The purpose of Full Lotus?

[DaoChild]

So It seems I've come across two schools of thought.

 

1) That full lotus has some sort of esoteric spiritual benefit.

 

2) There is NO esoteric benefit, it is merely a structurally very strong position that (once trained) you can meditate in for a while, and is convenient when you have no material to sit on (e.g. how people have done it for 2000 years).

 

Which one have you heard?

[Aetherous]

I've experienced the "some sort of esoteric benefit" from half-lotus. If they were looking for a structurally good way to sit, why not just lean against a wall? Don't know how to explain what happens. Drew Hempel who used to post here a lot said it acted like a karma-burner. All I know is that I felt more bliss when I sat in half lotus.

[DaoChild]

If they were looking for a structurally good way to sit, why not just lean against a wall?

 

Because you wouldn't be strengthening the muscles in the core and around the spine. Additionally, I was referring to the fact that you wouldn't need anything to support yourself -- you could be in the desert, in a jungle, in a city, with or without padding, etc.

Edited June 27, 2009 by DaoChild

[Aetherous]

Well yes you're very right, but I just meant that whoever "invented" it probably wasn't trying to come up with a pose which is structurally sound...they were probably aiming for the energetic effect. Just my opinion.

[DaoChild]

Well yes you're very right, but I just meant that whoever "invented" it probably wasn't trying to come up with a pose which is structurally sound...they were probably aiming for the energetic effect. Just my opinion.

 

Interesting -- well I'll have to give it a shot. Now that I can actually feel Qi perhaps after a few weeks of trying full lotus I will agree with you

 

Also, is it true that the Buddha was said to have attained enlightenment while doing lying down meditation? I've heard this from several sources. I've heard that he is always put in the lotus pose, literally just because it implies a more esoteric feeling.

 

Ah, sentimentality

[Blind Owl]

From the little i've read on Taobums, I think that the full lotus was designed to provoke ranged orgasms in women working behind the burger counter.

[Aetherous]

Drew is so awesome.

 

Also, is it true that the Buddha was said to have attained enlightenment while doing lying down meditation? I've heard this from several sources. I've heard that he is always put in the lotus pose, literally just because it implies a more esoteric feeling.

 

That's what I've always heard, that he was laying down.

[Mokona]

I think biology comes into play here. Just not the position anyone can put their legs in.

[Spirit Ape]

There is Lying meditation and sleep Qi Kung Lying would be easier!

[Siliconvalley1]

Full Lotus is essentially Five Lotuses Facing up - the crown, the hands and the feet. That would mean the mind/soul (Crown), senses (hands) and body (legs) are facing the Supreme or the Heavens and in perfect alignment with one another and with the Heaven. The ancients speak of the very posture as a Prayer, an energetic prayer. Yogi Matsyendra of the Hatha Yoga school describes it as the best physical posture that represents yoga or union. The posture is described to be capable of both "quietening" and "awakening", as appropriate. As Sifu Zhixing Wang describes - energy channels are opened naturally and without force by simply being in full lotus and taking to abdominal breathing. Even the mantrayana traditions seem to view this posture as the best for reciting mantras. IMO, the full lotus is much more than a simple posture? The very first 'big' mco activity for me was when simply sitting and full lotus and the posture seemed to have a lot to do with it. Chunyi Lin mentions that Full Lotus in itself is a complete Qigong system and there is some name to it (can't recollect now )

Edited June 28, 2009 by Siliconvalley1

[DaoChild]

Full Lotus is essentially Five Lotuses Facing up - the crown, the hands and the feet. That would mean the mind/soul (Crown), senses (hands) and body (legs) are facing the Supreme or the Heavens and in perfect alignment with one another and with the Heaven. The ancients speak of the very posture as a Prayer, an energetic prayer. Yogi Matsyendra of the Hatha Yoga school describes it as the best physical posture that represents yoga or union. The posture is described to be capable of both "quietening" and "awakening", as appropriate. As Sifu Zhixing Wang describes - energy channels are opened naturally and without force by simply being in full lotus and taking to abdominal breathing. Even the mantrayana traditions seem to view this posture as the best for reciting mantras. IMO, the full lotus is much more than a simple posture? The very first 'big' mco activity for me was when simply sitting and full lotus and the posture seemed to have a lot to do with it. Chunyi Lin mentions that Full Lotus in itself is a complete Qigong system and there is some name to it (can't recollect now )

 

Could you please point me in the right direction, regarding Chunyi Lin speaking on Full lotus?

