Meditation and Brain Structure

[Uncle Screwtape]

[alfa]

[Uncle Screwtape]

If a pill can accomplish all this, wouldn't meditation itself become redundant?

 

A pill? The study didn't mention anything about pills. I suppose a lot of things would be made redundant if you could just pop a pill. I wonder if that would matter or if all that counts is the end result? I think the process is too important in this case to be done away with.

 

Richard

[Ben D]

Some very interesting research into the effects on the brain associated with meditation practice was carried out by Dr Yitzak Bentov. He practiced TM meditation and found a common complaint of fellow long term meditators was pain in the left foot big toe. He went on to come up with a theory to explain how this comes about,..Physio Kundalini Syndrome.

 

FWIW, I have been meditating for over thirty years and developed the left foot big toe symptoms about 10 years ago and it continues to this day.

 

Here is a link to a paper on his work.

 

Physio Kundalini Syndrome (pdf)

 

BTW, for those who are not familiar with Kundalini and its link to, not only physical, but also emotional and mental anomalies, here is a medical research paper by Dr. Greyson on the subject.

 

Physio Kundalini Syndrome - and mental illness. (pdf)

[DaoChild]

Some very interesting research into the effects on the brain associated with meditation practice was carried out by Dr Yitzak Bentov. He practiced TM meditation and found a common complaint of fellow long term meditators was pain in the left foot big toe. He went on to come up with a theory to explain how this comes about,..Physio Kundalini Syndrome.

 

FWIW, I have been meditating for over thirty years and developed the left foot big toe symptoms about 10 years ago and it continues to this day.

 

Here is a link to a paper on his work.

 

Physio Kundalini Syndrome (pdf)

 

BTW, for those who are not familiar with Kundalini and its link to, not only physical, but also emotional and mental anomalies, here is a medical research paper by Dr. Greyson on the subject.

 

Physio Kundalini Syndrome - and mental illness. (pdf)

 

Is it not simply due to postural stiffness? E.g. sitting crosslegged daily for years puts certain parts of the body to sleep...

[Unconditioned]

... removing my comments until I actually read the article

Edited July 9, 2009 by Unconditioned

[Ben D]

Is it not simply due to postural stiffness? E.g. sitting crosslegged daily for years puts certain parts of the body to sleep...

 

Thank you for your input DaoChild, I'm sure the researchers would have considered that as a factor as a part of the methodology. As for my own observation, I haven't been able to sit lotus, half lotus, or even cross-legged for many years and there has been no sign of remission, so IMO that would seem to rule posture out as a major factor.

[Ramon25]

Thank you for your input DaoChild, I'm sure the researchers would have considered that as a factor as a part of the methodology. As for my own observation, I haven't been able to sit lotus, half lotus, or even cross-legged for many years and there has been no sign of remission, so IMO that would seem to rule posture out as a major factor.

 

How painful is it really? also is it harmful and what is it?

thanks

[Ben D]

How painful is it really? also is it harmful and what is it?

thanks

 

Hi Ramon25, initially it was acute and very painful, but slowly evolved into a chronic condition that forever goes through cycles of increased burning pain to just a somewhat bearable tingle on the low side. Unfortunately at the time, I was unaware that my very comprehensive meditation and other religious practices such as hatha yoga that filled my life could have anything to do with it. The medical fraternity likewise ran many tests, scans, etc., and were completely baffled. It was almost 18 months from the onset that medical people found it was a progressive condition of the sympathetic - parasympathetic nervous system which they called RSD (Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy). I was told that if it had been diagnosed within the first 6 months, it can quite easily be resolved, but after that it becomes very difficult if not impossible to treat.

 

Now it was a few years more when I came across Bentov's model of Physio Kundalini Syndrome being associated with long term meditation and the left foot big toe symptom. I was aware since the late nineteen eighties that that I was experiencing symptoms that fitted a Kundalini arousal, and in fact these symptoms began in earnest in 1980.

 

The prognosis for me at this time is to continue to be housebound, can't walk for more than a few steps at a time without initiating a pain cycle. The upside of this is that if meditation practice really is efficacious in progressing towards enlightenment, then there is hope yet for that's about what constitutes my life now.

[Ramon25]

what type of meditation have you been doing And how long everyday? Would any type of meditation cause this? Such as deep abdominal breathing or inner dissolving? Also if the legnth of meditation was short such as 15 to 20 minutes a day would it still manifest? Thank you and I am sorry to hear of your condition.

