Finding your 'I'-thought or 'I am'

[Matt]

Whatever you may have to do, watch your mind.

 

- Nisargadatta, p. 215, I AM THAT

Edited November 26, 2009 by Matt

[Aetherous]

In Taoism, a person's spirit tends to be drawn out towards the world, from its home in the heart, to the senses and brain...usually mostly the eyes. "Fire (spirit) moving upward." So Taoists draw the spirit back in to the center of the brain through various methods (one of which can be self enquiry), and then it can collect at its source in the heart through the central channel which connects the two.

 

It's one half of the foundation of alchemy.

 

For self enquiry methods, I like using the dropping or letting go method. Not sitting there asking, "Who am I?" or focusing on a feeling of beingness...but locating what you consider to be yourself in the moment, and dropping it because it's actually not who you are...and naturally the brain attempts to find the self again. Rinse and repeat. That's the method that has worked wonders for me...although I haven't done it a lot because I lack the motivation.

 

And red phoenix from Kunlun is amazing for this.

[de_paradise]

I tend to start with negating the body, and negating the thoughts that are currently going, and then as Scott mentioned, denying anything that the consciousness rests upon. Even qi or energetic activity, gets the not-self boot. There isnt really much more to it than that. The other day I used this meditation, and also going deeply relaxed, and found myself flying in an altered state of consciousness, another world.

 

So in sum, instead of whispering to myself to find myself, I like to negate whatever is there, because there is already a presupposition of looking for self within the negations, and it causes little brain noise.

[Uncle Screwtape]

Through my interactions I came to realise that the people I knew had some wildly differing and sometimes decidedly odd opinions of me. I would rail at this and my friends would laugh when I told them how others who claimed to know me had described me.

 

But it dawned on me that 'I' am like an empty space that is defined by the walls around it. None of my friends are right but none of them are wrong, either. To one person I am this, to another I am that. It depends who I am with, where I am and what the context is. Am I with friends or colleages? Am I working or at rest? Am I in my own environment or in a strange one? It isn't just that I am different each time but that the person perceiving me is different too.

 

This has really helped me to understand my interactions and to get on better in different situations with varying people. It has relaxed me a great deal, too.

 

I am not sure now if that answers your question. But it answers a question.

Edited June 4, 2009 by Uncle Screwtape

[simple traveller]

Good Day

 

All of this is based on definitions which stem from points of view from fixed points of reference. When you change your point of reference then your point of view changes and this the previous definition may no longer be valid thus you need to re evaluate your definition. We constantly define stuff and seek out definitions in our endless states on inquiry. You need not look very far to see this. This post is also a place where definitions are being sought. So If you see that definitions are based on points of view from points of reference and thus change when the points of reference and points of view change then you see that definitions are illusion. If definitions are illusion then nothing is anything and everything is everything else. Thus "I am, you are, we are".

 

Thank You

[Matt]

A relaxation of being naturally arises if one is not seduced into taking ideas to be truth. - Suzanne Segal

Edited November 26, 2009 by Matt

[Aetherous]

How do you drop it? When practicing this, do you see yourself as observing yourself?

 

You have to develop one pointed concentration first...the ability to meditate on one object. Then you become aware of your self, which can be anything that your perception assumes to be you. So at first, asking "who am I?" and trying to locate your true self is good. So you find what seems to be the true self.

 

Then you drop that, because it's not the true self.

 

Anything that you can be aware of could be said to be not-you. For instance, your arm isn't you...it can be cut off and you're still you. Or your thoughts can't be you, because they disappear and you're still yourself. So if you're aware of anything, negate it and leave it behind. All sensation, all mind stuff.

 

The perception will then go blank for a second, or try to pick up a new self. Just keep dropping and negating. Go super deep in consciousness, dissembling all of the different identifications.

 

You're doing it right when the self seems to shine from the heart, and when light shines in the inner vision. But those things should still be negated.

 

That's my view...I'm no expert. It takes experimentation. I suggest spending a few hours at a time.

[medic]

Could somebody define the Tao for me?

 

J/K

[alfa]

How is this different from the Socratic method?

[Unconditioned]

I have a bit of a different take on how to practice the self-inquiry method that Ramana taught. I think of it as a 'top-down' approach and similar to what others have said as you inquire "Who am I?" it leads to other questions.

 

Am I my body?

Am I my sensations? (I can feel my body who is feeling it?)

Am I my thoughts?

Am I the one observing the thoughts, sensations, body?

 

For me, I examined each of these questions deeply. Not in a 'no i'm not my body because ______ teacher says we're not for ______ reason'. I drew my own conclusions based on direct experience and the desire for an honest, true, answer. For example, when questioning if I were my sensations, I would focus my attention on them in a very alert way. I would touch things and see what was happening in me, I would feel what was going on.

 

This approach may not be for everyone but for me personally it challenged my conclusions on what I am which started me on my spiritual path.

 

Ultimately these questions are a negation technique. If you know everything you are not, then what is left is what you are.

 

The questioning allowed me to become aware of my own awareness, aware that we have the ability to be aware. When I saw this for the first time it was the most beautiful thing I've ever come across. The ability to be aware of awareness is a gift to us and it's amazing when you see what possibilities that has opened for us (humans).

 

Specifically the question that lead me there was "How am I able to feel/think all these things? How is it possible to know I'm thinking?" Then, just like when you figure out a riddle, out of nowhere the realization that we can be aware of our awareness came in.

 

All the best,

Nate

[doc benway]

Edited June 5, 2009 by xuesheng