S.O.S. MJJ Becker!

[Thunder_Gooch]

mjj,

 

I only asked one question, what you personally thought of Chang, you derailed it from there my friend and you never answered the question.

 

Sure publish away, I don't negotiate with people who use "blackmail" as a tactic, and I don't think I said anything bad to you if I did that's my bad. I think my analysis of your character is spot on. "Apologize now or I'll do something bad to you" jesus how childish can you be??

 

mjjbecker you can bite me. publish away.

 

-mpg

 

 

 

This thread was posted about something else and you decided to hijack it towards your own ends. Don't play innocent when you jumped in with loaded questions with the intent of trying to cause trouble.

 

OK, Matt. I'll give you a choice. You can apologise now unreservedly for libelling me or I can post the numerous correspondence between us. I am loath to publicly print private correspondence, but you have now publicly made comments about my character that amount to nothing but a vicious campaign of spite.

 

Of course if I have truly made no attempt to help you then there will be nothing that matters in this correspondence and you will have no issue with me publishing it here.

 

That you are 'mwight' is clear, given the material and style of the posts are identical, (Egyptian strong men anyone?). I suspect every 'old timer' here on the forum spotted that, but being generous souls no one commented, (aside from the troll-who no doubt is another 'old timer' amusing himself. Before you accuse me, stop and think about any time I have been shy in expressing my opinion). I didn't bother even after you started your hate thread about me.

 

It doesn't really matter what you feel about me, I don't care. I will not however sit and let you slander me in public. You have no cause nor right to do so.

 

The fact is I have spent a fair bit of time communicating with you-a complete stranger to whom I owe absolutely nothing. You asked for my advice, which I gave to you, and which included recommendations of what and where to study. That it wasn't what you wanted is not my problem.

 

So, you lie and you slander because you are pissed off with your life. I am sorry you feel the way you do, but you have neither the right nor the reason to take it out on me.

 

So, you want to make accusations in public, fine, but let the public see everything.

Edited June 12, 2009 by More_Pie_Guy

[Thunder_Gooch]

I'd like to ask you one last time, what do you think of Chang on a personal level? Do you like or dislike him? Do you think he is a good or a bad person?

 

 

I am just curious about your personal evaluation of him, what sort of vibe did you get from him.

 

 

I don't know why you felt the need to take it to this level Mike.

 

 

 

This thread was posted about something else and you decided to hijack it towards your own ends. Don't play innocent when you jumped in with loaded questions with the intent of trying to cause trouble.

 

This thread started out with a question about your experience with Chang. I have gotten the impression you don't like Chang on a personal level, and that might be totally incorrect. So I asked bluntly how you felt about him, what kind of person you thought he was, etc.

 

Also You've stated several times how dangerous MP is, I don't see how it could possibly be any more dangerous than several other practices which share its training, but whatever.

 

That is what makes me question why you tell everyone this, I am trying to figure out your true motivation. Is it to protect Chang from an onslaught of incoming seekers? I don't know exactly what your true motivation is.

 

Whatever it is I didn't intend for you to blow an engine gasket over it.

Edited June 12, 2009 by More_Pie_Guy

[mjjbecker]

..

Edited July 5, 2009 by mjjbecker

[11:33]

It sounds to me like Michael said some smart stuff to try to help you MPG.

[enouch]

No. I have discussed various things with Kostas. With John Chang I sat and listened-there was really no conversation. I've written a LITTLE about these things, including my thoughts and feelings on reincarnation. On that basis I would appreciate it if you did not talk about my beliefs as you don't know me or my thoughts in any depth, thank you.

 

Discussion and conversation are interesting and can be useful, but practice is fundamental. Experience on a direct personal level. You say you do some Spring Forest qigong every day. I would recommend you do that, and that alone, (Chunyi Lin does state people should not mix other methods with his), every day, for at least two hours. Keep going for a few years and see where it takes you.

 

This is not an intellectual exercise of understanding-that is why I wrote before of opening the heart and clearing the mind. These come from practice, be it prayer, or qigong, or meditation, or a combination. In the same way a virgin can talk about and understand how sex is done, it is nothing like the doing. Neil Armstrong can talk about being on the moon, but it can never be the same as being on the moon. In a spiritual practice you strive to experience for yourself. Reading or hearing about it is not and can never be the experience itself.