[Ben D]

what type of meditation have you been doing And how long everyday? Would any type of meditation cause this? Such as deep abdominal breathing or inner dissolving? Also if the legnth of meditation was short such as 15 to 20 minutes a day would it still manifest? Thank you and I am sorry to hear of your condition.

 

It started in the late 70's with silent detached self observation of my thoughts, about 30 + minutes daily and to the extent that I could maintain self awareness of my thoughts at all times. It come from trying to live my life according to J. Krishnamurti's philosophy.

 

A sudden 'spiritual' awakening occurred in 1980 that threw my life into turmoil (the kundalini arousal) and my meditation practice now took the form of pranayama (breathing) meditation. During this time I was not able to work a lot of the time and so it would have averaged about 2 + hours a day, with the self-awareness concentration of thought process now practically continuous at all times.

 

 

Then in the late 80's I began dhyana meditation which has the goal of stilling the mind to bring about the cessation of conceptual thinking. By this time I was almost permanently unemployed, and meditation time increased to about 3 + hours a day with the self-awareness thing continuous.

 

Since I have never really worked again since then, the dhyana meditation has continued to incrementally increase in duration to now it would be about 4 + hours a day with the detached observation of any thoughts when they arise being maintained continuously always.

 

Now in reality it is not as clear cut as that I've outlined for there was a lot of experimentation and so yes, there were periods where I did the deep abdominal breathing,..its hard to delineate sometimes between where some yogic practice ends and meditation begins or even where self observation practice ends and where meditation begins.

 

Concerning what causes it, I'm inclined to agree with the reason Yitzak Bentov gives, that of the 7hz resonance set up by the heart/blood standing waves being converted to a mechanical one and transferred through the spine to the axis where it affects that part of the brain that is associated with the left foot big toe. Its all there in the pdf link given above in my first post on this thread.

 

As to whether 15 to 20 minutes a day could ultimately bring it on, I doubt it. The big toe problem started in August 1998 after about 20 years of continuous daily meditation practice that was much longer that. My whole life from dawn to bedtime was in some way generally involving some religious discipline. That my situation was seen as compulsive and obsessive by family and friends is natural for only those who have subjectively experienced the true kundalini awakening truly understand (if they survive it) the bewilderment and awe and terror of it. That is why I post the second pdf link by Dr. Greyson for it is good to see that some professionals are now becoming aware that spiritual discipleship is not a walk in the park and that great trials are involved that are not just theoretical.

 

Thank you Raman25 for your interest and your sympathy, but don't worry,...who knows?... maybe this karmic affliction is a two edged sword, the mortal side may not necessarily enjoy it, but the unseen spiritual purging may be a blessing that endures way beyond the short life of this body.

[Ramon25]

It started in the late 70's with silent detached self observation of my thoughts, about 30 + minutes daily and to the extent that I could maintain self awareness of my thoughts at all times. It come from trying to live my life according to J. Krishnamurti's philosophy.

 

A sudden 'spiritual' awakening occurred in 1980 that threw my life into turmoil (the kundalini arousal) and my meditation practice now took the form of pranayama (breathing) meditation. During this time I was not able to work a lot of the time and so it would have averaged about 2 + hours a day, with the self-awareness concentration of thought process now practically continuous at all times.

Then in the late 80's I began dhyana meditation which has the goal of stilling the mind to bring about the cessation of conceptual thinking. By this time I was almost permanently unemployed, and meditation time increased to about 3 + hours a day with the self-awareness thing continuous.

 

Since I have never really worked again since then, the dhyana meditation has continued to incrementally increase in duration to now it would be about 4 + hours a day with the detached observation of any thoughts when they arise being maintained continuously always.

 

Now in reality it is not as clear cut as that I've outlined for there was a lot of experimentation and so yes, there were periods where I did the deep abdominal breathing,..its hard to delineate sometimes between where some yogic practice ends and meditation begins or even where self observation practice ends and where meditation begins.

 

Concerning what causes it, I'm inclined to agree with the reason Yitzak Bentov gives, that of the 7hz resonance set up by the heart/blood standing waves being converted to a mechanical one and transferred through the spine to the axis where it affects that part of the brain that is associated with the left foot big toe. Its all there in the pdf link given above in my first post on this thread.

