The most powerful Qigong exercise you've experienced

[Dainin]

Dainin,

 

Do you still practice Pan Gu Shengong? I have been practicing the moving form for a few years now and do the non-moving form much more often. What is interesting here is that Sifu associates Sun with the left channel and Moon with the right, as opposed to the yoga tradition which does the exact opposite.

 

I have really not been strict with visualization but stick mostly to the movements alone. I have found this Qigong to be generating more energy in less time and with really simple movements. I am not too sure on the "channelling" controversy associated with this form (like Falun) but I have not had any negative effects so far. I am considering doing the third level, but that needs to be learnt from Sifu Ou personally.

 

I happened to watch Jeff's level 1 and 2 DVDs a few days ago and his form didn't seem to do much for me. In fact, if anything did work, it was simply the spirals.

 

Hi SV1, yes I do practice it on an ongoing basis (I keep a practice log in the Tao Lounge), mostly the moving and the advanced (aka condensed) form. I should do the non-moving form more often, but I have a regular sitting practice already. It's on my to do list, along with a bunch of other stuff! I learned all the levels from Master Ou a few years ago, while enrolled in a medical qigong program at the Academy for Five Element Acupuncture, including the 3 forms, healing skills and instructor training. It was the primary method the practioners used to generate qi. I would definitely recommend attending some of Master Ou's classes if you have a chance. I'm not a big fan of the channeling concept either, but I can't deny what I feel when I do the practices! If anyone reading this is interested in checking it out, the web site is: Pan Gu Shengong

 

I also noticed that "sun and moon combined" has a similar meaning to hatha yoga, hatha being sun and moon, and yoga being union. Not sure about the left and right channels, although I think in some models they cross over and switch sides at the location of the chakras. Regarding the Jeff Primack stuff, I agree about the spirals, and I found the "pressing on qi" notion useful too. His 4 day workshop is worth attending for fun, and is quite inexpensive considering.

[Siliconvalley1]

Hi SV1, yes I do practice it on an ongoing basis (I keep a practice log in the Tao Lounge), mostly the moving and the advanced (aka condensed) form. I should do the non-moving form more often, but I have a regular sitting practice already. It's on my to do list, along with a bunch of other stuff! I learned all the levels from Master Ou a few years ago, while enrolled in a medical qigong program at the Academy for Five Element Acupuncture, including the 3 forms, healing skills and instructor training. It was the primary method the practioners used to generate qi. I would definitely recommend attending some of Master Ou's classes if you have a chance. I'm not a big fan of the channeling concept either, but I can't deny what I feel when I do the practices! If anyone reading this is interested in checking it out, the web site is: Pan Gu Shengong

 

I also noticed that "sun and moon combined" has a similar meaning to hatha yoga, hatha being sun and moon, and yoga being union. Not sure about the left and right channels, although I think in some models they cross over and switch sides at the location of the chakras. Regarding the Jeff Primack stuff, I agree about the spirals, and I found the "pressing on qi" notion useful too. His 4 day workshop is worth attending for fun, and is quite inexpensive considering.

 

Hi Dainin,

 

Thanks for sharing

 

Is the condensed form required only for those who cannot spend enough time doing levels 1 and 2? Though this is what someone told me, that does not seem to be what Sifu Ou writes on his website. Do you notice a significant increase in energy from levels 1/2 to 3?

 

I learnt level 1 from a senior student of Sifu Ou and non-moving through correspondence. I guess it's time to learn from Sifu directly

 

Now that you mentioned, the concept of "crossing" of the channels makes sense, especially for the non-moving form where the visualization is kind of beyond this place of switching of channels.

 

I noticed earlier that you practice(d) Xiang Gong. Did you practice the two forms (Xiang Gong and Pangu Shengong) together? While Sifu Ou does not seem to restrict the practitioner from practicing other forms (when I once talked to him and asked him this question, all he said was that one would not feel the need for other practices), Tian Ruisheng does instruct one not to practice other forms while practicing Fragrance Qigong.

 

Thanks again ...

 

Oh, and J Primack, I was interested mainly in the nine breath method. I borrowed his DVD from a friend but haven't gotten around to watching it yet.

Edited June 17, 2009 by Siliconvalley1

[Dainin]

 

Is the condensed form required only for those who cannot spend enough time doing levels 1 and 2? Though this is what someone told me, that does not seem to be what Sifu Ou writes on his website. Do you notice a significant increase in energy from levels 1/2 to 3? ...