 

I would say the above applied equally to your friend. I have friends who follow the Sufi path. While I understand many branches of Islam may not approve of the Sufi way, I expect they would not criticise the getting up at three in the morning to pray, or the several hours of prayer a day, or the fasting. I would respectfully submit that your friend should not see his belief in Allah as a barrier to his sex life, but look at how he can open his heart and mind to the love of Allah. Why should Allah or angels prove their existence simply to prevent someone having a fuck? Surely it is for the person to seek understanding? The same applies to anyone in any system of belief.

 

Does opening the heart change a persons FEELINGS about sex? Yes. I hope your friend can find the right person soon.

 

Wow! so much concern for my friend, I think he would be honored! Anyway he's married now and a Chicago police officer.The issue could have been over any commandment requiring obdeience over personal indulgance.Like not stealing or lying even if it works to your favor and you can get away with it.Many of my liberal friends tell me you can't make abstinence a test for spiritual purity or righteousness.My response is that there are four key dimensions to being human:The physical,the emotional, the intellectual,and the social.My friend by abstaining trained himself to be faithful to his wife.Which brings up the social side since the family is the corner stone of society by not cheating he is in a since being righteous.Also there are cosmological views at work in his perspective he believes in a day of judgement where every act and every word uttered will be accounted for.Since there are those four key dimensions to human life he thinks submission will better him three hunderd and sixty degress in those areas,fortifying his square of life.Being a father to his child,a strong man for his wife and a productive member of society.A supremely disciplined individual...okay I'm romanticing.

 

Regarding Neil Armstrong and his walk on the moon...I understand language is not primary experience,only secondary experience or it represents the experience.The menu is not the meal.I think a lot of this revolves around subjective truth and so called objective truth.If Neil Armstrong mentions seeing a ufo while on the moon[assuming he's trust worthy] inferences can be made.1.Ufos are real 2. He saw one.3.Certain cherished world views may have to go out the window or be seriously revised.Similar to your mentioning a word of caution to mwright[mo pai guy?] about yin and draining spirits.Inferences can be made about your views on spirits-that they are real.If you are correct then what are the implications?...just like ufos.Of course if some one doesn't believe in objective truth on some level then this is all bullshit!Reminds me of history debates in class about oral history, is it a valid source of history.

 

I practice spring forest at a different time of day is that okay? Or do you mean I should halt all other qi gung practices? I've been using it since last summer.I also practice kong jing, muscle tendon[Da mo] classic, whole body breathing ,bone marrow cleasning, one finger zen,I really like Peng's stuff too.If I stopped all the others I would be fearful of forgeting the forms.I've also attached magnets to key areas [sometimes when practicing]this can create a lot of heat.If I sit next to [without magnets]an electrical socket I seem to sense energy or a feeling of insects moving over my head-maybe just lice eh?Curiously I don't get sore from rigourous workouts and the next day I'm ready to rock!I haven't fully emitted sperm for two or three months now and at times I feel my shirts [especially around the sleeves] being pushed outwards.Two hours is a pretty big commitment just for forms or do you mean sitting in lotus as Chunny directed to do in the course for going deeper?

 

 

My weapons:qi gung,mind workstation,np2.autogenics, biofeedback , nlp,rajayoga,hypnosis,mind spa...anyone messes with me... Methos or Enoch

Edited June 12, 2009 by enouch

[enouch]

No. I have discussed various things with Kostas. With John Chang I sat and listened-there was really no conversation. I've written a LITTLE about these things, including my thoughts and feelings on reincarnation. On that basis I would appreciate it if you did not talk about my beliefs as you don't know me or my thoughts in any depth, thank you.

 

Discussion and conversation are interesting and can be useful, but practice is fundamental. Experience on a direct personal level. You say you do some Spring Forest qigong every day. I would recommend you do that, and that alone, (Chunyi Lin does state people should not mix other methods with his), every day, for at least two hours. Keep going for a few years and see where it takes you.

 

This is not an intellectual exercise of understanding-that is why I wrote before of opening the heart and clearing the mind. These come from practice, be it prayer, or qigong, or meditation, or a combination. In the same way a virgin can talk about and understand how sex is done, it is nothing like the doing. Neil Armstrong can talk about being on the moon, but it can never be the same as being on the moon. In a spiritual practice you strive to experience for yourself. Reading or hearing about it is not and can never be the experience itself.

