The Chicken or the Egg?

[Marblehead]

Wow. It is true that the wise can sum up all the books and sutras into a single sentence.

 

That was awesome. .

 

Thanks. I didn't mean to appear to be wise. It was quite accidental, I assure you.

 

Be well!

 

 

 

That's merely your subjective opinion. Take care!

 

The debate is still about there being a beginning or not to manifestation. Vedanta thinks so, Buddha does not.

 

Yes, there was a beginning. But then it was nothing more than the end of the previous beginning. We go nowhere if we try to walk with one foot nailed to the floor except in circles.

 

Be well!

[Marblehead]

Okay. One more comment.

 

The universe does not exist because of some one or another belief system. The universe exists independant of all perceptions. Belief systems simply try to explain this existance.

 

Seems we still don't understand. Oh well.

 

Be well!

[dwai]

Sure it is... you consider the I AM as the ultimate subject of all. Pure being, Pure is-ness. Exactly what the Buddha taught to empty attachment to. It's the cause of recycling.

 

I already had come to understand the basis for Vedanta long ago and used to uphold that view with endless quotes against Buddhist view. Telling Buddhists that they misunderstood the Buddha and Nagarjuna. Then, I realized through study and spontaneous experience through intense contemplation and objectivity. I thought to myself... I don't care if I was raised a Hindu and my mothers a Hindu. I really want to know the truth of experience and what truly liberates. I really had to fight my deeply entrenched in blissful high up I AM level experience to even say that to myself, I had to fight on a subtle energetic level in my being. I still do... I still have Hindu and Vedantic dreams and meditation experiences that aim at reification of a divine source of existence, one that has no center but circumference everywhere. But, I understand through direct experience that I cannot deny the power of, plus an intellectual conscious comprehension that I cannot deny gained through actually studying the Buddhas teachings within context. This subtle supreme identity as Truth, even if it's incredible bliss and leads to yogic powers and divine visions, OBE's, interdimensional traveling, great kundalini rushes, it is not the right view. The Buddhist view is subtler. It's the first part of the 8 fold path, the first thing to establish, "Right View". You just won't allow yourself the objective space in your mind stream to really let go for a moment and see from an entirely different way of viewing the experience of clear light consciousness.

 

Buddha nature is infinite potentiality without inherent existence, it is not the same as Brahman.

 

Buddha Nature is the same as Brahman. Cut it any way you like...Brahman encompasses everything. Potentiality, existence, non-existence, substantial, insubstantial, all dualities rise from Brahman...all duality recedes into Brahman. Dependent Origination is a lower truth that is superimposed on Brahman.

 

I don't have much to say about your personal experiences since I don't have any way of either validating or invalidating them. Going by your tone and tenor I am inclined to conclude that they are mostly empty claims. I can only go by your posts here...and I don't see too much stuff beyond all the fluff you quote and re-hash over and over. Not a single thing you've posted seems to have come from your personal understanding or reasoning.

 

It is always "He said so, she said so or did not say so"...

 

I have no problems with Buddhism or with anyone practicing it. I just don't like seeing uneducated verdicts being passed about Advaita or "Hindu thought".

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Buddha Nature is the same as Brahman. Cut it any way you like...Brahman encompasses everything. Potentiality, existence, non-existence, substantial, insubstantial, all dualities rise from Brahman...all duality recedes into Brahman. Dependent Origination is a lower truth that is superimposed on Brahman.

 

I don't have much to say about your personal experiences since I don't have any way of either validating or invalidating them. Going by your tone and tenor I am inclined to conclude that they are mostly empty claims. I can only go by your posts here...and I don't see too much stuff beyond all the fluff you quote and re-hash over and over. Not a single thing you've posted seems to have come from your personal understanding or reasoning.

 

It is always "He said so, she said so or did not say so"...

 

I have no problems with Buddhism or with anyone practicing it. I just don't like seeing uneducated verdicts being passed about Advaita or "Hindu thought".

 

 

Okay! Okay! Words, words too much words! You arguers must

listen! 'Who first came, Chicken or Egg'? is koan meant for Western mind by laughing Chinese sage...meant to

turn brain into steaming podge of dim-sum! You no can answer, so you make fruitless argument, or you inhale dim-sum fume, mind to slip easily into pinpoint of enlightenment! EVERYBODY figure 'one hand clapping' koan--this one fool you! Ha ha!

