Meditation is boring and futile

[Sunya]

^ good stuff

 

Alfa, everyone has given you great advice. but I can relate a lot to what you said because i've had similar issues... and honestly i've meditated for a long time so it doesn't get easier. i've meditated on and off for over 3 years.. and I still get sleepy/bored. so lately i've been wondering whats wrong with me? and I realized that I need to do more physical movement, so i've implemented physical yoga into my daily routine (see the link posted above) and thats been helping a lot. i've also lately realized through consulting with Chinese Medicine that my fatigue is caused by a Spleen Qi deficiency so I'm healing that with traditional chinese herbs. this has been a big factor in not having enough energy to meditate properly. I'm not saying you have the same thing.. but definitely get some exercise. Yoga or Tai Chi will really help you out... and if you do happen to have a traditional chinese medicine (TCM) doctor near by.. have him give you a look, maybe he can give you some acupuncture or herbs to help circulate energy better.

 

i've learned that the body is very very important as the mind and body are interdependent, interconnected, one affects the other.. so not taking care of the body with activity/proper diety will affect the mind. no doubt.

[Guest sykkelpump]

^ good stuff

 

Alfa, everyone has given you great advice. but I can relate a lot to what you said because i've had similar issues... and honestly i've meditated for a long time so it doesn't get easier. i've meditated on and off for over 3 years.. and I still get sleepy/bored. so lately i've been wondering whats wrong with me? and I realized that I need to do more physical movement, so i've implemented physical yoga into my daily routine (see the link posted above) and thats been helping a lot. i've also lately realized through consulting with Chinese Medicine that my fatigue is caused by a Spleen Qi deficiency so I'm healing that with traditional chinese herbs. this has been a big factor in not having enough energy to meditate properly. I'm not saying you have the same thing.. but definitely get some exercise. Yoga or Tai Chi will really help you out... and if you do happen to have a traditional chinese medicine (TCM) doctor near by.. have him give you a look, maybe he can give you some acupuncture or herbs to help circulate energy better.

 

i've learned that the body is very very important as the mind and body are interdependent, interconnected, one affects the other.. so not taking care of the body with activity/proper diety will affect the mind. no doubt.

 

Didnt you just recently in another post tell him that you could find alfa a good teacher.And then you write here that you havent succeded in meditation yourself? lol

You should get help finding another teacher yourself.

You also tell him to not trust any advice here and then you write this post,are you conufused.Maybe the chinese herbs?

[z00se]

Didnt you just recently in another post tell him that you could find alfa a good teacher.And then you write here that you havent succeded in meditation yourself? lol

You should get help finding another teacher yourself.

I feel a teacher is unimportant. You can just test and try different ideas and things yourself. If you get good results you can continue, if it's detrimental then you stop and go on with something else. This way by making some mistakes you learn more about your body and have a wider range of knowledge to help you on the path. Although your goals may take longer to reach, your experience is wider and perhaps it's even useful to be able to offer others advice. Besides theres not only 1 way - the teachers way, theres an unlimited number of methods.

[Sunya]

Didnt you just recently in another post tell him that you could find alfa a good teacher.And then you write here that you havent succeded in meditation yourself? lol

You should get help finding another teacher yourself.

You also tell him to not trust any advice here and then you write this post,are you conufused.Maybe the chinese herbs?

 

you misunderstand me. stop judging my posts.

let go of your attachment to Bodri as this all started when I pointed out he has no clue about what emptiness means.

Edited July 17, 2009 by mikaelz

[z00se]

I feel that I am bored, because most of the time I am not physically active. I am either reading books or listening to music. Maybe, that's why meditation is also boring -- it's ude to lack of physical activity.

 

Reading books, learning about meditation or reading this website when you are trying to get meditation results are counter productive. Rest, don't read and save your energy. When you read it stimulates your thoughts. If you want to progress, first find out what to do, then practice it for at least 3-4 weeks without reading any more about it. If you try to read you will always be comparing your experiences with what you have read about and it won't work. It's your experiences your after and that matter, you will learn all the feelings and experiences for yourself. You can't have your own experiences if you are waiting for the ones you've read about to appear.

 

Gentle exercise like walking and stretching is good but if you go to the gym it will tense you up and send u backwards too. Every time u get the urge to do something just take a big breath and chill. Sometimes u need to take this breath every 5 seconds, shout out and scream to make yourself feel better and release the fustration, then microcosmic your energy to get it flowing again so you relax and are ok with it. I think the fustration comes from a buildup of energy but no free path for it to flow around, so if your microcosmic is free and wide enough for the energy you have in your body you can stay relaxed =]

[doc benway]

This is completely bullshit,when you meditate correctly your body will fill whith energy.usually from the feet to the head in the beginning.you will feel it stronger and stronger the more empty the mind gets.And many things will happen.people who say otherwise dont know how to metitate.Maybe you should change teacher and look at some of bodris material.I learned from there.I would recommand the white skeleton meditation and anapanasati.