 

I noticed earlier that you practice(d) Xiang Gong. Did you practice the two forms (Xiang Gong and Pangu Shengong) together? While Sifu Ou does not seem to restrict the practitioner from practicing other forms (when I once talked to him and asked him this question, all he said was that one would not feel the need for other practices), Tian Ruisheng does instruct one not to practice other forms while practicing Fragrance Qigong.

 

The energy in level 3 feels stronger to me, and is generated in 1/3 the time. Sifu Ou did caution people not to stop practicing the other levels after learning it though. I do practice the Xiang Gong and Pan Gu together often, and have had no ill effects. I was not aware of Master Tian stating not to practice it with other forms. If I was going to hypothetically be limited to one practice, the Pan Gu Shengong would be my choice (well after zazen anyway). I just happen to enjoy rotating a few practices. Good luck and good health!

[minkus]

One time years ago, I was sitting in a movie theater at the end of the aisle, with my arm and hand hanging down relaxed. I began to make really small, barely perceptible spirals with my arm. Within 10 minutes it felt like my entire arm was vibrating with energy. After that, sometimes I would practice this with both arms at the same time while standing. Again these are very small spirals, like less than an inch. In fact, it seems like the smaller you can make them, the stronger the sensation is. Well, I thought this was my personal discovery and never told anyone about it. A few years later when I took Jeff Primack's workshop, I found he was using the spiraling motion too, although not as small spirals. There are probably other forms that use it too...

 

In chentaiji this is spiralling energy or reeling silk energy !

 

Very powerfull

 

Good luck.

[tao stillness]

It seems interesting that no one has mentioned Falun Gong as a form giving strong feelings of chi. But if you do Falun Qong be prepared to have no time to do any other type of chi kung. The Falun master stresses that no one should ever mix different chi kung styles as this sends different signals and energy to the body.

[soaring crane]

I don't think many Falun people show up here.

 

Did you notice how old that thread is, btw?

[ChiDragon]

The Falun Gong group are very busy with their political activities, with the Chinese government, in their own society. This is a very strong group and have their own website to deal with.

[Friend]

I don't think many Falun people show up here.

 

Did you notice how old that thread is, btw?

 

If they are Falun People they mean no contest or harm as the roots of the

teaching is Zhen, Shan, Ren = Truth, Benelovence and Tolerance.

Argueing who is most powerful is a question one do not really consider

as it is seen as cultivationmethod to go beyond the three worlds

and cultivation in society the Big Way in combination with the exercise the Small way

and the help of a Falun for 24/7 cultivation.

Alone the theoretic comparism tell that one do not need seclusion and full time meditation

or speciality to cultivate successful.

 

 

DE/ Virtue as substance is something consider more precious in alignment with Zhen, Shen and Ren

and is holding higher value than abillties which are sealed until the time all is activated

and it is the right time to do so. As using a skill is costing energy credits and overuse may even close and make it

difficult to open in a second approach. Actually the time when I learned it, it was say to abide the countries rules

and stay away from politics. It is a question who is using the Falun Group. Groups that has a considerable amount

of members are really likely to be infiltrated, especially when the teaching cause firmness in believe.

 

As well they have their own community which share their interest

and are well aware that they are not welcomed everywhere in puplic

so being observant is something one do develop which is true to all who follow

a way which is consider strange in the eyes of the society and enviroment one is.

[multiarms]

"Kunlun snake"... Not to get too specific but it involves lying on the ground with hands together and feet together - and then it gets crazy. Max instructed to do it only occasionally. I think I've done it twice in two years.

[RiverSnake]

Part of Gift of the Tao 2: Sequential Energy Center Activation and Dimensional Expansion. My energy gets thicker doing this than any other exercises I have tried.

 

Note: I only have experience with 2 systems, Michael's and The Way of Energy by Lam Kam Chuen.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited March 12, 2014 by OldChi

[joeblast]

hands down, me mco

[silent thunder]

Fire Hands... Dragon Gate

 

On the few occasions I've done Pranayama... BOOM!

[doc benway]

My good friend and training partner created (channeled) a set of Qigong exercises rooted in classic Chinese Qigong but expressed in terms of the North American medicine wheel (a part of his heritage) and shamanism. This is the most powerful Qigong I've practiced. Quite amazing stuff.

