S.O.S. MJJ Becker!

[enouch]

Hi! I wish to draw insight from your experience with John Chang[having dinner in his house you mentioned] and hearing a spirit speak.What was it like...did it sound like white noise or an audible voice? Jim, said while in his teacher's presence the spirit would appear[could not see it either] but he wasn't advanced enough to hear the voice.When I was a child a relative called me into her room and the television knob kept turning by itself.Not a hallucination since we both saw it! A friend of mine told me he probably wouldn't joke around anymore if he'd had an experience like Moses[met God] so my question for you is...did the experience alter,enhance,reaffirm your morality?[moral choices] Alter your perception of human reality? I'd imagine having certainty of the unknown could be reassuring and daunting.Jim, said on martial arts development blog his experiences led him to draw closer to his God.By the way I've heard Chang actually had a conversation with God[Magnus of Java] Can't imagine the certainty and responsibilty that[to know that God is real] entails!

I apologize if this thread offends you but I liken your experience to meeting a prophet or at least a special person.

 

Enoch or Methos

[mjjbecker]

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Edited July 5, 2009 by mjjbecker

[enouch]

No and no.

 

I recommend Chunyi Lin's biography if you really want some insight as to what is important. Michael Lomax-Ya Mu on this forum-is also worth reading. I haven't read his book yet but will do. Santiago-Vajrasattva on the forum-also.

 

Voices, spirits, qi 'sensations', and being around interesting people are not what matters. Opening the heart and stilling the mind are. The rest are attachments and distractions if you focus on them.

 

 

 

I have Chunyi Lin's spring forest course[Robert Peng's/ken Cohen's also] and I practice it almost everyday.It's really great for healing and energy cultivation.Regarding what is important...A muslim friend of mine abstains from fornication yet remarked to me ''I'm going to be really upset if this God stuff isn't real'' most likely because of the senual pleasure he's missing out on.If he had certainty then he would most likely feel his submission to Allah will ultimately be rewarding.In a similar vein you've told others to earn liberation from rebirth in other posts.When questioned about reincarnation you responded with insights gleaned from personal coversations with Koakas and John Chang, so being around intersting people can help with making distinctions.In the western world we are taught everything is physical and life is an accident,so to find out our reality is a part of a much larger reality speaks vollumes! It's akin to finding out the earth is alive and we must love/nuture it.Nevertheless, it appears the Divine revels in mystery and uncertainty...maybe to maintain our perception[illusion?] of free will.I understand what's important ultimately are values-for me loving the Divine and service to humanity.

 

 

I choose choice! Methos or Enoch

[DaoChild]

Then tell him to experience carnal delights, and then he can fully devote himself. I remember reading about old Quanzhen masters who were encouraged to fully life out their secular life -- have a family, and everything that entails. Only once that desire for "something else" has been eliminated, can you fully be content living as an ascetic or monastic.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[enouch]

Then tell him to experience carnal delights, and then he can fully devote himself. I remember reading about old Quanzhen masters who were encouraged to fully life out their secular life -- have a family, and everything that entails. Only once that desire for "something else" has been eliminated, can you fully be content living as an ascetic or monastic.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

 

Interesting but I think not! What makes you think he hadn't experienced carnal delights before? The temptations of the flesh rarely leave us for good.They can abate for years then resurface, that's the biggest illusion about success.People see success as a static result rather than a habit of mind, a way of life.Besides the statement had more to do with certainty and uncertainty, if you knew with certainty that you'll live for twenty more years[with good health] and wanted to attend medical school you might decide time is on your side.However, if you knew you only had five years you might not want to burn those years in medical school.Time,perspective,distance changes everthing.Likewise if my friend had certainty that Allah is real it would make his perspective even stronger.In the same way Becker's beliefs about reincarnation have been boosted by his talks with Koakas and Chang.Also my friend took an oath-the shahada so I would never encourage him to break it.It would be like Sean Denty,Becker,or Jim giving away Mo pai secrets without permission.Going against their oaths! My friend should only surrender his beliefs if his conscience leads him to that conclusion.

