The Chicken or the Egg?

[jesusfreak]

yes!! I got a response! and he tried so hard to impress me! wow, i feel special. now I can sleep easy tonight

 

please respond with more sarcasm I beg you!!

 

Sure brother, Ken Wilber might have left you high and dry, I won't. Sleep brother sleep...I will stay awake all night and carry on with your sacred mission...Okay, I already put on my monk robes...

 

O Bhikkus..listen..I alone know the truth and the way to it..Tramp the rest and you shall pass the test...[need more tequila for dhamma talk to continue..brother you sleep...I will take care here ...I promise

[Vajrahridaya]

Yes brother, you're right - completely... as long as you're on VH's team. It seems to me that you've dependently originated from him.

 

You obviously don't understand inter-dependent origination... so... hey yeah to all your funny sarcasm.. It was a blast though.. Really funny!

 

Maybe I've seen you before with another name...??

[jesusfreak]

You obviously don't understand inter-dependent origination... so... hey yeah to all your funny sarcasm.. It was a blast though.. Really funny!

 

Maybe I've seen you before with another name...??

 

Brother, you don't remember me already? An year is too short to forget your most ardent admirer. You cannot run away from your admirers by moving to a new city and a new forum. Adoration follows the one who deserves it. I am happy brother that I made you smile...hugs and more love...

 

I also accept I dont understand dependent origination, my brain is so damn thick and filled with years of Jesus stuff and now tequila. Empty it for me brother, make me bald like Dalai Lama, make me wise...make me like you...make me you...make me empty brother...

 

and brother, don't bother sending PMs. I totally understand that your abuses are for my own betterment. Please shed those pearls here so that more people are benefited by them. Please do, I beg of you... Don't worry about your Buddhist image brother...abusing those who don't agree is the ninth dharma of the noble path which Buddha taught to non-samsaric beings. These idiots here who may accuse you being non compassionate or abusive know nothing. Brother, I yearn for more such abuse. Correct me through thy abuse, purify me..give me a ticket to the buddha bus...I beg of you...

 

and brother I have an msn messenger too, please add me brother....it will save you and the upcoming Bodhisatva time that would otherwise be spent in discussion of future strategy. Take me into your ghetto brother...only you sick puppies can care for another of your kind...anything for you BROTHER

Edited August 1, 2009 by jesusfreak

[Vajrahridaya]

My abusive PM's? LOL!! All I do is send you tongues and facetious blah-says...

[Sunya]

Silicon, relax. you're creating some really bad karma for yourself here.

[jesusfreak]

My abusive PM's? LOL!! All I do is send you tongues and facetious blah-says...

 

Brother, don't give up on me... I am already missing your PMs... don't I deserve more than just two abusive PMs that were aimed at correcting me, just like your master corrected you... Brother...I crave for more of them. I surely despise Dwai at this instant, he seems to have drained you of many such corrective insults. But brother, your repository is infinite like the number of mindstreams. Brother, dont give up on me.

 

 

And those smilies brother, what is their significance? Shape of Dalai Lama's head? Or the number has something special? Brother, nothing you say lacks a deeper dimension...but enlighten me and help me see beyond this pretentious garb of obnoxiousness... love you more brother...more than ever

[Sunya]

Silicon, relax. you're creating some really bad karma for yourself here.

 

I hope you didn't miss this message Silicon, let me quote it for you.

[jesusfreak]

I hope you didn't miss this message Silicon, let me quote it for you.

Brother, call me Sand, call me mud, call me Silicon, I take them all as expressions of your love.

 

Brother, apologies for keeping you awake.....I know your love for me brings you back here. Brother, Three's company is awesome..and what a set of three we are...brother, if it helps you sleep, I will stop posting till morning...and will start again after you're back...that way you will get the testimonies of my loyalty to dhamma fressssh...will that help ....brother... and what makes you think I have silicon implants brother... love me for who I am and not my implants...brother...

 

And brother what is bad karma? I thought not agreeing with Buddha/NN/DL/VH and you is bad karma. I am agreeing with every bit. I am even bashing the Self folks. Is that not good karma...I know you're testing me brother.

 

Sweet brother...sleep, I will sing a lullabye for you...if that helps...and will guard you from God Self...I promise...its not me you should lose your sleep about...I aint worthy of this attention.

 

And there are so few profanities you've used today brother, the dhamma does not permit it...we need to deal with utmost profanity when talking to Self folks. You started well with Ken W but then lost it all? Cummon, it's in you...bring out the dhamma, let it all out...This mellowing is not helping with your young and restless image....herbs are helping but not to the desired level ..... relax....breathe.....[tequila has kicked in] .. you guys give meaning to my life....I fear the day when you stop posting here...but that is impossible for dhamma depends on none and follows its own course...okay, I lost it here...its now only tequila talking and not me... and some pot too...love you guys...even more....

Edited August 1, 2009 by jesusfreak

[Marblehead]

Have you guys determined who can piss the furthest yet?

 

Be well!

[Vajrahridaya]

Him, he's had more to drink.

[jesusfreak]

Him, he's had more to drink.

