What's the big-deal with this so Called "Wang Liping?"

[indra]

My question here is why is everyone on this forum obsessed with some unknown called Wang Liping? Is he supposed to be some sort of immortal or master? So what's the big deal about these so called masters, if there that great why don't they teach for free. Didn't sages of the past like Krishna, Buddha and Christ teach the world fro free not expecting anything in return. So What's the difference between him and what you call the Magus Of Java: John Chang? I'm just trying to figure what the big-deal is of these supposedly magical charlatans, whatever they may be?

Edited June 8, 2009 by indra

[11:33]

Teaching for free is not the mark of a great master. I don't really know much about Wang Li Ping, but I thought I should point out that teaching for free doesn't mean anything. And charging for lessons doesn't mean anything either.

 

There is plenty of good teachings out there in the world totally free. So why do teachers need to teach free? They don't, because you have so much free teachings at your disposal via the web.

[goldisheavy]

My question here is why is everyone on this forum obsessed with some unknown called Wang Liping? Is he supposed to be some sort of immortal or master? So what's the big deal about these so called masters, if there that great why don't they teach for free. Didn't sages of the past like Krishna, Buddha and Christ teach the world fro free not expecting anything in return. So What's the difference between him and what you call the Magus Of Java: John Chang? I'm just trying to figure what the big-deal is of these supposedly magical charlatans, whatever they may be?

 

Good question. There are two kinds of skills, conventional and not. Conventional ones are like trades, like welding or plumbing or programming. To learn those people pay, at least for the tools and books or internet access, if not to pay for being taught in person or in a class. And then there are non-conventional ones, like wisdom. Wisdom passes beyond convention, and as such, is not a trade and should never be made into one. This is true of all real wisdom, but it's even more true of the wisdom that's meant to liberate a person from the cyclical life. Another way to say "cyclical life" is "life of convention". Obviously following some convention is not the way to liberate oneself from it. It should be common sense. For example, if you're a prostitute you cannot liberate yourself by fucking more Johns or by fucking a specific kind of John. The act of fucking for money is what prostitution is, and doing more of it, or doing it in specific manner is not the way out of it.

 

All the sincere people understand this.

 

So why is it a big deal then? The reason is obvious! The reason it's a big deal is because very few people really care about wisdom. People want these "spiritual" associations and skills for personal self-aggrandizement (or in the best case, health, so they can spend even more energy inside convention that ruined their health in the first place), in other words, they want to use those to add more glitter and shine to their conventional identity. So you get "So and so the democrat, the honest person, the handsome guy, the rich guy, and the spiritual guy", but the "and" part is purely conventional. In other words, since these folks do not want real wisdom, what they want is something that everyone can agree is "spiritual" (even if it's dumb or is useless), so that everyone can agree how wonderfully spiritual this guy is in addition to all the other wonderful conventional qualities they have. It's basically a form of identity-building and maintenance. It's what ties people to the cyclical life in the first place! Haha...

 

It's stupid, but ultimately there is no harm even in that stupidity. It's just a dream. It's like having a stupid dream. No harm done. It's not impressive, useful or good in any higher sense, but it's not totally bad either. But you have to decide for yourself what kind of things you will hold in esteem. For me, I decided to have disdain and contempt for such glitter-seekers. That's my choice and my own identity building process at work. So ultimately I follow the same nature, but relatively speaking I like my choices and tastes better than those of the masses at this time.

 

So it's kind of like saying, I'll teach you how to stop prostituting yourself if you fuck me first. Obviously it's not a sincere offer of help.

Edited June 8, 2009 by goldisheavy

[goldisheavy]

Teaching for free is not the mark of a great master. I don't really know much about Wang Li Ping, but I thought I should point out that teaching for free doesn't mean anything. And charging for lessons doesn't mean anything either.

 

There is plenty of good teachings out there in the world totally free. So why do teachers need to teach free? They don't, because you have so much free teachings at your disposal via the web.

 

The very name "a teacher" designates a conventional role, that is implied to be kind of authoritarian and it's meant for convention-upkeep. Wisdom masters really should not be called "teachers" even though, if you are lucky, you can learn from one. Alternatively call everything "teacher", even your own shoes, and really mean it as seriously as when you use that word in other circumstances, that's also fair.

