What is a phenomenon?

[Siliconvalley1]

May your doubts fall away and true insight arise.

Oh, she wishes to stick around forever.

 

I have no Ishta Deva anymore though it used to be Shiva and I don't go to any Guru Kula's or Ashrams anymore because I have renounced eternalism/theism/monism. Though I might go see Amachi because it's fine to hang out with the God's as long as I don't get caught up in their ideas about reality. Good energy is good energy.

 

 

You have no clue what you talk of do you?

 

Guhyasamaja Tantra is the oldest Vajrayana scripture, probably what Asanga based his teachings on. Yidam or Ishta Devata is a concept that Vajrayana borrowed with twists and turns from Hinduism. The Kula is no Guru-kula but one of the five Dhyani Buddha (a term someone again came up with later) - or the five Tathagatas to which every Vajracharya belongs. I assume you know they represent the five "pure" passions and the associated symbolism.

 

Kulam proktam pancha eva - states Guhyasamaja Tantra. Time to google and get back

Edited June 24, 2009 by Siliconvalley1

[Vajrahridaya]

Edited June 24, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[dwai]

Buddhism is beyond nihilism and eternalism.

 

Dependent origination neither posits an eternally self sustaining substance, nor does it deny relative existence.

 

May your doubts fall away and true insight arise.

Oh, she wishes to stick around forever.

 

Consciousness arises due to causes and conditions as well, but de-compounds when it's dependently originated nature is realized, thus it shines all around, experientially free and liberated even from itself.

 

There is nothing that things arise from and pass away into, that's why things are inherently liberated, because there is no self essence behind anything.

 

"Because this arises, that arises" in an endless and beginningless chain.

 

thats where you are wrong...consciousness simply is...a non-phenomenon. The endless and beginning-less chain that you mention is Brahman/Consciousness/Atman. All that arises and falls are phenomena, objects of this consciousness.

 

We are back to square one.

 

the 31 planes of existence you mention are all super-impositions on nirguna brahman and all pilfred from "hindu" pauranic stories. tsk tsk!

Edited June 24, 2009 by dwai

[Vajrahridaya]

You have no clue what you talk of do you?

 

Guhyasamaja Tantra is the oldest Vajrayana scripture, probably what Asanga based his teachings on. Yidam or Ishta Devata is a concept that Vajrayana borrowed with twists and turns from Hinduism. The Kula is no Guru-kula but one of the five Dhyani Buddha (a term someone again came up with later) - or the five Tathagatas to which every Vajracharya belongs. I assume you know they represent the five "pure" passions and the associated symbolism.

 

Kulam proktam pancha eva - states Guhyasamaja Tantra. Time to google and get back

 

Um, Mr. Ad-Hom...

 

Yes, I've read the Guhyasamaja Tantra and some Highest Yoga Tantra scriptures. Thank you. I didn't know your context as you were obviously not clear. I thought you were talking about the Shankara Kulas or Ashrams which there are 4, one on each point of India. I thought you were referring to my past practice in Advaita Vedanta and Shaivism.

 

I practice Dzogchen, so you should know that I just see all of it as Samantabhadra. It's all symbolism for how dependent origination works.

 

Actually Vajrayana comes straight from the celestial realms of highly realized beings. Hinduism is more than likely a divine purchase from the Buddhas.

 

 

 

 

thats where you are wrong...consciousness simply is...a non-phenomenon. The endless and beginning-less chain that you mention is Brahman/Consciousness/Atman. All that arises and falls are phenomena, objects of this consciousness.

 

We are back to square one.

 

the 31 planes of existence you mention are all super-impositions on nirguna brahman and all pilfred from "hindu" pauranic stories. tsk tsk!

 

Well, this is why your Hindu and I'm Buddhist. The two shall never agree. They are completely different way's of seeing how cosmos works.

 

The 31 planes of existence were put together before the Puranas or most of the Upanishads were written in the hundreds of years B.C.