[Jox]

Maoshan 5 elements zhang zhuang with five gates breathing and buddha plam qi gong set ... 

[silent thunder]

Fire Hands and Pranayama, (even though one is not technically qi gong, they both rock my paradigm continually).

[healingtouch]

Strong vibratory sensations means that energy channels are getting unblocked and cleared and are a sign that the body is carring a lot of water energy. One that has purified enough will feel no sensations when circulating their own qi or even divine energy.

 

Hands heating up is another story, and they are a sign of strong healing energy being transmitted.

[Spotless]

No teacher but but my muscles are pretty conditioned. Its just that my knees feel sore in certain movements. Like sinking ect... And I I just wanted to combine the two sets while leaving out the troublesome ones.

 

Find a teacher - online will work fine - they can work with you remotely as well.

The lopsided approach can quickly lead to very poor results.

 

Switch to yoga - real yoga is fantastic and more forgiving in a sense.

 

The lopsided unguided duct tape approach is mangled and will not serve you well.

 

If you have weak knees - their are many exercises in Qi Gong for healing them and strengthening them - what would you suspect might be a typical problem with Kung Fu Warrior Monks? Do you not think they have worked out Qi Gong for the knees?

 

Qi Gong will unfold for you if you have the basics down, a good teacher and a solid practice. Far less directing is required than the engineering types would lead us to believe. A good steady simple practice will lead you to astonishing results in only a few years - and all the way along you will feel better and better and stronger and healthier and more energized.

 

The rabbits go to the hospital, go nuts or quit the race. The turtles strut to the finish line.

If you are older and your concern is because you are having real difficulty - Qi Qong has everything for you including sitting Qi Gong.

If you are injured there it can help as well.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Spotless

[vonkrankenhaus]

Food selection, preparation, and eating, is very powerful qigong - but most are overlooking and wasting this potential.

 

Sex is also very powerful qigong.

 

These two have more effect than all other exercise and posture qigong practices I have seen, and most currently known/practiced qigong is actually dealing with the "normal" (today) mismanagement of these two things.

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[silent thunder]

Fire Hands and Pranayama, (even though one is not technically qi gong, they both rock my paradigm continually).

 

I feel I should add that my practice is no longer very focused on my forms.  They are no longer the pivot of my process.  My focus is more and more on awareness of my natural breathing and its interaction with my mind and my emotional hooks throughout the day.  The forms and the clearing of blockages began to make me aware that my next level of practice after forms, was how my breathing affected my body and my mind.  It still stuns me just how much my breathing (and heartrate and subsequent mental process) changes when certain thoughts arise. 

 

Once that clarified, I became acutely aware, unable to avoid being aware, of how various foods and things affect my body, my mind and my emotions.  After a couple years of altering and being very focused on what I put in my body and how it affected me, led me to then changing what I put on my body.  Lotions, tooth pastes, soaps...

 

Finally, recently I've started watching what I put in my mind... what I choose to read, watch, listen to, think about.  TV has been gone for several years.  Internet news is extremely limited and selective.  My strongest daily improving impact has been on watching my breathing as I interact with media. 

 

Emotions and ideas are like waves... my practice is having the awareness and will, to choose which waves I will ride.

 

Living authentically, being true to self.  More than any form now, I am garnering highest benefit from being aware and authentic.  In this space, any influence that shakes the center, immediately stirs awareness and attention.  With intention, that attention, brings me out of the inertia of the emotional response to the impulse and allows me to release and not to ride certain thought/emotion waves.

 

Being healthy now to me, is far more about what I linger on in thought, what I choose to bring into my mind, than what I eat, or if I play Qi Gong.  Certain thoughts, certain modes of thinking, can cause energetic inertia that last weeks, months, decades even, where a harsh meal is processed in a few days, energetically.

 

One thing that repeatedly has helped me get in deeper body awareness and mind open awareness, is when I become aware of my breathing at random points throughout the day, I simply breath in my next breath and really feel and sense the sensations of the bottoms' of my feet.  For some reason, this then brings about a simultaneous, whole-body awareness and that thoughts don't seem to be able to settle onto and the mind clears so softly. 

 

This small, seemingly random practice, has more direct influence on my everyday well being and sense of calm, than any moving form or seated meditation, but I'm not sure I would have arrived here without them... hard to say. 

