How to handle emptiness?

[alfa]

Hi,

 

I've mentioned in my previous thread on meditation that I am left with emptiness whenever I meditate. The thing is, I can keep thoughts in abeyance and remain in an empty state for quite a while. What I want to know is, do I simply observe the emptiness and hope for something to happen? Moreover, if I am observing emptiness, is there not a duality between observer and observed?

 

So what does one do with this empty state, because people say only this state shall open the door to the unknown, to the mysterious? But in my case, I just wait in an empty state and nothing happens. So I get bored.

 

Alfa

[Aetherous]

It's not a real empty state...just some more mind stuff. If it were truly emptiness, how could you become bored?

[Applecart]

enjoy the emptiness. Find great peace in it. Just be in that place. You will slow down your mind and it will stop, your body will fuse with the universe. Afterward you should feel elated.

 

I think scotty is correct, you haven't reached emptiness yet.

[awake]

Just be aware of it.

 

This is the "faith" part of spirituality.

 

Try turning back, just try. You're on a path that won't let go of you.

 

Better embrace it. Just watch. Those moments of transformation come when we are least distracted by concepts, including expecting to be enlightened.

[Inedible]

The first thing you have to do if you want to have a meaningful discussion about Emptiness is to establish which Emptiness you are going to discuss.

[Applecart]

the really really empty one

[Inedible]

the really really empty one

 

You may not think so, but I actually had a purpose in writing.

[alfa]

The first thing you have to do if you want to have a meaningful discussion about Emptiness is to establish which Emptiness you are going to discuss.

 

When there are no thoughts, there's an empty space. This is what I experience and I am not able to go beyond it. It doesn't matter if it's the false emptiness or real emptiness, point is, there's a space without thoughts. Where do I go from there?

[Inedible]

Where do you want to go?

[awake]

I presume into more thoughts or feelings or actions.

 

 

This is just his mind saying "don't leave me"

 

Just sit in it.. Be in that emptiness for a while.

 

Yo've been thinking all your life, where has it gotten you? How good do you feel?

 

Give this a shot. All will come.

Edited July 16, 2009 by awake

[nashenas]

let me share an experience.

 

I am quite new to all of this but I snap things up here and there and let my intuition guide.

 

this is what happened to me.

 

I was trying to sleep a few days ago and had read some things about retention in the forum, so I tried it out without any expectations I just wanted to see where this might lead.

It started with me thinking toughts I saw mental pictures of friends family sexuall pictures etc all I did was observing them I did not try to change tought or even fight them, and some of the toughts was quite uncomfortable i skipped trough every tought like when you flipp trough music on an ipod touch, there was at first about 10 toughts a minute, after somewhile 100, and all of a sudden I realised that I was in a deep meditaional state, I wasent thinking I was only observing my toughts. when I realised this there was about 1000 toughts a minute at least it feelt that way, and I saw me being a fox in the forest with a fox lady and a lot of stuff like that and after some while I was almost asleep but aware of it, observing my mind.

 

Suddenly there was nothing left to see, from nowhere it feelt like a lightning bolt entered my body and my heart center was in pure bliss. at this moment I started to hear my fathers voice "What is happening to you? what is wrong" etc etc. and it got a little bit scary! I was paralyzed at that exact moment and couldent open my eyez or anything so I calmed down and all of a sudden I woke up. I feelt light, very light in joy. it had been 4 hours but I woke up like I had been sleeping for 12 hours. and one thing I saw in this state was unexplainable it was more a feeling than a tought but still a tought. It lasted for a few seconds before the lighting struck me, but the feeling was one of "how ridiculus life is, all the pain and suffering was ridiculus and to be laughed at" something like that but in a good way

 

so I dont know what I was doing to be honest, and Im quite new to this and just grounded 4 days ago, but one thing I learned was to follow your intuituion and it will guide you right, dont have any expectations but follow your intution it knows alot more than both of us. have the intention that something will happen but you do not know what, do not force it let it come to you.

 

and one thing is that when you read this, even then do not have any expectation what happened to me was subjective, it might not be the same for you?

 

and If anyone knows what I did please let me know, because I will do it again and again

 

one more thing before sleeping my third eye was very active

 

! Bless you bye bye

[Guest sykkelpump]

When there are no thoughts, there's an empty space. This is what I experience and I am not able to go beyond it. It doesn't matter if it's the false emptiness or real emptiness, point is, there's a space without thoughts. Where do I go from there?

 

 

about how long between thoughts?

[Spirit Ape]

There is no mind no self NOTHING in emptiness, and if you reach it you simply dont exist here!!!

[Sunya]

you're all using 'emptiness' as a state of 'nothingness' or 'no-thought', this is not what Buddhist emptiness means. maybe they shoulda picked a different word :> Emptiness is the realization that everything is interconnected and lacks Self quality.

 

Alfa, you reek of confusion. where do you live? I can help you find a teacher... they are so important really, to set you straight. no offense to anyone here, but how can you trust the advice you receive here from complete strangers on something so important? theres no doubt that members here have some realization, but its so much better to find a genuine teacher you can trust that can give you practical advice. a real teacher is clairvoyant and gives you advice that is best for you and through his own experience really knows what he is talking about. nobody here really has those qualities.

