Meditation is boring and futile

[alfa]

Whenever I meditate, I fall asleep due to the sheer boredom and futility of it all. Boredom, because it isn't interesting. Futility, because nothing comes out of it, no improvement in myself, no control, no visions, no new ideas, nothing. It's simply stagnation.

 

Put simply, there's no difference between pre and post meditation. My meditation revolves around observing myself and when I do, I simply find the same thoughts and desires coming and going. It's a monotonous process that bores me to death. If there are no thoughts, there's an empty space and that's equally boring.

 

I am not sure what to do. Do I assume meditation isn't my thing and do something else?

[Old Man Contradiction]

Whenever I meditate, I fall asleep due to the sheer boredom and futility of it all. Boredom, because it isn't interesting. Futility, because nothing comes out of it, no improvement in myself, no control, no visions, no new ideas, nothing. It's simply stagnation.

 

Put simply, there's no difference between pre and post meditation. My meditation revolves around observing myself and when I do, I simply find the same thoughts and desires coming and going. It's a monotonous process that bores me to death. If there are no thoughts, there's an empty space and that's equally boring.

 

I am not sure what to do. Do I assume meditation isn't my thing and do something else?

 

What kind of meditation are you doing? observing yourself? Like, just thinking and watching the thoughts?

 

being able to focus on what you do want to focus on and not focus on what you don't want to focus on has proven to be helpful for me.

[Tactile]

Maybe you should also try something more active? Like chi gong or yoga for example..

[Marblehead]

[Trunk]

.. bunch of unorganized thoughts ..

 

It's "the usual" for meditation to feel boring in the beginning. You might expect three weeks or so of just grinding it out, then it should start to feel good.

 

For some it never really gets fun. In any case there are things you can do to boost...

- more physical practices, from running, yoga, etc. It's more important that you find something that you enjoy and is good for you than to beat yourself over the head with something that's a drag.

- some teachers give transmission and that can sometimes help a lot. HL/MG for example, even in many of his audio talks (some free online).

 

If there are no thoughts, there's an empty space and that's equally boring.

That place is worth noting. It's good sign and a doorway that gets much much more interesting over time. I would say that since that shows up for you that you are not devoid of aptitude and perhaps there's some heaviness (at whatever level of being) that needs to clear up one way or another and then it could be more satisfying for you. Even if you leave meditation for some extended time, worth a note that it could be nice to try at some later phase.

 

good luck

Trunk

[alfa]

.. bunch of unorganized thoughts ..

 

It's "the usual" for meditation to feel boring in the beginning. You might expect three weeks or so of just grinding it out, then it should start to feel good.

 

For some it never really gets fun. In any case there are things you can do to boost...

- more physical practices, from running, yoga, etc. It's more important that you find something that you enjoy and is good for you than to beat yourself over the head with something that's a drag.

- some teachers give transmission and that can sometimes help a lot. HL/MG for example, even in many of his audio talks (some free online).

 

That place is worth noting. It's good sign and a doorway that gets much much more interesting over time. I would say that since that shows up for you that you are not devoid of aptitude and perhaps there's some heaviness (at whatever level of being) that needs to clear up one way or another and then it could be more satisfying for you. Even if you leave meditation for some extended time, worth a note that it could be nice to try at some later phase.

 

good luck

Trunk

 

I try to notice that space, but nothing much happens. Soon I get distracted and thoughts occupy the mind. Again, the empty space...and again, thoughts. And so forth. It's not only boring but exhausting. So all I know is that emptiness isn't interesting, it's dull and boring, contrary to what many say (that emptiness is bliss and all that)

[Inedible]

Whenever I meditate, I fall asleep due to the sheer boredom and futility of it all.

 

Too much relaxation, not enough concentration. Don't lay down and don't meditate where you sleep.

 

Boredom, because it isn't interesting.

 

It helps to pick an object you enjoy, so that you will not have as much resistance in returning to it over and over.

 

Futility, because nothing comes out of it, no improvement in myself, no control, no visions, no new ideas, nothing. It's simply stagnation.

 

If that's what you are trying to accomplish you might want to try doing that instead of meditating.

