Chinese official site for Taoist Master Wang Liping's 2009 public teaching

[kathyli]

For the Daoism (Taoism) seekers,

 

1. Chinese official site for 2009 Taoist Master Wang Liping's public teaching in China:

 

http://www.3qing.org/Activety/index.aspx

 

2. The google English translation for the above site:

 

http://translate.google.com/translate?prev...history_state0=

 

3. More information in English:

 

http://www.dao-de.org/dragongate/news/news.html

 

Master Wang Liping welcomes anyone to directly speak to him any concerns about himself and his Daoism system during his public teaching in Jinhua.

 

If you have questions, please use following information to contact the organizing committee. Jinhua Taoist Association (homepage, http://www.3qing.org/).

 

 

Jinhua Taoist Association of Zhejiang Province, Chinese Taoist culture and health summer camp the first phase of the organizing committee.

Teacher Zhou,

Phone: 13566761665,

E-mail: [email protected],

Mailing address: Immortal Huang palace of Jinhua Double Dragon scenic area, Jinhua City, Zhejiang Province. 21023.

[h.uriahr]

[Hugo_M]

Great News but the price is still to high for me

[Baguakid]

Great News but the price is still to high for me

 

 

You should go as a local Chinese... or better yet, why not pay a local Chinese to go and record the event?

 

Sorry, as long as their pricing is as it is I'm definitely not interested and I think it shows poor judgment on the Wang Liping organizers.

 

It has been argued that people in the West make much more than local Chinese, not necessarily true. It's because of that argument that it's felt that people in the west can easily afford such costs, Not True. People in the west have to pay for Visas, Air Fair, Hotel, Time off from work, etc. This is an Imbalanced price schedule.

[Ken]

Ridiculous post, first of all room and board is included, secondly you seems to think Chinese participants don't have to take time off from work and buy flight/train ticket?

 

let's see some numbers:

 

US GDP = 46800

China GDP = 3300

Ratio=14.2

 

Foriegn student tuition + flight ticket +visa= ~4800 USD

Chinse student tuition + travel expenses = ~4000RMB

Ratio=8.2

 

The ratio is less than the ratio between the GDP.

 

You know if you don't want to pay then don't go, no one cares. But i need to dispel the misconception that it's cheap for a Chinese participant. No it's not, in fact, many of them also complain about the cost but they work hard to make it work. So similar burden is expected from a foreign participant, no one thought it will be cheap.

 

 

You should go as a local Chinese... or better yet, why not pay a local Chinese to go and record the event?

 

Sorry, as long as their pricing is as it is I'm definitely not interested and I think it shows poor judgment on the Wang Liping organizers.

 

It has been argued that people in the West make much more than local Chinese, not necessarily true. It's because of that argument that it's felt that people in the west can easily afford such costs, Not True. People in the west have to pay for Visas, Air Fair, Hotel, Time off from work, etc. This is an Imbalanced price schedule.

Edited June 16, 2009 by Ken

[r.w.smith]

I understand how Frustrating it is,Not being able to raise that kind of Money. However sending somebody is a great idea. Thats what we did in atlanta & we have people attending the china meeting as well. hopefully this one will be a little more advanced then the previous. Eventually when all material & techniques are collected they will be posted. Many of master wangs teachings & seminars have been described on various forums in chinese,I see No harm why it cannot be in english also.

 

Regards,

[h.uriahr]

It can be argued that Wang is expensive. It can also be argued that you suffer from poor financial planning.

 

Either way, if you want to go you will. You'll find a way.

[Baguakid]

Hey Ken, good post.. I'm not sure what you mean by GDP unless it's Gross Domestic Product?

 

Here's the numbers from Wiki:

US: 14,264,600

China: 4,401,614

 

Still have no idea what this means in your argument as I have met very rich in China and very poor. So your argument lacks...

 

How about looking at it in a different way?

 

What does this say about Taoist Master Wang Liping? The man obviously is famous and most likely wealthy. Why does he charge so much for both Chinese and laowai?

 

I have absolutely no problems with my financial planning and to be honest, I don't want to find a way because I don't want to go. I've been down that path before and it's not fun. A few crumbs here, a few crumbs there and after 20 years and a sick wallet you have a bag full of crumbs. Listen, I have met Masters over the last 25 years both in the US and China where I lived and without a doubt, without a single doubt it's the ones who asked for nothing or charged little and were the ones with the highest quality material I've learned.

Edited June 17, 2009 by Baguakid

[Ken]

I meant GDP per capita:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...PPP)_per_capita

 

A fairly objective way of guaging the wealth of different nations. Of course there are very rich and very poor Chinese, so is everywhere else, but the standards are different in each country when compared using a common currency. Hence there needs to be an objective way of determining the price for different people from different countries. There is absolutely no way that we are going to charge one single price for everyone since this will be extremely unfair to the Chinese participants. Is that really that difficult to understand?

