweir thanks for the thourough response.

[gendao]

I dont get it what do you mean. I am not trying to move the kundalini energy. I am not only doing this for longevity im trying to balance out my spiritual life. Re you saying the a "kundalini man" Should not be doing alot of qi work? because it can cause some sort of problem maybe? You know weirdly enough I have been getting that same feeling. That maybe I should stick to simpler stuff. Breathing exercises, inner smile, lower dantein work,twin hearts meditation, dantien balancing, accupressure, grounding ect. Just energy work but not activaley trying to stick kundalini into a specific flow. Any thoughts?

Actually, opening the chong mai (thrusting vessel) = awakening the kundalini

[Creation]

That maybe I should stick to simpler stuff. Breathing exercises, inner smile, lower dantein work,twin hearts meditation, dantien balancing, accupressure, grounding ect. Just energy work but not activaley trying to stick kundalini into a specific flow. Any thoughts?

YES YES YES! Do exactly this! It's important to have a foundation for more advanced chi circulation type stuff (if you're into that in the first place) and you should only do that stuff if you have a teacher anyway.

[Ramon25]

Well thanks for the encouragment! It makes me feel better kknowing i will be doing something that is better for me. Hopefully i can find balance I habe beeen struggling with kundalini for a few years. Creation These are some of the things I alos plan On doing Any comments? should I just oush foward.

6 Healing sounds

om mani padme hum- mantra

bone breathing

simple bascis stuff trunks has laid out on jis site like, 5 element/organ stuff> its really basic simple gentle stuff Like focusing on connecting the heart and small intestine with attention to there already existing connection.

Gate breathing (palms,feet,crown, perineum)

Some simple bagua

water meditation (cleansing the body with water visualization)

Pulsing

 

thanks creation, any suggestions besides this

[freeform]

Well thanks for the encouragment! It makes me feel better kknowing i will be doing something that is better for me. Hopefully i can find balance I habe beeen struggling with kundalini for a few years. Creation These are some of the things I alos plan On doing Any comments? should I just oush foward.

6 Healing sounds

om mani padme hum- mantra

bone breathing

simple bascis stuff trunks has laid out on jis site like, 5 element/organ stuff> its really basic simple gentle stuff Like focusing on connecting the heart and small intestine with attention to there already existing connection.

Gate breathing (palms,feet,crown, perineum)

Some simple bagua

water meditation (cleansing the body with water visualization)

Pulsing

 

thanks creation, any suggestions besides this

 

Wow - that's a lot of 'stuff' for a 'basic' set...

 

You can actually open the microcosmic and macrocosmic orbits very effectively with just 5 animal frolics - and in fact this would be a far safer way, IMO, than doing pulsing, gate breathing, bone breathing, water meditation etc...

 

I would recommend really simplifying down to - inner smile in the morning a LOT of 5 animal movements in the day... and 6 sounds in the evening...

 

Don't get too worked up over the visualization aspect... the key is to FEEL, really experience each 'phase' of the 5 elements... and the flow that occurs... with 5 animals you're trying to embody the spirit of the animal... it's like channelling the elemental energy in a kind of shamanic way... make the practice your own.

 

Don't over-complicate things - the seemingly 'simple' exercises have a huge effect if you go deep into them... far greater effect than if you start doing lots of different disjointed things... simplify, simplify, simplify! and ENJOY it... don't do it out of duty or to achieve some aim, but out of the joy that it brings you to be doing it.

[Ramon25]

Well thanks for the response i will look in the frolics. By hua to right? but I really do feel All the above mentioned is pretty basic safe stuff. I like to explore, and if i dont do pretty powerful stuff even if that power comes from several weaker things i cant balance my self out. Also If you look at the KAP curriculum you see they have alot of stuff. Im not in KAP cant afford it as im 19 and out of work right now. I think kundalini is giving me a brake so I can balance this all out and find the right practices. But I have talked to Santiago and he does alot of stuff and has balanced himself out so im trying to take some of his advice. Oh Im not going to try to directly focus on opening the orbit withn what I mentioned its more just for overall maintence of the etheric body and spirtual life. Thanks for all the responses everyone

Edited June 2, 2009 by Ramon25

[Trunk]

Trunk I did not see a sequence there in the thread you mentioned. Was there one there?

As long as you are basically healthy, order doesn't matter with that setup. Just work through the 6 channels at your own pace, allow time for your body to process as you see fit. Occasionally use the pts for the 8 extra when you have surplus to store away deep.

[Ramon25]

Sorry if im being a bone head trunks but i am lost. Are you talking about the 6 paired meridans you have on that link? Also are you saying to Only do the 8 extra channels when you have a surplus of energy and instead focus on the regular accupuncture channles, the basic ones on the skin that correspond to the organs? I need it laid down nice and thick.