[Siliconvalley1]

Could you please point me in the right direction, regarding Chunyi Lin speaking on Full lotus?

 

 

He does talk about full lotus in his level 2 course. But what I said was what he told me during a conversation.

[11:33]

From the little i've read on Taobums, I think that the full lotus was designed to provoke ranged orgasms in women working behind the burger counter.

Hilarious. But oh so true.

[DaoChild]

From the little i've read on Taobums, I think that the full lotus was designed to provoke ranged orgasms in women working behind the burger counter.

 

haha!

[Mokona]

Full Lotus is essentially Five Lotuses Facing up - the crown, the hands and the feet. That would mean the mind/soul (Crown), senses (hands) and body (legs) are facing the Supreme or the Heavens and in perfect alignment with one another and with the Heaven. The ancients speak of the very posture as a Prayer, an energetic prayer. Yogi Matsyendra of the Hatha Yoga school describes it as the best physical posture that represents yoga or union. The posture is described to be capable of both "quietening" and "awakening", as appropriate. As Sifu Zhixing Wang describes - energy channels are opened naturally and without force by simply being in full lotus and taking to abdominal breathing. Even the mantrayana traditions seem to view this posture as the best for reciting mantras. IMO, the full lotus is much more than a simple posture? The very first 'big' mco activity for me was when simply sitting and full lotus and the posture seemed to have a lot to do with it. Chunyi Lin mentions that Full Lotus in itself is a complete Qigong system and there is some name to it (can't recollect now )

 

If only I could get my legs to fit that way! Even get close without falling over!

[Tokoyo Tama]

From the little i've read on Taobums, I think that the full lotus was designed to provoke ranged orgasms in women working behind the burger counter.

 

is this a drew hempel ref? saw him on another message board before I made my way here. Had lots of character.

 

edit:guess I could throw in my 1 cent. Though I don't utilize any lotus like sitting, they seem to create a circuit with the lower legs that might have some kind of 'energy' effect. I'm a big fan of bodies as circuits

Edited July 2, 2009 by Tokoyo Tama

[YouStink]

From the little i've read on Taobums, I think that the full lotus was designed to provoke ranged orgasms in women working behind the burger counter.

Think you can get surveillance footage of the burger place?

 

I have made it to semi full lotus and its ok, but once I stretched and pushed a little into a full full lotus and I did feel a difference of some sort, like my mind went quiet and I was just in the zone for meditation. Maybe a coincidence who knows I dont do it often though because I just am not flexible enough to do with without putting pressure on my knees right now, and I dont want to injure them

 

Semi full

 

Full full

[Zhuo Ming-Dao]

I can do the full lotus in its complete form quite comfortably. I go into full lotus without having my hands ever touch my legs, but just by lifting my thighs and swinging my legs into place. I often do full lotus for my zazen practice, but I do not notice a particular energetic benefit. It is certainly the most stable position for seated meditation, though. You can perfectly angle your hips outward and properly curve your spine without any extra pressure and the maximum amount of relaxation of other muscles. When you do the half lotus or Burmese positions, extra muscles have to engage in order to stabilize you, which makes it that tiny bit harder to settle your mind.

 

On the other hand, even with complete flexibility in the hip flexors, the full lotus will often cause your legs to fall asleep in extended sitting. I cannot go for more than 30 minutes without having one or both legs fall asleep, and I have been told by several 30+ year zazen veterans that this is to be expected. It is VERY common in the full lotus to have your legs become "like dead wood." Because I value my legs and do not like the idea of eventually crippling them from extended sittings, I always use half lotus if I know that I will be sitting for more that 25 minutes.