Thanks for your constructive comments sykkelpump.

 

I've been through those things you describe - the feelings, the changes, the awareness of energy, and many others experiences, some very intense and some of which are beyond my ability to put into words.

All of that remains in the realm of the known. It's all stuff of the mind. It's pleasant and entertaining and even very useful but it's still all transient and impermanent experience. Meditation goes beyond attachment to such experience. If you have studied Bodri and Zen, I don't need to explain that to you.

 

I currently practice Daoist meditation of the 崑崙仙蹤 sect as my primary method of cultivation

I'm very happy with my teacher but thank you for your concern.

I've practiced the white skeleton and I regularly practice Anapanasati.

I often have my taiji students use that as a way to help them understand the frame of mind to bring to form practice.

 

Be well

[gendao]

I currently practice Daoist meditation of the 崑崙仙蹤 sect as my primary method of cultivation

What exactly is that and how does it differ from Max's Kunlun?

[doc benway]

What exactly is that and how does it differ from Max's Kunlun?

____________

Edited May 9, 2014 by steve

[Aetherous]

From what I've read, I'm not convinced his methods come solely from Kun Lun.

 

Not to hijack the discussion, but that's because they don't at all. He used the name Kunlun because of its mythical aspects as being the "mountain of the immortals" which coincides with the human body...not the physical mountains.

[dragonfire]

I recommend you continue with meditation and continue to pray for

understanding of the truth. Someone is listening to your prayers.

Don't give up. Someday if you continue to search, you will

find the answers. You have to really want to know the truth.

 

It may not come next day or next year, but maybe many years down

the road. Everything has its course.

[Gerard]

i've also lately realized through consulting with Chinese Medicine that my fatigue is caused by a Spleen Qi deficiency so I'm healing that with traditional chinese herbs.

 

Yes, and the way westerners screw up their spleens is through this freaking BS diet we have been subjected to in our moronic society. Read this please:

 

http://www.comoxvalleyacupuncture.com/recommend.html

 

 

It makes me sad seeing how humans having the power to be more than Gods behave like worms. Always causing suffering to other humans, animals, trees, etc. and Earth itself.

 

 

I wish you a good and prompt recovery.

[de_paradise]

Some things that havent been mentioned:

 

1.Use an egg timer, (I downloaded a timer for windows) and time meditations.

2.Do a certain amount of one meditation, then switch. Like some mantra for 15 minutes, then go to microcosmic orbit, then stillness.

3. Detoxing, like herbal detox or fasting is another way to cleanse ones body and hasten spiritual progress.

4. Yoga, or try Scott Sonnon's flow-fit excercises DVD. My roommate got some energetic results from that, and she's not into any of this spiritual stuff. It was recommended by Bodri and in Trunk's site, so I gave it a try. Killer workout, 15 minutes a day.

5. Deep trance hypnosis. I used a mp3 called "ultra-depth relaxation" for ONE YEAR every day. Its 45 minutes long and zonks you out so far down you dont know what happened until the end when he's counting you up. I mean to make a seperate post on this, because its THAT stupendous.

 

 

I'd add: drowsiness is not counterproductive to meditation if one doesnt nod off. It's the Zen people who like to stay relatively alert, but the Yogi's are well known to go into very deep sleep-like states. Personally I go for the latter, sleeplike state, and get more energetic phenomena at that near-dream image state.

[Trevcaru]

This is how i see it, maybe this will help.

 

The problem is the 'doing something'. The animals mind has a quality of being empty when they 'arent doing something'. We as humans, on the other hand, have created a movement in the psychological area... but it is a gap that can not be filled. There is no achieving psychologically; the achieving is an illusion that the mind has created, not realizing that it is a gap that can not be filled.

 

On the outward... we can fill this gap. We achieve feats outwardly such as building a house, or obtaining food, but inwardly does this movement have any meaning? There is no becoming psychologically. Meditation (can be) the realization of this... it does not matter, because it is observing; it is not achieving.

 

So meditation comes into being when it is observing this desire. And it may be that it is beyond observing that movement inwardly (that strife, conflict) and it is observing the ten thousand things (like the animals state[for lack of better word]).

 

Yes, thought has its place; even in the animal world. But they have not brought strife inwardly... in other animals it remains on the outward. Achieving inwardly is meaningless. Meditation is like the peels of an onion falling away. Achieving something inwardly, which is what you are trying to do, is conflict and the utter definition of division (in the sense of human conflict).

 

So we must ask ourselves: Are we trying to become kung fu masters, or gurus, or whatever it is that we aspire to become in order to escape what we are? Or is it that we see all this disorder and out of the awareness of that disorder something else is born, which here, we are calling meditation. Animals (besides the human ones) do not aspire inwardly... they are empty of this movement. They have not brought achieving, strife, inwardly. Inwardly it has only created this division, conflict.

