POWER GENERATION

[enouch]

[Josh Young]

The odd part is that they absorb AC, why not DC?

 

 

This sounds so easy to test too, if they can do this they could prove it on video and the world would change.

[Aetherous]

I think muscle stim units are DC (good ones have to be, otherwise it's not safe to have an alternating current). Done it myself up to 400 volts...or amps...don't know much about electricity so I could be wrong.

 

Edit: my bad, now that I think about it, it must be 400 amps, not volts. The voltage must have just been standard for America...110v.

Edited July 9, 2009 by Scotty

[enouch]

The odd part is that they absorb AC, why not DC?

This sounds so easy to test too, if they can do this they could prove it on video and the world would change.

 

 

 

I don't wish to start a debate here again...but these feats have been captured on video and the world doesn't change at all.See Prahlad Jani or the non-decomposing[actually dead] monk.Some have reported dc I believe I'll check into it, I know a person who attended a seminar by Robert Peng told me he talked about absorbing the lighting and other esoteric practices.This was of course during breaks.At any rate according to Dr. Eisenberg from Harvard heart abnormalities[irregularities] and other physiological symtoms should have surfaced.Correct me if I'm wrong but 200-250 volts is pretty shocking[bad joke] no?

[Josh Young]

Can you link me to the video? I have never seen nor heard of this before.

 

I also wish to understand how the term "power" relates to this.

When someone increased their "power" by electricity, what is this referring to and how is the increase in power demonstrated and measured?

 

gradually learn to absorb higher and higher voltages of electricity from a wall socket or a generator directly into your body to boost your power

 

Since wall sockets cannot be adjusted for voltage, how is the regulation pertaining to "higher and higher voltages" accomplished?

 

Can you link me to the original post you are mentioning?

 

Thanks!

Edited July 9, 2009 by Josh Young

[enouch]

[Josh Young]

Thanks for sharing that. I found it very entertaining to read and stimulating.

 

I will not venture to form an opinion upon it, for I lack experience enough to be able to do so.

[enouch]

Thanks for sharing that. I found it very entertaining to read and stimulating.

 

I will not venture to form an opinion upon it, for I lack experience enough to be able to do so.

 

 

 

 

 

A very refreshing outlook! Here is a clip from a guy who lives in L.A. I believe you can look him up in the yellow pages.Jo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnLV3YPUTS4

[enouch]

A very refreshing outlook! Here is a clip from a guy who lives in L.A. I believe you can look him up in the yellow pages.Jo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnLV3YPUTS4

 

 

 

Here are a few more remarkable feats, the japanese one I'm a little wary of.These have all been presented on taobums before.

 

 

Japanese Qigong(kikou) doctor Kanzawa - Amazing!" by magechon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=madoDvtKEes

[Vajrasattva]

[minkus]

Yust in case anyone would wonna try:

 

DONT WIRE YOURSELF TO THE ELECTRICITY NET !! You can get electrocuted to death and have lower rebirths for the next 10.000 years.

 

Happy weekend

Edited July 10, 2009 by minkus

[Josh Young]

I thought of a way to test this.

Normally electricity is not used in the outlets, but when it is the meter records it and also records how much.

 

So if a person near an outlet can cause a meter to run for a house that has no operating appliances, a meter that without such meditation or appliances does not move: then the only conclusion is that the draw of power is caused by the person.

[enouch]

I thought of a way to test this.

Normally electricity is not used in the outlets, but when it is the meter records it and also records how much.

 

So if a person near an outlet can cause a meter to run for a house that has no operating appliances, a meter that without such meditation or appliances does not move: then the only conclusion is that the draw of power is caused by the person.

 

 

Interview with Dr. Elmer Green: Father [at least in America] of biofeedback.

 

 

DiCarlo: Over the past several years you have spent your time on a project you have named "The Copper Wall Experiment." I have to admit, that sounds very intriguing. Please explain.

 

Green: When I was a student in the department of physics at the University of Minnesota, I had read about the use of a copper wall that meditators would sit in front of to induce deeper meditative states in the book called "The Mahatma Letters to A.P. Sinnet. " It occurred to me, if people were meditating in a really potent way, they may very well be generating electrical voltages in their body. Over many years, the idea stuck in my mind, until about ten years ago, when we finally had the chance to test it. So we set up a copper wall which people sit in front of, with their body facing true north. They are isolated from ground by glass blocks. They have a bar magnet over their heads. After doing all this set-up work, we began to measure the voltages that developed on the walls as a way of finding out whether or not their body changed voltage. I didn't want to put wires directly on the body for a number of technical reasons. If you change the voltage of an electrical object in a room, it has an effect on others things too. So I just wired up the wall to see what was happening to the human body.

