Psychedelic Drugs/ Do They Give You Enlightenment?

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Psychedelic Drugs/ Do They Give You Enlightenment?

[solxyz]

yes

[Pranaman]

no, but a healthy relationship with psychedelic plants can empower your intention to lose judgement, identification with mind, and to open your heart. It's not the plant, it's you and your intention ultimately.

[Sunya]

do a search man, plenty of past discussions about this

 

i helped you out

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=9567

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=4198

 

 

as you can tell, iused to have a big interest in psychs, but after experimentation I realized they were entertaining, but nothign to do with enlightenment, you might have to experiment yourself to come to this conclusion though

Edited June 11, 2009 by mikaelz

[DalTheJigsaw123]

do a search man, plenty of past discussions about this

 

i helped you out

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=9567

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=4198

as you can tell, iused to have a big interest in psychs, but after experimentation I realized they were entertaining, but nothign to do with enlightenment, you might have to experiment yourself to come to this conclusion though

 

 

I have read the past threads, I haven't really found what I was looking for. Hope this thread is O.K.

[Sunya]

I have read the past threads, I haven't really found what I was looking for. Hope this thread is O.K.

 

what are you looking for?

 

what is enlightenment to you?

[DalTheJigsaw123]

what are you looking for?

 

what is enlightenment to you?

 

Still searching man. I am not quite sure if there is such a thing. I suppose Nirvana exist, but I am not sure.

[DaoChild]

No, they only cloud your judgment.

[Taoist81]

Like anyting else, it depends on how they are used. If "just" to party, then, no, no more than fruit loops. If used to purposely explore other aspects of yourself and consciousness/reality, then, yes, they can be a useful tool on the path. However, on their own, they are only a means, not an end. Even the shamen who use enthenogens regularly for spiritual work, they have "methods" they use with them, meditation, sweatlodges, etc.

[Inedible]

Is there something wrong with taking drugs just to have fun?

[Dainin]

"Walking on water wasn't built in a day" -- Jack Kerouac's comment to Timothy Leary regarding this. (Of course Kerouac drank himself to death instead...)

[Ya Mu]

Is there something wrong with taking drugs just to have fun?

 

Yes, can screw up your energetics and neuro system big time.

[chrisjswanson]

Ah psychedelics.

 

They may bring about things you find wonderful at the time.

 

Later you may hate those same things.

 

Later still you may be quite glad regardless of whether you ever took a psychedelic drug.

 

I don't think "good" or "bad" are adequate tools / concepts, and I'm pretty sure you can find some really respectable people who will answer this same question in opposite ways.

 

peace+love

Chris

[Sunya]

Still searching man. I am not quite sure if there is such a thing. I suppose Nirvana exist, but I am not sure.

 

searching is good, and so is being doubtful.

my suggestion is, before asking for directions to get somewhere, figure out where that somewhere is. enlightenment means different things to different people. many people who do LSD think they are enlightened (like a good friend of mine, who thinks he becomes Buddha for 12 hours), they equate enlightenment with bliss, wonder, and a deeper perception into reality. I have a different view on the matter and had interesting experiences experimenting with mescaline, mushrooms, and LSD but they really did nothing for my goal. this was back when I was seeking experiences, and yeah I got some. if you want some mind-blowing experiences.. go for it. just be sure to have a stable meditative foundation first

[rodgerj]

Edited March 22, 2010 by rodgerj

[Siliconvalley1]

they equate enlightenment with bliss, wonder, and a deeper perception into reality.

 

Totally true ... and while on Psychedelics, even these states mistaken for enlightenment are hardly the bliss or a definitive cognition attained after years of practice. It's a movie, within a movie...that's all

[Pranaman]

Why is it, that Yogis can not feel the effects of extremely high dosages of LSD? (Ram Dass's experience with his Yoga teacher in India, read Remember, Be Here Now)

 

It shows me that there is a higher power than hallucinogenics. But the fact that the Yogi would take the dose, also shows me that there is no energetic harm to be done. I believe the harm is in thoughts and attachment.

[Taoist81]

Is there something wrong with taking drugs just to have fun?