 

Death before dishonour! Methos or Enoch

[froggie]

Interesting but I think not! What makes you think he hadn't experienced carnal delights before? The temptations of the flesh rarely leave us for good.They can abate for years then resurface, that's the biggest illusion about success.People see success as a static result rather than a habit of mind, a way of life.Besides the statement had more to do with certainty and uncertainty, if you knew with certainty that you'll live for twenty more years[with good health] and wanted to attend medical school you might decide time is on your side.However, if you knew you only had five years you might not want to burn those years in medical school.Time,perspective,distance changes everthing.Likewise if my friend had certainty that Allah is real it would make his perspective even stronger.In the same way Becker's beliefs about reincarnation have been boosted by his talks with Koakas and Chang.Also my friend took an oath-the shahada so I would never encourage him to break it.It would be like Sean Denty,Becker,or Jim giving away Mo pai secrets without permission.Going against their oaths! My friend should only surrender his beliefs if his conscience leads him to that conclusion.

 

Death before dishonour! Methos or Enoch

 

i think at least one purpuse of an oath is to try to make sure that it gets into the hands of the people who will use it well, and not into hands of people who will use it ill. that doesn't mean in my opinion that an oath is there to keep it away from everybody.

 

my shiny 2 cents

[h.uriahr]

Interesting but I think not! What makes you think he hadn't experienced carnal delights before? The temptations of the flesh rarely leave us for good.They can abate for years then resurface, that's the biggest illusion about success.People see success as a static result rather than a habit of mind, a way of life.Besides the statement had more to do with certainty and uncertainty, if you knew with certainty that you'll live for twenty more years[with good health] and wanted to attend medical school you might decide time is on your side.However, if you knew you only had five years you might not want to burn those years in medical school.Time,perspective,distance changes everthing.Likewise if my friend had certainty that Allah is real it would make his perspective even stronger.In the same way Becker's beliefs about reincarnation have been boosted by his talks with Koakas and Chang.Also my friend took an oath-the shahada so I would never encourage him to break it.It would be like Sean Denty,Becker,or Jim giving away Mo pai secrets without permission.Going against their oaths! My friend should only surrender his beliefs if his conscience leads him to that conclusion.

 

Death before dishonour! Methos or Enoch

How would one be certain they are in fact meeting Allah? Would meeting Allah really strenghten his faith or weaken it? Would he question whether he had gone mad and was seeing a demonic vision or a made up vision?

[enouch]

How would one be certain they are in fact meeting Allah? Would meeting Allah really strenghten his faith or weaken it? Would he question whether he had gone mad and was seeing a demonic vision or a made up vision?

 

 

It could do both or neither depending on his personality and circumstances.The statement had to do with John Chang or Moses and their remarkable experiences with reality.Also the question was directed at Becker and his insights regarding reality from the interaction.I liken a conversation [assuming he's real] with Chang to be similar to a conversation with Neil Armstrong about his walk on the moon,we can have opinions but he's done it! There's something to be said for objective abilities that transpire in our reality.

Likewise,I don't think my friend would think he'd gone mad at experiencing an angel if there is external evidence-part of the uniformity of exsistence.By the way guys I'm well aware most arguements can be undone by attacking the presuppositions behind them.On the other hand even a person who denies some measure of objective reality looks both ways before crossing the streets!

 

 

I choose choice! Methos or Enoch

[Thunder_Gooch]

Mjjbecker,

 

Just curious, do you dislike Chang? I notice you talk about how dangerous his system is, etc. (even though the exact same exercises are taught in long men pai)

[mjjbecker]

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Edited July 5, 2009 by mjjbecker

[mjjbecker]

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Edited July 5, 2009 by mjjbecker

[Vajrasattva]

No. I have discussed various things with Kostas. With John Chang I sat and listened-there was really no conversation. I've written a LITTLE about these things, including my thoughts and feelings on reincarnation. On that basis I would appreciate it if you did not talk about my beliefs as you don't know me or my thoughts in any depth, thank you.

 

Discussion and conversation are interesting and can be useful, but practice is fundamental. Experience on a direct personal level. You say you do some Spring Forest qigong every day. I would recommend you do that, and that alone, (Chunyi Lin does state people should not mix other methods with his), every day, for at least two hours. Keep going for a few years and see where it takes you.