 

Put simply, there's no difference between pre and post meditation. My meditation revolves around observing myself and when I do,

 

There are lots of different ways to meditate. I am more familiar with Buddhist than Taoist. If I knew you were Buddhist I'd tell you to watch yourself this way outside of meditation and during meditation work toward jhana by focussing on breath sensations at the tip of your nose. Your focus is too wide. If you tend toward headache, focus on your breath at your stomach as the stomach moves in and out. It is a larger area than the tip of your nose so it will take longer.

 

I simply find the same thoughts and desires coming and going. It's a monotonous process that bores me to death.

 

Yes, this is normal. Most people just don't see it.

 

If there are no thoughts, there's an empty space and that's equally boring.

 

The mind relies on movement. Holding still meets with resistance whether it is the body, the mind, or both.

 

I am not sure what to do. Do I assume meditation isn't my thing and do something else?

 

Why did you start meditating to begin with? Go back to that. You must have had some kind of purpose in mind and holding your purpose in mind will help pick a direction to go in from here.

[Encephalon]

You might want to evaluate your reasons for meditating in the first place. The fact that the benefits have been known to millions for thousands of years does not necessarily mean that it's right for you at this time. The long list of things it is not doing for you may be a sign that you are placing too many specific expectations on the process, which could leave you wide open to disappointment and frustration when your desired results do not come to fruition.

 

Picking a more physically-based practice is probably the best advice given in here. Using your mind to change your mind calls for super-human feats of concentration and discipline. Using your body to change your mind is the advice given by yogis and tai chi adepts for thousands of years because it works. If your spirit is still too restless to find the patience with either of these modalities, then take the rest of 2009 and work out three days a week. Seek out the best strength training regimen you can (I'm a trainer - I can offer some advice in that area). Strength is the father of all other fitness criteria, but most importantly, when you are strong, your body can experience a deeply relaxed state, and soon your mind will too.

 

Good luck.

[Trunk]

I try to notice that space, ... So all I know is that emptiness isn't interesting, it's dull and boring, contrary to what many say

I'm just saying: you've got half of something there. Who knows what/when/where it might take to get the other half, but the half you've got says you have potential to get some "interesting activity" from meditation.. maybe some day.

Edited July 15, 2009 by Trunk

[hagar]

Whenever I meditate, I fall asleep due to the sheer boredom and futility of it all. Boredom, because it isn't interesting. Futility, because nothing comes out of it, no improvement in myself, no control, no visions, no new ideas, nothing. It's simply stagnation.

 

Put simply, there's no difference between pre and post meditation. My meditation revolves around observing myself and when I do, I simply find the same thoughts and desires coming and going. It's a monotonous process that bores me to death. If there are no thoughts, there's an empty space and that's equally boring.

 

I am not sure what to do. Do I assume meditation isn't my thing and do something else?

 

To paraphrase; Maybe you are not bored enough.

 

h

[Aetherous]

The purpose of meditation is to be aware of the stagnancy/boredom, so that you have the opportunity to overcome it...so guess what, it's working. You should stick with it and give it all of your effort to stay awake during it. THEN hopefully it truly bores you to death! If not, then you might as well not even meditate.

[doc benway]

Whenever I meditate, I fall asleep due to the sheer boredom and futility of it all. Boredom, because it isn't interesting. Futility, because nothing comes out of it, no improvement in myself, no control, no visions, no new ideas, nothing. It's simply stagnation.

 

Put simply, there's no difference between pre and post meditation. My meditation revolves around observing myself and when I do, I simply find the same thoughts and desires coming and going. It's a monotonous process that bores me to death. If there are no thoughts, there's an empty space and that's equally boring.

 

I am not sure what to do. Do I assume meditation isn't my thing and do something else?

I don't know if this will help at all but I know exactly what you mean.

 

The thing about meditation is that nothing is supposed to happen, it's not supposed to be interesting, nothing is supposed to come out of it, you will not be improved necessarily. That is not the point. Futility really is irrelevant because it is not a goal oriented activity (well, that's not completely true as Daoist techniques for example have specific goals and benchmarks but the basic concept of meditation is not about achieving anything in particular).

 

You will read all sorts of descriptions of experiences and effects of meditation - I think that can be counterproductive as it leads to expectations that do not help the process and may not be realistic. Comparing notes with other meditators is a sure way of becoming frustrated with your progress. My teacher strongly discourages us from comparing notes in the beginning. When you reach a certain point in your cultivation, that's no longer a problem but it is in the beginning.

 

Is life stagnation? Is it necessary to be doing anything more than simply living at all times?