Edited July 18, 2009 by Trevcaru

[Vajrasattva]

Whenever I meditate, I fall asleep due to the sheer boredom and futility of it all. Boredom, because it isn't interesting. Futility, because nothing comes out of it, no improvement in myself, no control, no visions, no new ideas, nothing. It's simply stagnation.

 

Put simply, there's no difference between pre and post meditation. My meditation revolves around observing myself and when I do, I simply find the same thoughts and desires coming and going. It's a monotonous process that bores me to death. If there are no thoughts, there's an empty space and that's equally boring.

 

I am not sure what to do. Do I assume meditation isn't my thing and do something else?

 

 

You need to build some Juice 1st.

[Guest winpro07]

..

Edited July 18, 2009 by winpro07

[phore]

Whenever I meditate, I fall asleep due to the sheer boredom and futility of it all. Boredom, because it isn't interesting. Futility, because nothing comes out of it, no improvement in myself, no control, no visions, no new ideas, nothing. It's simply stagnation.

 

Put simply, there's no difference between pre and post meditation. My meditation revolves around observing myself and when I do, I simply find the same thoughts and desires coming and going. It's a monotonous process that bores me to death. If there are no thoughts, there's an empty space and that's equally boring.

 

I am not sure what to do. Do I assume meditation isn't my thing and do something else?

 

your in your mind too much.

you say you observe yourself, but its all in your head, go into the body, and the emotions.

play with sensations

use your imagination.

[-O-]

..

Edited August 25, 2009 by -O-

[kadak]

Whenever I meditate, I fall asleep due to the sheer boredom and futility of it all. Boredom, because it isn't interesting. Futility, because nothing comes out of it, no improvement in myself, no control, no visions, no new ideas, nothing. It's simply stagnation.

 

Put simply, there's no difference between pre and post meditation. My meditation revolves around observing myself and when I do, I simply find the same thoughts and desires coming and going. It's a monotonous process that bores me to death. If there are no thoughts, there's an empty space and that's equally boring.

 

I am not sure what to do. Do I assume meditation isn't my thing and do something else?

 

That's because you are lacking dynamism. Rigpa or the nature of mind has 2 aspects, purity/emptiness and clarity/dynamism. Dynamism comes when we clean the central channel which is obstructed by our karmas. These karmas are dynamism in essence, and when they are liberated, the energy is liberated.

That's why, in buddhism, there are practices before abiding in the nature of mind : preliminaries, generation stage, and completion stage practices like tummo which is designed to burn karma. Then you can begin with true meditation.

[Mal]

[Birch]

I read Trunk said: "For some it never really gets fun" and he (I think) was referring to meditation.

 

I love everything everyone has said so far about it.

 

I will add mine;-) For me, meditation is not really fun - hence my KAP incursions;-) which some will argue are still stricto senso meditation - ok, yes it is KAP friends;-)

 

BUT I will add that it's ALL damn damn useful.

 

You get inside yourself intentionally (hopefully you are NOT doing this for anyone else!) and once you are there, well, you find out all kinds of fun (and not so fun) things;-)

 

So, is it worth doing? Having done some, I say yes! Otherwise, I don't know. For someone unsure about starting it I would say maybe no.

[JustARandomPanda]

Have enjoyed this thread. Thanks everyone.

Edited July 21, 2009 by SereneBlue

[Magitek]

http://www.messagefrommasters.com/Life_of_...Experiences.htm

 

U. G. K. spent time around the Maharishi. U. G. Asked him why he was recommeding the things he did when his (supposed) enlightenment had nothing to do with these techniques. Maharishi answered "if it works it works. if it doesn't it doesn't".

 

There you all go, I saved you the time of reading that interview!

 

Also check out the Zen teachings on Rinzai, very good book, he never meditated, nor worshipped any gods.

Edited July 21, 2009 by Magitek

[ZenStatic]

Also check out the Zen teachings on Rinzai, very good book, he never meditated, nor worshipped any gods.

 

Well, I guess its a good thing that Buddhism doesn't worship any gods huh? And if you think Rinzai never meditated, I feel really bad for your research skills. Please, if you don't actually know about something, don't try to sound like an authority on it.

[Magitek]

Well, I guess its a good thing that Buddhism doesn't worship any gods huh? And if you think Rinzai never meditated, I feel really bad for your research skills. Please, if you don't actually know about something, don't try to sound like an authority on it.

 

 

Wasn't talking about Buddhism, I'm not a Buddhist scholar.

 

I just read the Zen Teachings of Rinzai and thought it was a neat book.

 

Why don't you give me some passages or whatever to contradict me? I'm all ears. Really, I want to know.

 

I was just butting in to say that meditation may not help this guy nor may be right for him. But if he wants to believe me, or someone else, so be it. We just talk. I never read that many books because I was usually too busy practicing (my ass off), I would have done ANYTHING, thank god thats over.