 

 

For information on ordering my 9 DVD set, "Hey You! Chicken, or Egg?--Lazy Sage's Guide to Satori" please this link click:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLKn0ktuzgo&fmt=18

Edited July 31, 2009 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[Lucky7Strikes]

Sure, we worship and use tantric techniques, all expedient means, but we never reify, except some schools, but I don't agree with those schools. I find them fringe and even if established, are just not in touch with the teaching of pratitsamutpada. But, yes it is clear... from the first turning to Dzogchen. If you take the Dzogchen perspective and understand it, it all clarifies for you in your mind stream through Rigpa realization. It just fits... one understands experientially because you see through all the realms literally on a level past thought structure where information is channeled like millions of books worth per second. Get it or not, I'm not here to transmit Rigpa, just intellectual understanding.

 

Ah, see you don't agree with those schools. So much for a clear path. Oh it's so clear...to you...

 

This is how religious bigotry happens.

 

Yes, but how one understands that compassion is more clear in Buddhism. Other paths do it because of a substantialist view of oneness.

 

Common people are nice to each other because they view others as others. You don't have to be a Buddhist to be the virtue and compassion that it preaches. Ask Jesus.

 

Ok, go for it. I feel that it's easier to get through a forest with an objective guide who knows the forest oh so well, so do %99 percent of those that have actually realized the nature of things. You might be reading Ramana too much? Most get caught up in blissful pitfalls. There teachings sound good but are not complete.

 

Reading Ramana is incredibly confusing. People just puts quotes from him said years apart on a 'similar' topic. But that's...irrelevant.. . Self-inquiry is how it all starts and what motivates the seeker through and through for the Truth.

 

The potentials and means to realization are infinite and unique according to every individual. The Path is not an imitation. Investing in a guide probably has more pitfalls than going through the forest yourself. I mean there are literally too many example of where the teacher/disciple relationship has gone wrong. It's great that you found a teacher who you believe is a great master. But I wouldn't advocate that this is THE way, the 99% way, to Realization.

 

As for the whole violence thing, Tibet is not without its own shady past, Buddhism didn't end violence in the East.

 

But... your going to do what your going to do no matter what anyone says anyway. Keep on keepin' on!

 

Haha, I learned a lot from you bro and others in the forum, we're trading, learning, representing ideas here .

Edited July 31, 2009 by Lucky7Strikes

[Vajrahridaya]

 

Be well!

Yes, there was a beginning. But then it was nothing more than the end of the previous beginning. We go nowhere if we try to walk with one foot nailed to the floor except in circles.

 

Be well!

 

I've always said as such. Like cycles, the start of this universe is the beginning of the last one's end.

 

 

Okay. One more comment.

 

The universe does not exist because of some one or another belief system. The universe exists independant of all perceptions. Belief systems simply try to explain this existance.

 

Seems we still don't understand. Oh well.

 

Be well!

 

Nope, the Buddha understood very well, and it seems like Chuang and Lau did as well with the understanding of mutual co-arising. As in nothing originates without a cause, no level of experience, no state of mind, no mind without the infinite web of causation and effectation to be new causations of new effecations.

 

People reify their belief systems, then experience them eventually over time of strengthening that belief with outpoured focus of effects from causes which are effects from other causes that are actually effects and on and on and on.

 

Through understanding and intuitively experiencing the wisdom of dependent origination, this cycle is emptied of craving, doership and it becomes a web of merit to be offered to infinite beings without actual reified attachment to the notion.

 

Buddha Nature is the same as Brahman. Cut it any way you like...Brahman encompasses everything. Potentiality, existence, non-existence, substantial, insubstantial, all dualities rise from Brahman...all duality recedes into Brahman. Dependent Origination is a lower truth that is superimposed on Brahman.

 

Nope.

 

I don't have much to say about your personal experiences since I don't have any way of either validating or invalidating them. Going by your tone and tenor I am inclined to conclude that they are mostly empty claims. I can only go by your posts here...and I don't see too much stuff beyond all the fluff you quote and re-hash over and over. Not a single thing you've posted seems to have come from your personal understanding or reasoning.

 

 

Should I be really, really self aggrandizing? LOL! We'll...

 

It's clear that your subjective interpretation of both me and the everything else is all you have.