Bah I'm rambling...

[tao stillness]

to lump millions of people who practice Falun Dafa as being involved with politics is an incorrect generalization.

Edited August 5 by tao stillness
comments withdrawn after reconsideration

[Spotless]

Breathing into the Lower Dan Tien

[Sebastian]

I see this term "powerful" used many times by various QiGong masters and systems, so I think it needs to be defined.

 

What kind of power are you looking for ? Raw sensation of Qi, Health Benefits, Opening Energy Centers, entering a deep transe ?

 

From what I've experienced, usually the more subtle is the more powerful, meaning the more refined an energy is, the less you will feel it. So even though you might say it's not powerful because you don't physically feel it, it is more powerful in another sense because the energy you are feeding of is highly refined and more beneficial to you. Master Lin's energy is very subtle for example, unless you are advanced energetically to pick up on it.

 

Folks with more aggressive energies like Kundalini might make you feel like they have more power, but there's more than meets the eye to things energetically. The carrier of energy is indeed stronger in the case of Kundalini, but you need to look at the information embedded inside. It's like a radio wave that contains bits of information. Some energetic payloads may be more refined than others, for example some contain entire lineage systems (like Stillness movement), but others contain very raw and un-refined information. So focus more on the quality of information that you are receiving once you've decoded it so to speak, not the heat or random weird sensations that accompanied the delivery.

 

When you do movements it's the same, your internal energy responds. Usually the meridian system responds better to subtle movements. Hitting the gym on a rampage might get you a great high after, but it's not quite as useful to you energetically. 

 

Power is not everything. Love vibrates very highly. Unconditional Love even higher. And Love won't make you feel that it's powerful, it won't daze you or send you in a transe. Think about why you need power and what it will give you.

[JohnC]

Power is not everything. Love vibrates very highly. Unconditional Love even higher. And Love won't make you feel that it's powerful, it won't daze you or send you in a transe. Think about why you need power and what it will give you.

 

Worth repeating.

 

John

[Spotless]

I am beginning to see the extent of my own stupidity. It's probably just the tip of the iceberg.

 

Anyways, aside from a lot of seated meditation and the lohanquan, are there any other main things that you do? And could you give general recommendations about things like timing.

 

Meditation, for me, doesn't seem to readily help me transition out of things that I have been imprinted with during the day so I have been doing 2 hours of qigong from 10-midnight and then I do full lotus sleeping with attention set on the dantian until about 2 in the AM. I used to do mantra and sometimes go through a mala/rosary at this time---but mantra doesn't seem to help much with cultivation. It just seems to help clear the beneath-the-surface of my mind a bit so my dreams are less weird.

 

It's entirely possible/probable that some of the terms are mis-applied. If that is so, then apologies for my ignorance. If you have any recommendations, I am more than willing to take and apply them.

 

Thanks.

 

i would reconsider "full lotus sleeping" after the Qi Gong.

Given the hours you are putting in consider several things:

 

Two hours of Qi Gong is considerable and so look at the speed of your postures. Try doing each move for 5 minutes. If needed you can simply count to 300. The counting can also be helpful in quieting the mind.

 

After this I would sleep or meditate briefly - meditation should be in an awake non-trance state in the center of ones head. Try not to float out and continue breathing into the lower dan Tien. By the end of a Qi Gong session in 5 minute intervals this should be no problem.

 

Then consider waking around 3:00-3:30 and meditate at that time. At least one hour - again out of trance in the center of ones head.

This time of the morning is very helpful in meditation.

 

I am not familiar with "full lotus sleeping" but in general the idea of being in a meditation posture or space and allowing sleep is contrary to my practice. However - if it is a bonafide ancient tradition practice then it probably has its place somewhere. (Even then - some ancient traditional practices that are embedded in a lineage got into them as the lineage slipped here and there - and some of it is just hogwash altogether). Just because it says "Full Lotus" does not mean it's useful and hopefully not just boastful.

 

Begin moving from the perspective of doing this to accomplish something - move away from the frequency of perspective that this is medication and calisthenics to "overcome" life.

 

Stillness is at the root - a tremendous stillness - seep into this more and more - the "noise" of the day will become background.

 

 

[Spotless]

It's good to see you have these sensitivities - very perceptive.

 

Moving forward in the head - mind loops - this is the analyzer area - almost completely automated in nearly every human.