This is what chi really is

[Ramon25]

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles...ry-But-Why.aspx

 

watch the video

[orb]

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles...ry-But-Why.aspx

 

watch the video

 

 

That was quite interesting. Thank you very much for sharing.

His name sounds very familiar for some reason....

Anybody has more info on this guy.?... I'd b inclined to get his books...

Edited June 13, 2009 by orb

[Martial Development]

Thank goodness, a Caucasian man has finally discovered what chi really is.

 

Seriously though, it is an interesting topic. Both Reich and Mesmer were demonized as "sexual predators" by competing businessmen.

[froggie]

nice apparatus, the one on the 2 photo's which measure the apple.

does anyone know what it measures? what kind of a scale it uses? and maybe the mechanism?

[affenbrot]

nice apparatus, the one on the 2 photo's which measure the apple.

does anyone know what it measures? what kind of a scale it uses? and maybe the mechanism?

detailed description of the aparatus here: www.orgonelab.org/cart/ylemeter.htm

[Ramon25]

Thank goodness, a Caucasian man has finally discovered what chi really is.

 

Seriously though, it is an interesting topic. Both Reich and Mesmer were demonized as "sexual predators" by competing businessmen.

 

Yeah because they saw the importance of sex in the context of what it did and how it interacted with orgone (chi) just like daoist. What is interesting is that he discovered this before Chi/daosim/chinese medicine became known around the world or was even seriously practiced anywhere. He found it and could measure it to a science and found in it the SAME properties that the chinsese have for thousands of years. That is by far trully amazing.

[nac]

Aikidoists told me ki is all about balance and timing.

 

http://nccam.nih.gov/health/whatiscam/energy/energymed.htm

 

PS. Posting these isn't against the forum rules, is it?

[dwai]

Yeah because they saw the importance of sex in the context of what it did and how it interacted with orgone (chi) just like daoist. What is interesting is that he discovered this before Chi/daosim/chinese medicine became known around the world or was even seriously practiced anywhere. He found it and could measure it to a science and found in it the SAME properties that the chinsese have for thousands of years. That is by far trully amazing.

 

China, Japan, Korea, India are not "anywhere"?

[Ramon25]

Um those traditions were very obscure in the 1940's. Kept to smaller more "closed door" groups or at best not really translated into other languages or not fully understood by outside cultures. TCM was not even put together until the 1940's or 1950's I think. Those teachings were more than likely not available to him or to many others. So yeah "anywhere"

[froggie]

i like that it is more scientific/logical than philosophic/mystic. they compliment eachother some times imo.

[Guest paul walter]

Um those traditions were very obscure in the 1940's. Kept to smaller more "closed door" groups or at best not really translated into other languages or not fully understood by outside cultures. TCM was not even put together until the 1940's or 1950's I think. Those teachings were more than likely not available to him or to many others. So yeah "anywhere"

Not quite true-it can be conjectured that the intro of Chinese and Indian physics has had a huge influence on 'Western' physics brought in by a few individuals like Neils Bohr (who obviously got exposed to something in China that blew his mind, least of all the I-Ching, which has been influencing western thinkers and scientists deeply since the 1600's). If you read his science you see clearly the binary/ complementary opposites approach to be found in all taoist explanations of the universe. In fact it IS Taoist science, and Bohr acknowledged his source as well, unlike so many others.-- worth looking into. The quantum physicists of the 20's-40's were a "closed door" group and as such all debated and roughly knew what was going on with each other, which leads to Reich et al. Also TCM is a watered down version of 'real' Chinese medicine, designed so as to be taught and practiced in much the same way as what we call allopathic medicine (mainstream medicine) in the west. One of Mao and company's Great Bastardisations. Paul.

[Ramon25]

neils bohr went to china. I am not sure if wilhem reich did or did not. There were not a bucnh of publications or readily available information in the 40's. Wilhem reich accidently discovered this he was not looking for chi.unlike bohr who was trying to make sense of what he was seeing at the subatomic level, so he hunted down verything he could. I have not read the I ching but is there alot of mention to Chi and what it does in there?