Edited June 25, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[Siliconvalley1]

Edited June 24, 2009 by Siliconvalley1

[Vajrahridaya]

Edited June 24, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[Siliconvalley1]

While I can't stop laughing at how childish you can sound at times... gods sleeping, waking up...remains of old buddhas - Don't you see that such mythology exists within every culture? And probably the Atlanteans would say Buddhism picked remains of their stuff and mis-interpreted them ...

 

Can you point me to any hymn from Aranyaka or Brahmana in any of the Vedas that speak of Gods fighting among themselves? It is only the Vajrayanists who went haywire and depicted Hindu gods and goddesses as submissive to the Buddhist deifications. That would have to be the cultural animosity that existed in those days and a little study of any historical account of Vajrayana is enough to realize that ... there are several Buddhists who don't really care for mantras and mandalas of Vajrayana as they accuse them to be stealings from the Hindu ... speaking of fighting, can we remember E-sangha please?

 

So where does Jesus Christ, Prophet Muhammud, the African Shamans and others fit into this big picture which only Tibetans understood - according to you?

Edited June 24, 2009 by Siliconvalley1

[Vajrahridaya]

While I can't stop laughing at how childish you can sound at times... gods sleeping, waking up...remains of old buddhas - Don't you see that such mythology exists within every culture? And probably the Atlanteans would say Buddhism picked remains of their stuff and mis-interpreted them ...

 

So where does Jesus Christ, Prophet Muhammud, the African Shamans and others fit into this big picture which only Tibetans understood - according to you?

 

I just posted the 31 planes of existence. All these Theisms fit in there somewhere, depending on the depth of meditative stability, and insight.

 

What's childish is you constantly resorting to Ad-Hom's. Which also shows how threatened you are.

 

You've never been to celestial realms? Your meditation must be sorely lacking. Of course, your going to call my experiences imagination. Which is exactly how all without deep meditative experience protect their egos.

 

Projection of limitation based upon one's own experiential limits.

[Siliconvalley1]

I just posted the 31 planes of existence. All these Theisms fit in there somewhere, depending on the depth of meditative stability, and insight.

 

What's childish is you constantly resorting to Ad-Hom's. Which also shows how threatened you are.

 

You've never been to celestial realms? Your meditation must be sorely lacking. Of course, your going to call my experiences imagination. Which is exactly how all without deep meditative experience protect their egos.

 

Projection of limitation based upon one's own experiential limits.

 

ok

[Vajrahridaya]

 

Can you point me to any hymn from Aranyaka or Brahmana in any of the Vedas that speak of Gods fighting among themselves?

 

Mr. Ad-Hom,

 

The Puranas talk about fighting Gods. Also, these are psychological archetypes as well as actual realms that can be directly experienced after death or during meditation. It's all just as real or unreal as this realm. There are so many places that a consciousness can have an experience.

 

I guess you don't much believe in the after life either?

[Siliconvalley1]

Mr. Ad-Hom,

 

The Puranas talk about fighting Gods. Also, these are psychological archetypes as well as actual realms that can be directly experienced after death or during meditation. It's all just as real or unreal as this realm. There are so many places that a consciousness can have an experience.

 

I guess you don't much believe in the after life either?

 

 

I certainly do but not the cock and bull stories you dish out here based on your lack of study and the "direct" experience the level of which changes faster in your own words than Verdesi's achievement levels

 

Which purana talks about fighting gods? And in some instances, the end of story is: the fighting, like creation or something else - was a lila of the One Essence to show these are but projections of that one essence and nothing more than illusion... The puranas clarify that everywhere ...

 

Take for instance, Hevajra Tantra or Mahabodhi tantra - there are stories of fights between Bodhisatvas and Hindu deities, between dhammapalas themselves and so on. The bloody battle between Kali and Akshobhya is described at length in 34 verses and Akshobhya is declared the winner. It is for anyone to see the background behind such tales! I know historicity is not your perspective but common sense should be sometimes. One can even over stretch and attach philosophical significance to these, as we all want to make ourselves believe that every thing said in old scriptures is a revelation (call it from God, call it from celestial realm, fundamentally it is all same to an impartial observer) - but some of them are simply stories... Yes, their use could be in deriving some inspiration for one's practice, but taking them literally and getting fanatic is IMO crazy!