 

DiCarlo: How do you know that these voltages being measured were not attributable to normal electrical fluctuations of the body that have been commonly observed?

 

Green: In the first place, the person is sitting alone in the room, isolated from ground. The normal body voltages that are generated in a situation like that are usually in the milli-volt range, which is very small. Also, you would expect a person's body voltage to drift by as much as two volts from a buildup of static electricity. So you expect some fluctuation. But the voltages that we were getting connected with a healing were shooting up and then returning to baseline by as much as 200 volts on occasion. The healer voltages are not normal body voltages. They are at least 1,000 times bigger. So that's the problem. We asked ourselves, "In the first place, where did all the voltage come from? In the second place, where did it go to when it disappeared?" Generally, the pulses of electricity in the body of the healers lasted only 4 or 5 seconds. So a huge voltage would appear then disappear. I thought that was quite fascinating.

 

DiCarlo: Were these surges in electrostatic charges accompanied by an intention to heal?

 

Green: Generally speaking, yes, the healers were trying to heal, although over a period of years, they had generated so much of this kind of phenomenon with their bodies, that even when they weren't trying to heal people-if for example they were just meditating in the room- we got electrical pulses from their bodies.

 

In 6 meditations sessions, one of the healers produced only one pulse of voltage. But in the first of the healing sessions, there were 15 to 20 pulses generated, and that was connected with the intention to heal. And that was generally true, although one of the healers was bursting with energy to such a degree that this pulsing phenomenon occurred even in the meditation sessions.

 

DiCarlo: Fascinating! Well, what sort of conclusion have you drawn from these experiments, recognizing that the research is not yet complete?

 

Green: Well, in the first place, I have accepted that healing at a distance is a fact. I think that the religions of all times which have talked about this are not wrong. Of course, these anecdotal types of accounts do not constitute scientific evidence. But I think that there has been enough research now regarding the effects of prayer at a distance to indicate that it really is happening. So I accept that. That's the first point.

 

Second point is, that whatever the energy is that does the healing, one of its correlates is electrical phenomena. I am not saying that electricity is the cause of the healing. If that were the case you could do it with a battery.

 

DiCarlo: So would you say your work has focused upon understanding the mechanisms involved in healing?

 

Green: Yes, that's right. But it's taking for granted that something is happening. We are not trying to find out if healings are taking place. We're just trying to find out what's going on.

 

DiCarlo: Well, if something is happening, I am wondering if the mechanism involved might prove to be subtle energy.....But first, what is subtle energy?

 

Green: Subtle energy is something that hasn't been detected in any scientific way except by its effects. If you look at all the careful, clean studies on intercessory prayer on heart patients in a cardiac unit in which the people they were praying for were a block away for example, you find that sure enough, the prayer produced a healing effect. So, we assumed that something was happening, but not in the normal, scientific sense of electromagnetic energies. It was something else. Since it can't be defined or directly detected except by its effects, it got the name of subtle. Chi is a good example of subtle energy. Subtle energy is that which must exist in order to produce the effects it is producing. I can't imagine healing taking place without any energies at all being involved. That's the first point. The second point is, if you talk to healers, or you talk to Qi Gong people, or you talk to people who are talented in their ability to affect physical objects using their minds, they always talk as if they are handling some kind of energy. If you ask them questions about it, they will say, "Well, it's sort of like electricity." So I am assuming-and this is part of the metaphysical tradition too-that energy exists at four different levels, the crudest of which is the one we call electrons. I am assuming that instrumentation will be developed for directly detecting and photographing this stuff. It's very similar to the development of electricity. In the early days, researchers noticed frog legs twitching on a wire rack when lightening struck nearby. But they didn't know anything about electricity or electrical induction or magnetic induction. They simply assumed there was a connection of some kind.

 

So in those days, you could say that electricity was subtle energy since it could not be measured.

 

DiCarlo: That's amazing. So you feel that we will be some day be able to measure this energy directly?

 

Green: I think it's pretty inevitable that finally we will be able to develop instrumentation that will measure it in the same way that we now measure electricity.

 

DiCarlo: So, what would be the implications of your work to the average individual, if these subtle energies associated with the body, are scientifically validated?

 

Green: The importance of this is that-and I believe this will happen in the next century-medical teams will have healers as part of the team. On occasion, medical people can't keep a patient alive long enough during surgery to complete their work. Healers would be very useful in helping maintain health.