[exorcist_1699]

I am not sure wthether they are the same thing or not, but it sounds having many characteristics similar to the Taoist theory , at least at its jing-qi level .

 

However, ancient Chinese were never any objective observers of their universe, so when they discovered qi through their body, which of course was a medium of discovering, measuring and testing of what they found , the main concern they had was how to absorb this energy for personal benefit or human emancipation so that forever health and immortality could be attained. As most people were unable to be persuaded into believing physical immortality, the only way left was to keep it as a secret legacy among a very small group of gifted people, passing from generation to generation .

 

One important defect in Reich's way is that it clearly is one-way and 100% material , there is no delicate , interactive relationship between humans and the universe , like the Taoist jing-qi-shen way , to absorb the said energy into us and manipulate it , let alone a complicated system like the one in TCM which shows us how qi and jing rise, sink, contract, expand , counteract....in our body ; let alone using the power of shen , making ourselves into god-like figures.

Edited June 15, 2009 by exorcist_1699

[WhiteTiger]

So if we assume the orgone energy theory. (which I'm not disputing weather its true or not)

 

It claims that it improves peoples sexuality and growth. This may be beneficial if we are a dying race.

 

I don't think our race is dying currently. Maybe suffering.

[nac]

Do you know why mainstream science was unimpressed with this theory?

 

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/rogerm...ield_meter.html

[enouch]

So if we assume the orgone energy theory. (which I'm not disputing weather its true or not)

 

It claims that it improves peoples sexuality and growth. This may be beneficial if we are a dying race.

 

I don't think our race is dying currently. Maybe suffering.

 

 

Is this chi? Chunnyi Lynn refers to chi as magnetic field-I just thought Drew was eccentric!

Hunt carried out a series of ingenious experiments with profound implications for athletic performance. In one experiment, subjects were placed in a Mu Room, a shielded room in the physics department at UCLA, where the natural electromagnetic energy of the air can be altered and manipulated without changing the gravitational force or the oxygen content.

 

As electromagnetic energy was gradually removed from the room, the subjects became confused and disoriented: "Sensory feedback was so impaired that subjects were totally unaware of the location of their bodies in space."

 

Hunt describes the subjects bursting into tears and sobbing. And, "although they reported they were not sad, their bodies responded as though they were threatened."

 

Next, Hunt kept the electrical energy in the room normal, but decreased the magnetism. The dramatic result was gross lack of coordination. "The entire neurological mechanism was thrown off. Subjects could not balance their bodies; they had difficulty touching finger to nose or performing simple coordinated movements. They lost kinesthetic awareness." ("No, officer, I'm not drunk. The reason I can't touch my nose with my finger is because I just came from the Mu Room.")

 

Then, "when the magnetic state was increased beyond the normal state," Hunt writes, "subjects could stand easily on one foot, even on tiptoes, or lean to previously impossible angles without falling. Motor coordination had somehow improved."

 

Apparently, the process of movement and coordination is related not just to interaction with the earth's gravitational field, but to its environmental electromagnetic field as well.

 

Hunt's findings led her to speculate about "the possibility of training athletes and rehabilitating those with muscular disabilities in a strong magnetic energy field." The Vital Energy Machine appears to do just that.

 

Using the Vital Energy Machine

 

Nothing could be easier than using the VE Machine, which engulfs the user in a rich electromagnetic field. By temporarily increasing the intensity and availability of these natural energies, a person using the machine improves his or her motor skills, coordination, stamina, mental clarity and feelings of well being, all necessary for optimal performance.

 

The user (stripped of metallic items, including rings, watches, necklaces, keys, etc.) simply sits with the machine for five to 20 minutes per session, every other day. On the day of an athletic event, he or she does a 20-minute session at least one hour before performing. The hands hold what looks like a child's play steering wheel, while the feet are placed flat on a magnetic plate. Soothing natural electrical energy flows through the hands and feet, while electromagnetic energy emanating from the unit bathes the entire body.

