Gong Ting Xian's "Achieving Longevity and Preserving Primordiality".

[DaoChild]

An interesting practice I came across, which I'm more than certain I'd like to try, but have a few questions.

 

Anyway, here it is:

 

"Every time between 11 pm and 1 am, 11 am and 1 pm, 5 am and 7 am, 5 pm and 7 pm, retreat to your meditation chamber. Place a warm mat on your wooden bed. Sit cross-legged and close your eyes. Use some cotton wool to block your ears. Do not have any thoughts. Be mindful of your breathing, following each inward and outward flow to a point between the heart and the kidneys. Do not be too fast, not too slow; be natural. After sitting for the time of one incense (about 30 minutes), you will find that your breathing through your mouth and nose has ceased to be rough, and has become smooth and gentle. After sitting for another incense, you will find no breath passing through your mouth and nose. Then gently stretch your limbs, open your eyes and take out the cotton wool. Leave your bed and walk about. Then lie on your wooden bed and take a nap. When you awake, eat half a bowl of light porridge. Do not work laboriously nor be angry, as this will diminish the effect you have acquired in the training. Practice the method every day. After two months, you will see the results."

 

 

 

 

What is the importance of the 5-7, 11-1 times? I assume they must be liminal times, where energy is high and thus are good times for Qigong, meditation, etc.? Do you think it's necessary to adhere to these strictly, or just do a sunrise/sunset/two other times meditation?

 

My only main gripe here is that I'd have to cease working out for several months.. and would therefore have a very rough time getting back into it. I can actually fit those times for meditation into my schedule quite nicely though.

 

Has anyone else heard of this? There apparently are no other resources (at least that I've found) on this man/ the exercise in the English language.

[Iskote]

An interesting practice I came across, which I'm more than certain I'd like to try, but have a few questions.

 

Anyway, here it is:

 

"Every time between 11 pm and 1 am, 11 am and 1 pm, 5 am and 7 am, 5 pm and 7 pm, retreat to your meditation chamber. Place a warm mat on your wooden bed. Sit cross-legged and close your eyes. Use some cotton wool to block your ears. Do not have any thoughts. Be mindful of your breathing, following each inward and outward flow to a point between the heart and the kidneys. Do not be too fast, not too slow; be natural. After sitting for the time of one incense (about 30 minutes), you will find that your breathing through your mouth and nose has ceased to be rough, and has become smooth and gentle. After sitting for another incense, you will find no breath passing through your mouth and nose. Then gently stretch your limbs, open your eyes and take out the cotton wool. Leave your bed and walk about. Then lie on your wooden bed and take a nap. When you awake, eat half a bowl of light porridge. Do not work laboriously nor be angry, as this will diminish the effect you have acquired in the training. Practice the method every day. After two months, you will see the results."

What is the importance of the 5-7, 11-1 times? I assume they must be liminal times, where energy is high and thus are good times for Qigong, meditation, etc.? Do you think it's necessary to adhere to these strictly, or just do a sunrise/sunset/two other times meditation?

 

My only main gripe here is that I'd have to cease working out for several months.. and would therefore have a very rough time getting back into it. I can actually fit those times for meditation into my schedule quite nicely though.

 

Has anyone else heard of this? There apparently are no other resources (at least that I've found) on this man/ the exercise in the English language.

This sounds quite similar to how Taoist meditation is normally practiced except one

usually keeps their attention on the lower dantian when starting out, or breathes (through the nose)

down to the dantian. There are variations to this which would normally be directed at

the discretion of the teacher. Anyway, assuming that's translated correctly, Gong Ding Xian

must have had his reasons for specifying it the way he describes there.

 

I saw a reference that Gong Ting Xian (Gong Ding Xian) was a Chinese doctor who lived sometime

during the Ming Dynasty (1368 - 1644). The Chinese name for the book he wrote is apparently

'Shou Shi Bao Yuan', which apparently translates as something like 'Protecting the primordial (or original)

to Procure Longevity'; so pretty much the same as the translation you had.