 

I would say the above applied equally to your friend. I have friends who follow the Sufi path. While I understand many branches of Islam may not approve of the Sufi way, I expect they would not criticise the getting up at three in the morning to pray, or the several hours of prayer a day, or the fasting. I would respectfully submit that your friend should not see his belief in Allah as a barrier to his sex life, but look at how he can open his heart and mind to the love of Allah. Why should Allah or angels prove their existence simply to prevent someone having a fuck? Surely it is for the person to seek understanding? The same applies to anyone in any system of belief.

 

Does opening the heart change a persons FEELINGS about sex? Yes. I hope your friend can find the right person soon.

 

Wow! so much concern for my friend, I think he would be honored! Anyway he's married now and a Chicago police officer.The issue could have been over any commandment requiring obdeience over personal indulgance.Like not stealing or lying even if it works to your favor and you can get away with it.Many of my liberal friends tell me you can't make abstinence a test for spiritual purity or righteousness.My response is that there are four key dimensions to being human:The physical,the emotional, the intellectual,and the social.My friend by abstaining trained himself to be faithful to his wife.Which brings up the social side since the family is the corner stone of society by not cheating he is in a since being righteous.Also there are cosmological views at work in his perspective he believes in a day of judgement where every act and every word uttered will be accounted for.Since there are those four key dimensions to human life he thinks submission will better him three hunderd and sixty degress in those areas,fortifying his square of life.Being a father to his child,a strong man for his wife and a productive member of society.A supremely disciplined individual...okay I'm romanticing.

 

Regarding Neil Armstrong and his walk on the moon...I understand language is not primary experience,only secondary experience or it represents the experience.The menu is not the meal.I think a lot of this revolves around subjective truth and so called objective truth.If Neil Armstrong mentions seeing a ufo while on the moon[assuming he's trust worthy] inferences can be made.1.Ufos are real 2. He saw one.3.Certain cherished world views may have to go out the window or be seriously revised.Similar to your mentioning a word of caution to mwright[mo pai guy?] about yin and draining spirits.Inferences can be made about your views on spirits-that they are real.If you are correct then what are the implications?...just like ufos.Of course if some one doesn't believe in objective truth on some level then this is all bullshit!Reminds me of history debates in class about oral history, is it a valid source of history.

 

I practice spring forest at a different time of day is that okay? Or do you mean I should halt all other qi gung practices? I've been using it since last summer.I also practice kong jing, muscle tendon[Da mo] classic, whole body breathing ,bone marrow cleasning, one finger zen,I really like Peng's stuff too.If I stopped all the others I would be fearful of forgeting the forms.I've also attached magnets to key areas [sometimes when practicing]this can create a lot of heat.If I sit next to [without magnets]an electrical socket I seem to sense energy or a feeling of insects moving over my head-maybe just lice eh?Curiously I don't get sore from rigourous workouts and the next day I'm ready to rock!I haven't fully emitted sperm for two or three months now and at times I feel my shirts [especially around the sleeves] being pushed outwards.Two hours is a pretty big commitment just for forms or do you mean sitting in lotus as Chunny directed to do in the course for going deeper?

 

 

My weapons:qi gung,mind workstation,np2.autogenics, biofeedback , nlp,rajayoga,hypnosis,mind spa...anyone messes with me... Methos or Enoch

Edited June 12, 2009 by enouch

[Thunder_Gooch]

I think my head is about to explode. All of this because I asked you what you thought about john chang personally, and you still dodge the question. You could have simply declined it from the start and saved about 20 pages of drama.

 

I should have known better than to try and ask you anything without some drama queen response. You preach a lot about all this love and and heart work, stilling the mind, etc. but you come across as one of the most hateful, argumentative and childish people I've ever had the pleasure of meeting.

 

 

All I can say is the exercises I am aware of are in many other schools that don't cause your heart valve to explode, or at least I've never heard of such occurring in those schools. That could mean either 1. I don't know the real exercises or 2. You have some ulterior motive to discourage people from seeking out the system altogether. I am going with 2 personally, but I don't know what the reason is. Maybe its just sour grapes, the same thing you accuse so many others of having.