 

 

As I said before if you don't want to go then don't, no one cares, why waste your time on something that doesn't concern you. There are tons of free stuffs/practices/tips on the internet for you I am sure they are all extremely high quality in your definition so go and play with those instead, no need to express your grief here.

 

 

Hey Ken, good post.. I'm not sure what you mean by GDP unless it's Gross Domestic Product?

 

Here's the numbers from Wiki:

US: 14,264,600

China: 4,401,614

 

Still have no idea what this means in your argument as I have met very rich in China and very poor. So your argument lacks...

 

How about looking at it in a different way?

 

What does this say about Taoist Master Wang Liping? The man obviously is famous and most likely wealthy. Why does he charge so much for both Chinese and laowai?

 

I have absolutely no problems with my financial planning and to be honest, I don't want to find a way because I don't want to go. I've been down that path before and it's not fun. A few crumbs here, a few crumbs there and after 20 years and a sick wallet you have a bag full of crumbs. Listen, I have met Masters over the last 25 years both in the US and China where I lived and without a doubt, without a single doubt it's the ones who asked for nothing or charged little and were the ones with the highest quality material I've learned.

[Baguakid]

Yeah, no problem Ken.... Keep it!!!

[Siliconvalley1]

There are tons of free stuffs/practices/tips on the internet for you I am sure they are all extremely high quality in your definition so go and play with those instead, no need to express your grief here.

 

 

Are you suggesting that whatever is "free" or not as expensive as Wang Liping's stuff are useless or less valuable? You seemed to suggest earlier that most of the stuff available here in the West is "mechanical" and leading nowhere except for minor health benefits. So, in your opinion, Wang Liping is the only option? If not, what are the other options for someone who does not want to pay so much but wants much more than "minor" health benefits?

[Baguakid]

What I was trying to say was I've learned from Masters (not Internet) who's kind heart requested No money for passing on their teaching. And thus, I upped the kind heart volly and gave them more than I could afford at the time. Ken doesn't get it.

[Ken]

Are you suggesting that whatever is "free" or not as expensive as Wang Liping's stuff are useless or less valuable? You seemed to suggest earlier that most of the stuff available here in the West is "mechanical" and leading nowhere except for minor health benefits. So, in your opinion, Wang Liping is the only option? If not, what are the other options for someone who does not want to pay so much but wants much more than "minor" health benefits?

 

huh? I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about...I don't recognise anything you imagined I said.

Edited June 17, 2009 by Ken

[gendao]

Hey Ken, good post.. I'm not sure what you mean by GDP unless it's Gross Domestic Product?

 

Here's the numbers from Wiki:

US: 14,264,600

China: 4,401,614

Well to put things in a more understandable perspective, the average annual salary in Beijing reached 44,715 yuan (US$6,545) in 2008.

Which is approximately just 1/10 the average income in the US of $58,029.

 

Believe me, the average Joe in China really does work his ass off for a mere pittance.

 

 

BTW, most of those proceeds go to the organizers, and not Master Wang himself. In fact, rumor has it that when some people complained about the price of the textbooks or something at one of the seminars, I think he bought them some himself. From all accounts I've heard of him, he is truly a very kind, generous and accommodating man. I just don't think he gets himself too involved in the business and logistics side of these events.

 

And I'm certainly not saying $4 Gs is cheap...or not worth a 10-day seminar with such a master. But, I'm not going to say the price differential is really disproportionate either, although it may certainly appear so at first glance. Because the sad fact is that they really do only make about 1/10 of what we do here. But I don't hear American importers complaining when they can buy products from China for 1/20-1/8 the cost there. Nor consumers who still get a fraction of those trickle-down savings. The fact is, Americans are already getting a discount and saving thousands a year by living a lifestyle based upon underpriced Chinese imports.

 

That all said, it is definitely pushing the limits for my workshop budget, nonetheless.

Edited June 17, 2009 by vortex

[宁]

I think Vortex has made some good points there.

Besides, if you read the Dragon Gate book, it's pretty clear there that the training is anything BUT easy or confortable or designed for anyone to have a bite at it.

You'll either have to be really good, or prepare really good.

Why should the acces to it be other way than the same, difficult?

 

The price issue is saying another thing to me: it's a moral stimmulus for the a Chinese to be encouraged to come and learn about Daoism. Don't you think it's normal for them to care about their own people first? In China, compared to the West, there are very fiew left that are interested in these things... They need to get it to their own people first.

So we, as foreigners, are invited to learn about their most treasured part of their culture. No one said it's the only way, so to get there is not an obligation, but a personal option. So, as a guest, why the fuss? It's the exact opposite of polite.

 

All this complaining about prices makes me think of a couple of chubby westerners arguing with the lady at the market-store about the price of some products, yelling their going to make a complaint to the manager.

You think you get the same 'rights' with anything in life?

You think life is 'negotiable'?

You people are over-obsessed with 'rights'.

This is not America, but one of the fiew places in the world where a citizen must first think about their obligations/duties, and THEN about the possible benefit.