 

And not only that, I am assuming that in the future, medical teams will include what we would call an intuitive or a psychic diagnostician. Somebody like Caroline Myss who works with Norman Shealy. And not only will we have psychic diagnosticians, but we will have healers who will supply energy not only to heal, but to keep the body going. I would imagine that medical people, as is the case nowadays, would still be in charge.

 

DiCarlo: But there would be a partnership?

 

Green: There would be a partnership, yes. Now a lot of people who are sick don't go to a medical doctor, they go to a healer who is an alternative practitioner. And there are thousands of people out there who call themselves healing practitioners. But they are not accepted scientifically. But I feel that eventually they will come to a place where they will be recognized and their services made use of.

 

DiCarlo: Are you personally able to sense subtle energy?

 

Green: To tell you the truth, I have never attempted to document that. But my feeling is that everybody on the whole planet who has a physical body, has a body of subtle energy also. I accept the yogic theory that the physical body is the representation of an energy structure. If we knew all about it, we would call it a subtle energy structure.

 

DiCarlo: Do you think this energy field represents the ultimate link between mind and body?

 

Green: Sure. I believe that is actually how biofeedback works. I think that's how any action of the physical body works. Say you want to move your hand. First you think of it. But the question is, "How does your intention move your hand?" After you have thought of it, how does that thought make your hand move?" Since the nerves that operate the hand are up somewhere in the cortex of the brain. There is some sort of intentionality that causes those nerves to fire. The way the yogis would explain it, is that the mind and the body aren't the same thing; that the interface between the mind and the body is the subtle energy domain." Anytime you think of anything, the subtle energies are activated and of course that activates the neurology.

It's like this: Say you have somebody working at a computer. They have an idea and they want to write something, so they tap on some keys and words appear on the monitor. But the mechanism in between involves what they intend to do. There are quite a few intermediary steps before the words can be seen. In an analogous way, our intentionality activates the subtle energies of our body, which some of the Russian experimenters by the way, are calling the bio-plasma body. The subtle energy body then influences the neurology which fire and allow your fingers to hit the appropriate letters on the key board.

 

Actually, becoming an Olympic athlete consists of training the neurology, and it is always trained through intention. All the athletes I have talked train themselves through intention. Now the yogis would understand that perfectly. They would say that it's the training of the energies that manipulate the physical body.

 

DiCarlo: One of the great characteristics of the emerging world view is that the domain of the spirit and soul is now being acknowledged and embraced. In many fields, people are discussing the "reality" of this aspect of our being. According to yogic tradition, what is the nature of the soul?

 

Green: From the yogic perspective, it's another level of energy. Aurobindo, the great Indian philosopher who died around 1950, put in very clearly when he said, "The highest spiritual levels that we know of our energy states also." The physical body is manipulated, generally speaking, by the emotions. Emotions have an effect on the physical body. But he said, emotions themselves are an energy state in a subtle energy domain, and they are focused on the body. Ideas and mind are also an energy state. And above that, there are various spiritual levels. In the Tibetan system, it's called the void and according to the Tibetan Teacher W. Y. Evans West, there are 28 different levels in the void. And each one of those levels according to Aurobindo, is an energy state-wheels within wheels within wheels.

 

DiCarlo: Through your work, you are exploring the frontiers of human potential. Have you discovered any boundaries to that potential?

 

Green: We haven't found any boundaries. It's sort of like coming to the edge of a continent and just finding the edge-we don't know where the boundaries are. We're just beginning to start exploring the continent.

 

I don't think that scientists as a whole have done more than landed and planted their flag. Not much has been discovered yet.

 

The ultimate human potential has been nicely described by the Tibetans, and that is this: to become conscious of all the different levels of who you are and to be able to work on all these different levels at the same time instead, unlike the present situation in which we have a conscious self and an unconscious self. If you talk to psychologists and the psychiatrists they will agree that there is an unconscious self. And that's what the Tibetans and the Hindus and the Chinese and the mystics have always said. But in the unconscious self are all the spiritual levels as well as the normal subconscious which Freud talked about. Our ultimate human potential is to become aware of all these things, and when we do, we are able to answer the question, "Who are we?" and "What is our own nature as a human being?" We find our relationship to the larger whole, in other words to Divine Being. That's the idea of the ultimate of human potential, it is to find your relationship. The Christians say, "To find your relationship to God." Some of the modern scientists might talk about it as finding your relationship to nature. DiCarlo: How significant is the work of frontier scientists, such as Bill Tiller, who has developed a model for understanding these subtle energies?

 

Green: Bill Tiller is a scientist who is aware of the fact that these internal domains or other energies exist and he's trying to help build a science of it. Scientists are the priests of acceptance, and it's important for the graduation of humanity-to use Buckminster Fuller's expression-that scientists learn enough so that they can break through, expand the frontiers and lead the way. People depend upon scientists. So Bill Tiller and others who are working in that area are interested in developing knowledge of how all of this stuff happens.