 

And asking for a specific reference from the Veda makes me Mr. Ad-hom. Why would you have to Google for that if you have experienced it all? Well you did state somewhere you had glimpses but did not really reach the pinnacle or something ... not that I take you seriously

Edited June 24, 2009 by Siliconvalley1

[Vajrahridaya]

I certainly do but not the cock and bull stories you dish out here based on your lack of study and the "direct" experience the level of which changes faster in your own words than Verdesi's achievement levels

 

 

These are stories from scriptures.

 

Why are you always coming across so threatened?

 

Which purana talks about fighting gods? And in some instances, the end of story is: the fighting, like creation or something else - was a lila of the One Essence to show these are but projections of that one essence and nothing more than illusion... The puranas clarify that everywhere ...

 

Yes, they do at times just appear as metaphors. But these realms also do exist and there are Jealous gods.

 

Take for instance, Hevajra Tantra or Mahabodhi tantra - there are stories of fights between Bodhisatvas and Hindu deities, between dhammapalas themselves and so on. The bloody battle between Kali and Akshobhya is described at length in 34 verses and Akshobhya is declared the winner. It is for anyone to see the background behind such tales! I know historicity is not your perspective but common sense should be sometimes. One can even over stretch and attach philosophical significance to these, as we all want to make ourselves believe that every thing said in old scriptures is a revelation (call it from God, call it from celestial realm, fundamentally it is all same to an impartial observer) - but some of them are simply stories... Yes, their use could be in deriving some inspiration for one's practice, but taking them literally and getting fanatic is IMO crazy!

 

I like history.

 

I've read many of these stories and some can just be metaphor and some can actually be real occurrences in other realms. I been to some realms, so I don't dismiss things in the same way that you do. I guess I'm crazy.

 

And asking for a specific reference from the Veda makes me Mr. Ad-hom. Why would you have to Google for that if you have experienced it all? Well you did state somewhere you had glimpses but did not really reach the pinnacle or something ... not that I take you seriously

 

You should take yourself less seriously. Your Mr. Ad-Hom because you keep attacking me personally and not really arguing the point.

 

Also, I've read these texts at some point but don't have specifics memorized and no I have not experienced it all. But, I was speaking that I know enough to know what Hinduism teaches and how it's different from what Buddhism teaches.

 

Great scholars back me up on this. The Dalai Lama backs me up on this and should I just name the vast amount of Buddhists that back me up on this historically and presently or are you better and more meditatively developed and educated than all these beings?

 

Shankaracharya didn't feel that they taught the same thing either. So... I don't get why you and Dwai and Goldisheavy are having a hard time understanding this truth? Oh yes... well, I do understand why.

 

It's ok...

 

There are plenty of Puranas that talk about how the God's.... Vishnu, Shiva and Brahma fight with each other over who's the real creator. Different sects, Shaivite, Vaishnavites, etc. take up the Purana where their God won the battle and call it revealed scripture.

Edited June 25, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[mat black]

Here's another chart of the planes of existence if anyone is interested.

In no way is this intended to 'supersede' the other one that was posted above, it's just in a different format and from the Avatamsaka Sutra

 

Chart Of Samsara

The Realm Of Birth And Death

Divided into the Three Realms of Existence

 

http://www.avatamsaka.ca/samsara_chart.pdf

[dwai]

Um, Mr. Ad-Hom...

 

Yes, I've read the Guhyasamaja Tantra and some Highest Yoga Tantra scriptures. Thank you. I didn't know your context as you were obviously not clear. I thought you were talking about the Shankara Kulas or Ashrams which there are 4, one on each point of India. I thought you were referring to my past practice in Advaita Vedanta and Shaivism.

 

I practice Dzogchen, so you should know that I just see all of it as Samantabhadra. It's all symbolism for how dependent origination works.

 

Actually Vajrayana comes straight from the celestial realms of highly realized beings. Hinduism is more than likely a divine purchase from the Buddhas.