 

This is not an intellectual exercise of understanding-that is why I wrote before of opening the heart and clearing the mind. These come from practice, be it prayer, or qigong, or meditation, or a combination. In the same way a virgin can talk about and understand how sex is done, it is nothing like the doing. Neil Armstrong can talk about being on the moon, but it can never be the same as being on the moon. In a spiritual practice you strive to experience for yourself. Reading or hearing about it is not and can never be the experience itself.

 

I would say the above applied equally to your friend. I have friends who follow the Sufi path. While I understand many branches of Islam may not approve of the Sufi way, I expect they would not criticise the getting up at three in the morning to pray, or the several hours of prayer a day, or the fasting. I would respectfully submit that your friend should not see his belief in Allah as a barrier to his sex life, but look at how he can open his heart and mind to the love of Allah. Why should Allah or angels prove their existence simply to prevent someone having a fuck? Surely it is for the person to seek understanding? The same applies to anyone in any system of belief.

 

Does opening the heart change a persons FEELINGS about sex? Yes. I hope your friend can find the right person soon.

 

Well being a humble yogi on the Sufi path doing meditation and prayer almost 24/7 aswell there is no issue with being close to Allah in your heart no matter what you are doing (Including the Horizontal Gong Fu ....).

 

Infact Women are to be loved and treated Dear to Allah. Sex is a moment to unify and heal and go beyond the senses & the experience. The zikr is deep in the heart and it will reveal the face of the Beloved.

 

I make love to my wife daily sometimes all day and all I can say is that I know it brings her & I closer to God's Grace.

 

I am sorry I am so quiet on this forum Lately....I am just

 

1) Very Busy with teaching, Healing folks, & taking care of students.

2) devoting a lot of time to my family and 2 year old. : )

3) Traveling a lot.

 

 

Mike I love you brother : ) best wishes

 

ok back to my Cave..

 

Santi

[Thunder_Gooch]

I had some communication with someone who is a student of both Wang Liping and John Chang-not David Verdesi. Let me quote him here:

Having never seen or experienced the Longmen methods, I can't make any comment on how they compare. This person I know for a fact has met both John Chang and Wang Liping. Perhaps you don't actually know the Mo Pai methods as well as you think? It is not simply a matter of the exercise, but how it is done. Something to ponder upon.

 

I also know for a fact-not opinion-that several students have been seriously injured practising the Mo Pai exercises. One student blew a valve in his heart for example. A simple statement of fact. As another poster also commented on this forum a while back, other students of John Chang have stopped practising his methods due to health issues. So, it isn't just me saying this. Funnily enough, I believe he has also studied some Longmen methods at a seminar in Germany. Oh well.

 

Even supposing the methods are similar or the same, your comments here-Matt-are exactly the reason why John Chang and Kostas were so particular about who they taught. Because, there is an oath, like it or not. The method is private. Perhaps Jim should not have broke his oath and taught you, because you clearly don't know how to keep something private. At the very least you have now created an issue for the Longmen school, by making such a comment. What kind of reaction do you think this is going to have? Do you think Wang Liping and his people want to be besieged by a bunch of Mo pai wannabes?

 

And all because you wanted to have a snipe at me?

No actually all he gave me was some basic information on meditation, and that was it, the rest of my knowledge came from other individuals. Everything he taught me is covered somewhere in the Spring Forest Qigong Course, so I don't see how he could have violated any oath helping others meditate correctly, but whatever you believe is fine. He is a really good person, even though you make him out to be an Antichrist.

 

Perhaps your right though my knowledge of the higher levels may not be accurate, but what I have had explained to me was almost identical to exercises we were taught in the initial lmp training. The hand positions and movements were slightly different but the core exercise was preformed the same. Also I have encountered other schools with very similar exercises, these exercises seem to be ubiquitous amongst many taoist qigong schools. Yet there so dangerous you can blow a heart valve, I don't know if I believe that or not.

 

P.S. I am still curious if you dislike Chang, and no this wasn't a snipe at you it was asked as a sincere question.

Edited January 22, 2014 by Thunder_Gooch

[mjjbecker]

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Edited July 5, 2009 by mjjbecker

[Thunder_Gooch]

Mjj,

 

Ouch such a temper for such an enlightened individual. I asked a sincere question what do you think of Chang personally, do you dislike him? Please no more flaming and dodging.

 

I personally get the impression you don't like him, am I wrong?