What is more important than a deep breath of air or sitting quietly in a comfortable position?

Why do we feel that these simple things are not enough?

 

The mind's job is to find us food, shelter, a mate, and so on... Now that technology has made it so that we can get all that done with little or no effort, the mind has lots of time to occupy itself. It's not used to quiet time. It's not comfortable unless its busy and occupied trying to keep us safe and full and so on. That is why we, as a species, has been so "successful" and its also why we are so fucked up psychologically and socially.

 

The mind will do its damnedest to win the battle between quiet and activity and it almost always wins. That is why most people give up on meditation relatively quickly. It does not want to be idle. Nevertheless, most people who practice meditation for a certain period of time feel that there is benefit at some level. Medical and psychological research shows positive effects. Look at animals - they are active when they need to be. When there is nothing needed, they are perfectly content doing nothing - either sleeping, sitting quietly, or whatever. Why is it so hard for us to be like that?

 

Meditation is not for everyone and it may be that you are not in a place where it is currently possible or beneficial. If you would like to try it in earnest, I would recommend a teacher - I don't think the specific discipline matters as much as a qualified teacher. It makes an enormous difference, in my experience.

Edited July 15, 2009 by xuesheng

[Guest sykkelpump]

I don't know if this will help at all but I know exactly what you mean.

 

The thing about meditation is that nothing is supposed to happen, it's not supposed to be interesting, nothing is supposed to come out of it, you will not be improved necessarily. That is not the point. Futility really is irrelevant because it is not a goal oriented activity (well, that's not completely true as Daoist techniques for example have specific goals and benchmarks but the basic concept of meditation is not about achieving anything in particular).

 

You will read all sorts of descriptions of experiences and effects of meditation - I think that can be counterproductive as it leads to expectations that do not help the process and may not be realistic. Comparing notes with other meditators is a sure way of becoming frustrated with your progress. My teacher strongly discourages us from comparing notes in the beginning. When you reach a certain point in your cultivation, that's no longer a problem but it is in the beginning.

 

Is life stagnation? Is it necessary to be doing anything more than simply living at all times?

What is more important than a deep breath of air or sitting quietly in a comfortable position?

Why do we feel that these simple things are not enough?

 

The mind's job is to find us food, shelter, a mate, and so on... Now that technology has made it so that we can get all that done with little or no effort, the mind has lots of time to occupy itself. It's not used to quiet time. It's not comfortable unless its busy and occupied trying to keep us safe and full and so on. That is why we, as a species, has been so "successful" and its also why we are so fucked up psychologically and socially.

 

The mind will do its damnedest to win the battle between quiet and activity and it almost always wins. That is why most people give up on meditation relatively quickly. It does not want to be idle. Nevertheless, most people who practice meditation for a certain period of time feel that there is benefit at some level. Medical and psychological research shows positive effects. Look at animals - they are active when they need to be. When there is nothing needed, they are perfectly content doing nothing - either sleeping, sitting quietly, or whatever. Why is it so hard for us to be like that?

 

Meditation is not for everyone and it may be that you are not in a place where it is currently possible or beneficial. If you would like to try it in earnest, I would recommend a teacher - I don't think the specific discipline matters as much as a qualified teacher. It makes an enormous difference, in my experience.

 

 

This is completely bullshit,when you meditate correctly your body will fill whith energy.usually from the feet to the head in the beginning.you will feel it stronger and stronger the more empty the mind gets.And many things will happen.people who say otherwise dont know how to metitate.Maybe you should change teacher and look at some of bodris material.I learned from there.I would recommand the white skeleton meditation and anapanasati.

[-O-]

..

Edited August 25, 2009 by -O-

[Li TaoRen]

Alpha... Everyone has different experiences in meditation. Some have powerful so-called visions and some do not. If you are looking to experience benefits in your daily life consistancy is key. Plain and simple one pointed focus for a beginner whether it is breath or an internal object. There are hindrances or obstacles to meditation including boredom and lack of faith or trust in the practice. Boredom will pass, you can have trust by expecting nothing. Usually, if one falls asleep, it means you are too tired or the mind is 'weak' or overworked. Try some walking meditation before sitting, and if you are a beginner don't sit for more than 30 min. Keep ypur practice simple and consistant and you will see results. In the beginning you may just notice that your emotions are slightly buffered. Once you have a foundation you can undertake practices that involve some visualization; then you might 'feel' more sensations in meditation. It also works better if you play the role in your daily life; trying to be more calm, compassionate, patient and such. It all goes hand-in-hand. Cultivate a new attitude toward the practice, be consistant, patient and you will have results

[gendao]

When I was in my mid-20s, I tried some standing meditative "qigong," but could not tame my 1000 monkeys and quiet my mind. Period. So, I gave it up (for the time being).