 

No, not at all. Life is to be enjoyed. Though, using enthenogens for fun is not necessarily spiritual practice. On the other hand, one can certainly enjoy using them for spiritual practice.

[Siliconvalley1]

But the fact that the Yogi would take the dose, also shows me that there is no energetic harm to be done.

 

A Yogi could take a dose or not and it would probably not matter to him at all based on his level of attainment. But that's true for a Yogi, not for those aspiring to be yogis

[Encephalon]

My experience with psychedelics was resoundingly positive, so much so that I probably did more than my share but, hey, that was over a quarter century ago... except for those mushrooms on the Norcal coast back in the 90s...

 

I suspect a person's state of consciousness has more to do with the overall experience than the catalyzing molecule. I've tripped with intellectually dull people who just sat around and laughed at their own visual constructions, while I was rendered utterly mystified and astounded by all that unfolded. These same folks accused me of lying about my experiences. The most moving and consciousness-shifting experience I had was one of depersonalization - the "self" dissoves, distinctions between self and not-self completely disappear and the feeling of oneness and bliss is so fucking awesome, even if it is artifically induced, that it is worth having just once, even if it were to be clinically controlled and moderated to ensure safety. This experience of interconnectedness - Indra's Net - is what we're after because it's the real nature of the phenomenal world, but the delusion of an isolated, independent, and socially constructed self keeps us from realizing this.

 

Alas, the experience doesn't last, so our challenge, for the rest of our lives, is to re-experience those organic linkages with everything and everyone we come into contact with, until the definition of interdependency and social conscience are one and the same. It may be a challenge, but if we start with the connections that are obvious - all the friends, family members and the rest of the entities that we are ecologically beholden too and dependent upon, we can slowly allow this interdependency to transform our consciousness more and more.

 

Joanna Macy is the Queen! "The Dharma of Natural Systems: Mutual Causality in Buddhism and General Systems Theory" is THE best work that explicates this whole phenomena. The whole intellectual side of Buddhism, as espoused in the Paticca Samuppada, the doctrine of Dependent Co-Arising, details the essence of this interdependency. It has never received that amount of attention that has been given to Buddhism's moral teachings, but the Buddha said that if you fail to deeply internalize the essence of interdependency, enlightment will forever escape you.

 

So, do yer mushrooms, laugh yer ass off, read this book, get an ecological education, and fasten yer seatbelts.

 

PS - depersonalization has also been registered as a profoundly terrifying experience by emotionally tender people. Be cool. Be responsible. Don't trip and trepidate.

[Tabula Rasa]

Being an old hippie I can speak from lots of experience that nope, psychedelic drugs will not give you enlightenment.

 

After you are done with your inquiry/investigation as to whether they will; I suggest that you move on to asking whether there is any such thing as enlightenment.

 

There is no such thing as enlightenment, so don't bother looking for it.

 

Be now.

[Aetherous]

Disagree. Just because you failed in your search doesn't mean the treasure isn't still buried somewhere.

 

As to whether psychedelic drugs give enlightenment, the answer depends on which type of enlightenment you're referring to.

Edited June 11, 2009 by Scotty

[forestofclarity]

I don't know why people look for a "spiritual" justification to do drugs. If you want to do drugs, do drugs. The overwhelming majority of spiritual traditions come down against drugs. The minor exceptions tend to be shamanic cultures that use drugs in specific ways, in specific contexts, always under the supervision of a master.

 

Sure, drugs can be mind opening. So can a brutal car accident, falling off a cliff, electrocution and near death experiences. Wouldn't advise cultivating these, though.

[rodgerj]

Edited March 22, 2010 by rodgerj

[Pranaman]

note too, that Rick Strassman, the doctor who ran research on DMT with hundreds of patients, has a background in Zen Buddhism. The buddhist community puts down his research actually. Anyway, His belief is that DMT exists in our body to allow us to feel energy.

 

My experience verifies this for me personally, not scientifically. The last few times I did DMT, or Mushrooms.... my fears and joys were amplified, and I could work with these emotions like they were a substance in the air and in my body. Just like energy. Practicing presence around these energies was difficult, but definitely gave me some good practice.