 

See ya on the flip!

 

Okay! Okay! Words, words too much words! You arguers must

listen! 'Who first came, Chicken or Egg'? is koan meant for Western mind by laughing Chinese sage...meant to

turn brain into steaming podge of dim-sum! You no can answer, so you make fruitless argument, or you inhale dim-sum fume, mind to slip easily into pinpoint of enlightenment! EVERYBODY figure 'one hand clapping' koan--this one fool you! Ha ha!

For information on ordering my 9 DVD set, "Hey You! Chicken, or Egg?--Lazy Sage's Guide to Satori" please this link click:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLKn0ktuzgo&fmt=18

 

Ah, great comic relief man!!

Edited July 31, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[Vajrahridaya]

Ah, see you don't agree with those schools. So much for a clear path. Oh it's so clear...to you...

 

This is how religious bigotry happens.

 

No, I pretty much just don't agree with the fringe Shentog school that see's Buddha nature as inherent existence, and I don't agree with Dark Zen that see's Buddhahood as inherent existence. That's pretty much all I can think of right now. I think if these people follow it well that they will have very high rebirths and eventually come to understand what emptiness truly means. But hey, I'm still on the path myself. Sooooo... someone in a wrong view school can be more evolved in that wrong view than I am with my right view. There are other fringe teachers that I don't agree with but they are not established schools. I just don't agree that all paths walk up the same mountain, though we are all in the same boat, some paths lead to falling off into a submarine, and others lead to total drowning. It just doesn't make sense. Because of dependent origination, view predicates fruit of the path. The view must be "right view", the first step on the 8 fold noble path. The Buddha is very specific about what that means, and that means dependent origination.

 

 

Common people are nice to each other because they view others as others. You don't have to be a Buddhist to be the virtue and compassion that it preaches. Ask Jesus.

 

Yes, yes, but what are the real causes for compassion, and how does one elongate the ability to have compassion incessantly even beyond the end of a cosmic eon. Only Buddhism goes into that detail. Vedantins cling to this all pervasive formless Self and are reabsorbed into it when the cosmos starts dissolving into the stage of Pralaya. This is subtle stuff... not that there isn't wisdom in all paths, just that there isn't the whole view.

 

Reading Ramana is incredibly confusing. People just puts quotes from him said years apart on a 'similar' topic. But that's...irrelevant.. . Self-inquiry is how it all starts and what motivates the seeker through and through for the Truth.

 

ROFL!!! Yes, no your right... for sure.

 

The potentials and means to realization are infinite and unique according to every individual. The Path is not an imitation. Investing in a guide probably has more pitfalls than going through the forest yourself. I mean there are literally too many example of where the teacher/disciple relationship has gone wrong. It's great that you found a teacher who you believe is a great master. But I wouldn't advocate that this is THE way, the 99% way, to Realization.

 

We'll good thing you don't have a fixed self, thus your view will also not be fixed, and your opinion will change as your experiences and insights change.

 

As for the whole violence thing, Tibet is not without its own shady past, Buddhism didn't end violence in the East.

Haha, I learned a lot from you bro and others in the forum, we're trading, learning, representing ideas here .

 

Oh sure, the Dalai Lama had his egotistical rebirths. There were also others in the high up's that were caught up in power and greed. Oh, so hard to overcome when it's thrown in your face as a birthright. This current form of the Dalai Lama though is really something special.

 

Individuals will be individuals. Also, for a high being to come down from the clouds to scrape up some Earth, one would have to dig some dirt in order to plant some roots.

Edited July 31, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[dwai]

Nope.

Should I be really, really self aggrandizing? LOL! We'll...

 

It's clear that your subjective interpretation of both me and the everything else is all you have.

 

See ya on the flip!

 

 

[Vajrahridaya]

 

Oh by the way, considering everything personal that I've shared as a lie, is a good way to hold onto your belief structure. Very clever, same with all your Ad-Hom's. Illogical refutations and personal attacks are sure fire way's to show how right you are. Good job!

 

p.s. I am being quite sarcastic here.

 

In the end though, be well!

[dwai]

Oh by the way, considering everything personal that I've shared as a lie, is a good way to hold onto your belief structure. Very clever, same with all your Ad-Hom's. Illogical refutations and personal attacks are sure fire way's to show how right you are. Good job!