 

A wisdom master is a free man/woman, and so doesn't have to do anything. However, supposedly, and the key word here is supposedly, the wisdom masters have the mark of compassion, while at the same time having gone beyond the material needs either completely or substantially, so a combination of compassion with low or non-existent material needs often yields "free" teaching.

 

Wisdom masters demand commitment and passion instead of money. They want dedication and liveliness. A rich man who pays lots of money but who has no true dedication, no real interest, and is not lively is turned away by the wisdom master, together with his money and all.

[11:33]

The very name "a teacher" designates a conventional role, that is implied to be kind of authoritarian and it's meant for convention-upkeep. Wisdom masters really should not be called "teachers" even though, if you are lucky, you can learn from one. Alternatively call everything "teacher", even your own shoes, and really mean it as seriously as when you use that word in other circumstances, that's also fair.

 

A wisdom master is a free man/woman, and so doesn't have to do anything. However, supposedly, and the key word here is supposedly, the wisdom masters have the mark of compassion, while at the same time having gone beyond the material needs either completely or substantially, so a combination of compassion with low or non-existent material needs often yields "free" teaching.

 

Wisdom masters demand commitment and passion instead of money. They want dedication and liveliness. A rich man who pays lots of money but who has no true dedication, no real interest, and is not lively is turned away by the wisdom master, together with his money and all.

 

Can you refer me to some of these masters in particular, so I can learn from them?

[goldisheavy]

Can you refer me to some of these masters in particular, so I can learn from them?

 

Well, since they don't hang out a shingle, traditionally you'd have to go on a hunting trip and hunt one down. I am sorry to say, but I am probably the closest one to such "wisdom master" here, and you can learn from me if you like and if I have the energy and inclination to teach. At the same time, there have to be people much better than me, at least in theory I know this has to be so, but I haven't met or read about them except in ancient stories about people like Chandrakirti or Garab Dorje, or something like that. I don't even think Lin Chi or Dogen are any wiser than yours truly.

 

My real advice is that what you want to know is available to you right inside your own mind. If you address your questions to yourself and instead of jumping to the answer, just let the question sit there as you stay silent, you'll eventually get it. So your own inner mind is your highest wisdom master. You should note that your own inner mind doesn't give a damn about material needs or even you. That's right! There is a "part" of you that doesn't give a damn about what happens to you. Did you know that? Of course it's not really a "part" since it's not apart from anything. Just think it over. Ever had dreams where you die? Why would your mind kill you in its own dream? Supposedly you are your mind's pet avatar, no? Or maybe not. Just pay attention.

Edited June 8, 2009 by goldisheavy

[r.w.smith]

In most Traditional Pai Money is Forbidden. It wont matter if you offer 5 million dollars. Your either accepted or your not.

 

Some Health/Spiritual Practices I suppose can be taught for a Fee. The view beiing to help Mankind & Ensure a decent Lifestyle for the Master.

 

However I think if Wang Liping was to choose a succesor to His Art, Then He probably wouldnt charge a Dime. Mainly because something like that cannot carry a Price Tag & Its not the Teachers "sole" Decision to make anyway.

 

Maybe the Fee set for the Seminars,Courses,Etc are Determined by the Teacher However.

 

Regards,

[Aetherous]

Indra,

 

Wang Liping is supposedly a Taoist immortal, and a master. He is not unknown, because people here know about him and discuss him. He was only unknown to you, until now. The big deal about so called masters is that they can help you immensely in your personal practice, because they've been through a LOT and just simply "know things." He is different from John Chang.

 

Doing a search and actually being interested in the topic will help in understanding what's going on.

[WhiteTiger]

Wang Liping is supposedly a Taoist immortal, and a master.

Really he is an immortal? When those words are spoken about him what type or definition does he fall under?

[Martial Development]

Da Mo did not charge his disciple any money. Does that please you?

 

Instead, he let the guy chop off his fcuking arm!

 

This is not about money, it is about sacrifice--and if you don't want to make one, then kindly get out of the way so that more serious students may pass.

[Aetherous]

Really he is an immortal? When those words are spoken about him what type or definition does he fall under?

 

Eh, I shouldn't repeat things that I read on this forum...I don't know!

[Ken]

Eh, I shouldn't repeat things that I read on this forum...I don't know!

 

I also want to know who said Master Wang is an "immortal", whatever that means. I certainly have never used that term in the forum, i don't think Kathy Li has used that term neither. It seems the term "immortal" have been used to the point where it has lost it meaning.

