Depressed.

[blacktiger]

Hello, I have been studying the taoist alchemical practices for a while now, maybe a few years, and they interest me greatly. I came to realize that ejaculating really does have a toll on the body to late, for now I feel weak kidneys , loss of spirit , and sometimes my testicles feel like they are sensitive and ache(is this a result from ejaculation?). So far I haven't masturbated in over 4 months , and I plan to never have sex( until I really learn the bedroom arts.) Regardless of my attempts at remaining celibate , I still get nocturnal emissions and they really piss me off because they make me feel terrible, this morning I woke up with a sore back and aching testicles. I don't really know what to say anymore but I feel like quitting on my life sometimes, to the point where I even wanted to kill myself because I can't deal with myself anymore. I don't have any spirit left to do the things I could do, and the funny thing is, some of it is not my fault. I can chose not to masturbate, but I can't control nocturnal emissions so why the fuck do I have to pay the price for it? I realize many people are not in my situation because they have not wasted as much jing as me. I feel as though I should just kill myself because the damage I've done is irreversible. To top it off, I haven't found any type of teacher with this knowledge to help me in life. I just wish there was a glimpse of hope to make me keep going in life, but I just do not see anything anymore...

 

-blacktiger

[Aetherous]

Don't kill yourself over having nocturnal emissions. SERIOUSLY, it's not that big of a big deal! There are much worse things on the path other than that, so you will have to work on being able to cope with your life in order to truly progress. These practices aren't a way of escaping your life as it is.

 

So do not let such stupid things get you down. It's out of your control! Being able to contain all of your seed means very little. It's much more important to be able to meditate correctly (or have another good practice), because with that, everything else is made right. Then the nocturnal emissions should stop.

 

I recommend awareness watching awareness and abandon release method of meditation, which can be found with a google search...but maybe you have your own preference.

 

There are many things you could try that might directly help the issue. One thing is doing gentle abdominal breathing sometime during 11 pm - 1 am. This is recommended in the book, Taoist Yoga by Charles Luk. I'm sure others will have many other suggestions.

 

A favorite trick of mine is from Baolin Wu's book...just rub the earlobes until they're red and hot multiple times per day. Doing it for the past month has helped a lot in my upward draw practice.

 

So good luck, and once again: don't kill yourself over something that isn't that important!

[Desert Eagle]

I am in an almost similar situation, no masters nearby and frauds on the internet, and some previous loss of jing, so I use herbs and try to find what works for me on my own.

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=9610

[awake]

You're full of it.

 

Go, do it.

 

This is your mind using a good decision you made against you.

 

"Watch all and be all like all is nothing"

[de_paradise]

I sure do know how it feels to be surprised by a nocturnal emission, after being so careful, it sucks man. It does get easier, and even though your little rant seems over the top, you are building an emotional aversion to nocturnal emission which can eventually pervade your dreamscape, and that will help stop your dream character from going all the way.

 

However. Something in your writing shows that the jing issue is a metaphor for some greater pessimism. Emotional instability comes with the territory of alchemy, and you know if you are up to it or not. Sexual frustration, mood swings, masochism come with the territory of sexual abstinence. Ive been there, and it will happen again, unfortunately. The only thing I can suggest is to monitor your self-talk, because idle negative thoughts snowball, but they can be cut off before they get too big. Example: "Fuck life sucks...no wait...lifes ok."

[Meson]

Edited July 13, 2009 by Meson

[Iskote]

Edited July 14, 2009 by Iskote

[Mal]

Healthy Perspective?

Actually, I think that long term semen retention is askew of a primary healthy goal - but is close enough to the truth to be attractive. Let me explain.

 

It's like this. First, you are convinced that saving sexual energy is a good thing - and with that belief you generate some dedication. Next, you learn how to engage in (one, or several rounds of) sex and yet abstain from ejaculation. So, you store more male sexual energy, and you grow in polarity as more is saved... Inevitably, a strong polarity will express, you'll ejaculate, perhaps against your beliefs and will. And you reap the pleasure of orgasm, the depletion of ejaculation, and the psychological trauma of uncontrollably doing something against your will. Then, you follow your spiritually involved beliefs, you work to improve: you save sexual energy... and the cycle repeats. This sort of cycle can be frustrating in the short term, and over the course of years can cause serious harm.

 

So, what's a better way?

http://www.alchemicaltaoism.com/

 

Check it out

[blacktiger]

Iskote,

 

Thanks for the help, this is what I was looking for, some type of exercise to help:

 

Sit upright, raise up both feet, rub until warm the soles of both feet, and move the air right and left each in 30 mouthfuls, and so the semen will not flow away. The Chinese believe that the ching is secreted in the kidneys and can be dispersed throughout the entire body, and thus be prevented from collecting and flowing away.