 

p.s. I am being quite sarcastic here.

 

In the end though, be well!

 

Unforunately for you, nothing I said was ad hominem. They were the truth and that's how you come across to not just me, but several others I have interacted with. They just don't want to waste their breath telling you that.

 

I guess that makes me more compassionate than them...

 

You be well too...

[Vajrahridaya]

Unforunately for you, nothing I said was ad hominem. They were the truth and that's how you come across to not just me, but several others I have interacted with. They just don't want to waste their breath telling you that.

 

Oh, I'm quite aware of plenty of people that don't like me, which is totally fine, people hate great beings and small beings such as me, and people hated the Buddha (I'm not comparing my attainment to the Buddhas) and even tried to kill him. He challenged the established hierarchy that was also political, of a top down philosophy of a supreme ruler of the universe as well as the caste system established in the Vedas. He challenged the Vedas and spoke openly against much of them. So of course this will engender negative reaction.

 

But, no... those are Ad-Hom's because any time you attack the person in a debate, it's an Ad-Hom, an illogical fallacy by saying the information is incorrect because the person giving it is blemished. Your attacks are emotional assumptions based upon a crumbling edifice of habitual subjectivity.

 

Hardly compassion at all.

 

Not to say that I was always Mr. Compassionate myself. But, I'm merely a Buddhist, not a Buddha.

[Lucky7Strikes]

Hmm, this thread has jacked itself off to the max... . It's good seeing people really invest themselves to these questions. Too often I find myself amongst people who have no idea where to turn to. .

 

Haha, as Marble says,

 

Be Well!

[Sunya]

beating a dead horse...

 

I realized its truly impossible to have an actual philosophical debate with some people here because they are way too attached to their belief systems and have had some experiences which they grasp very strongly with a specific interpretation. like if a Bible thumper has a vision of Jesus, and interprets that experience as dualistic and 'real', theres probably no way you're going to convince that dude that his interpretation was false. at least in that lifetime. it's all karma

 

so really this is pointless as those entrenched in their beliefs will only get further entrenched in their beliefs

[jesusfreak]

beating a dead horse...

 

I realized its truly impossible to have an actual philosophical debate with some people here because they are way too attached to their belief systems and have had some experiences which they grasp very strongly with a specific interpretation. like if a Bible thumper has a vision of Jesus, and interprets that experience as dualistic and 'real', theres probably no way you're going to convince that dude that his interpretation was false. at least in that lifetime. it's all karma

 

so really this is pointless as those entrenched in their beliefs will only get further entrenched in their beliefs

 

How is this not true in your case? You believe what some guy named Buddha said or what some guy named Dalai Lama said. You have energy issues and agreed can't sit tight and meditate for more than a couple minutes. How are you qualified in any way to preach Buddhism? Why do you feel the need the convince everyone here about the greatness of Buddhism? Your accusation simply mirrors itself.

 

I read some other threads by you on the front page. You recently got into Buddhism, liked it and now you want to endlessly talk about it. You probably still have doubts and you want to seek confirmation through these debates and feel secure that you're on the right path. I doubt that will be of much help.

 

Hindus, Christians, Jews, Moslems all got it wrong. Only Buddha got it right. What if it was he who missed the point? Ever considered that possibility? Are you not too attached to your ideas? Why can't you meditate and validate your experiences before you talk? At least the Christian has had a vision of Christ and has something to talk about? and you?

Edited July 31, 2009 by jesusfreak

[dwai]

Oh, I'm quite aware of plenty of people that don't like me, which is totally fine, people hate great beings and small beings such as me, and people hated the Buddha (I'm not comparing my attainment to the Buddhas) and even tried to kill him. He challenged the established hierarchy that was also political, of a top down philosophy of a supreme ruler of the universe as well as the caste system established in the Vedas. He challenged the Vedas and spoke openly against much of them. So of course this will engender negative reaction.

 

But, no... those are Ad-Hom's because any time you attack the person in a debate, it's an Ad-Hom, an illogical fallacy by saying the information is incorrect because the person giving it is blemished. Your attacks are emotional assumptions based upon a crumbling edifice of habitual subjectivity.

 

Hardly compassion at all.

 

Not to say that I was always Mr. Compassionate myself. But, I'm merely a Buddhist, not a Buddha.