Edited June 12, 2009 by More_Pie_Guy

[Thunder_Gooch]

Either Jim showed it to you or in all likely hood no one did-because they don't know it.

 

 

I was given some basic information on meditation that was it bro, I seriously have no clue how that is this huge deal your making it out to be.

[11:33]

MorePieGuy,

 

If you don't think MoPai neigong can blow a heart valve, you don't understand the power these arts can have. Mo Pai is specifically dangerous.

 

If you for some reason know this stuff and want to do it on your own, I can't stop you, but I encourage you not to.

 

All the Best,

Alex

[Thunder_Gooch]

MorePieGuy,

 

If you don't think MoPai neigong can blow a heart valve, you don't understand the power these arts can have. Mo Pai is specifically dangerous.

 

If you for some reason know this stuff and want to do it on your own, I can't stop you, but I encourage you not to.

 

All the Best,

Alex

 

I don't think basic meditation is going cause your heart valve to blow up, I don't think basic qigong exercises will cause your heart valve to blow up. I don't think anything I learned about LMP, or spring forest qigong is going to cause a heart valve to explode. I could be wrong though I've been wrong many times in the past. I can't comment on higher levels as I know nothing about them.

[11:33]

I don't think basic meditation is going cause your heart valve to blow up, I don't think basic qigong exercises will cause your heart valve to blow up. I don't think anything I learned about LMP, or spring forest qigong is going to cause a heart valve to explode. I could be wrong though I've been wrong many times in the past. I can't comment on higher levels as I know nothing about them.

 

I don't think anything I learned in Spring Forest Qigong would cause those heart problems either. There must be more to MoPai than these methods.

[Thunder_Gooch]

I don't think anything I learned in Spring Forest Qigong would cause those heart problems either. There must be more to MoPai than these methods.

 

I will tell you what I think, I think mjj feels special and wants to keep it that way. The more people who seek masters like chang, liping, etc the less he has to feel special about. I've met people with his personality in the linux circles, "if everyone learns linux we wont be ubergeeks anymore therefore its in our best interests to maintain the status quo", they like pound out the mantra that "linux is hard to use, and you can screw your computer up with linux". I think mjj belongs to this elitist mindset, that's just my $0.02

Edited June 12, 2009 by More_Pie_Guy

[11:33]

Or he legitimately wants to see you live a long fruitful life with a functionaing heart, because he perceived you as someone who would run headlong into danger practicing methods you got second hand off someone, thinking you could never have something bad happen, but you don't fully understand the practice and he can see that from your posts.

 

It's one or the other No shot at you MPG, just be careful

 

All the Best

[Thunder_Gooch]

Or he legitimately wants to see you live a long fruitful life with a functionaing heart, because he perceived you as someone who would run headlong into danger practicing methods you got second hand off someone, thinking you could never have something bad happen, but you don't fully understand the practice and he can see that from your posts.

 

It's one or the other No shot at you MPG, just be careful

 

All the Best

 

I think if mjj's motivation was love for his fellow man he wouldn't be such an ass about it. I asked one simple little question and it blew up into this. I don't get it.

Edited June 12, 2009 by More_Pie_Guy

[Ken]

I will tell you what I think, I think mjj feels special and wants to keep it that way. The more people who seek masters like chang, liping, etc the less he has to feel special about. I've met people with his personality in the linux circles, "if everyone learns linux we wont be ubergeeks anymore therefore its in our best interests to maintain the status quo", they like pound out the mantra that "linux is hard to use, and you can screw your computer up with linux". I think mjj belongs to this elitist mindset, that's just my $0.02

 

Seems like you are the real ass here and not Mike. I think you should listen to his advice of not mixing different practices together, those are wise words.

[Thunder_Gooch]

Seems like you are the real ass here and not Mike. I think you should listen to his advice of not mixing different practices together, those are wise words.

 

Ken,

 

I respect your opinion, but I disagree. I asked a simple question, and didn't start the flame war.

 

In regards to mixing practices, that may well be good advice. Right now what I am attempting to do is learn about different effective practices and learn why and how they work, and gain a conceptual understanding. I am not content just to know a practice, but I am more concerned with how and why it functions.

 

My apologies if I somehow offended you, I actually think a lot of you and your school. Yes, honestly.

 

-mpg

[mjjbecker]

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Edited July 5, 2009 by mjjbecker