 

 

However, what does he mean by move the air right and left each in 30 mouthfuls?

[Lucky7Strikes]

I really think the whole preserving Jing thing is pointless when one's energy is directed outwards through desires and external attachments. I mean, your body is constantly interacting with the environment.

 

Unless you think you can physically spread semen throughout the body, which would be pretty damn gross and impossible , you should know that the the essence is NOT semen itself.

 

I'm not saying those exercises do not help, (check out cloud and rain technique on Trunk's site), but without rewiring the mind, your body and intent will be crashing into each other...hence oppression...hence stagnant qi flow...and then...the dark side..

[blacktiger]

Iskote,

 

Thanks for the help, this is what I was looking for, some type of exercise to help:

 

Sit upright, raise up both feet, rub until warm the soles of both feet, and move the air right and left each in 30 mouthfuls, and so the semen will not flow away. The Chinese believe that the ching is secreted in the kidneys and can be dispersed throughout the entire body, and thus be prevented from collecting and flowing away.

 

 

However, what does he mean by move the air right and left each in 30 mouthfuls?

[Josh Young]

This is like doing a taiji form, if you do one on the side of a mountain then you have to change your footwork, because the ground is not flat, level or barren. Do not let your form trap you.

 

Question what you want and why you want it.

If you are too invested it can blind and bind.

 

The burdon of self-mind is very heavy.

Let go but do not give up.

[Iskote]

Iskote,

 

Thanks for the help, this is what I was looking for, some type of exercise to help:

 

Sit upright, raise up both feet, rub until warm the soles of both feet, and move the air right and left each in 30 mouthfuls, and so the semen will not flow away. The Chinese believe that the ching is secreted in the kidneys and can be dispersed throughout the entire body, and thus be prevented from collecting and flowing away.

However, what does he mean by move the air right and left each in 30 mouthfuls?

 

Hi black tiger. I can't say for sure what was originally meant by 'move the air right and left each in 30 mouthfuls', but 'move the air' likely means 'move or stimulate the qi', so it may just mean to stimulate or

circulte the qi on the left and on the right, with 30 breaths for each side. The main theme of the exercise

appears to be the rubbing of the soles of the feet. You can just breath relaxed, natural, deep, softly, and slow

through the nose for all of these exercises if the exact breathing is not clear. By rubbing and massaging the soles of the feet, one is stimulating the energy circulation on each side of the body. So, 'move the air right and left' may be just alluding to stimulating the qi on the left and right sides of the body. I think just

massaging the soles of both feet for a while and breathing deep and relaxed will be sufficient. I you want

to hold the idea in your mind that you are stimulating the qi on the left and right sides of the body while doing the exercise, that is up to you.

 

Don't under estimate the value of doing the wuji standing meditation posture that I mentioned as well.

Facing north while doing it is supposed to be most beneficial for the kidneys. I can't say how much difference

the direction you face actually makes, but I believe the standing meditation will be effective regardless.

It is different than doing sitting meditation, and I believe it will be helpful for your situation if you can practice it 15 to 20 minutes every evening. Doing the foot rubbing, sitting toe grasping stretching exercise, and lower back massage exerces and the wuji standing meditation should help with your situation. However,

IMO, these exercises may not help much if one is often thinking sexual thoughts. Try to avoid anything

too overly sexually stimulating for a while and do the exercises regularly, and I think you should start to see

improvement. In Taoism, moderation is the key.

 

It may take some time before you start to see some results, but if you do the wuji standing meditation facing north, and some of the other exercises, and try to sleep on your sides with legs somewhat bent (you can try

alternating to both the left and right sides, but the right is usually the preferred side,) I think

you should start seeing an improvement within a few months, if you practice regularly. It can be hard to

sleep on the same side for the whole night, so alternating between sides should be OK. Practicing

the exercises every evening is the best. You can supplement with other exercises as well, if

you come across other exercises that help with this type of condition. If you have a chinese TCM

doctor in your area, you may want to consider consulting with them as well. Acupuncture and herbs

may also help.

 

Best wishes from Islote...

Edited July 15, 2009 by Iskote

[Li TaoRen]

Blacktiger. A problem many people have is attempting to diagnose themselves with little knowledge. TCM diagnosis is very complex and unless you are schooled it is wise to consult a TCM doctor. Ive studied TCM and Medical Qigong for many years and have made mistakes early on as well. You may think the jing is depleated, but nocturnal emission is a sign of abundant jing. So the problem likely lies in transformation and balance. Also, we all are impatient and want to practice these obscure sexual or complex qigong excercises. It is important to learn to meditate first! Practice some simple external qigong and postures, and when you have some balance you can undertake some more advanced practice. When we read a couple of books and go off on our own, we don't necessarily have all the info we need. We make modifications and end up suffering from Qi deviations. Sleep well, eat well, excercise, be positive and know your limitations and Im sure you will do fine.