 

The time periods you mentioned are not necessarily times when energy is highest (there are both

yin and yang energy peak times), but if one practices regulary at the indicated times it will supposedly give

the most beneficial and best overall balanced results (effects on yin and yang energies in the body) to the

meditation.

 

Traditionally the Chinese divided the hours of the day into twelve (2 hour) periods.

The periods that are often cited as the best meditation/practice times are the ones that were listed.

In Chinese Medicine, one's internal energy is supposed to be most active in one of the

12 meridians during each of these 12 time periods. So the choice of time periods also relates to this

as well, to provide overall balanace and best results, (based on my understanding).

11:00 PM - 1:00 AM - Zishi - gall bladder meridian

5 AM - 7:00 AM - Maoshi - large intestine meridian

11:00 AM - 1:00 PM - Wushi - heart meridian

5:00 PM - 7:00 PM - Youshi - kidney meridian

 

If you can't practice at all four time periods, then early morning and/or late evening are usually the

times people who work, or are otherwise busy, practice. If that won't work for you, then

just practice at the times that you can practice.

 

Best wishes from Iskote...

Edited June 15, 2009 by Iskote

[Iskote]

...

Edited June 15, 2009 by Iskote

[DaoChild]

I can practice at those specified times, but obviously it's going to change a lot of sleep and activity patterns, so I was wondering if it's worth rigidly adhering to, or if I'll be able to derive many of the same benefits at different hours.

[Iskote]

I can practice at those specified times, but obviously it's going to change a lot of sleep and activity patterns, so I was wondering if it's worth rigidly adhering to, or if I'll be able to derive many of the same benefits at different hours.

 

I don't think it is really all that critical, but I am not sure how much difference it would make

if a person kept their practice to those specific optimal time periods rather than practicing at other times.

Early mornings and late evenings are good if a person can manage it. One has to be practical

though, so just practice at a time or times that you can maintain regularly. Consistent regular daily

practice is probably more important than the exact specific times that one practices at, I would think.

[WhiteTiger]

I can practice at those specified times, but obviously it's going to change a lot of sleep and activity patterns, so I was wondering if it's worth rigidly adhering to, or if I'll be able to derive many of the same benefits at different hours.

 

Its individually based those times. You may be prescribed different times depending on your needs.

 

Its important to practice every day.

 

Prescribing specific times and days may not be nearly as helpful for you if you can not even sit in meditation for over an hour. I'd suggest working daily for more than once is really helpful. The beginning goal should be at least 20 minutes at least twice a day. However you decide to get there is up to you.

[DaoChild]

Its individually based those times. You may be prescribed different times depending on your needs.

 

Its important to practice every day.

 

Prescribing specific times and days may not be nearly as helpful for you if you can not even sit in meditation for over an hour. I'd suggest working daily for more than once is really helpful. The beginning goal should be at least 20 minutes at least twice a day. However you decide to get there is up to you.

 

Right -- I'm already saying I meditate two hours daily, every single day no exceptions. But I would really like to step it up a lot, where I'm meditating so much that I have an unusual stillness and enhanced perception throughout the day. Perhaps since the morning motivates me so much I'll begin a long meditation then, and then in equal intervals space meditations throughout the day.

[WhiteTiger]

Right -- I'm already saying I meditate two hours daily, every single day no exceptions. But I would really like to step it up a lot, where I'm meditating so much that I have an unusual stillness and enhanced perception throughout the day. Perhaps since the morning motivates me so much I'll begin a long meditation then, and then in equal intervals space meditations throughout the day.

 

Well if you can't step up the amount of time your meditating step up the quality of the meditation.

 

Although that may be obvious advice for the next one let me be extremely opened and nice towards you. weather you do 20 minutes, one hour or two hours at least get the average highest quality meditation at least twice a day. In other words lets say I do one and a half hours of meditation daily. But with the meditation I do I can only keep my mind focused for an hour. I would at least take that one hour and do it twice a day. (The following example does not actually represent what I can do currently or weather this was or wasn't my best ever)

 

High quality and multiple times a day is very helpful with diligent practice doing it daily. I am merely speaking from experience and what teachers have taught me to do in the past.

 

I hope that helps.