 

There is no way to provide personal experience as objective data, so the veracity of it (the personal experience provided as evidence) is naturally doubtful. Since the acceptance of experiential information is largely dependent on the source, the source that acts and behaves in a way that elicits a sense of reliability will have a better chance of having what he/she presents being accepted as bona fide.

 

That is the reason why Hari, your personal testimony is considered tainted and rejected...and that's why the rejection is not ad hominem.

 

If a more reliable seeming source came to me with his testimony of personal experience, say like Lucky7Strikes or Xabir2005, I would not reject it.

 

You must of heard of this sage buddhist saying --

"If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it MUST be a duck!"

 

Meditate on that with your pal Mikaelz!

 

I missed the part about you likening yourself with the Buddha! Wow!! What humility...why am I not surprised?

 

Oh and BTW, you give yourself far too much importance to think people "hate" you. I personally find your braggadocio egotistical and annoying...

Edited July 31, 2009 by dwai

[jesusfreak]

Oh, I'm quite aware of plenty of people that don't like me, which is totally fine, people hate great beings and small beings such as me, and people hated the Buddha (I'm not comparing my attainment to the Buddhas) and even tried to kill him. He challenged the established hierarchy that was also political, of a top down philosophy of a supreme ruler of the universe as well as the caste system established in the Vedas. He challenged the Vedas and spoke openly against much of them. So of course this will engender negative reaction.

 

 

Are you a part of some Buddhist Missionary that is experiemnting with some new conversion tactics? Or raising funds for Tibet that operates from underground and lives on the mercy of a stupid Hindu country? I have seen you often on sangha and people there know you are no more than a big mouth. So this is where you now moved with your baggage.

 

Talking of hierarchy, Buddhists seem to have as much hierarchical divisions and bickering amongst themselves as anyone else, if not more. Look at the state of Tibet today. With some many high beings and so much of merit, why are they living like beggars at the mercy of the bigotted Hindus?

 

The two of you really shame the worthy Buddhists. I hope you see the light of dhamma soon and not simply read and talk about it. VH, your sacral and root chakras look blocked and grainy. Some good yoga, breathing and meditation will do you a lot of good than all this talking. Mikaelz energetically looks lot more stronger and evidently because he has some practice. I don't see any central channel or spleen issues with Mikaelz. And I need to apologize for looking into your energy bodies without permission.

Edited July 31, 2009 by jesusfreak

[dwai]

Are you a part of some Buddhist Missionary that is experiemnting with some new conversion tactics? Or raising funds for Tibet that operates from underground and lives on the mercy of a stupid Hindu country? I have seen you often on sangha and people there know you are no more than a big mouth. So this is where you now moved with your baggage.

 

Talking of hierarchy, Buddhists seem to have as much hierarchical divisions and bickering amongst themselves as anyone else, if not more. Look at the state of Tibet today. With some many high beings and so much of merit, why are they living like beggars at the mercy of the bigotted Hindus?

 

The two of you really shame the worthy Buddhists. I hope you see the light of dhamma soon and not simply read and talk about it. VH, your sacral and root chakras look blocked and grainy. Some good yoga, breathing and meditation will do you a lot of good than all this talking. Mikaelz energetically looks lot more stronger and evidently because he has some practice. I don't see any central channel or spleen issues with Mikaelz. And I need to apologize for looking into your energy bodies without permission.

 

Er...Actually the Dalai Lama and the Tibetans are considered honorable guests of India. And they have done an exemplary job of being fantastic guests and friends. My home in India is about 70-80 miles from the Tibetan settlement at Bylakuppe (which I have visited in the past, much to my pleasure).

Edited July 31, 2009 by dwai

[Vajrahridaya]

There is no way to provide personal experience as objective data, so the veracity of it (the personal experience provided as evidence) is naturally doubtful. Since the acceptance of experiential information is largely dependent on the source, the source that acts and behaves in a way that elicits a sense of reliability will have a better chance of having what he/she presents being accepted as bona fide.

 

That is the reason why Hari, your personal testimony is considered tainted and rejected...and that's why the rejection is not ad hominem.

 

If a more reliable seeming source came to me with his testimony of personal experience, say like Lucky7Strikes or Xabir2005, I would not reject it.

 

You must of heard of this sage buddhist saying --

"If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it MUST be a duck!"