Well, this is why your Hindu and I'm Buddhist. The two shall never agree. They are completely different way's of seeing how cosmos works.

 

The 31 planes of existence were put together before the Puranas or most of the Upanishads were written in the hundreds of years B.C.

 

 

your knowledge of indian history is even worse than your knowledge of buddhism.

 

like I had observed earlier, you could almost pass off as funny...almost.

 

You don't agree with what I'm saying because you are Buddhist. I am saying that Buddhism (not the parody that you claim to practice) and Vedanta point to the same Higher Truth.

 

Oh why did I engage with this "rhymes with hazy" person again? karma!

 

 

Hugely different.

 

One transcends a source and the other posits one.

The Vedas are more than likely mis-interpreted left overs from one of the previous Buddhas, then deified by the Gods in Brahma realms. Bon is also supposedly a left over from the previous Buddha as well.

 

Believe what you wish, but this is what Tibetans feel and have texts saying, as this is also what Mahayana states.

 

It's not that mantras are wrong and ceremonies, etc., but Vedic is a mis-interpretation of how the cosmos works. The Buddhists are from the same place and see sanskrit as pure vibration, but it is all cast in a different light that makes all the difference between being caught in a formless realm and being liberated.

 

As the Buddha said, "I have found an ancient path", he also said, "This teaching did not exist here at this time before I taught it".

 

The Vedic Gods were all just merely first borns out of the formless realms during the new cosmic cycle, and they thought they were sleeping and when they awoke, the universe manifested and so they thought that they did it. So, they all fight over who's the one true God.

 

Buddhism just bypasses all this B.S.

 

 

Cosmic comedy of consciousness!!

 

Silicon,

 

I don't see how anyone can respond to this jester with any seriousness. He has loaded himself up with so much new-agey BS that it's leaving me with a hollow, empty feeling (pun intended) for having actually tried to debate him with some seriousness.

 

These are stories from scriptures.

 

Why are you always coming across so threatened?

Yes, they do at times just appear as metaphors. But these realms also do exist and there are Jealous gods.

I like history.

 

I've read many of these stories and some can just be metaphor and some can actually be real occurrences in other realms. I been to some realms, so I don't dismiss things in the same way that you do. I guess I'm crazy.

You should take yourself less seriously. Your Mr. Ad-Hom because you keep attacking me personally and not really arguing the point.

 

Also, I've read these texts at some point but don't have specifics memorized and no I have not experienced it all. But, I was speaking that I know enough to know what Hinduism teaches and how it's different from what Buddhism teaches.

 

Great scholars back me up on this. The Dalai Lama backs me up on this and should I just name the vast amount of Buddhists that back me up on this historically and presently or are you better and more meditatively developed and educated than all these beings?

 

Shankaracharya didn't feel that they taught the same thing either. So... I don't get why you and Dwai and Goldisheavy are having a hard time understanding this truth? Oh yes... well, I do understand why.

 

It's ok...

 

There are plenty of Puranas that talk about how the God's.... Vishnu, Shiva and Brahma fight with each other over who's the real creator. Different sects, Shaivite, Vaishnavites, etc. take up the Purana where their God won the battle and call it revealed scripture.

 

Name one Purana which talks about Shiva, Vishnu and Brahma fighting. Per Puranic tradition, the functions of the trinity is very well established and defined.

 

Moreover, if you had even the slightest knowledge of Vedic scripture (beyond Wikipedia), you'd know that the Vedas are called Shruti (or Revelations) and Puranas are smriti (or memories). Veda came to the Rishis in deep meditation. Puranas are part mythology, part history.

 

I think Silicon and GIH are not really siding with me on the Vedanta = Buddhism thing, but they want to show you that your insistence that Buddhism is the best is wrong, that's all.

 

 

Puranas are not meant to be taken literally. There are metaphorical/allegorical inferences one can deduce from them, but that's the extent of it.

[Vajrahridaya]

your knowledge of indian history is even worse than your knowledge of buddhism.