 

If all that advice you already know or do. Than I would say see a acupuncturist for consultation. Through there you can figure out what meridians you should be working on. That should give you a jump start.

[Aetherous]

Typically, the time of day you practice is very important and it can mean the difference between success or failure in your attempts. This is my experience with what I practice. So if you want to practice Gong Ting Xian's method, you should practice it exactly. Skipping a certain time will bring about an imbalance.

 

Something to consider is that this method really changes your lifestyle. It takes up a lot of your day.

 

Also, I think to be able to practice this, you need to have first mastered embryonic breathing (where you find no breath passing through the nose). That's not the same as having very refined breathing, or being so calm that you don't notice the breath. It's actually kind of advanced...I'm not assuming you're a beginner Dao Child, just saying this for other's information.

 

There is also inadequate instruction on how to do these things exactly. Like what way of sitting? Lotus? Simple crossed legs? What stretches? Is the wooden bed just a platform of wood that you practice/nap on, or something more? What kind of porridge? How long of a walk, and is it slow or fast?

 

It may sound like I'm nitpicking, and I am, but there's a lot more to Taoist cultivation than such simple instructions. To achieve good results, or any at all, you need details of correct methods. That's why they say it's best to have a real teacher in person.

 

Anyway, sorry to sound like a know it all. Just giving a different perspective to think about...hope it helps.

 

By the way, Dao Child...what meditation do you practice? 2 hours is pretty good!

[WhiteTiger]

Typically, the time of day you practice is very important and it can mean the difference between success or failure in your attempts. This is my experience with what I practice. So if you want to practice Gong Ting Xian's method, you should practice it exactly. Skipping a certain time will bring about an imbalance.

 

hehe, Scotty.

 

It is true, depending on the system and the practice they specifically perscribe different times of the day to practice. There are specific reasons. This holds true with different Taoist Sects as well as comprehensive family styles and/or practices.

[DaoChild]

Well if you can't step up the amount of time your meditating step up the quality of the meditation.

 

Although that may be obvious advice for the next one let me be extremely opened and nice towards you. weather you do 20 minutes, one hour or two hours at least get the average highest quality meditation at least twice a day. In other words lets say I do one and a half hours of meditation daily. But with the meditation I do I can only keep my mind focused for an hour. I would at least take that one hour and do it twice a day. (The following example does not actually represent what I can do currently or weather this was or wasn't my best ever)

 

High quality and multiple times a day is very helpful with diligent practice doing it daily. I am merely speaking from experience and what teachers have taught me to do in the past.

 

I hope that helps.

 

If all that advice you already know or do. Than I would say see a acupuncturist for consultation. Through there you can figure out what meridians you should be working on. That should give you a jump start.

 

No no, I agree with what you said. If doing seated meditation, I only go for one hour shifts.

 

 

Scotty: You bring up some very valid points. I'm not going to adhere exactly to his method, so I'm just going to space several 1 hour meditations throughout the day. I believe you're correct in saying that a lot of teachings that may outwardly simple, are more inwardly complex. Thus, I'm going to shy away from prescribed methods and so on without a teacher. Thank you for the advice.

 

Regarding the type of meditation I do, I get up early before class and first do standing meditation up to an hour, and then just a seated stillness/void meditation before making my oatmeal and heading to class. At sunset I do an hour and a half of Qigong, followed by another seated meditation. This is a unique period of my life though -- once I hop into the 9-5 world, obvious adjustments will have to be made. It's a unique opportunity that I am able to do 4 hours of spiritual exercises a day -- something I know I won't be able to maintain throughout my life.

[Aetherous]

Sounds like you've got an awesome daily practice!

[Spirit Ape]

I agree Scotty, do your training at the times is best for you depending on a few things, like working with Nature sunrise / sunset, moons, and other elemental forces to help purify and awaken the energy within. But if you cant do full lotus dont get too depressed and feel you wont achieve anything. Lotus isnt always good for you!

 

Something is better then nothing right!!!

 

Ape

[WhiteTiger]

Lotus isnt always good for you!

 

huh?

 

Mind explaining a little more?