 

In my late 20s, I tried some Falun Gong, and did (mostly) sitting meditation. I did better and could sit for a while, but it seemed more a physical exercise in endurance and perseverance than any metaphysical state with any tangible benefits.

 

In my early 30s, I tried some generic sitting meditation again. Just 10 minutes was very difficult at first (mainly just to quiet my mind that long), as was trying to physically hold a straight spine. But, I eventually worked up to about 20 minutes regularly...

 

In my mid-30s, I took a number of workshops and got more serious. 30 or 45 minute sessions were now doable. And recently, I've been meditating for 2 hrs/day (w/1 halftime break) for the past few days. Now, 20 minutes is nothing anymore. But, the "trick" is entering deeper and more timeless states... These states make it more pleasant, relaxing and allows the time to pass faster. Whereas if you just stay in your conscious "beta" mind, you will lose patience RAPIDLY and get excruciatingly bored FAST.

 

The bottomline is, unless it's relaxing and fun, or at least not an intolerable drag, you're probably not going to be able to do it for any long stretches. Kinda true for any leisure activity...

 

Anyhow, give yourself time, LOTS of time to make iterative progress. You can see from my own example that it took me nearly 10 years of trying it on & off to get to where meditation could become even somewhat enjoyable and doable for longer periods. Also, I think it helps when you're simply older and presumably less prone to ADD.

Edited July 15, 2009 by vortex

[mat black]

You will read all sorts of descriptions of experiences and effects of meditation - I think that can be counterproductive as it leads to expectations that do not help the process and may not be realistic. Comparing notes with other meditators is a sure way of becoming frustrated with your progress.

 

Is life stagnation? Is it necessary to be doing anything more than simply living at all times?

What is more important than a deep breath of air or sitting quietly in a comfortable position?

Why do we feel that these simple things are not enough?

 

The mind will do its damnedest to win the battle between quiet and activity and it almost always wins. That is why most people give up on meditation relatively quickly. It does not want to be idle.

 

Meditation is not for everyone and it may be that you are not in a place where it is currently possible or beneficial. If you would like to try it in earnest, I would recommend a teacher - I don't think the specific discipline matters as much as a qualified teacher. It makes an enormous difference, in my experience.

I smiled the whole time reading this post. I totaly agree with Steve's advice.

 

Don't look to compare any experience that others have had. Comparrisons and expectations (Ive been guilty of it myself) are at the very least a great hinderance which can simply entrench mental and egoic attatchments and desires. Even if wonderful feelings arise, blissful states etc, we should not get carried away by them. Simply be aware of them that's all.

 

Like Steve said, the mind seems habituated for activity of any sort so at the moment it senses boredom, it's had enough. But when we are simply aware of boredom itself, the boredom can usually disappear.

 

"simply living at all times".........being aware of the breath flowing through us, finding the source of the breath itself. It is very subtle. This can lead to something which beyond both exictement/interest and boredom.

 

Also, as Steve said, good teacher may make all the difference.

Edited July 15, 2009 by mat black

[mat black]

This is completely bullshit,when you meditate correctly your body will fill whith energy.usually from the feet to the head in the beginning.you will feel it stronger and stronger the more empty the mind gets.And many things will happen.people who say otherwise dont know how to metitate.

Some decorum in languge would be appreciated.

It's not that people who say otherwise don't know how to meditate. It's more that people who have some sense of responsibility don't laways mention the things that you described publicly because they are aware that doing so may arouse feelings of expectations in others. This can actually be the greatest hinderence to medtiation.

The potential physiological and sense responses can vary greatly from person to person. For you there was the feelings that you described, for another person, there may have been none at all. It is an individual thing.

 

All expectations for sensation of any sort should be forgoten.