[Guest sykkelpump]

you're all using 'emptiness' as a state of 'nothingness' or 'no-thought', this is not what Buddhist emptiness means. maybe they shoulda picked a different word :> Emptiness is the realization that everything is interconnected and lacks Self quality.

 

Alfa, you reek of confusion. where do you live? I can help you find a teacher... they are so important really, to set you straight. no offense to anyone here, but how can you trust the advice you receive here from complete strangers on something so important? theres no doubt that members here have some realization, but its so much better to find a genuine teacher you can trust that can give you practical advice. a real teacher is clairvoyant and gives you advice that is best for you and through his own experience really knows what he is talking about. nobody here really has those qualities.

 

 

but he should trust you finding a teacher for him

[Sunya]

but he should trust you finding a teacher for him

 

yes thats really all I can do, point him in the right direction. he should of course investigate teachers for himself and find one he has a connection with.. i would only find centers in his area and send him a list to investigate. i'm not going to say, his name is XXX he lives at YYY go there at 5pm and you will become enlightened it's really all up to Alfa. i'll only send him a list of teachers in his area.

Edited July 17, 2009 by mikaelz

[Sloppy Zhang]

let me share an experience.

 

I am quite new to all of this but I snap things up here and there and let my intuition guide.

 

this is what happened to me.

 

I was trying to sleep a few days ago and had read some things about retention in the forum, so I tried it out without any expectations I just wanted to see where this might lead.

It started with me thinking toughts I saw mental pictures of friends family sexuall pictures etc all I did was observing them I did not try to change tought or even fight them, and some of the toughts was quite uncomfortable i skipped trough every tought like when you flipp trough music on an ipod touch, there was at first about 10 toughts a minute, after somewhile 100, and all of a sudden I realised that I was in a deep meditaional state, I wasent thinking I was only observing my toughts. when I realised this there was about 1000 toughts a minute at least it feelt that way, and I saw me being a fox in the forest with a fox lady and a lot of stuff like that and after some while I was almost asleep but aware of it, observing my mind.

 

Suddenly there was nothing left to see, from nowhere it feelt like a lightning bolt entered my body and my heart center was in pure bliss. at this moment I started to hear my fathers voice "What is happening to you? what is wrong" etc etc. and it got a little bit scary! I was paralyzed at that exact moment and couldent open my eyez or anything so I calmed down and all of a sudden I woke up. I feelt light, very light in joy. it had been 4 hours but I woke up like I had been sleeping for 12 hours. and one thing I saw in this state was unexplainable it was more a feeling than a tought but still a tought. It lasted for a few seconds before the lighting struck me, but the feeling was one of "how ridiculus life is, all the pain and suffering was ridiculus and to be laughed at" something like that but in a good way

 

so I dont know what I was doing to be honest, and Im quite new to this and just grounded 4 days ago, but one thing I learned was to follow your intuituion and it will guide you right, dont have any expectations but follow your intution it knows alot more than both of us. have the intention that something will happen but you do not know what, do not force it let it come to you.

 

and one thing is that when you read this, even then do not have any expectation what happened to me was subjective, it might not be the same for you?

 

and If anyone knows what I did please let me know, because I will do it again and again

 

one more thing before sleeping my third eye was very active

 

! Bless you bye bye

 

Sounds like the hypnagogic stage of sleep (well it's really before sleep sets in), the wiki here

 

you're all using 'emptiness' as a state of 'nothingness' or 'no-thought', this is not what Buddhist emptiness means. maybe they shoulda picked a different word :> Emptiness is the realization that everything is interconnected and lacks Self quality.

 

Alfa, you reek of confusion. where do you live? I can help you find a teacher... they are so important really, to set you straight. no offense to anyone here, but how can you trust the advice you receive here from complete strangers on something so important? theres no doubt that members here have some realization, but its so much better to find a genuine teacher you can trust that can give you practical advice. a real teacher is clairvoyant and gives you advice that is best for you and through his own experience really knows what he is talking about. nobody here really has those qualities.

 

As for who can trust and what advice is for you..... generally you know it when you hear it. There are plenty of respectable people here on this forum who have some level of accomplishment (and there are others that have less accomplishment), and all of them give different advice. When I at least ask a question, even if it's someone who's opinion I respect, I know when their advice doesn't really fit my situation. But after a while I see some advice that really helps me and that I feel really connects with my situation. It's just a feeling you get and you'll know it when you see it. At least in my experience.....

 

As for what to do with emptiness: uh.... nothing?

[findley]

skipping through the chatter and replying to original post;

 

If you have genuinely ceased 'thinking', and abide in a quiet state: contemplate on, and dwell in, the 'mystery'

 

having stopped thinking, the mind may be as a 'polished mysterious mirror' (TTC,) or you may just have simply 'clamped down' on your mind, and by means of forceful concentration ceased to stop thinking-- this latter possibility is described as a state of 'oblivion' in the Secret of the Golden Flower, and leads to generally unpleasant states of being.