 

As to whether 15 to 20 minutes a day could ultimately bring it on, I doubt it. The big toe problem started in August 1998 after about 20 years of continuous daily meditation practice that was much longer that. My whole life from dawn to bedtime was in some way generally involving some religious discipline. That my situation was seen as compulsive and obsessive by family and friends is natural for only those who have subjectively experienced the true kundalini awakening truly understand (if they survive it) the bewilderment and awe and terror of it. That is why I post the second pdf link by Dr. Greyson for it is good to see that some professionals are now becoming aware that spiritual discipleship is not a walk in the park and that great trials are involved that are not just theoretical.

 

Thank you Raman25 for your interest and your sympathy, but don't worry,...who knows?... maybe this karmic affliction is a two edged sword, the mortal side may not necessarily enjoy it, but the unseen spiritual purging may be a blessing that endures way beyond the short life of this body.

 

 

Well thats impressive amount of time to meditate. So how do you support yourself if you dont mind me asking? I too went through a kundalini arousal and yes i agree (if you survive it) as mine was a hellish dark night of the soul alomg with moments if imense awe. I am now after two and a half years after blast off finally able to start intergrating some sort of spiritual practice into my life again, as before it was not possible. I am by nature an ungrounded person so i am trying to find way's of a grounded spiritual practice. As to your bodily situation I would not want to bring that upon myself as the body is very importnt to me but I understand what you mean. Any how I wish you luck and thanks for the responses.

[Ben D]

Physio_Kundalini_Syndrome_by_Swami_Satyananda_Saraswati.pdf

Well thats impressive amount of time to meditate. So how do you support yourself if you dont mind me asking? I too went through a kundalini arousal and yes i agree (if you survive it) as mine was a hellish dark night of the soul alomg with moments if imense awe. I am now after two and a half years after blast off finally able to start intergrating some sort of spiritual practice into my life again, as before it was not possible. I am by nature an ungrounded person so i am trying to find way's of a grounded spiritual practice. As to your bodily situation I would not want to bring that upon myself as the body is very importnt to me but I understand what you mean. Any how I wish you luck and thanks for the responses.

Hi Raman25, I was age 36 at the time of the kundalini awakening and had a family, a home, investments, etc., and I had been diligently working and saving and investing with the view to retire at age 45 with sufficient income to support my family and fulfil my hearts desire, to get into religious practice full time. The irony is that as it worked out, by the time I was age 45, I was divorced, no assets, and just enough savings left to last a few more years without work, but I was experiencing the cosmos full time in a real way that could not have been experienced as a mere theoretical religious scholar.

 

So when my money was about to run out when I was age 50, I went to social security and received unemployment benefits for a few years before I gave up on the idea of ever being worldly prosperous again. At that time I applied to social security for a pension and with the support of the doctor who originally diagnosed the bi-polar condition, got it without any problems. So by 52 I was retired.

 

By age 56 I developed the left foot big toe symptoms of the physio-kundalini-sydrome diagnosed by doctors as reflex-sympathetic dystrophy and here I am at age 66 confined to my rented unit.

 

My journey no doubt has been like so many others,.. the wheels of life turn slowly, but they turn surely, and they indeed grind exceedingly fine! Gone are all the glorious expectations that filled my ego mind about the spiritual journey's end, but is been replaced by some true clarity and understanding.

 

Still, one wouldn't wish my physical, emotional, and mental trials on another, so all the best in the quest to find

out what and who you really are.

 

 

On Edit. Testing to see if I can attach the Physio Kundalini Syndrome pdf files directly to this post.

 

Physio_Kundalini_Syndrome_by_Swami_Satyananda_Saraswati.pdf Kundalini_Psychosis_or_Transcendence.pdfGreyson1993.pdf

[Ramon25]

wow that sounds like one hell of a ride! Well as long as you feel fullfilled than it was all worth it. I had my kundalini at 16 I am now 19 years old. At the time I had to drop out of school. I was livving with my girlfriend at the time (young I know) and the relashonship was not going well before kundalini. After kundalini we are now extremly close, it actually saved us. I am extremely grateful for it as I could not have continued much longer with the mindset I had. I wish you good luck aswell.

[New Dawn Fades]

22 who had practiced various forms of meditation, including Zazen, Samatha and Vipassana, among others.

 

Zazen and Vipassana are stillness (non thinking) meditations, I don't know about Samatha. Whether or not the meditations are stillness or focussed could make a difference in the results.