 

The first Upanishad might have been written around the 500's B.C. Most likely oral since before then as it means sitting with the teacher.

 

The 31 planes model is directly from the early school of Buddhism, oral for a few hundred years but anyway... from around the time of the Buddha in the 500 or 600's B.C.

 

The first Puranas were written around the early centuries' C.E. though they were most likely oral since sometime in the early B.C.'s. mostly compiled by Valmiki and Vyasa.

 

 

 

like I had observed earlier, you could almost pass off as funny...almost.

 

Your insults keep proving your insecurity.

 

You don't agree with what I'm saying because you are Buddhist. I am saying that Buddhism (not the parody that you claim to practice) and Vedanta point to the same Higher Truth.

 

I already proved to you by quoting the Dalai Lama that he does not agree with you. Neither did Nagarjuna and neither did Shankaracharya.

 

Go to E-Sangha and ask some Mahayana and Theravadin monks that frequent the community what they think of your grossly mis-informed assumptions. You will be disappointed to find that they will agree with me. My understanding of Buddhist sutra is sound.

 

 

Cosmic comedy of consciousness!!

 

Silicon,

 

I don't see how anyone can respond to this jester with any seriousness. He has loaded himself up with so much new-agey BS that it's leaving me with a hollow, empty feeling (pun intended) for having actually tried to debate him with some seriousness.

 

Your view is not grounded in real examination of what Buddhism teaches and is not grounded in much meditative experience. Your hate and constant insulting of me because I challenge your understanding is a constant reminder of your own pride.

 

Name one Purana which talks about Shiva, Vishnu and Brahma fighting. Per Puranic tradition, the functions of the trinity is very well established and defined.

 

The story of the falling onto earth of the so called 5th Veda where Shiva chops the head off of Brahma.

 

How about that story from the Shiva Purana, where Brahma and Vishnu were fighting over who was the supreme creator, threatening to destroy the 3 worlds, and the different gods went to Shiva and he saved the 3 worlds by becoming a column of light that dissolved the weapons of Brahma and Vishnu into pure light. Brahma rode his vehicle and tried to find the bottom of this column but could not and Vishnu tried to find the top of it by flying on his vehicle, but could not. They came back and Shiva came out of the column of light and all the gods praised Shiva as the supreme being of the cosmos. There are plenty of stories in various Puranas that talk about how Shiva and Brahma are subordinate to Vishnu and it's just all over the place. There are so many Puranas and I don't remember which one is what. But, I used to chant parts of the Skanda Purana every single day for an hour and a half as one part of my morning practice and I chanted it faithfully every day for many years including the Rudram, the Bhagavad Gita, the Vishnu Sahasranam. But I chanted parts of the Skanda Purana every single day without fail. I played Vishnu in a play of the Mahabharata. I know way more than you think about your religion.

 

Moreover, if you had even the slightest knowledge of Vedic scripture (beyond Wikipedia), you'd know that the Vedas are called Shruti (or Revelations) and Puranas are smriti (or memories). Veda came to the Rishis in deep meditation. Puranas are part mythology, part history.

 

I do know this. The Buddha still didn't think the Vedas were to be regarded as a true revelation. It's in the Pali Suttas. My Hindu Guru taught me that some of the Puranas actually happened in celestial realms as well as of course the Ramayana and the Mahabharata happened here on Earth. Both of which I have read as well as other Puranas.

 

I think Silicon and GIH are not really siding with me on the Vedanta = Buddhism thing, but they want to show you that your insistence that Buddhism is the best is wrong, that's all.

Puranas are not meant to be taken literally. There are metaphorical/allegorical inferences one can deduce from them, but that's the extent of it.

 

The best path is the path that helps you evolve towards Buddhadharma, the true and complete vehicle.

I side with the Dalai Lama, Nagarjuna and Sakya Pandita as well as Gotama Buddha himself who taught that teachings that appear in such vehicles as Vedanta lead only to higher re-birth but not complete liberation.

