vipassana

[Ramon25]

Hello guy's. Hey I am trying to understand the intricacies of this meditation.

 

1. How exactly does vipassana relate to inner dissolving how are they (alike,different)

 

2. do you focus on a sensation until it dissolves or just momentarily or (how long)?

 

3. Any pointers, tips?

 

4. how does breathing fit into it?

 

5. How many rounds up and down the body and how fast do I move?

 

thanks

[Gerard]

Start prostrating, walking and sitting and observe all the changes you will experience inside of you and in the external environment. Do not cling onto anything as they are all impermanent. Do not compare or share what you experience with anyone else either.

 

You can find more tips in my signature (check March & April entries) and in the following:

 

http://www.mahamakuta.inet.co.th/english/b-way(7).html (walking meditation)

http://www.mahamakuta.inet.co.th/english/b-way(8).html (mindfulness of breathing)

 

As well as other allied topics (since that page adheres to the Theravada tradition and being Vipassana the main tool of practice).

 

Good luck.

[yabyum24]

Hello guy's. Hey I am trying to understand the intricacies of this meditation.

 

1. How exactly does vipassana relate to inner dissolving how are they (alike,different)

 

2. do you focus on a sensation until it dissolves or just momentarily or (how long)?

 

3. Any pointers, tips?

 

4. how does breathing fit into it?

 

5. How many rounds up and down the body and how fast do I move?

 

thanks

 

2 parts of exactly the same thing.

 

When you dissolve, how do you know you have?

What "object" have you dissolved?

 

My question is not an intellectual one, rather experiential.

 

Awareness of the process, pure awareness is vipassana. Without it, you'd be in deep sleep.

The dissolution, the calming is samatha. Awareness of it is vipassana. It's not an intellectual vocalized exercise, although some traditions present it as such which I find rather contradictory, as a tense, hard, vocalized mental focus will not permit entry into even the first Jhana.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Ramon25]

for the record I am refering to the technique tought by SN Goenka. Which sounds very similar to Inner dissolving but I am curious as to its details.

thanks

[Jesse]

for the record I am refering to the technique tought by SN Goenka. Which sounds very similar to Inner dissolving but I am curious as to its details.

thanks

 

 

Have you read the book Beyond the Breath by Marshall Glickman. He explains the SN Goenka method of vipassana in depth in the book.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Breath-Marsha...n/dp/1582900434

 

You might want to keep an eye out on Bruce's website because i got an email saying his new book should be out any day now(i think he even said it is supposed to be out today), it is called the Tao of letting go and it's his new meditation book on Inner Dissolving. If you got both books you would pretty much know the similarity's/differences of the two styles

 

http://www.energyarts.com/

[Sunya]

why not go to one of the free vipassana retreats that are held in just about every area of the world? thats the best way to learn IMO.

 

http://www.dhamma.org/

[Ramon25]

I do not learn well with teachers, i seem to do better on my own. But the book sounds cool. SO nobody can really answer my above questions in detail? Well thanks for all the help anyways guys

[Sunya]

I do not learn well with teachers, i seem to do better on my own. But the book sounds cool. SO nobody can really answer my above questions in detail? Well thanks for all the help anyways guys

 

you do not learn well with teachers and yet you ask people here for advice? how is that learning on your own?

[Siliconvalley1]

S N Goenkaji has warned repeatedly not to learn from a book, especially not Vipassana. And he does not charge for his teaching. I have taken about 10 retreats with Goenka's group in the last decade and they are extremely helpful, even after learning the actual technique. I doubt if Vipassana can be really learnt from a book, especially the Goenka form, without taking at least one 10-day retreat. Most often, shamata is all one can get to with the best of efforts. Vipassana the Goenka way can be extremely intense and bring up many things, including energetic corrections.

 

There seem to be other versions of Vipassana though that seem safer to be practiced without direct supervision. If you're interested, I can pull up some details but I think the stress on the dissolving aspect is less pronounced there.

 

And if you want to be reaaaallly wicked demonoid has all the ten days worth of Goenka's instruction.

Edited July 8, 2009 by Siliconvalley1

[Ramon25]

you do not learn well with teachers and yet you ask people here for advice? how is that learning on your own?

