Do Taoists REALLY Have Amazing Longevity?

[11:33]

Just wondering what you all think of all the mention of this or that Taoist is 130, or whatever. Do real Taoists actually live this long? Or is it some form of cultural exaggeration done to venerate the wise and elderly?

 

If they do live that long, then what do you think most contributes to that long life? Preferably with some evidence to back up the reason why you think it

 

One thing that concerns me are the monastic vegetarian even VEGAN diets. Vegan diets just plain aren't good for people. There's so much science to back this up, so for me it puts some of the Taoist stuff into question for me. Maybe these vegan diets are giving them amazing longevity, but making them very weak in the process? I know that calorie restriction is a known scientific method of extending lifespan, so maybe?

 

All the Best,

11:33

Edited June 6, 2009 by 11:33

[Ramon25]

Most of the stories I have heard concern martial arts, chi gung, breath work, Basic/gentled meditation, herbal and nutrition therapy, self massage, sex regulation. I have not heard stories of fancy methods extending life. Not making conclusions just saying what i have read/heard. I would seem that such a life style would promote quite a healthy life.

[froggie]

a diet without great kinds of plants is also not a great thing

[TTT]

Check master mantak chia, he is >65 and he looks like 40!

[EagerMind]

Check master mantak chia, he is >65 and he looks like 40!

 

That could be a combination of lifestyle and genetics. I look very young for my age even though I'm 29, I get mistaken for 18-22 all the time. Not to say I don't take care of myself but that wasn't always the case, I did a lot of bad stuff when I was younger (heavy drinking, heavy smoking, horrible eating habits, some recreational drug use). I also think a lot of asians have the genetics to look younger than they are!!!

[Uncle Screwtape]

Vegan diets just plain aren't good for people. There's so much science to back this up, so for me it puts some of the Taoist stuff into question for me.

 

I think any diet works together with other practices, such as chi kung.

 

Richard

[erdweir]

Practitioners of Taoist internal arts frequently live into their 90's, and what's more, they have good mobility, strength and clear minds well into their final years. This is common amongst masters of Tai Chi, Bagua, Xing Yi, and other internal martial arts, and also masters of Chi Kung, Nei Kung and Nei Dan. I have read some stories of Chi Kung that has made people obese and given them heart attacks, other weird stuff, but you have to wonder if they were practicing properly.

 

Sometimes you hear these stories of Taoist who are hundreds of years old, but I have never seen it well documented. But living to be close to 100 years old, with strength and vitality unusual for that age, yes, I would say that is well documented.

[Ramon25]

Also 11:33 one more thing i forgot to mention, chinese people are way more adapted to eatin vegeatation than most other races. their pancreas and salivary glads a bigger than most, so that might have something to do with the vegan diet. They In any case are a more evolved race as for the earth to survive we will all eventually need those gentic changes

 

Practitioners of Taoist internal arts frequently live into their 90's, and what's more, they have good mobility, strength and clear minds well into their final years. This is common amongst masters of Tai Chi, Bagua, Xing Yi, and other internal martial arts, and also masters of Chi Kung, Nei Kung and Nei Dan. I have read some stories of Chi Kung that has made people obese and given them heart attacks, other weird stuff, but you have to wonder if they were practicing properly.

 

Sometimes you hear these stories of Taoist who are hundreds of years old, but I have never seen it well documented. But living to be close to 100 years old, with strength and vitality unusual for that age, yes, I would say that is well documented.

 

Heart attacks, obesity, What? Thats new what are you reffering. I have read that intense packing and other dumb shit like that can screw you up.

[erdweir]

Heart attacks, obesity, What? Thats new what are you reffering. I have read that intense packing and other dumb shit like that can screw you up.

 

yeah I'm sorry but i cant remember exactly where I read about the obesity thing, it was in some book about bagua and it made mention of a bagua master who had made himself obese through some chi kung practice that was known to have that effect.

Edited June 6, 2009 by erdweir

[Iskote]

...

Edited June 7, 2009 by Iskote

[Zhuo Ming-Dao]

One of the most common longevity practices throughout the history of Taoism has been to abstain from the five grains. This particular method was said to starve the three worms, a set of parasitic organisms that live in everyone and effect your life span. The religious belief was that the worms reported back to the underworld on how you lived your life and so years were added or deducted from your life register (the official form that said when you would die) by Yama due to what they reported. Killing the worms was like scratching your name out of the Grim Reaper's books. You could still die, but now Death would not come looking for you at a predestined time.

 

 

This practice was recently found to have real word validity, because we now know that such a diet would, in fact, starve any intestinal worms that a person might be carrying around. In modern America, around 1 out of 4 people are said to have some form of intestinal worm. In ancient China, I am sure that this number would have been MUCH higher. By killing the worms, you would be able to digest more of your own food and would not be loosing blood to them, and subsequently you would live much longer. Also your colon would be able to operate much more freely.