This is a very prominent view in Buddhism that most every single Buddhist is aware of because it's directly from the texts in the Pali Cannon as well as later teachings in the Mahayana. It's only new agers or Dark Zen people who mis-comprehend the Buddhist teachings in the way that you do.

Edited June 25, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[Sunya]

when I was in India I took a class on Hindu Mythology. It was so ridiculous reading all the stories about Gods fighting, and really made me appreciate the Buddhist teachings on the realm of the Gods who are full of pride. I wondered how can people read these stories and worship these beings who seem as selfish as humans? ::shrug::

 

that was a long time ago, but really,,, Hindu myth is full of gods fighting and competing

 

your knowledge of indian history is even worse than your knowledge of buddhism.

 

 

You don't agree with what I'm saying because you are Buddhist. I am saying that Buddhism (not the parody that you claim to practice) and Vedanta point to the same Higher Truth.

 

and yet no Buddhist would agree with you, and neither would Sankara. so you have a better knowledge of Buddhism than Dalai Lama and all other Buddhists, and even Sankara who wasn't a Buddhist but argued against Buddhists. congratulations, that is quite an accomplishment.

 

I don't see how anyone can respond to this jester with any seriousness. He has loaded himself up with so much new-agey BS that it's leaving me with a hollow, empty feeling (pun intended) for having actually tried to debate him with some seriousness.

 

lol Vajra is far from new-agey, he's actually pretty orthodox when it comes to religion. it is the new agers who try to lump all religions into one and say they point to the Same Higher Truth, not the orthodox who understand the differences in religions, their views, and their realizations. i used to be pretty damn new-agey.. and i'm still a lot more new agey than Vajra. New Agey isn't really an insult anyway, I think its beautiful and wonderful that such a movement is arising in the West where people are questioning and earning for spiritual experience.

 

 

Here's another chart of the planes of existence if anyone is interested.

In no way is this intended to 'supersede' the other one that was posted above, it's just in a different format and from the Avatamsaka Sutra

 

Chart Of Samsara

The Realm Of Birth And Death

Divided into the Three Realms of Existence

 

http://www.avatamsaka.ca/samsara_chart.pdf

 

 

thank you for posting this Mat

 

 

 

 

btw, whoever is comparing orthodox Buddhism to fundamentalist Islam is an idiot. running out of insults aren't you?

 

not one blood has been shed in the history of Buddhism, its a peaceful religion. it's not about worshiping our God and doing our rituals or else you go to hell. No. it's about recognizing that grasping for an ultimate state or essence leads to suffering not liberation. that is all. that is the Buddhist view and Buddhists will never budge on this. it makes complete logical sense if you study why grasping leads to suffering and how every other religion have some sort of subtle, or not so subtle, grasping in their ultimate realization or truth.

Edited June 25, 2009 by mikaelz

[Vajrahridaya]

i used to be pretty damn new-agey.. and i'm still a lot more new agey than Vajra. New Agey isn't really an insult anyway, I think its beautiful and wonderful that such a movement is arising in the West where people are questioning and earning for spiritual experience.

thank you for posting this

 

New Agers smell like Gouda. Oh! Dwai was right after all, I am a jester!!

 

No really, it is a good start to the study of spirituality because it urges one to study everything without bias.

 

Yes, I as well used to be pretty New Agey and thought just as Dwai does, that all paths lead to one Highest Truth. It's a very Hindu dogma.

 

But yes, I am a stuck up, tight assed orthodox Rime student of Vajrayana.

 

Oh well.

[Siliconvalley1]

Edited June 25, 2009 by Siliconvalley1

[Vajrahridaya]

 

Does no one think any more and take Buddhas, Sleeping and Waking Gods and stuff and base their views on such dogmas! It's unfortunate ...

 

 

Does no one meditate anymore and experience for oneself the truth of celestial realms and cosmic experiences transcending the 5 senses and the limitations of the physical body?

 

There are realms of conscious experience that far transcend your limited stuck on earth projection.