 

 

Well It seems that you are not paying attention, Becuae I did not ask to be taught squat. i asked for technicality's, not teaching. If my question could be aswered then I will know What I do And do not need to do, very simple. I do not have the book. Also I cannot make it out to a retreat. When it comes to dealing with whatever can come up TRUST ME I could deal and have dealt with extreme emotions alot and continue to do so. I dont know what so hard, take question two for instance > 2. do you focus on a sensation until it dissolves or just momentarily or (how long)? A simple answer to WHAT I WANT to know is= no dont focus on it until it dissolves, just observe for a moment and then move on. With that I can guide myself through the process ect... That is why I posted EXACTLY what I wanted to know in numerical order. i dont do well in the sense that I do better with instructions that i can follow and maybe a question or two. I DO NOT like someone there guiding me through the process , As I like to take my own route.

thanks again

[xabir2005]

Hello guy's. Hey I am trying to understand the intricacies of this meditation.

 

1. How exactly does vipassana relate to inner dissolving how are they (alike,different)

 

2. do you focus on a sensation until it dissolves or just momentarily or (how long)?

 

3. Any pointers, tips?

 

4. how does breathing fit into it?

 

5. How many rounds up and down the body and how fast do I move?

 

thanks

Just as far as I understand...

 

1. Vipassana means observing the 3 characteristics: impermanence, suffering, no-self in your direct experience/sensate reality. Hence it dissolves any clinging to anything through insight into these characteristics.

 

2. For a beginner you can just be aware of the arising and subsiding of breathing sensations to the minutest details, sensing its qualities with clarity (cold, hot, hard, soft, etc) but not through labelling. Observe its 3 characteristics.

 

3. "try every second mindfulness of exactly what is, regardless of the specifics of your technique, and when you can do that, try going for many times per second. This level of precision and inclusiveness of what is going on really helps. As to fast, noting is really fast, particularly if done all day. It can be a rough ride, but that's the trade off." - Daniel Ingram

 

5. Sorry, I'm not very familiar with body scanning.

 

 

Here's a very good e-book available for free online: http://www.interactivebuddha.com/mctb.shtml

Edited July 8, 2009 by xabir2005

[markern]

Go to dharmaoverground. There you have a bunch of expert vipassana people that can give you very very precise and efecient advice. You could also consider the mahasi sayadaw style of vipassana. Somewhat more gentle I think. And probably more effective since insight meditation society have experimented with teaching people both and say that get way more stream enterers with the mahasi style then goenkas. However the body scanning technique can probably have some beneficial psychological and grounding aspects that are not found to the same degree in the mahasi style.

 

Since you say you experience a lot of extreeme emotions it might be better to only do shamatha/concentration practice for some time because it is very stabilising and good for dealing with your stuff wheras the insight meditation part can be a rough ride sometimes. Also I wonder if you are doing practices that adress the emotional volatility like healing sounds, inner smile, secret smile etc.

[Gerard]

Sorry but learning Vipassana alone is a BIG MISTAKE. Period.

[Aetherous]

Durkhrod,

 

Why?

[i_am_sam]

Durkhrod,

 

Why?

 

 

I would really like to know why you think this too. I did a 10 day retreat (Goenka) recently and since then it has been my only meditation practice, not because it's made me want to leave everything else behind, just because I want to focus on one practice/technique for a while and vipassana seems to be the one, for now.

 

BIG THANKS

[Smile]

Learning Vipassana without going to a 10-day retreat is like learning to drive a car without actually driving.

It's very intense but you will be able to meditate for a long time at the end of the retreat, that's for sure.

Highly recommend.

[Pietro]

Hello guy's. Hey I am trying to understand the intricacies of this meditation.

 

1. How exactly does vipassana relate to inner dissolving how are they (alike,different)

 

2. do you focus on a sensation until it dissolves or just momentarily or (how long)?

 

3. Any pointers, tips?

 

4. how does breathing fit into it?

 

5. How many rounds up and down the body and how fast do I move?

 

thanks

There are not a lot of people, in this forum, who are proficient enough in vipassana meditation, and proficient enough in inner dissolving to be able to answer this question.

 

There are probably quite a lot of people who have tried both, but to be able to answer this honestly you need to have a non amatorial understanding of both.

 

In any case technically (at your level, in any case) the inner dissolving works from the top down.

 

In the vipassana (please, guys, correct me if I am wrong), you concentrate on the breathing. And when you get distracted you recognise the distraction and then go back to the breathing.

 

Inner dissolving is a taoist meditation. Being a taoist meditation you are always aware of your body. Vipassana is a Buddhist meditation. I don't know much about it, but my understanding is that no such strict guideline is there.