 

Meditate on that with your pal Mikaelz!

 

I missed the part about you likening yourself with the Buddha! Wow!! What humility...why am I not surprised?

 

Oh and BTW, you give yourself far too much importance to think people "hate" you. I personally find your braggadocio egotistical and annoying...

 

Alright! More Ad-Hom's!! Wonderful!!

Ad-Hom blocker's on!!

 

My lifes been intense, so my expression is intense that's all...

 

 

 

 

The two of you really shame the worthy Buddhists. I hope you see the light of dhamma soon and not simply read and talk about it. VH, your sacral and root chakras look blocked and grainy. Some good yoga, breathing and meditation will do you a lot of good than all this talking. Mikaelz energetically looks lot more stronger and evidently because he has some practice. I don't see any central channel or spleen issues with Mikaelz. And I need to apologize for looking into your energy bodies without permission.

 

Wow... a tea kettle that thinks it sees?

 

I've got lots of great friends on E-Sangha!! YAY!!

[jesusfreak]

Alright! More Ad-Hom's!! Wonderful!!

Ad-Hom blocker's on!!

 

My lifes been intense, so my expression is intense that's all...

 

 

You seem to have been scarred with all the intensity and bitterness flows through your posts.

 

Dwai, VH deserves your sympathy. You should let him think of himself as the bodhisatva and enjoy mikaelz's admiration and awe. That will heal him. He has been debating, has possibly had a deprived childhood with parents embracing new age cultures, abuse from gurus like Muktananda etc. He is like a sick puppy who seeks attention and will scream, crap, bite and growl if he does not get it. New Age Hinduism has done nothing but bad and whacked up many like VH and Mikaelz leaving them confused, bitter and with contradictory clingings. This shall pass too. While he holds on to his current Buddhist fanatism like a child clinging to a doll or a puppy to its bone, pet him, feed him and help him heal. Love alone heals. Grounding can follow later. Please be kind to him.

Edited July 31, 2009 by jesusfreak

[Vajrahridaya]

You seem to have been scarred with all the intensity and bitterness flows through your posts.

 

Dwai, VH deserves your sympathy. You should let him think of himself as the bodhisatva and enjoy mikaelz's admiration and awe. That will heal him. He has been debating, has possibly had a deprived childhood with parents embracing new age cultures, abuse from gurus like Muktananda etc. He is like a sick puppy who seeks attention and will scream, crap, bite and growl if he does not get it. New Age Hinduism has done nothing but bad and whacked up many like VH and Mikaelz leaving them confused, bitter and with contradictory clingings. This shall pass too. While he holds on to his current Buddhist fanatism like a child clinging to a doll or a puppy to its bone, pet him, feed him and help him heal. Love alone heals. Grounding can follow later. Please be kind to him.

 

When I read your posts it sounds like your screaming and yelling.

 

Oh well, must be get revenge on me day.

 

The offended make more violence than the offender.

 

Muktananda was an incredible Hindu sage by the way, as is Gurumayi. You've been reading Internet gossip too darn much. If there was internet back during the days of the Buddha, I'm sure there would be plenty of gossip about him.

 

Ok Jesusfreak, you can get back on your spaceship.

[Vajrahridaya]

I did indeed talk about my spiritual experiences too much. I should have never done that and just stuck to logic and reason, as well as scripture.

 

But then people start saying, "oh you just read books and have no experience". So then you share experience, and they say, "oh your experience is subjective".

 

One can't win with minds made up, that's for sure. Guess I wasn't really talking to them in the first place.

[jesusfreak]

I did indeed talk about my spiritual experiences too much. I should have never done that and just stuck to logic and reason, as well as scripture.

 

But then people start saying, "oh you just read books and have no experience". So then you share experience, and they say, "oh your experience is subjective".

 

One can't win with minds made up, that's for sure. Guess I wasn't really talking to them in the first place.