[Creation]

Freeform: Who is your source for the five animal frolics? Michael Winn?

 

Actually, opening the chong mai (thrusting vessel) = awakening the kundalini

I'm not so sure. I imagine K arising will open the thrusting channel, but OTOH one can get chi flowing in the thrusting channel quite apart from a K arousal.

 

Ramon:

I don't think I am too qualified to advise you other that tell you I think a "back to basics" or "building the foundation" approach is a good idea. Really try to quiet the mind, connect to your physical, energetic and emotional bodies, then dissolve the negative and cultivate the positive. Whatever helps you do this and whatever is done with this intention is probably OK. So for example, inner smile, secret smile, five element (Chinese and Indian) practices, any kind of stillness meditation (focusing on feeling the body, feeling the breath, and the lower field are good, though a simple mantra is better for me if my mind is racing) done sitting or standing, relaxed and natural breath regulation. Bone breathing is something that stands out as something you might want to save for later.

 

With awakened Kundalini, you will have to be extra careful about overdoing any of these practices. Learning to sink your energy from your head to your neck to your chest, etc. all the way down to your feet and from there into the earth would be a really great skill to have.

 

Best regards,

Tyler

[Trunk]

Are you talking about the 6 paired meridans you have on that link?

Correct. "6 Channel Theory" sees the 12 regular channels as 6. It's a very balanced way of applying self-acupressure. (And simple. )

 

Also are you saying to Only do the 8 extra channels when you have a surplus of energy and instead focus on the regular acupuncture channels, the basic ones on the skin that correspond to the organs?

Correct.

1. Open the regular channels.

2. When those are going nicely and you are feeling abundant, work on the acupoints for the 8 extra.

3. Repeat.

(and take time off as you see fit)

 

Feel free to experiment and so forth, but the above 1-2-3 is the basic layout. It puts your body through a fair amount of work, so pace yourself: be sensitive to your own body's needs. Once you've cycled through the 6 channels (which, if you do one every other day or so, might take a couple of weeks) then take at least a week off. Maybe several, or even a month or more if you like. Tinker with various points here & there in the mean-time. Go to other practices, etc. Then come back to the 6 and do it again.

 

While movement qi gong and still practices are good & helpful, it is my opinion that it's unlikely that you'll really open all the channels sufficiently (especially whichever ones are stubborn for you specifically) without a thorough approach to self-massaging the channels - such as the one that I just mentioned.

 

cheers,

Trunk

 

~ edit ~

More resources in the massage section of alchemicaltaoism.com.

Edited June 3, 2009 by Trunk

[Ramon25]

Thanks trunks. Hey what about mentally going through the channels? Well nei gung in addition to the accupressure. I have a book called qi gung empowerment that has an exercise called the 14 meridian circulation that looks similar but is done with yi. It goes through 14 channels and 108 accupoints. I have been feeling kind of hesitent about working with the channles lateley though, feeling I should keep to simpler stuff and do it with the accupressure. Hey that bone breathing link to the healing dao on your site is not working> just thought id let you know incase you were not aware of it.

So trunks what would you say of this practice, easing off the heavy yi circulations?

Joint mobility

inner smile

various breathing exercises

spinal breathing

accupressure

grounding

yi swallows chi

bone breathing (possibly)

self massage, kidneys, vital organs, ect

Your 5 element stuff (great stuff)

cultivating the virtue's

om mani padme hum

Absorbing heavenly and earth energy

marrow washing (gentle)

bagua

Navel gazing/nourishing qi

alligning the the 3 dantiens

twin hearts meditation

 

I am trying to keep it balanced and take alot of what you have told me into account

[Trunk]

So trunks what would you say of this practice, ..?

You choose your practice routine; I won't do it for you. A lot of the education simply occurs through experience: You practice, observe results, and learn. The experience adds up. Just like learning anything else. Be patient with yourself. Steady as she goes.

[markern]

I dont get it what do you mean. I am not trying to move the kundalini energy. I am not only doing this for longevity im trying to balance out my spiritual life. Re you saying the a "kundalini man" Should not be doing alot of qi work? because it can cause some sort of problem maybe? You know weirdly enough I have been getting that same feeling. That maybe I should stick to simpler stuff. Breathing exercises, inner smile, lower dantein work,twin hearts meditation, dantien balancing, accupressure, grounding ect. Just energy work but not activaley trying to stick kundalini into a specific flow. Any thoughts?

 

Edweir thanks for the thourough response.

 

Sounds good but add some basic breath based meditation, zazen, vipassana, taoist stilness whatever. That will harmonize a lot of things and digest the more active stuff you do, get you deep and build concentration and awareness that will make everything else so much easier. Also do something very grounding from early on and you will avoid trouble.