 

Peace out guys, Sorry I ruined your thread.

Edited June 12, 2009 by More_Pie_Guy

[enouch]

I think my head is about to explode. All of this because I asked you what you thought about john chang personally, and you still dodge the question. You could have simply declined it from the start and saved about 20 pages of drama.

 

I should have known better than to try and ask you anything without some drama queen response. You preach a lot about all this love and and heart work, stilling the mind, etc. but you come across as one of the most hateful, argumentative and childish people I've ever had the pleasure of meeting.

All I can say is the exercises I am aware of are in many other schools that don't cause your heart valve to explode, or at least I've never heard of such occurring in those schools. That could mean either 1. I don't know the real exercises or 2. You have some ulterior motive to discourage people from seeking out the system altogether. I am going with 2 personally, but I don't know what the reason is. Maybe its just sour grapes, the same thing you accuse so many others of having.

 

Peace out guys, Sorry I ruined your thread.

 

 

I have a very very strong memory and I can deduce from other posts that Becker respects Chang ''he invited us into his home, even though we were not worthy'' that does not sound like a person with an axe to grind.The reason for the secrets are valid on most levels[maybe not all] can you imagine the average Joe with that kind of power? Most human beings can't even master their diets or stop lying.There's a passage from the book of Jermiah which goes ''The human heart is deceitful above all things and subject to monstrous deceits'' Most human beings seem to be neutral or range the spectrum without a firm embracing of moral behaviour.It's really about quality control for the teachers,a filtration process just like becoming a goverment agent our teaching-backround checks so on.Can you imagine a overly political person with those powers?

Edited June 12, 2009 by enouch

[Thunder_Gooch]

I have a very very strong memory and I can deduce from other posts that Becker respects Chang ''he invited us into his home, even though we were not worthy'' that does not sound like a person with an axe to grind.The reason for the secrets are valid on most levels[maybe not all] can you imagine the average Joe with that kind of power? Most human beings can't even master their diets or stop lying.There's a passage from the book of Jermiah which goes ''The human heart is deceitful above all things and subject to monstrous deceits'' Most human beings seem to be neutral or range the spectrum without a firm embracing of moral behaviour.It's really about quality control for the teachers,a filtration process just like becoming a goverment agent our teaching-backround checks so on.Can you imagine a overly political person with those powers?

 

Were debating in a vacuum until mjj graces us with his feelings on the matter, which apparently is not going to happen. Also yes I can see why a neocon with sithlord powers might be a bad thing.

[Mokona]

Before I learned that martial arts movments and meridian stregthening by holding positions I would just walk, slowly and feel my energy expand in and out. Practice the healing modality Reiki and most of my meditation time was done while laying on my bed.

 

I built a large amount of energy and it was without any training. MPG, maybe if you just follow your heart and do the energetic practices that connect with you - you'll find what your looking for. I found mine.

[enouch]

Were debating in a vacuum until mjj graces us with his feelings on the matter, which apparently is not going to happen. Also yes I can see why a neocon with sithlord powers might be a bad thing.

 

Not just neocon but I've heard Chang's teacher or one of his predecessors killed hundreds by destroying a village! No belief required there for it to work gold is heavy just raw attainment of abilities.Let the amazing Randy find some one with that kind of predisposition! That's why I say it may be wise for those secrets to remain secret,learning mo pai won't help you become a master at life.Only Tony Robbins can do that!Joke.

 

Enoch or Methos

 

 

 

 

Were debating in a vacuum until mjj graces us with his feelings on the matter, which apparently is not going to happen. Also yes I can see why a neocon with sithlord powers might be a bad thing.

 

Not just neocon but I've heard Chang's teacher or one of his predecessors killed hundreds by destroying a village! No belief required there for it to work gold is heavy just raw attainment of abilities.Let the amazing Randy find some one with that kind of predisposition! That's why I say it may be wise for those secrets to remain secret,learning mo pai won't help you become a master at life.Only Tony Robbins can do that!Joke.

 

Enoch or Methos

[Thunder_Gooch]

Before I learned that martial arts movments and meridian stregthening by holding positions I would just walk, slowly and feel my energy expand in and out. Practice the healing modality Reiki and most of my meditation time was done while laying on my bed.