 

Reaching 'oblivion', however, was a crucial step forward for me in my cultivation of the light-- because you, afterall, have learned to stop thinking. The next step, if you are afterall in an 'oblivion' state, is to relax your grip on your mind and being, whilst mainting quietness. Contemplate the Dao-- that is, it is nothing, and yet is everything... there and yet it is not... it is as if the mystery is an ultimate 'nothingness' lying yin to, and just under, corporeal reality we otherwise know and live in.

 

Having stopped thinking, contemplate the Dao and abide in the mysterious 'nothingness'-- you will find yourself automatically cultivated a 'light' that will only grow more and more powerful as you live your days abiding in the tao.

 

-I hope that helps.

[Li TaoRen]

Hope for nothing, if you are hoping there is no emptiness. If you are bored, you are thinking. Do you have an object of focus or concentration? Expecting anything is a hindrance.

Hi,

 

I've mentioned in my previous thread on meditation that I am left with emptiness whenever I meditate. The thing is, I can keep thoughts in abeyance and remain in an empty state for quite a while. What I want to know is, do I simply observe the emptiness and hope for something to happen? Moreover, if I am observing emptiness, is there not a duality between observer and observed?

 

So what does one do with this empty state, because people say only this state shall open the door to the unknown, to the mysterious? But in my case, I just wait in an empty state and nothing happens. So I get bored.

 

Alfa

[hyok]

I think it's easy to get lost in all the words and names. When I first started meditation, I didn't know what "emptiness" really meant. First I thought it was "no thought". Then I hear it's not, then I hear it is, then I realized it wasn't. And even "bliss". Sometimes i think that word gets tossed around a little too frequently, cuz bliss to me was ejaculating with my HS gf after the 25th time, or somewhere around there. I haven't felt that while meditating even when people were telling me I was.

 

Meditating in emptiness (generally speaking) , to me, is a process that begins with relaxing the body and taming the mind so we can accomplish different things with different practices - i.e. harnessing chi, raising kundalini, training our consciousness to release itself from the confines of matter. While I don't know how everyone else goes through the process of it, i try to imagine myself as a microscopic reflective orb, or as Wang Li-Ping described stillness, a clear and calm body of water, so calm that it reflects. He added that sometimes in the stillness of mind, a ripple in the image of a friend might appear, and a few mins later the friend might unexpectedly call or visit. Things like this definitely happen and it's kinda cool. lol.

[Josh Young]

Wuji-taiji-yin/yang

emptiness/fullness

nothing/everything

 

Can emptiness be had without fullness?

[Vajrahridaya]

Don't try to handle the experience of calm abiding, of open emptiness. Let yourself dissolve and be handled by the experience. Soften, let go...

[Unconditioned]

Hi,

 

I've mentioned in my previous thread on meditation that I am left with emptiness whenever I meditate. The thing is, I can keep thoughts in abeyance and remain in an empty state for quite a while. What I want to know is, do I simply observe the emptiness and hope for something to happen? Moreover, if I am observing emptiness, is there not a duality between observer and observed?

 

So what does one do with this empty state, because people say only this state shall open the door to the unknown, to the mysterious? But in my case, I just wait in an empty state and nothing happens. So I get bored.

 

Alfa

 

It sounds like there's some expectation with what is to happen which is causing the bordem when that expectation isn't met.

 

If while sitting in meditation you're hoping for something, that has to be a thought, no? The expectation in your mind of "when is it going to happen? I don't feel anything?". It's a form of searching, an activity of the mind, which is hindering the effects of meditation.

 

Also, if you're trying to force your thoughts to stop that will only create more thoughts. "Argh! Here's another though, oh wait now I'm thinking about thinking! How do I stop this?? AH!!".

 

Thoughts slowing or stopping is a RESULT of meditation. Allow your thoughts to happen but observe them, be aware of thinking itself, not of the content of the thoughts. Or if you're practicing breath meditation then just observe yourself returning to the breath. If you practice doing that, then the thoughts will slow down on their own eventually. Let what ever happens happen - even if that is not having a mysterious feeling or zap of energy or whatever.

 

Just my humble advice, I'm sure there are others on the board with much more experience and could do a better job explaining meditation.

[exorcist_1699]

Incapable of nourishing something out of emptiness means the spiritual status you are in is still an unproductive one , or still in pseudo -emptiness. It is only after a real Mind "popping -up" from it , can you arise... . Yet there is always some kind of trap that entangles people for most of them think that by getting rid of their present mind , stripping off all its characteristics , they then can attain it, which unfortunately is not true.

 

People do not know that after having fallen from the pre-heavenly status, what is in charge now is not the original host, but a guest ; The position that should be presided by a real Mind is now occupied by a pseudo one, which is also the cause of our irreversible road towards death .As a Taoist poem already tells us well : " 無量刼來生死種, 痴人喚作本來人".

 

That means desperately grasping our mind or manipulating it can't recues us from the road towards the fatal end ; In Taoist solution , different from the Buddhist one , we have to rely on other force from the opposite direction to reverse the whole situation ....

Edited July 19, 2009 by exorcist_1699