 

There is still no conclusive evidence that say's Hindu Tantra pre-dates Buddhist Tantra as they both have influenced each other as many practitioners changed from one to the other and they both arose in the same places. The dates for Vajrayana keep getting pushed back further and further. There in fact was just a new find that pushes it back to the 200's I think? Nagarjuna was supposed to be a tantric master himself.

 

The importance is not in the methods which in many ways are very similar but in the view. The view of Buddhism differs from that of Hinduism so the outcome is different.

 

You go ahead and think that Vajrayana is influenced by Shaiva Tantra. I've read both sides and both sides have their proofs. It doesn't really matter, what matters is that the view is different, thus the outcome is different.

[Siliconvalley1]

Does no one meditate anymore and experience for oneself the truth of celestial realms and cosmic experiences transcending the 5 senses and the limitations of the physical body?

 

There are realms of conscious experience that far transcend your limited stuck on earth projection.

 

There is still no conclusive evidence that say's Hindu Tantra pre-dates Buddhist Tantra as they both have influenced each other as many practitioners changed from one to the other and they both arose in the same places. The dates for Vajrayana keep getting pushed back further and further. There in fact was just a new find that pushes it back to the 200's I think? Nagarjuna was supposed to be a tantric master himself.

 

The importance is not in the methods which in many ways are very similar but in the view. The view of Buddhism differs from that of Hinduism so the outcome is different.

 

You go ahead and think that Vajrayana is influenced by Shaiva Tantra. I've read both sides and both sides have their proofs. It doesn't really matter, what matters is that the view is different, thus the outcome is different.

 

As expected, yours is always a rant and never a reply ... you can do better than that... or can you?

 

A very lame technique you and Mikaelz adopt for debate ..

 

- You insist on facts and dates

- When they are provided, you speak of direct experience

- And then when Zen angle is brought in, you say they rely too much on direct experience

- You claim at one place you did not "experience" it all in the "all life practice" of Hinduism you did in the US at a New Age guru's Ashram, but continue to say - you have seen it all

- The amount of time you spend saying the same thing over and over shows how much of practice you actually do - not that that's my problem.

 

So, make up your mind as to what your stance is. You dilly-dally on everything right from Taoism to Veda to Zen to some Rinpoche ... So, traces of direct experience in you have only one indication - your own claim! And it is evident how believable that is ... It is as Mikaelz seems to quote it.. Or he feels bound to do it as he invited you here to save his ass...

Edited June 25, 2009 by Siliconvalley1

[Vajrahridaya]

lame ass class I took somewhere.

 

Mr. Ad-Hom who knows what the class taught and who the teacher was.

 

This kind of talk reveals more about your insecurity and pride more than how bad someone class was.

 

It might have been a very good class with a very good teacher. Classes do ask that you study and write papers.

 

SV, you obviously lack meditative experience.

[Siliconvalley1]

Mr. Ad-Hom who knows what the class taught and who the teacher was.

 

This kind of talk reveals more about your insecurity and pride more than how bad someone class was.

 

It might have been a very good class with a very good teacher. Classes do ask that you study and write papers.

 

SV, you obviously lack meditative experience.

 

I repeat the same question again... can you come up with at least a better rant? All you got to say is this? Even I think you can do slightly better... even if you've abandoned all rational thinking

 

And of the different issues I pointed out, you choose to reply to the class taught part... of course, simple and can get away with any lame answer... suits your study and direct experience

Edited June 25, 2009 by Siliconvalley1

[Vajrahridaya]

As expected, yours is always a rant and never a reply ... you can do better than that... or can you?

 

Subjective rant.

A very lame technique you and Mikaelz adopt for debate ..

 

Your constant Ad-Homs are lame.

 

 

- You insist on facts and dates

 

Yes, we list dates and quotes at times. ?? You don't much, you mostly just insult people.

- When they are provided, you speak of direct experience

 

Sure, sometimes.

 

- And then when Zen angle is brought in, you say they rely too much on direct experience

 

No, I say they sit too much in my opinion. Experience happens at any time with vipassana. They also seem to reify emptiness sometimes. Not all of the Zensters do this. Plenty I like and agree with. I don't agree with every Vajrayana so called Master either.