 

I built a large amount of energy and it was without any training. MPG, maybe if you just follow your heart and do the energetic practices that connect with you - you'll find what your looking for. I found mine.

 

Mokona,

 

Thanks. I'd say what rudimentary information I have on Long Men Pai, and Spring Forest Qigong probably ring the most true for me in my heart. But I am always searching, I believe there are 10,000 ways to skin a cat, and I am interested in the most effective and efficient ones, and most importantly how and why they work.

 

Mjj and I agree that spring forest is an excellent system although I wonder if he actually studied the same course material I did about it.

 

Not just neocon but I've heard Chang's teacher or one of his predecessors killed hundreds by destroying a village! No belief required there for it to work gold is heavy just raw attainment of abilities.Let the amazing Randy find some one with that kind of predisposition! That's why I say it may be wise for those secrets to remain secret,learning mo pai won't help you become a master at life.Only Tony Robbins can do that!Joke.

 

Enoch or Methos

 

 

 

My goal isn't to become a master at life, or become a better person etc. I simply want to leave this place to exist in some sort of limbo for eternity if that's even possible. My whole interest in MP, LMP, LSD, etc is that these schools offer a path with milestones to pull yourself up by your own bootstraps and break the cycle of reincarnation.

 

I guess a lot of people desire the power to control others my advice to them is to drop out of cultivation and become a politician. I doubt many of the people who seek power for that reason have the patience to meditate daily for 30 years.

Edited June 12, 2009 by More_Pie_Guy

[Mokona]

There are a few types of cultivation and energy work that really have me interested. I can understand wanting to learn everything about them possible.

 

I have ADD, and just today I started trying to use it to my advantage. Being able to ground while going about work, and keeping a sense of my energy while working. With my attention span moving back and forth the way it does, I think to funnel it into more helpful excersises.

[Thunder_Gooch]

There are a few types of cultivation and energy work that really have me interested. I can understand wanting to learn everything about them possible.

 

I have ADD, and just today I started trying to use it to my advantage. Being able to ground while going about work, and keeping a sense of my energy while working. With my attention span moving back and forth the way it does, I think to funnel it into more helpful excersises.

 

 

I am only interested in practices / schools that get results and more importantly the mechanisms behind why they work. I want to build a new conceptual framework for things of this nature, a new map of reality if you will.

[gendao]

I also know for a fact-not opinion-that several students have been seriously injured practising the Mo Pai exercises. One student blew a valve in his heart for example. A simple statement of fact. As another poster also commented on this forum a while back, other students of John Chang have stopped practising his methods due to health issues. So, it isn't just me saying this. Funnily enough, I believe he has also studied some Longmen methods at a seminar in Germany. Oh well.

I was recently warned by someone that MoPai is very dangerous without a master - and to advise friends not to pursue that path. It just may not be worth it, especially off on your own. I think due to the precarious level 3, in particular. I'm guessing levels 1 & 2 are pretty benign. This is not really new news, but I think many of the older intermediate students have gotten pretty ill now. So, it may be a bigger risk than people may have originally thought.

[Thunder_Gooch]

I was recently warned by someone that MoPai is very dangerous without a master - and to advise friends not to pursue that path. It just may not be worth it, especially off on your own. I think due to the precarious level 3, in particular. I'm guessing levels 1 & 2 are pretty benign. This is not really new news, but I think many of the older intermediate students have gotten pretty ill now. So, it may be a bigger risk than people may have originally thought.

 

Vortex,

 

In your opinion did anything you learned at the LMP conference seem dangerous to you? That is assuming the individual practiced it exactly as taught.

[gendao]

Vortex,

 

In your opinion did anything you learned at the LMP conference seem dangerous to you? That is assuming the individual practiced it exactly as taught.

Nope, not that I could tell. Also, LMP hasn't have a rep (that I've heard of) for having potentially dangerous side effects. MoPai has had that (for whatever reason), so it's really no surprise.

I'm concerned for you as your experiences just don't sound right to me. Chi should be HOT. It should not run cold. What you describe sounds like yin, and yin is associated with spirits. I am concerned you may have a 'visitor' you would rather not have. It is not unusual for those with yin experiences to want to kill themselves or 'escape'.

I dunno, I've known various people who can get really cold after energy work - but typically females. I guess this could be yin energy, although I don't think that necessarily means that spirits may get involved. Although, I'm not saying they couldn't, either. I really dunno, just speculating here...