[Ramon25]

There are not a lot of people, in this forum, who are proficient enough in vipassana meditation, and proficient enough in inner dissolving to be able to answer this question.

 

There are probably quite a lot of people who have tried both, but to be able to answer this honestly you need to have a non amatorial understanding of both.

 

In any case technically (at your level, in any case) the inner dissolving works from the top down.

 

In the vipassana (please, guys, correct me if I am wrong), you concentrate on the breathing. And when you get distracted you recognise the distraction and then go back to the breathing.

 

Inner dissolving is a taoist meditation. Being a taoist meditation you are always aware of your body. Vipassana is a Buddhist meditation. I don't know much about it, but my understanding is that no such strict guideline is there.

hey thanks everyone for the responses. Pietro the technique im talking about is actually being aware of the body and feeling the sensations without judgement. Going up and down the body. It is simply being aware of what you are feeling now in the moment and reconizing it is temporal. But the instructions i read were a lttile out of detail so I was trying to grasp it better.

Edited July 9, 2009 by Ramon25

[Gerard]

Why?

 

I would really like to know why you think this too...

 

 

Learning Vipassana without going to a 10-day retreat is like learning to drive a car without actually driving

 

 

Essentially answered by Smile but there is more to that. You need to experience it and don't discuss what you go through with anyone as you will condition their minds which is counterproductive.

 

Vipassana works deeply and affects all the different parts of the being: physical, mental, emotional, subtle and spiritual bodies. Imagine if you decide to start a training like this alone. It is more than the typical 1/2 hr Qigong session, you are working your way up to meditating more than 16 hours a day!

 

I attended a 3 week retreat in northern Thailand last Christmas and without proper instruction I wouldn't have been able to to something like that if I were living in busy society by myself. Just try and see how far you go.

 

What I meant is learning Vipassana alone is impossible. You need a instructor and the correct setting.

 

People tend to forget that the Buddha himself used Vipassana to attain enlightenment!

 

[Pietro]

hey thanks everyone for the responses. Pietro the technique im talking about is actually being aware of the body and feeling the sensations without judgement. Going up and down the body. It is simply being aware of what you are feeling now in the moment and reconizing it is temporal. But the instructions i read were a lttile out of detail so I was trying to grasp it better.

 

 

Hi Ramon,

the reason why many book don't enter into too many details is because

1. there is an understanding that some people are not ethically straight enough not to use those information in a way that would not harm others (and ultimately themselves). For examples about this, please look at the book "the sociopath next door;
   
2. the material expressed is really huge. You don't want to just teach a technique, but also teach where it can go wrong, and what to do in that case. While teaching a technique can be pretty straightforward, for each teachnique there are often thousands of things that can go wrong. Many instructors out there, for example, can teach the basic technique. But how many can avoid, and correct things going wrong? A book nearly never can.
   
3. some things are simply hard, if not impossible, to express and learn from a book. Leaving aside the simple amount, there are things that are transmitted not on a linguistic basis. Your body can understand them. But your mind will catch it up later. And then it will still be unable to express it in a way that someone can get it. For those things you need to use live to live human relation.
   
4. not all techniques can be done by everybody (some people are simply not fit for some techniques) As in some people just should not even try some form of gimnastic.
   

You often say that you don't work well with teachers, and that you work well with books.

 

Well books are also great in other ways. They can often give you the detailed background about a tradition or a technique. You will not learn the technique, but you might learn enough to be able to find exactly what tradition, school, teacher, you want to learn from. What about reading Daniel Ingram Book. That can help you with Buddhism.

 

And respect to the teacher... don't give up. Keep on going from school to school. Maybe sit on the back. Eventually you will link with some teacher, and then learning from him will not be a struggle.

[Smile]

Ramon, it's the efforts of many people around you meditating that will help you to dive in the depths of Vipassana. The collective energy makes it easy to step on the path... and it's not an easy one.

[Ramon25]

Well thank you everyone! I will take into account what has been said.

[Aetherous]

What I meant is learning Vipassana alone is impossible. You need a instructor and the correct setting.

 

Ah I see. Well, I disagree.

[Gerard]

Ramon, it's the efforts of many people around you meditating that will help you to dive in the depths of Vipassana. The collective energy makes it easy to step on the path... and it's not an easy one.

 

Thanks for pointing out this stuff, which shows the importance of attending retreats in those settings.

[Ramon25]

Ah I see. Well, I disagree.