 

 

Dwai, send VH some hugs. He needs them. The Buddhists have left him cold and bitter. He want's to win, not in life, not through material or in meditation, but in this debate. Why can't you give him at least this one small pleasure? You need to appreciate all his long winded posts. I do, even the screaming PM he sent himself (i.e. me aka his mirror-image now. He is trying so hard to balance between what he things is his cool image with his all-knowing, enlightened Bodhisatva robe. He wants to win by talking and let him do that. Send him love, send him hugs, be New Agey even if Miakelz yells at you. As the good ol Oprah branded Tolle teaches, imagine his yelling and screaming to be a Cher song and you will start enjoying it. New Age is good, it is fun, it is new. He is sharing his experiences, he is venting all that pent up hard feelings. You are earning merit by allowing him to do that.. You cannot take away the one thing he has in his life - his attachment to his old baggage, Buddhism and to Dalai Lama's tirades. Letting go of that is not going to be easy and we need to support him through this arduous journey. Let him read, quote and share his experiences. Listen, smile, recognize his sick-puppiness and hug again...Look at the words he uses: revenge, winning, incomplete, "my" experience, deeper. This is all the trauma that the poor puppy has undergone talking and not him ... show some love dwai, will you...

 

 

VH, let it all out brother, we're here for you. Clean those pipes now ...

 

You guys don't do a group hug here are Tao Bums? Man, you need some old freakin Jesusfreak hugs on this forum

Edited July 31, 2009 by jesusfreak

[Vajrahridaya]

 

You guys don't do a group hug here are Tao Bums? Man, you need some old freakin Jesusfreak hugs on this forum

 

Awww... I love you too. So does the Dalai Lama and Muktananda. Gurumayi loves you. Chogyal Namkhai Norbu really loves you as well.

 

Jesus... I don't know if he does.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just kidding.

 

p.s.

 

Here's the private message that I sent to Jesusfreak of me yelling. Oh... it's not in the saved folder. Jesusfreak, you can go ahead and quote me and show the good people how much yelling I did at you.

 

You know I was quite cordial. Though, maybe a bit facetious.

 

It's a good technique though, pull out personal experiences so that one can use them to chop off someones head. Then feel apologetic and come back with some sweet things to say. Meaning it to, because they feel so bad about being so personal in their attack.

[jesusfreak]

Awww... I love you too. So does the Dalai Lama and Muktananda. Gurumayi loves you. Chogyal Namkhai Norbu really loves you as well.

 

Jesus... I don't know if he does.

Just kidding.

 

p.s.

 

Here's the private message that I sent to Jesusfreak of me yelling. Oh... it's not in the saved folder. Jesusfreak, you can go ahead and quote me and show the good people how much yelling I did at you.

 

You know I was quite cordial. Though, maybe a bit facetious.

 

It's a good technique though, pull out personal experiences so that one can use them to chop off someones head. Then feel apologetic and come back with some sweet things to say. Meaning it to, because they feel so bad about being so personal in their attack.

 

 

Yes brother, throw that all out. The heavy words, internet quotes, anger, sense of superiority, frustration at not being heard and recognized by others, sense of deprivation, struggle to fit into a society that simply doesn't understand - let that all go. The Hindu gurus who promised you super powers and the frustration you faced when that did't happen, let that go. Yes, Buddha is a good guy, a great guy. Dalai Lama is the best - if that makes you feel safe, secure and peaceful, that is what it is. You don't like Tao, let that go as well... You want to call Tao confirming to Buddha's teaching and brand it acceptable, sure, we can do that as well. Anything for you brother .... let it all go, clean your pipes. Chop, cut, shout, scream...they key is to let go and love ...does renaming Vedanta and Christianity to Vedanta (incomplete) and Christianity (insane) help you feel better - sure we can do that. You need to let go and feel better brother, if not for your sake, for poor darlin Miakelz who looks up to you as his mentor, support and bodhisatva. Let it all go... its all about you, your ideas and of Buddhas. Don't bother about others...stay focussed on you and we shall attempt the same.

Edited July 31, 2009 by jesusfreak

[Vajrahridaya]

Wow! Oh boy... definitely a freak. At the end do you ask for donations?

 

I don't trust you my dear, anyone who believes so strongly in their subjective personal colorings of people they don't even know, is off their rocking horse.

 

I do feel your love, but it is coming from the wrong space of understanding. You have some good psychological generalizations, but, your very much off your mark my dear. What are you displacing?

 

Are these a bit of your own self diagnosis?

 

p.s. This is kind of fun actually, and interesting. I wonder what else will fall out of the primordial hat? How I stired up so much dirt?? My goodness... Little ol' me, so effectual.

Edited July 31, 2009 by Vajrahridaya