 

To the original poster, no, Master Wang is no big deal, so don't obsess over him.

[松永道]

So it's kind of like saying, I'll teach you how to stop prostituting yourself if you fuck me first. Obviously it's not a sincere offer of help.

 

 

Ultimately I agree with Gold.. well aside from his self-appointment as the wisest guy here...

 

But the distinction between teaching skills verses wisdom is a good one. Obviously wisdom can't be taught, it's esoteric. And were it even possible to capture true wisdom in a doctrine, it would be like hanging a picture of your bedroom window over the window itself. There's no life in the picture, no light, no change.

 

And so follows the Daoist saying - Laozi was the wisest man because his teacher never taught him anything.

 

 

Now, on Wang Liping, it should be obvious that he's teaching skills at these seminars. But does that disqualify him from being a "wisdom master"? The two are no more mutually exclusive than wisdom and any other profession. There are wise businessmen, bartenders, farmers and house-painters. And any interaction, especially with genuinely wise people, can incite your own wisdom.

 

SYD

Edited June 9, 2009 by 松永道

[Aetherous]

Ken,

 

I also want to know who said Master Wang is an "immortal", whatever that means. I certainly have never used that term in the forum, i don't think Kathy Li has used that term neither. It seems the term "immortal" have been used to the point where it has lost it meaning.

 

Well if he's not, then he isn't a Taoist "master", either...and I would then agree that he isn't a big deal.

[Ken]

Ken,

Well if he's not, then he isn't a Taoist "master", either...and I would then agree that he isn't a big deal.

 

really? A master is quite different from an immortal...you know what is an immortal ? you have met one?

[Aetherous]

Sorry, I shouldn't write so strongly. Bowing out of the conversation...

[Ken]

Sorry, I shouldn't write so strongly. Bowing out of the conversation...

 

Sorry I wasn't trying to be argumntative but Master Wang has never, as far as i know, claimed to be an immortal so I have no idea why people are throwing around that term at him. Master Wang teaches high quality traditional Doaist Cultivation for Health and Wellness. He has never claimed to teach anyone how to become an "immortal".

 

p.s. incidentally the only person i know who claimed publicly to teach you how to become an immortal is David Verdesi, since he claimed he is one already , so anyone who wants to become an "immortal" should contact and learn from Verdesi.

Edited June 9, 2009 by Ken

[Zhuo Ming-Dao]

Read the book "Opening the Dragon Gate: The Making of A Modern Taoist Wizard" translated by Thomas Cleary.

This book is the biography of Wang Liping's life and it is a very fascinating read. Whether or not you believe all of the remarkable things that Master Wang said he did or said his three teachers were capable of doing is true... you decide, but you must still admit that he seems like he would be a very interesting person to talk to and to learn from.

 

It is understandable that after reading this book many people would be interested in having the man as a teacher; he is like the aspiring Taoist alchemist's dream come true.

 

 

 

Ken,

 

QUOTE

I also want to know who said Master Wang is an "immortal", whatever that means. I certainly have never used that term in the forum, i don't think Kathy Li has used that term neither. It seems the term "immortal" have been used to the point where it has lost it meaning.

 

 

Well if he's not, then he isn't a Taoist "master", either...and I would then agree that he isn't a big deal.

 

 

Wang Liping has been called a Taoist Wizard (one who is capable of many supernormal feats), but not an immortal. If by master you mean someone who is a teacher and who has mastered many different techniques and tools for the path, then of course he is a master. If you mean that he has mastered "the Tao," then I think you have to reexamine what the Tao means to you and maybe reread the first line of the Tao Te Ching.

 

 

 

Really I think that the English word master is a pretty terrible rendition of Sifu (honorable teacher) from Chinese or Sensei (teacher, literally "born earlier") and sometimes Roshi (venerable teacher) from the Japanese.

[Aetherous]

No..."master" as in mastery of Taoist alchemy, which is immortality.

 

Apparently he only teaches practices for health and wellness...which isn't alchemy.

[Ken]

No..."master" as in mastery of Taoist alchemy, which is immortality.

 

Apparently he only teaches practices for health and wellness...which isn't alchemy.

 

What Master Wang teaches certainly qualified as what one would call Daoist alchemy. It doesn't mean alchmey cannot be practised for a health and wellness reason.