[Thunder_Gooch]

.

Edited January 22, 2014 by Thunder_Gooch

[rodgerj]

Edited March 22, 2010 by rodgerj

[gendao]

Even level one can be dangerous. Because of the level of Yang Qi that is accumulated you can tear the DT if you continue to train and excessively ejaculate (not supposed to really anyway). I myself have had issues with my nuts just as David V supposedly did.

 

There are so many great and complete methods out there now. More importantly there are a number of teachers who are willing to give time and energy to students. Santiago is one of them right here on this board! The allure to want to learn a system like MP is totally understandable. But I can vouch myself having been to Indonesia several times and training with various 'masters' all like Pak John.. Santiago really does have something great to offer.

Interesting, thanks for the explanation. What kinda "nutty" issues have you had, btw? Not trying to pry, but I want to try to avoid such pitfalls in my own practice (not MoPai, but possibly similar in that way). And know just how much ejaculation (if any) I can have while training?

 

Now although I have been intellectually curious about MoPai, I've never been drawn to actually practice it. And may probably never. I think because it does seem to possess such potential for some serious self-injury.

 

Well, I think it really helps to educate people about the specific risks...rather than just blind "fear-mongering" - even if based upon legitimate dangers. So, thanks a lot!

Edited June 12, 2009 by vortex

[rodgerj]

Edited March 22, 2010 by rodgerj

[gendao]

Swelling and pain. My wife was a little concerned to say the least. Just with semen retention you can have issues. But everyone is different. That's why the most important thing is someone at hand who can help.

So, how did you alleviate that?

 

Did you have to choose between stopping training and stopping ejaculation?

 

Also, I have a hunch that semen retention (after arousal) can lead to jing stagnation if your MCO is not opened (and it thus has nowhere to go). Which would then apply to the majority of us...especially if we are training to eventually open the MCO!

[Thunder_Gooch]

I don't know why I posted this, I just found it and has some granted me some much needed laughter. It's not directed at anyone (before I get flamed) just symbolic of my frustration with the argument of "your going to blow yourself up with school X, but choose school Y it's safer but teaches the exact same exercises."

 

Edited June 12, 2009 by More_Pie_Guy

[Mokona]

I am only interested in practices / schools that get results and more importantly the mechanisms behind why they work. I want to build a new conceptual framework for things of this nature, a new map of reality if you will.

 

Like Robert Bruce? Although he doesn't mention using any pre-existing schools or martial application. I think he mentioned just sitting in a chair and working his energy one toe at a time until he had mapped his entire energy body.

 

Edit: THe spirit thing.. Wouldn't it just depend on the spirit? Ran into one that was fairly warm when she gave hugs and held what seemed to be pheonix type energy.

Edited June 12, 2009 by Mokona

[Zhuo Ming-Dao]

Like Robert Bruce? Although he doesn't mention using any pre-existing schools or martial application. I think he mentioned just sitting in a chair and working his energy one toe at a time until he had mapped his entire energy body. smile.gif

 

Edit: THe spirit thing.. Wouldn't it just depend on the spirit? Ran into one that was fairly warm when she gave hugs and held what seemed to be pheonix type energy.

 

The type of spirits that they are talking about are mostly ghosts. Specifically, the dead person's po spirit, which is exclusively yin energy and therefore cold. It causes shivers if you walk through it or if it enters and attempts to possess you. Ghosts can be empowered by siphoning energy from the living and can also cause the living all manner of trouble thereby through this vampirism (this is not necessarily intentional on their part, they are just attracted to what they need). They can also cause nightmares and the like because they through off the yin yang balance needed for proper sleep (in addition to creeping out your subconscious mind, which can detect them around).

 

Whatever spirit you encountered, Mokona, was not the ghost of a dead human. Maybe a nature spirit?

 

 

And I too recommend Robert Bruce, but specifically because he has more hands on experience with ghosts and demons than anyone else I have read. Also, he has a number of great protection techniques for you to add to your practice, MorePiGuy. Pick up a copy of Practical Psychic Self Defense, or go to his website for a few of his countermeasures.

 

http://www.astraldynamics.com/tutorials/ps...ense/index.html

Edited June 12, 2009 by Zhuo Ming-Dao