 

- You claim at one place you did not "experience" it all in the "all life practice" of Hinduism you did in the US at a New Age guru's Ashram, but continue to say - you have seen it all

 

Muktananda was very orthodox and a good scholar of Advaita Vedanta who spent years studying at a Shankara Math or Ashram. More baseless Ad-Hom's... Only those threatened attack.

 

I have not seen it all, but I have seen what I have seen. Wow... you are just the Ad-Hom wizard, aren't you? "Attack, attack... must attack the person."

 

- The amount of time you spend saying the same thing over and over shows how much of practice you actually do - not that that's my problem.

 

Yes, I don't do as much sitting practice as I used to.

So, make up your mind as to what your stance is. You dilly-dally on everything right from Taoism to Veda to Zen to some Rinpoche ... So, traces of direct experience in you have only one indication - your own claim! And it is evident how believable that is ... It is as Mikaelz seems to quote it.. Or he feels bound to do it as he invited you here to save his ass...

 

Your kind of an asshole. Seriously.

 

I repeat the same question again... can you come up with at least a better rant? All you got to say is this? Even I think you can do slightly better... even if you've abandoned all rational thinking

 

And of the different issues I pointed out, you choose to reply to the class taught part... of course, simple and can get away with any lame answer... suits your study and direct experience

 

More passing of gas?

 

p.s. I should have never spoken of my experiences. People are so insecure they just use it against you. More learning of lessons from online jerks.

Edited June 25, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[Siliconvalley1]

Subjective rant.

Your constant Ad-Homs are lame.

Yes, we list dates and quotes at times. ?? You don't much, you mostly just insult people.

Sure, sometimes.

No, I say they sit too much in my opinion. Experience happens at any time with vipassana. They also seem to reify emptiness sometimes. Not all of the Zensters do this. Plenty I like and agree with. I don't agree with every Vajrayana so called Master either.

Muktananda was very orthodox and a good scholar of Advaita Vedanta who spent years studying at a Shankara Math or Ashram. More baseless Ad-Hom's... Only those threatened attack.

 

I have not seen it all, but I have seen what I have seen. Wow... you are just the Ad-Hom wizard, aren't you? "Attack, attack... must attack the person."

Yes, I don't do as much sitting practice as I used to.

Your kind of an asshole. Seriously.

More passing of gas?

 

p.s. I should have never spoken of my experiences. People are so insecure they just use it against you. More learning of lessons from online jerks.

 

 

Hmmm.. finally the cover from compassion is lifted

 

Or is it traces of bloody Hindu deities left from your previously adopted and then abandoned half-way "life time" of Hindu practices that is bringing out the true you? So, finally the Bodhisattva cat - that likes to call everyone who does not agree an Mr. Ad-Hom - out of the bag? It's time you get more support from E-Sangha? Probably your accomplice is already working on that ...

 

Your logic is lamer than your statements ...

 

I and my buddy can shit on everyone - its fun

If someone tries to point some logic, I don't have a real reply - so I claim an 'attack' and scream like a teenage girl ...

 

When you fail to display even a minute level of sensibility on an online forum and try to step on everyone's neck, you will get kicked ... even if you scream and call names and claim of attacks and twist and turn and all that ... It's best you go back to watching that movie you were watching in "other realms". Or try not to shit on everyone else here like Mikaelz who thinks its his right to do that and run away. Naw, doesn't work that way mister...

Edited June 25, 2009 by Siliconvalley1

[Sunya]

what the fuck is wrong with you Silicon? have you not gotten laid today? I unblocked you because I felt bad, maybe I overreacted, but holy shit man. I see you shitting all over the place. YOU WIN! OK? is that what you want? I know your kind. I've seen your kind since I was a kid. angry, possessive, insecure, feels the need to assert himself and always has to be right. when authority is questioned, its HULK TIME! your ego is hanging out of your pocket, go pick it up and pretend like you're actually on a spiritual path of some sort.

Edited June 25, 2009 by mikaelz