 

The experience feels good, and most people emerge from their first session with the machine wearing a wide, beatific smile.

 

The VE Machine Story

 

Larry Azure, 63, the driving force behind Rejuvenetics and the VE Machine, is an unlikely protagonist in this story. An electrical engineer-- turned-entrepreneur, he retired in 1994 after having brought three high-tech companies public: Pacer Corp., Wall Data Corp. and Voicecom Data Systems. He doesn't need the money and he doesn't need the tsuris. What impels him, though, are his own experiences with bio-electromagnetism and his desire to partake in a worthwhile endeavor that will enhance the human condition. Sounds hokey, I know, but the guy's for real.

 

The story of the development of the VE device almost sounds apocryphal. In 1996, a young inventor, knowing of Azure's interest in edgy, high-tech ideas, brought him an early prototype of what since has become a much more sophisticated instrument. Azure kept it in his basement, playing with it intermittently as he and some colleagues worked on developing it.

 

Here's how he tells the story: "There was a small fichus tree near the device that we had put aside because it had not been watered for months and appeared to be dead. One night, my wife, Judy, called me downstairs and told me to look at the plant. It was budding and growing new leaves-and pointing itself directly toward the machine.

 

"A few days later, Judy suggested I try the device on my 14-year-old Brittany spaniel, Rip. At 14, the vet told me, Rip was at the maximum life-- span of Brittany spaniels and was fast going downhill. He had stopped running with me about a year earlier and, by then, was unable to stand on all fours.

 

"After treating Rip a very few times, he not only was standing, but exhibiting enthusiasm, wagging his tail and regaining his old personality. I decided to have him join me again on my daily 45-minute run, and he kept up. He ran with me another two years. The last time I saw him, he was chasing a rabbit into the bushes. A mountain lion probably got him."

 

These serendipitous anecdotes made a believer of Azure. "Up until Rip's rejuvenation, I was pretty laid-back about the machine. Now I decided to take it seriously."

 

A small human trial involving six late-stage AIDS patients (and four patients suffering from chronic fatigue) was authorized by the National Institutes of Health and conducted by the New York Health and Healing Center. The Center had been asked by the NIH to conduct alternative treatments and trials on volunteer late-stage AIDS patients. The AIDS patients exhibited thrush (an inability to swallow), Kaposi's sarcoma, night sweats, sleeplessness, an inability to concentrate and a host of other symptoms.

 

I obtained a copy of the Center's report. After 12 weeks of treatment with the bio-electromagnetic device, the report states, the patients were "in vibrant good health," with their symptoms dramatically reduced or completely removed. The AIDS patients were still HIV-positive, but their symptoms were gone.

 

In a follow-up, one year later, all of the patients had maintained a symptom-free life and all were working.

 

This small formal trial encouraged the continued development of the machine, Azure says. He formed Rejuvenetics and, after five additional years of development and experimentation, decided to enter the athletic performance market.

 

A Demonstration

 

In early May, Azure and another Rejuvenetics officer, Steve Baker, flew to Phoenix to meet with me and two of the smartest, most creative swim coaches in the swim biz: Bob Gillett and Ron Johnson. Bob is the brilliant, tech-savvy coach of Arizona Desert Fox. Along with his swimmer, Misty Hyman, he invented the underwater, on-your-side fly, and he currently is working on new applications of leading-edge technology to swimming training. Ron, head honcho of Sun Devils Masters and the only coach ever to be named both the collegiate and Masters Coach of the Year, is the inventor of the world's most popular hand paddles. He is also, arguably, the greatest male swimmer in the world over the age of 70. 1 knew these guys would ask skeptical, hard-hitting questions. They did. And after five intense hours of a far-ranging discussion, they acknowledged that there just might be some merit to this strange-looking contraption. Larry agreed to leave the device in Phoenix so we could experiment with it.