[Siliconvalley1]

http://www.messagefrommasters.com/Life_of_...Experiences.htm

[mat black]

http://www.messagefrommasters.com/Life_of_...Experiences.htm

Great reference Vivek

 

Here's an extract:

Question : When I reach the thoughtless stage in my sadhana I enjoy a certain pleasure, but sometimes I also experience a vague fear which I cannot properly describe.

Ramana Maharshi : You may experience anything, but you should never rest content with that. Whether you feel pleasure or fear, ask yourself who feels the pleasure or the fear and so carry on the sadhana until pleasure and fear are both transcended, till all duality ceases and till the reality alone remains.

 

There is nothing wrong in such things happening or being experienced, but you must never stop at that. For instance, you must never rest content with the pleasure of laya (temporary abeyance of the mind) experienced when thought is quelled, you must press on until all duality ceases.

Edited July 16, 2009 by mat black

[alfa]

Thanks for all your replies.

 

I feel that I am bored, because most of the time I am not physically active. I am either reading books or listening to music. Maybe, that's why meditation is also boring -- it's due to lack of physical activity.

 

What I need is something physical, like yoga or i ching, but I want to do it by myself without a teacher (I can't go out, you see).

[sheng zhen]

Whenever I meditate, I fall asleep due to the sheer boredom and futility of it all. Boredom, because it isn't interesting. Futility, because nothing comes out of it, no improvement in myself, no control, no visions, no new ideas, nothing. It's simply stagnation.

 

Put simply, there's no difference between pre and post meditation. My meditation revolves around observing myself and when I do, I simply find the same thoughts and desires coming and going. It's a monotonous process that bores me to death. If there are no thoughts, there's an empty space and that's equally boring.

 

I am not sure what to do. Do I assume meditation isn't my thing and do something else?

If you are bored of meditation you simply havent experienced it yet. It would be like saying diving is boring while all you have done is dipped you big toe in the water.

 

I like Hagars quote: maybe you arent bored enough! Dont give up. Keep doing it everyday and eventually you will get it. We will allways have periods of stagnation. It is inevitable. But as long as you dont give up, you will also have breakthroughs!

 

Anyways, it is allways good to have a teacher to help you along the way and kick you in the ass when it is needed

[Sunya]

i find the 5 Tibetans to be great beginning yoga. good exercise for energy, pre meditation,

 

http://www.mkprojects.com/pf_TibetanRites.htm

[Gerard]

Try Vipassana but not Goenka system as they only sit. The others walk-sit-walk-sit. And the walking becomes a real physical test (you'll find out if you decide to give it a go).

 

Watch this vid to get a good taste of Buddha's meditation system:

 

 

However the steps as performed by the monk are too fast and should be broken down into smaller parts that are progressively smaller the longer you are in your first retreat course. Anyway our friend is just giving us a general description of the walking component of Vipassana meditation.

Edited July 16, 2009 by durkhrod chogori

[Pietro]

Thanks for all your replies.

 

I feel that I am bored, because most of the time I am not physically active. I am either reading books or listening to music. Maybe, that's why meditation is also boring -- it's due to lack of physical activity.

 

What I need is something physical, like yoga or i ching, but I want to do it by myself without a teacher (I can't go out, you see).

 

How do you make the i ching something physical?

Do you throw the coins, and then run to catch them before the touch the ground ;-)

 

It seem to me that you already received many good advices. So I will not add much.

 

A couple of ideas:

do you find yourself being bored even when your life is not so ok? Because if your life is going shit (pardon Mat, merde ), it is easier to feel the blockages. When things are going well, the blockages are often deep inside. The fun part are not the blockages, but when you release them... at least in the kind of meditation we do.

 

I would pay a lot of attention to the physical posture. Often if the physical posture is not good, you can detach from your body, and then simply not be aware of what is going on.

 

You say that you get bored. How long can you keep your attention focused? You probably will notice that you cannot keep it for long stratches of time. Interest comes when you are trying to do something, and although you are failing, you feel you are making progress.

You could count the breaths, and when you reach 10 start again, or once you get distracted start again.

 

If you are honest, you will notice that it is hard even to reach 10 one time.

 

If you do reach ten, try another exercise: count up to 5 breaths, than 6, then 7, then 8, then 9, then 10, and then start again. If you get distracted you will mess up, and then it will be harder to lie to yourself.

 

"If all the time you sit you simply bring back your attention to the here and now, your time sitting was very well spent" (Some swiss christian saint, I think, although it has been repeated over and over)