Tabula Rasa Posted June 12, 2009 Disagree. Just because you failed in your search doesn't mean the treasure isn't still buried somewhere. jewel in lotus nothing hidden to be found treasure in plain sight failing in the search beautiful moment of truth death before dying Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
forestofclarity Posted June 12, 2009 The great Way is easy, yet people prefer the side paths. Be aware when things are out of balance. Stay centered within the Tao. TTC 53 Nice haiku, TR. jewel in lotus nothing hidden to be found treasure in plain sight failing in the search beautiful moment of truth death before dying Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taoist81 Posted June 12, 2009 (edited) Being an old hippie I can speak from lots of experience that nope, psychedelic drugs will not give you enlightenment. After you are done with your inquiry/investigation as to whether they will; I suggest that you move on to asking whether there is any such thing as enlightenment. There is no such thing as enlightenment, so don't bother looking for it. Be now. While not disputing your conclusion about enlightenment, and with all due respect, there are lots of things that you old hippies "toyed around with" irresponsibly. Just like a lot of the early ravers, too many people got a "shiny new toy" and blew their minds, had bad stuff happen and blame the TOOL, not the way it was used. It is not something that hippies should be blamed for necessarily, it happens every time a new generation discovers something the previous generation didn't know. Fortunately, many in the generations that follow can learn from the mistakes of the former (even though many still don't). If you get rid of prohibition, then people will learn to be responsible with these substances. Either way though, as you say, "Be Now". Edited June 12, 2009 by Taoist81 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tabula Rasa Posted June 12, 2009 While not disputing your conclusion about enlightenment, and with all due respect, there are lots of things that you old hippies "toyed around with" irresponsibly. Just like a lot of the early ravers, too many people got a "shiny new toy" and blew their minds, had bad stuff happen and blame the TOOL, not the way it was used. It is not something that hippies should be blamed for necessarily, it happens every time a new generation discovers something the previous generation didn't know. Fortunately, many in the generations that follow can learn from the mistakes of the former (even though many still don't). If you get rid of prohibition, then people will learn to be responsible with these substances. Ut oh.....I tossed the stick...and I see that some are still looking at the finger instead of the moon it points at. I had no bad experiences, and I do not regret my choices from youth....neither the discoveries from experimentation, nor the dropping away of using substances and the choice for other types of practice. I make no judgments of other peoples choices. I return to haiku.... jewel in lotus nothing hidden to be found treasure in plain sight failing in the search beautiful moment of truth death before dying Peace, Carol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted June 12, 2009 stagnant river bed someday the flood will rush through nothing will remain Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gendao Posted June 12, 2009 I personally know more then one person whose perception has completely changed permanently due to certain meditative practices. And others, including myself who have had vivid experiences of different perception (without external agents like 'drugs'). I have also read of people I do not know that have had the same such as our resident DarinHamel. So what happens during these experiences neurologically? or physiologically? Anyway... I would be amazed if an educated answer to any of this get posted. The word 'drug' seems to have to many negative connotations. So I think I will bow out of this one :-)Well, with drugs, I've only heard that it gave people temporary glimpses, but nothing lasting. As opposed to meditation, which is what leads to lasting changes. Also, Max has said that these drug-induced highs are using our lifeforce as fuel, so you are paying for them with reduced longevity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taoist81 Posted June 12, 2009 I had no bad experiences, and I do not regret my choices from youth....neither the discoveries from experimentation, nor the dropping away of using substances and the choice for other types of practice. I make no judgments of other peoples choices. Ah, then, apologies for the misunderstanding of your meaning behind your words. it sounded like what some former hippies say when they blame substances used irresponsibly for their own personal mistakes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gendao Posted June 12, 2009 When we are born, die and while we sleep the pineal pumps it out (it's what causes dreaming vision during REM). It looks as though a partial result of third eye openings or pineal activation is concomitant with permanent release of elevated DMT. We should not perceive at it as a 'drug'. It's a neurotransmitter, or as Dr Rick Strassman put it 'The Spirit Molecule' I should point out that I am not advocating anyone experiment with it!! I just find it fascinating that this substance appears to be the catalyst to the perception of normally unobservable dimensions/beings and the realisation of our true nature.. So from an alchemical perspective; 1) Is the pineal production and release of DMT (in augmented amounts) what allows us to 'see' our true nature? 2) Would preemptively introducing DMT from an external source corrupt or compliment other alchemy Well, I think the problem with taking such substances externally longterm is down-regulation of our own natural production via biofeedback. It's like if you started taking testosterone injections. Your own testosterone production would drop off and you might even produce more estrogen to compensate (leading to bitch tits). So, the more crutches you use, the weaker you become. Hence, I think it's better to maximize your own natural production of DMT by opening your pineal and sleeping in the dark (technically, you can just wear an eyemask at night to block any ambient light from your eyes). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unconditioned Posted June 12, 2009 Being an old hippie I can speak from lots of experience that nope, psychedelic drugs will not give you enlightenment. After you are done with your inquiry/investigation as to whether they will; I suggest that you move on to asking whether there is any such thing as enlightenment. There is no such thing as enlightenment, so don't bother looking for it. Be now. The more I'm on TTB I constantly notice the limitations of words getting in the way of communication. The idea of enlightenement is just an idea. So in that sense it's not real (except as a mental construct). However, as soon as we try to give BEING, Truth, God, 'Self', Emptiness, a name... we've already miscommunicated. So to say there's no such thing as enlightenment is both true and false and neither true or false. It's a label. To the original question: everyone's experiences are in context of their conditioning. Psychedelic drugs expose you to the idea that what you took to be real may not be the case. So in that sense I think they're a useful tool, it's even been suggested that these have aided human evolution in the sense of being able to be imaginative/creative and a few other areas. Jury is still out on that one but it's an interesting idea... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheSongsofDistantEarth Posted June 12, 2009 http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/writin...off_using.shtml Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest paul walter Posted June 13, 2009 Psychedelic Drugs/ Do They Give You Enlightenment? Yes, haven't you noticed? Paul. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