[dragonfire]

Visit an acupuncturist and recommend herbs to tonify your essence. It will take

minimum 6 months to recover. 1 year is better.

 

Refrain from all sexual activity and do abdominal breathing everyday and

practise meditation. Do this for 6 months to 1 year and you will be back

to normal.

 

Nocturnal emissions simply mean your mind is thinking of sex. But its really

no big deal. You'll probably just get it when the sperm bank is full and

need releasing.

[Iskote]

Here is perhaps a somewhat different perspective regarding the concepts of jing and internal cultivation,

as I have learned them and understand them. There are obviously various perspectives

on this, but here is my perspective anyway. Jing (ching) does not equate directly to sperm. However, jing is

converted or used in the creation of sperm. So sperm contains a converted form of jing, but it is

not jing. From my understanding, once jing is converted and used in the creation of sperm, it is said

by some that it is no longer useful in internal alchelmy, although by using certain 'sexual cultivation' techniques one may possibly be able to make improvements to one's health. The reality is though, based on feedback from various people who have experimented with such techniques and posted of their results, more people seem to have run into problems practicing such sexual cultivation techniques than those who report good results. Now it might possibly be that many people are just not practicing correctly, but then if that is the case one has to wonder about whether the techniques are being taught and presented correctly by the teachers.

If it is so easy to go wrong with such practices, are the teachers making that very clear and also

making it very clear exactly what steps need to be followed to avoid such problems, and also

providing all the necessary information to help correct and resolve any problems that might arise from such practices? To simply say these techniques are good if done correctly, and people only have problems because

they aren't practicing correctly, is probably not a fair assessment. I really wonder how many people

would actually try such techniques if they really understood all the problems that may arise

from such practices?

 

Regarding nocturnal emissions, there can be various causes of such a problem.

For a young healthy male, such things may occur due to raging hormones and more

than a little preoccupation with sex.

However, there is also a condition that can arise that is due to a weakness in the kidney

function, from the Chinese Medicine perspective, where the kidneys are not able to

store jing the way they should, and which can lead to chronic nocturnal emissions and sperm loss.

People who suffer from this problem may feel general weakness and fatigue, aching and weakness

in the legs and lower back, low stamina and drive, and which can lead to other problems as well. This is

not the same situation as the healthy young male who is having occasional nocturnal emissions, and who does not experience any overly adverse problems from this. These are two different conditions.

 

From research I have done on this in the past, for those who suffer from the condition

of frequent nocturnal emissions or sperm loss due to weak kidneys or related deficiencies,

even acupuncture and herbs may not bring much relief except and perhaps only after a long period

of treatment. However, the types of exercies I have described in this thread, including the

wuji standing meditation supplemented with the other exercises, can sometimes start to bring

relief within a few months, even without taking herbs or getting acupuncture treatments.

As mentioned previously, one should ideally refrain from sexual activity and overt sexual stimulation

for the most part during the recovery period to help the body in the recovery process.

 

Also, one who starts seriously practicing internal arts may also experience problems with

nocturnal emissions and the exercises described can help one to overcome this problem in this situation

fairly quickly. This may not be so important for one who is very sexually active and who is practicing the internal arts mainly for health reasons. For those who want to practice the internal cultivation arts more seriously, and who minimize sexual activity for that reason, the listed exercises will be very helpful in their practice, IMO. This is my view based on my understanding and experience. I am not really interested in debating such things, but I wanted to present my view here for consideration.

 

 

Best wishes and thoughts from Iskote...

Edited July 16, 2009 by Iskote

[blacktiger]

Iskote, it is interesting how you mention that internal martial artists can receive these nocturnal emissions, why so? The reason is I have been practicing Ba Gua Zhang for a pretty long time, and sometimes the chi circulates strongly within my body, and I was wondering how this could affect my jing loss?

By the way, I have been meditating for around 2 hours a day and I did the rubbing the soles, rubbing my ears, and massaging my kidneys after a chi kung workout and I haven't experienced any nocturnal emissions for the past 3 days so I think it was a weakness of the kidneys not having enough chi at them during the night to hold my jing in place.

[yabyum24]

"To suppress a truth is to give it force beyond endurance." -Master Kan

[Iskote]

Iskote, it is interesting how you mention that internal martial artists can receive these nocturnal emissions, why so? The reason is I have been practicing Ba Gua Zhang for a pretty long time, and sometimes the chi circulates strongly within my body, and I was wondering how this could affect my jing loss?