 

 

The Taoists examined their bodies carefully and developed many methods to extend their lives, even if the theory was not always spot on.

 

 

 

If you wanted to go beyond the bounds of the natural (more than ~130 years) you would have to master the ability to live purely off of chi, since any food that you ate would eventually wear down your body. They would work up to this by switching to a diet of only water, pine cones and tree bark, until eventually they ate nothing at all (other than chi). Their was a very common practice for many hundreds of years in which those people who ate off of tree bits, but were not able to cut off food altogether, would spontaneously auto-mummify upon death. There is a lot of archeological evidence for this phenomena in China and Japan from the 1100-1600s. Scientists still do not understand how they were able to do this upon death, since the remains appear to have automatically vacuumed out all of their fluids at the moment of death (as if all the jing suddenly vanished).

 

 

Of course we only have anecdotal evidence of people who learned how to live off of chi and thereby gain physical immortality.

Edited June 6, 2009 by Zhuo Ming-Dao

[Ramon25]

the thing is that its pretty easy to maintain a fair levels of health and mobility well into old age even if your not doing taoist internal arts. Just dont live like your trying to kill yourself (junk food, not exercising, smoking stressing, AND not attending to the soul) So taosim is more about basic longevity AND the cultivation of spirit as well as keeping you in good health while alive. Taoism fills your life with philosophy, art, practices, culture, peace and awe for the universe and existence. It is a beutiful archetype that we choose to embrace Its also about individuation. So the way i see it taoism is about living a good life not only a really long life. I may be true that really long life may only happen in really high levels of cultivation, BUT, that is the only reason to live so long, so that you can finish that cultivation, That usually requires most of your waking attention anyways so.... That what your life becomes. Taoism and its practices are tools to live a good life.

[Chi kung apprentice]

We all have seen examples like master Chia and people like that whose results are AMAZING

 

but I also LIKE and WANT to think that there most be a method or combination of methods (maybe kaballah with chi kung and 3 apples a day with honey or such) that can make available for us to get MIRACLE effects such as de 600 and 900 years of healthy and strong life such as the characters of the Bible!

[erdweir]

We all have seen examples like master Chia and people like that whose results are AMAZING

 

but I also LIKE and WANT to think that there most be a method or combination of methods (maybe kaballah with chi kung and 3 apples a day with honey or such) that can make available for us to get MIRACLE effects such as de 600 and 900 years of healthy and strong life such as the characters of the Bible!

 

Eric Yudelove, Mantak Chia's student, tried to combine Chia's advanced practices (which weren't well tested mind you) with Kaballah and the result is that he lost his mind, pulling samurai swords at strip clubs and babbling about black dragons and losing his family. ouch. I wish E. Yudelove well, and hope his troubles were endured of some greater lesson, but it should be a warning to us all of trying to reach for too much.

 

We may indeed be capable of fusing eastern and western practices, and achieving unheard of lifespans, but i would not get carried away too quickly by fantastic goals. Nei Dan and Kaballah have long histories, took ages of time to refine into what they are today. It may take just as long to merge them if such a thing is even possible or desirable.

 

And even if we can, should we really be trying to cheat death, or should we be trying to see the truth? You need good health and long life to seek the truth, because it isn't easy and can take a life time find some part of the truth, but holding on to our bodies as long as we can might not be the most worthy goal.

 

This is just my personal view, but I ask you what the point of this worldly immortality is? Taoist Neidan is more about creating a immortal spirit body that can survive the death of the physical body, not about holding on to the body as long as possible.

Edited June 6, 2009 by erdweir

[Trunk]

My observation is that many beginners in the pop-Taoist community focus on very narrowly presented, very advanced, goals - such as semen retention and immortality. But they lack grounding in substantial basic health mechanics present in Taoism, such as students of Chinese medicine receive. As a result the pop-Taoism students often end up hurting themselves, damaging their basic harmony, and eroding their chances for longevity.

[WhiteTiger]

Just wondering what you all think of all the mention of this or that Taoist is 130, or whatever. Do real Taoists actually live this long? Or is it some form of cultural exaggeration done to venerate the wise and elderly?

 

If they do live that long, then what do you think most contributes to that long life? Preferably with some evidence to back up the reason why you think it

 

One thing that concerns me are the monastic vegetarian even VEGAN diets. Vegan diets just plain aren't good for people. There's so much science to back this up, so for me it puts some of the Taoist stuff into question for me. Maybe these vegan diets are giving them amazing longevity, but making them very weak in the process? I know that calorie restriction is a known scientific method of extending lifespan, so maybe?

 

All the Best,

11:33

 

All I can say is there is a lot of talk on this board. Many of us, including me, indulge in talking on this forum instead of practicing.

 

We can talk all we want about amazing effects of Longevity, but the real truth is simply and utterly in consistent practice of waigong, qigong, neigong.

[Iskote]

...

Edited June 7, 2009 by Iskote

[11:33]

the thing is that its pretty easy to maintain a fair levels of health and mobility well into old age even if your not doing taoist internal arts.