 

With that attitude, of 'taking', 'having-the-right-to', 'demanding', you'll only show that you're an un-educated barbarian. Not all Chinese would think this way these days, because of the overcoming influx of MacDonalds-type-culture (which greatly sucks btw), but the Chinese that matter to us (cultivation-dedicated people) would.

 

The more you comment negatively, the more you cut more from your chanses to ever get to do anything with it. You're pulling you on leg, in fact.

[Aetherous]

I'm confused about the costs, still...

 

What does it cost for Chinese people to attend, when their currency is converted directly to American dollars?

[Baguakid]

4. Cost of summer camp

4.1 Domestic participants: RMB 3500 (Include room and meal, Taoist clothing, Taoist

morning and evening scriptures book).

4.2 Foreign national participants: USD 3500 (Include room and meal, Taoist clothing,

Taoist morning and evening scriptures book and the following additional services.

The organizer will give supports for language translation, security guard and

international travel documents. There will be 5 full time language translation assistants

in Master Wang's seminar. The organizer will prepare documents for the foreigner's visa

application; help them in the security guard and booking tickets, etc. )

 

3500/7 = 500 USD.

 

3500 USD (non-Chinese)

500 USD (Chinese)

 

3500 + ~1000+ Air Fare = 4500.00

China Visa: 130.00

 

Total approximate non-Chinese Seminar Coat: 4630.00

Edited June 17, 2009 by Baguakid

[Aetherous]

Thanks much Baguakid,

 

$500 USD (Chinese)

$4630.00 USD (American)

 

$6,545 was said to be the average annual income of people in Beijing. $58,029 for Americans (although that sounds pretty high to me for an average and my family is actually middle class).

 

So the seminar will be...

500/6545...about 7.6% of Chinese income.

4630/58029...about 7.9% of American income.

 

I realize this is a simplified way to do the math, but it's what I needed to do to know that it's fair. I suppose it's pretty close to being equal expense for both "average" persons.

[h.uriahr]

Money is always an issue and will always be an issue. Oh so and so charges this much but this other guy charges pennies, blah blah blah. People will always complain about what they cant afford, it's the new generation taking over. We expect everything to be handed to us.

[mojavedollar]

All,

 

I am very thankful to Master Wang Li Ping and Kathy Li for sharing the teachings. They are very kind.

 

 

Though I am rubbed the wrong way with pricing. Why should Foreigners have to pay more? Do we have higher prices for Chinese when they travel overseas? For the most part no. But I have to pay more going to the Forbidden City and pay more to listen to an English audio tour than a Chinese does.

 

In my opinion the best is to spread the teaching all over and see what becomes of it. Jesus nor Buddha wasn't charging. Second best would be to charge a fee to offset the modern costs. But when you have different pricing for different races that is discriminating and unfair.

 

If you have a product or service your costs are the same and doesn't depend on the race or origin of the individual. So the price should be the same for everyone.

 

With all respect to the gracious teachers mentioned, foreigners are subsidizing Chinese and if they were having different prices in the USA it would be considered discrimination.

 

My hope is they would have the same pricing but it is a free will world and they can do what they want. I wish them and the group as a whole good luck, and thanks.

[Baguakid]

yes, there are many countries who's per capita income is greater than that of the US. Dubai for example.

 

If we did the same thing to them it would be outrageous.

 

 

BTW, among my friends, I don't know anyone making over 30k a year.

[gendao]

yes, there are many countries who's per capita income is greater than that of the US. Dubai for example.

 

If we did the same thing to them it would be outrageous.

BTW, among my friends, I don't know anyone making over 30k a year.

Well, it would be outrageous to us, given that there are far more countries poorer than richer than us.

 

So, we'd end up having to give all Chinese 90% discounts and Africans like 99% discounts, lol. And just a few rich Arabs aren't going to offset the majority of folks we'd have to give discounts to.

 

Basically, if you are on the upper end of the price scale, you're better off using uniform pricing.

If you're on the lower end, you're better off using tiered pricing.

 

 

That said, we also use tiered pricing in our country - with welfare, scholarships, financial aid programs, qualified medical coverage, senior citizen discounts, etc - which all basically discount services for poor people. And, I even know of a therapist who charges higher rates for wealthy celebs/jock stars.

Edited June 17, 2009 by vortex

[Baguakid]

well sure, and what about demographics? Should they give ethnic groups who are consider more poor a bigger break?

 

Maybe they should ask for your W2 to determine how much they should charge you.

[gendao]

well sure, and what about demographics? Should they give ethnic groups who are consider more poor a bigger break?

 

Maybe they should ask for your W2 to determine how much they should charge you.

Actually, the US already does all this with race-based affirmative action.

 

If you apply for a scholarship or undergrad admission, YES, they will want to know:

1) Your race

2) Your household income

 

Where if you are Black, Latino, Native American, sometimes female and/or poor, you will be more qualified for admission/scholarships.

[Baguakid]

yep, it's like I was told when I was young.

 

 

The "fair" only comes once a year.