[YMWong]

There are many schools of thought. Here is one:

 

"Chen [Yingning] advised that the key was to find a position that enabled one to persevere in the practice for a long time without agitation (naijiu budong wei miao 耐久不動為妙), For that reason, Chen considered the Buddhist cross-legged position (jiafu zuo 跏趺坐), which involved folding one leg atop the other, as ill suited to average pratictioners in quiet sitting practice, because prolonged practice in this position could be harmful."

 

Daoist Modern

by Liu Xun

Harvard University Press 2009

 

YM

[WhiteTiger]

There are many schools of thought. Here is one:

 

"Chen [Yingning] advised that the key was to find a position that enabled one to persevere in the practice for a long time without agitation (naijiu budong wei miao 耐久不動為妙), For that reason, Chen considered the Buddhist cross-legged position (jiafu zuo 跏趺坐), which involved folding one leg atop the other, as ill suited to average pratictioners in quiet sitting practice, because prolonged practice in this position could be harmful."

 

Daoist Modern

by Liu Xun

Harvard University Press 2009

 

YM

 

Always very much appreciated by me and I'm sure others to have you on the boards to give such good prospective of the Taoist world in these areas for people whom are not Taoist Monks or Hermits, for many years.

 

Genuinely,

wt

Edited July 3, 2009 by WhiteTiger

[YMWong]

Always very much appreciated by me and I'm sure others to have you on the boards to give such good prospective of the Taoist world in these areas for people whom are not Taoist Monks or Hermits, for many years.

 

Genuinely,

wt

 

Thank you WT !

And I highly recommend Prof. Liu Xun's work as it is one of the first to discuss Daoism in the modern era, and especially the life and works of the late Chen Yingning whose blend of modern and traditional values should be of inspiration to all of us.

 

YM

[WhiteTiger]

Thank you WT !

And I highly recommend Prof. Liu Xun's work as it is one of the first to discuss Daoism in the modern era, and especially the life and works of the late Chen Yingning whose blend of modern and traditional values should be of inspiration to all of us.

 

YM

 

I was wondering weather these works were in English or Chinese or both?

 

Peace, Genuinely,

wt

[YMWong]

I was wondering weather these works were in English or Chinese or both?

 

Peace, Genuinely,

wt

 

English of course:

 

Daoist Modern: Innovation, Lay Practice, and the Community of Inner Alchemy in Republican Shanghai (Harvard East Asian Monographs) (Hardcover)

by Xun Liu

Xun Liu (Author)

 

http://www.amazon.com/Daoist-Modern-Innova...0242&sr=8-1

 

 

YM

[Taomeow]

Think you can get surveillance footage of the burger place?

 

I have made it to semi full lotus and its ok, but once I stretched and pushed a little into a full full lotus and I did feel a difference of some sort, like my mind went quiet and I was just in the zone for meditation. Maybe a coincidence who knows I dont do it often though because I just am not flexible enough to do with without putting pressure on my knees right now, and I dont want to injure them

 

Semi full

 

Full full

I haven't finished reading this thread yet so maybe someone already said it, in which case thanks! -- but if no one did, I gotta:

 

for chrissake people, don't do what the pic designates as the "semi-full" -- ever -- you'll ruin your knees. A semi-lotus is a different position, not this one.

 

What is depicted as "full" is correct and not to be replaced with physiologically unsound feet-on-thighs position which is akin to crossing the abyss in two steps. The feet must rest in the qua. Or farther beyond if your qua is flexible enough. But not on the thighs, ever.

[gendao]

for chrissake people, don't do what the pic designates as the "semi-full" -- ever -- you'll ruin your knees. A semi-lotus is a different position, not this one.

 

What is depicted as "full" is correct and not to be replaced with physiologically unsound feet-on-thighs position which is akin to crossing the abyss in two steps. The feet must rest in the qua. Or farther beyond if your qua is flexible enough. But not on the thighs, ever.

Really, why not?

 

I am stuck in half-lotus with foot on thigh right now, as an intermediate step, until I can go into a full, full-lotus later...