 

BANG.

[DaoChild]

Imho, I believe that longevity is mostly genetic.

 

The big difference here is HOW you age, and how gracefully you decline until you die. It is very common to hear people that take care of themselves are functioning like they are in their 20s, 30s, well into their 80s. Suddenly they grow ill and die.

 

I'm more inclined to believe that these keep you young and strong, until your "predestined" time to die (determined by mostly genetics & diet). So , in my opinion it is based on keeping strong to death, not dramatically adding decades of life (though through proper health and exercise you can easily add 10 years to your life).

 

Taoist ways of life merely incorporate a healthy diet, exercise and stretching, and a relaxed, happy mindset.

[Ramon25]

11:33 I would really suggest you take a look at trunks site. Longevity on its own is an empty goal and will leave you feeling empty. Taoism will produce similar or greater "REGULAR" longevity compared to other longevity systems BUT it about HOW we live and what meaning our life has thats important. LIFE IS RELTIVE. So if taoism works on the basic level then why not. So its not a good idea to throw out the baby with the bath water. Trunks is right, to many people get way to into the whole immortality Ect As OPPOSED to trully focusing on the health potnetial (which in taoism's path can also nourish spirit in a GENTLE way). remember that many of the people we see die young were probably not really doing this and were either,- fighters, healers, immortality chasers and EATING GRAINS (bad Idea). Now what kind of longevity can we achieve By -

Avoiding grains

Breathing exercises

joint mobility/exercise

accupressure/ self massage

BASIC, GENTLE nei gong like Inner smile, 6 sounds, gentle versions of the more complex stuff (trunks site!)

Chi gung

LLT work

 

These practices will probably produce great longevity, a calm spirit and a good life.

[11:33]

There are a lot of studies done on animals and bugs that show that calorie restriction increases longevity. So, I don't believe longevity is genetically programmed. Sure, maybe there is a genetically programmed RANGE for lifespan...

[Ramon25]

the okinawans too! Hara hachi bu= eat until 80 percent full. There was also a study done on humans following the diet for a few years. They had the blood pressure of 10 year olds! I agree i dont think its gentically programmed ALTHOUGH I do believe genes do help! Read a book called Biology of Belief, Now that is a book. He is a doctor that was a pioneer in the field of epigentics (a frontier science) that basically showing how we control our genes and they are not destiny. So if you BELIEVE genes determine longevity I hope your parents had bood health as our attitude towards aging influence how it will happen. This is his site check out these articels they are some gems!

 

 

http://www.brucelipton.com/article/a-romp-...e-quantum-field

 

http://www.brucelipton.com/article/the-wisdom-of-your-cells

 

http://www.brucelipton.com/article/the-wis...ol-your-biology

 

http://www.brucelipton.com/article/the-wis...ur-cells-part-3

 

 

This is also why i think that the meditations focused on organs Inner smile, 5 elements, would definatley increase longevity. as would visualizations aimed at healing.

[WhiteTiger]

Imho, I believe that longevity is mostly genetic.

 

The big difference here is HOW you age, and how gracefully you decline until you die. It is very common to hear people that take care of themselves are functioning like they are in their 20s, 30s, well into their 80s. Suddenly they grow ill and die.

 

Aren't there yogic practices and some Tibetan practices that that believe to exercise certain ways throughout your whole life until you die a peaceful death without disease or illness being the cause of your death?

 

Weather you live up to 80 or 120 does it matter if you did actually spend your whole life non stop practicing health practices while attempting to progress further except without going to extreme spiritual practices where you may end up at least practicing meditation 2 or 3 times daily working it up until you eventually end up meditating for months on end in caves and so forth?

 

I don't know about you guys but when it comes down to it. I think its way more important to just to practice.

The quality the effort and the more diligent always the better.

 

Maybe I'm not currently a shinning example of that. Although that don't mean I such a dim star when it came to daily practice.

 

Peace,

wt

[11:33]

I don't know about you guys but when it comes down to it. I think its way more important to just to practice.

The quality the effort and the more diligent always the better.

 

In my opinion, my opinion! this is flawed. It's like the old saying: "Don't just train harder, train smarter." If you train hard at something that isn't going to get you where you want to go, then you would have been much better off 20 years ago taking a step back and evaluating which path really IS going to take you where you want to go. Then every year check your progress: is it working? Am I really going where I wanted to go? Is this path really working?

[WhiteTiger]

In my opinion, my opinion! this is flawed. It's like the old saying: "Don't just train harder, train smarter." If you train hard at something that isn't going to get you where you want to go, then you would have been much better off 20 years ago taking a step back and evaluating which path really IS going to take you where you want to go. Then every year check your progress: is it working? Am I really going where I wanted to go? Is this path really working?

 

HAHAHA!

 

YES, YES, I AGREE!

 

So put what you said and what I said together.

Train hard and train smart.

 

Theory and practice!