By the way, I have been meditating for around 2 hours a day and I did the rubbing the soles, rubbing my ears, and massaging my kidneys after a chi kung workout and I haven't experienced any nocturnal emissions for the past 3 days so I think it was a weakness of the kidneys not having enough chi at them during the night to hold my jing in place.

I don't know why exactly it is, although it might have to do with the fact that one is beginning to stimulate

and open up meridians and channels in the body, and starting to build up more energy. A person

kind of has to learn how to balance their energy, and recognize the signs when they need to take extra

steps to bring things back to balance and 'close the gate' back up, so to speak. It is a learning process.

This is more a problem for people who are trying to conserve their energy to help bolster their practice.

The taoists ascetics didn't come up with various exercises and practices that deal with such problems without good reason. It is something that comes with the territory. This may be less of a problem for some

people than others. Everyone's system is different.

 

Blacktiger, I wouldn't jump to conclusions about what your exact situation is. A chinese TCM doctor might provide some further insight if you really have concerns. Otherwise just try to take an easy going attitude and

practice the exercises regularly and see if it helps over time. For myself, doing the standing zhan zhuang for a while in the evening is usually enough. When I have had stressful days, it doesn't take long doing zhan zhuang for me to start feeling things balancing out again. After a while one can start to recognize some warning signs and for me zhan zhuang really seems to start balancing things out fairly quickly. The other exercises definitely assist with this as well for me. Once a person's system starts to get stronger this may become less of an issue. If one is practicing qigong and meditation fairly seriously, it is very helpful to do the exercises every

evening. It is recommended that one do them both in the morning and evening, but not everyone has the time. It is those times when we lapse from our practice because we are quite busy or too tired or whatever

that one may be more likely to run into problems. I have also noticed that around the time of the full moon is a time I have to take extra care with this. I wonder if anyone else has experienced this?

 

Best wishes...

Edited July 18, 2009 by Iskote

[Sunya]

In my view, if one is not completely

free of sexual thoughts and sexual desire, they are not ready for internal alchemy practice.

 

so then one should be complete celibate to practice internal alchemy and therefore not have a partner? its quite impossible to have a girlfriend and at the same time not have sexual thoughts. no girlfriend will stay with you unless you fulfill that need for her to get boned.

[Iskote]

so then one should be complete celibate to practice internal alchemy and therefore not have a partner? its quite impossible to have a girlfriend and at the same time not have sexual thoughts. no girlfriend will stay with you unless you fulfill that need for her to get boned.

I am no expert on the topic of internal alchemy, and there are certainly different views on this.

Everyone can practice qigong and the internal arts and gain benefits from those practices.

People may be able to make some degree of progress in internal alchemy if they are

not celibate, but I personally have my doubts that one could practice to a high level if they weren't celibate.

That is really a practice for an ascetic, from my understanding. For healthy younger people who are quite serious about taoist meditation, but who still wish to have a family, there are practices where one completely stops their taoist meditation practice for about seven days (the exact amount of time may vary depending on the person's age and other factors) prior to having sex, and for seven days after having sex. One still

needs to practice moderation with sex though. As one starts getting older they need to reduce the frequency of

having sex. To practice to a high level in internal alchemy, I personally think one would still have to

become celibate at some point. There are different views on this from one I can gather, and

as I say I am certainly no expert on internal alchemy. For the person interested in serious cultivation,

moderation with sex at least is probably necessary. This is just my understanding, and my own personal

experience confirms this for me. Each person has to make their own choices and go their own way and learn from their own experiences. I just wanted to present my perspective on this, as I think it is helpful

for a person to know there are different perspectives out there. One can then do their own research

and come to their own conclusions.

 

 

Best wishes from Iskote...

[Aetherous]

It's so funny how guys often complain they aren't getting enough sex from their girlfriends/wives...then alchemists come along and complain they are getting too much.

 

Sorry...please continue the discussion now.

[Mal]

Ha ha that's right Scotty, perhaps I should take up alchemy

 

so then one should be complete celibate to practice internal alchemy and therefore not have a partner? its quite impossible to have a girlfriend and at the same time not have sexual thoughts. no girlfriend will stay with you unless you fulfill that need for her to get boned.

 

Can you post that to our partners for those of us who have been together for a long time. ROFLMAO Or perhaps that common situation many experience is due to too many O's at the start of those relationships, apparently orgasms weaken love bonds - http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?s=&amp...st&p=128996

 

Seriously though, there is a distinction between lustful and loving thoughts. While I don't personally feel there is a problem with lustfull, one would hope a girlfriend would promote loving thoughts too

 

Alchemy isn't my thing but can you not transmute those lustful energy's for alchemy? I love it when something stimulates me as it's a chance to draw that energy back into myself and upwards rather than let it fly forward and out.