 

Good, Good, Good, Good Vibrations

 

After learning how to use the machine (which is so easy even I had no trouble), we tried it out on a number of individuals. The results ranged from the subtle to the dramatic.

 

On the dramatic end, take the case of one very skeptical 65-year-old woman. Extremely active all her life, she has suffered from severe arthritis for about 10 years and has been unable to get up from a lying position without assistance. After one 12-minute treatment, she sprang up from a lying position like an athletic woman half her age.

 

I was dumbfounded. I felt like I was at a revival meeting.

 

"Heal!," it seems I'd said. And she was healed.

 

"No one's going to believe this," I mumbled to myself. "Heck, I observed the whole thing, and I'm not sure I believe it."

 

Then there was the case of Ron Johnson, himself. Ron is a super-athletic chap who has kept himself in superb condition all his life. Earlier in 2002, he had undergone both knee and groin surgery, leaving him inflexible (for him) and unable to squat more than a few inches. After his first session with the VE Machine, he immediately did a fast set of 20 full squats. Without pain.

 

"Ron," I said. "Are you sure you couldn't do these 15 minutes ago?" Grinning from ear to ear, he said: "Absolutely. This is amazing."

 

After that experience, Ron did sessions every other day and began tearing up the pool in practice, swimming repeats at national record pace for his age group. Then: another injury, just 10 days before USMS Nationals in Honolulu. A large golf ball-sized cyst, known as a Baker's Cyst, formed behind his left knee. There's no treatment for a Baker's Cyst; it hurts. If you're lucky, it subsides gradually.

 

Ron was unable to kick breaststroke at all, and any kick was painful. He contemplated withdrawing from the meet even as he kept up his every-- other-day VE sessions. Though it did not disappear, the cyst grew smaller very quickly, diminishing to the size of a marble. The pain subsided, and Ron decided to go to Hawaii.

 

At the USMS Nationals, Ron swam six events and won them all in national record time for men 70-74. Although his times in five events were not as fast as he'd anticipated going before the Baker's cyst, they were much faster than he'd even dreamed of going after contracting the cyst. In one event-the 200 IM-he surpassed even his own lofty expectations.

 

"This is incredible," Johnson told me. "I was so incapacitated I was going to scratch the entire meet. Instead, the VE Machine got me back into the water and allowed me to swim much faster than I thought I could go."

 

Julio Santos, a world-class swimmer from Ecuador, is another swimmer who feels he has benefited from the VE Machine's good vibrations. An Olympic semifinalist in the 50 meter free (22.32), Santos underwent shoulder surgery several months ago but was not healing quickly. Even a series of cortisone shots had only helped a little. Santos had about a half dozen "handson" sessions on the machine before leaving for Croatia for the summer, and said the VE Machine has "helped a lot."

[Aetherous]

enouch,

 

Can you provide a link to where that information came from? I'm mainly interested in if there is any published info from Hunt's magnetism study. That was very interesting!

[enouch]

enouch,

 

Can you provide a link to where that information came from? I'm mainly interested in if there is any published info from Hunt's magnetism study. That was very interesting!

 

 

 

Just type in vital energy machine good vibrations and it'll take you to the full article.The machine is in production now but probally to expensive for most would be home users.It's available at clinics.

 

 

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[Ramon25]

[nac]

Its so freaking funny that mainstream science thinks it has all the answers or better yet that it's method are the only ones that can and oes produce them.

I don't think so. How can "science" think anything?

 

Anyway, I'm not seeking to objectify anything. I'm just suggesting that we examine every side of the issue for ourselves before reaching definite conclusions. Eg. I'm not going to try and stop you from thinking in terms of orgone energy as long as you bear in mind that all it's observed effects (spinning motor, etc) can be predicted by basic electromagnetism. Maybe there's only a difference in semantics?