 

As Ralph Alexander said, "Everything happens according to natural law." Sai Baba said, "There is no such thing as a miracle. It's only the application of natural law." And scientists like Bill Tiller are trying to make it objective so people can understand it better, and that will help them go through the transformation.

 

A lot of meditators are doing self-exploration-they want to explore. Quite a few scientists are trying to explain. These explanations are important because they help people shape their world view. If the world view includes these subtle energies, then when the energies become important in your life, you won't be so shook up so to speak. It makes it possible to move through the transformation process with less pain

 

 

It goes on but the copper wall experiement is all I truly wanted to share.You can find the restof the interview online.

[Josh Young]

I read about these experiments in K.S.Cohens Qigong book. They are neat!

 

Still the production of voltage does not mean that the power is sourced from AC outlets. I am very interested in seeing the meter run.

[gendao]

[enouch]

Cool account, I remember reading this some time ago...but would definitely love to see the "hand-grilled steak" trick. :lol:Unfortunately, I believe the heat generated in those wet paper towels is created by exothermic reactions from chemicals mixed in them, not his qi.

 

As far as running juice, some people have gotten struck by lightning and survived. Others not. So, it may seem that a lot of it depends upon your own body's resistance (or lack thereof).

 

 

 

 

And the infrared camera-[how hot before burns begin?]202 degrees? Their is also the medical well being of his client the DOCTOR.Of course this could be placebo but the doctor didn't believe in the first place.Also the body lightness skill demonstrated is quite nice.The steak I'm refering to comes from Dr. David Eisenberg's writings and encounters with qi gung masters.The heat element is quite consistent with yang chi healers.

[enouch]

[everseeking]

Okay, here's my two cents. I haven't read all the posts here, but I think you all will find this interesting.

 

I've trained Iron Palm for about 7 years, the first five or so of which was exclusively in a family system which involved longer than typical striking sessions on a bag mostly filled with mung beans, with steel shot added. Is also involved striking (very specifically) 'harder' than what martial artists would consider to be typical for Iron Palm.

 

Point being, a couple years go I was meeting up with some old friends at a bar, and one of the employees was an old friend. She had a shock baton--like a tazer-that they kept for bouncing people. She said it wasn't fully charged.

Anyhow, after a daring first attempt, I found that I could hold onto it while it shocked me. You could hear it quite loudly everytime it would zap me, but I was still able to hold on. No one else could hang on after one zap.

 

I thought it was pretty cool. A couple years later I read something in a qigong book by Dr. Yang Jwing Ming about how it was common on some form of practice to strike the body-especially the dan tien-with bean bags to strengthen the nerves and condition the fascia in order to make it be able to hold more chi. I think he mentioned losing extra fat too.

 

Pretty interesting stuff. I dont recall any more specific stuff than that, and am not at home right now, so I cant look it up. But if anyone wants me to I could in a few days.

 

--N-

[joeblast]

One important thing to note when discussing Voltage is that it is analogous to frequency of the waveform - where the real danger lies is in the amperage, which correlates to the height of the waveform. So saying you 'can take' 200 volts isnt really saying much without the perspective of amperage in it. At a low enough amperage, just about anyone would be about to withstand 200, 400 volts. At a high enough amperage, a relatively low voltage could fry the shit out of you.

Think of the force equation f=mv. Force = mass times velocity. Same thing here, electromotive force is voltage x amperage.

 

With respect to magnets...I cant really say anything concrete. Got a pair of 1"x.25" neodymium ones and they will stick to either side of the laogong...almost feels like reaching into another dimension or something, maybe even makes the hands a little more sensitive. But dont quote me on it Just be careful, because strong ones snap together very hard and very fast - I've gotten some skin caught between them before and its not pleasant.

[ralis]

I think muscle stim units are DC (good ones have to be, otherwise it's not safe to have an alternating current). Done it myself up to 400 volts...or amps...don't know much about electricity so I could be wrong.

 

Edit: my bad, now that I think about it, it must be 400 amps, not volts. The voltage must have just been standard for America...110v.

 

If it were 400 amps, you would not be around to write about this.

 

ralis

[everseeking]

Agreed--

I think that maybe it is watts or some other measurement. I believe that about 9 amps is more than enough to kill someone.

 

Heating elements, which use a higher amperage than stuff like radios, use around 9 amps I think.

 

Im not sure on the specifics, but Im pretty sure that although some people may be able to handle much more electricity than others, no one could take 400 amps, or anything close.