[Uncle Screwtape]

In Opening the Dragon Gate, Wang Liping is described by the authors as having died and come back to life. And when his mother worried about him, she was told that her son was not ill and she was asked: who can become a spiritual immortal without going mad?

 

That's possibly where people get the idea of his immortality from; though as someone pointed out: there are different types of immortality.

 

On the subject of money, there is a difference between covering your considerable costs only and growing rich off your teaching. It's worth looking into before casting aspersions.

 

For my part, I have only read the book; and I learnt a lot from it. All sorts of notes are scribbled in the margins. It's a valuable read for anyone interested in Taoism.

 

Richard

[Yuen Biao]

Well, since they don't hang out a shingle, traditionally you'd have to go on a hunting trip and hunt one down. I am sorry to say, but I am probably the closest one to such "wisdom master" here, and you can learn from me if you like and if I have the energy and inclination to teach. At the same time, there have to be people much better than me, at least in theory I know this has to be so, but I haven't met or read about them except in ancient stories about people like Chandrakirti or Garab Dorje, or something like that. I don't even think Lin Chi or Dogen are any wiser than yours truly.

 

My real advice is that what you want to know is available to you right inside your own mind. If you address your questions to yourself and instead of jumping to the answer, just let the question sit there as you stay silent, you'll eventually get it. So your own inner mind is your highest wisdom master. You should note that your own inner mind doesn't give a damn about material needs or even you. That's right! There is a "part" of you that doesn't give a damn about what happens to you. Did you know that? Of course it's not really a "part" since it's not apart from anything. Just think it over. Ever had dreams where you die? Why would your mind kill you in its own dream? Supposedly you are your mind's pet avatar, no? Or maybe not. Just pay attention.

 

 

How...what can I say apart from unmasterful perhaps maybe even arrogant too! Very funny though

[indra]

So What's the supposed diffrence between "Wang Liping" and "the magus of Java: John Chang"? Isn't aspiring to be like John Chang a waste of time! Isn't communion with the divine more important and empowering than having these so-called powers that just detrat you from your true journey. By the way why do the seminars cost so much money, seems like so called teachers are just out to make a profit? My two-cents

[Guest paul walter]

Well, since they don't hang out a shingle, traditionally you'd have to go on a hunting trip and hunt one down. I am sorry to say, but I am probably the closest one to such "wisdom master" here, and you can learn from me if you like and if I have the energy and inclination to teach. At the same time, there have to be people much better than me, at least in theory I know this has to be so, but I haven't met or read about them except in ancient stories about people like Chandrakirti or Garab Dorje, or something like that. I don't even think Lin Chi or Dogen are any wiser than yours truly.

 

My real advice is that what you want to know is available to you right inside your own mind. If you address your questions to yourself and instead of jumping to the answer, just let the question sit there as you stay silent, you'll eventually get it. So your own inner mind is your highest wisdom master. You should note that your own inner mind doesn't give a damn about material needs or even you. That's right! There is a "part" of you that doesn't give a damn about what happens to you. Did you know that? Of course it's not really a "part" since it's not apart from anything. Just think it over. Ever had dreams where you die? Why would your mind kill you in its own dream? Supposedly you are your mind's pet avatar, no? Or maybe not. Just pay attention.

 

 

 

All your posts on this one are exceptionally deft and round about--that's how all 'answers' should be-hone in on the bastard of an issue and then kill it by slicing it open!! It takes real humbleness to write like this ( no sracasm). Just replying cause even 'masters' need input. Paul.

 

All your posts on this one are exceptionally deft and round about--that's how all 'answers' should be-hone in on the bastard of an issue and then kill it by slicing it open!! It takes real humbleness to write like this ( no sracasm). Just replying cause even 'masters' need input. Paul.

 

 

 

 

Just realised my post can be read as a sarcastic (even typed 'sarcasm' wrong!) jibe. completely genuine. Paul.

[Uncle Screwtape]

By the way why do the seminars cost so much money, seems like so called teachers are just out to make a profit? My two-cents

 

How much does it cost to attend a seminar?

 

I imagine costs are considerable: flights, accommodation, venue hire, venue staff, food, security, insurance and goodness knows what other overheads are incurred.

 

His website claims it is a non-profit organisation.

 

Richard