Edited June 15, 2009 by nac

[Ramon25]

I don't think so. How can "science" think anything?

 

Anyway, I'm not seeking to objectify anything. I'm just suggesting that we examine every side of the issue for ourselves before reaching definite conclusions. Eg. I'm not going to try and stop you from thinking in terms of orgone energy as long as you bear in mind that all it's observed effects (spinning motor, etc) can be predicted by basic electromagnetism. Maybe there's only a difference in semantics?

 

Oh see my friend what is accepted today as science is mostly thinking. We are not trully analyzing both sides of the equation as science accepts that everything can be reduced to the objective and minute as OPPOSED to the subjective and whole. Science accetps everything as a function of matter and measurments as OPPOSED to the immaterial and transcendent. Both are aspects of nature and both should be honored in the way we interpret information but are not because of the incredible bias the filters todays science. This fragmented view is no more reality than the gods "create lightning when angry" Many people have alot of 'FAITH' yes FAITH in what science tells us about the world. science CAN explain how lightning is made but what if thats the way gods make their spark when they are pissed, we do not know that. Let me make it clear (we dont know) and science seeks to answer what is beyond its scope by telling us that god does not exist because look this explanation fits all the criteria WE have set up for it. yeah very convienient. Dont take my analogy literally its just an example But its all a function of what is CURRENLTY accepted as the way to explain the universe, As a human being we are subject to many natural and unatural forces that may have alot more to do with the way we view space, time and reality than we may currently know. It's possible and likely that our view of these aspects will change and REALITY itself as a consequence will change with it and that is my point to you my friend.

all the best

[Ya Mu]

Chunnyi Lynn refers to chi as magnetic field...

 

Qi has electromagnetic components but other components as well. Infrasonic, etc.

For studies, see Qigong Institute database for huge database of abstracts. I have seen EMF standing waves set up by qi projection (or rather seen the measurements of the standing waves.) What was interesting was that it took a period of time for each standing wave to dampen out, even when the qi manipulation was ceased. I believe at some point science will catch up with more sensitive measuring equipment so that we can see the huge spectrum of qi.

[enouch]

Chunnyi Lynn refers to chi as magnetic field...

 

Qi has electromagnetic components but other components as well. Infrasonic, etc.

For studies, see Qigong Institute database for huge database of abstracts. I have seen EMF standing waves set up by qi projection (or rather seen the measurements of the standing waves.) What was interesting was that it took a period of time for each standing wave to dampen out, even when the qi manipulation was ceased. I believe at some point science will catch up with more sensitive measuring equipment so that we can see the huge spectrum of qi.

 

 

Right... his statement wasn't meant to exhaustive of chi or its properties.I have many of the institue's studies in my database.A lot of this just makes plain sense we are electomagnetic beings.Jokingly a friend said technology uses nature but is one step removed while magic or metaphysics is becoming at one with natural forces.

[Jakara]

I very much doubt that this is what chi really is, I think if chi does exist, it will be well in the realms of an already established scientific theory. Its not going to be some undiscovered fundamental force, but more like a composition of complex forces that we already know about, but have not been investigated fully in their given state. That is, a phenomena becomes more than the sum of its individual parts. If chi were some fundamental force, there would be verifiable evidence of it in some form or another.

 

I almost wish orgone energy were real and this guy had discovered something amazing, but its clearly not. Its normal (but very interesting!) everyday physics in practice. If Reich's results were reproducable by anyone fair enough, but they aren't, and the ones that are are easily explained by already established scientific concepts.

 

Scientists study what is there, not what isn't. That's a philosopher's job.

 

Ramon25, scientists for this reason should not say god does or does not exist, only that based on the current evidence it is either likely or unlikely. Lots of what was stated in the christian bible was written as fact, but has since been proven incorrect, which is probably why scientists give it a hard time. Athiesm however is as much a religion as any other, as there is no evidence either way. Agnostics are more logical.