Oops, right, sorry brother...you were right beside me and I had too much tequila...I hate to piss in the middle of the night and much so less on others. But the mishap happened...and I am sure it is all karma at play... Please take a shower and accept my apology...lets re-incarnate and start our Missionary Activity with renewed vigor and fresh clothes on ...Brother

Edited August 1, 2009 by jesusfreak

[JustARandomPanda]

Vasistha's Yoga translated by Swami Venkatesananda in the big long grey version is actually quite excellent, you should read it. It puts all the different branches of Hinduism together in a seamless way. It's quite good for a theistic approach.

Hmm...

 

Is this the version you are talking about? Or is it this one (with maybe a new cover)? I ask because my friend (the one who explained Panpsychist Brahmanism) recommended the second one. I don't know if he's read or is aware of the first one.

[JustARandomPanda]

Yet all Consciousness is encompassed in it. Because it IS consciousness itself. See Shankara's criticism of the Alaya Vigyana in an earlier post. It is self-aware and self-illumined because there is no other. Consciousness is self-aware...that's why you know that You Are, in other words, aware of yourself.

 

It's only that you don't yet know that I am also you and you are also VH and VH is also Taomeow and so on. And that we are all one...since there is only One Absolute Consciousness.

This is it! This is what my friend explained to me is called Panpsychist Brahmanism! It is also what that guy in South America - Julio Siquiera - said is the only other philosophical argument (besides Solipsism) which does not have a hidden internal inconsistency with 'something' (karma? mind? whatever?) surviving bodily death.

[Vajrahridaya]

Hmm...

 

Is this the version you are talking about? Or is it this one (with maybe a new cover)? I ask because my friend (the one who explained Panpsychist Brahmanism) recommended the second one. I don't know if he's read or is aware of the first one.

 

Well, I was recommending the first one for someone who really likes the nitty gritty. The first one is 800 pages with real tight print, so more like over 1000 pages in regular sized print. It's really detailed. The concise one is good if you just want to go right to the meaning and not so much of the break down. I do recommend the bigger one, because the bigger one is already abridged anyway, so the second one is kind of a double abridging. I mean in Sanskrit it's huge, many volumes spanning thousands of pages, as the second largest book in the entire world.

 

So, I do personally recommend the first one, but you can do a muscle test about it, or feel it out intuitively. If you read the comments, maybe you'll get a better idea of what would be good for you and fit for where you are in your path.

 

Take care!

 

p.s. Notice though, that there are places where even Vasistha doesn't know the reason why some things happen (because of not understanding dependent origination). That was my main point in bringing it up. Other than that, if you want that approach it's one of the best Theistic books because of it's vast and detailed coverage of multiple perspectives.

[JustARandomPanda]

Well, I was recommending the first one for someone who really likes the nitty gritty. The first one is 800 pages with real tight print, so more like over 1000 pages in regular sized print. It's really detailed. The concise one is good if you just want to go right to the meaning and not so much of the break down. I do recommend the bigger one, because the bigger one is already abridged anyway, so the second one is kind of a double abridging. I mean in Sanskrit it's huge, many volumes spanning thousands of pages, as the second largest book in the entire world.

 

So, I do personally recommend the first one, but you can do a muscle test about it, or feel it out intuitively. If you read the comments, maybe you'll get a better idea of what would be good for you and fit for where you are in your path.

 

Take care!

 

p.s. Notice though, that there are places where even Vasistha doesn't know the reason why some things happen (because of not understanding dependent origination). That was my main point in bringing it up. Other than that, if you want that approach it's one of the best Theistic books because of it's vast and detailed coverage of multiple perspectives.

Interesting. Speaking only for myself...I can't even explain why - I find myself drawn to a more Buddhist explanation in this thread. But again I don't know why. Then again...I like Taoism too. Taoism makes a lot of sense too. In fact...I can find reasons for finding sense in all of these explanations - Vedic too. Gah... This sucks. What a confusing state to be in.

 

Edited August 2, 2009 by SereneBlue

[jesusfreak]

p.s. Notice though, that there are places where even Vasistha doesn't know the reason why some things happen (because of not understanding dependent origination). That was my main point in bringing it up. Other than that, if you want that approach it's one of the best Theistic books because of it's vast and detailed coverage of multiple perspectives.

 

Oh brother...I agree with you...Vasistha was indeed dumb. These Self folks may claim that it was the incompetent one who was untrained that could not look into the words that hence felt that Vasistha did not know it all. Some of these ignorant ones may also claim that Vasistha spoke of what he wanted to convey through words and left some things obscure for experience alone could reveal the truth. Some may also claim Vasistha's book does not represent mainstream Theism. But that is all bullshit. If you say Vasistha did not get it, that means that IS the truth. Afterall, you/Buddha/DL/NN know it all... we have seen your knowledge proven by your own kind words repeatedly here and we have also the meditational bliss-cosmic journeys etc. etc. that have proved Theism wrong....We could also quote here specific verses that prove Vasistha's ignorance but the Self guys will explain how it was the failure on the part of the reader to understand what was being said that we found him to be incomplete and ignorant. Why take that brother...they will attribute the claimed ignorance of Vasistha to be a mirror effect...hmmm...let's leave it here...let's say he is dumb and people will take it its true...after all is YOU who is saying that! If he is not a Buddhist and does not speak of Dependent Origination at least twice the number of posts on Thusness' blog, there is no way he can know it all and full. I don't understand why someone would ask for more proof than this...brother

 

brother.... me and tequila are here for you again. I guess it is time to throw away the yogavasistha. Would you still recommend laghu vasistha as it takes less space brother and can even be used for weight training. Brother, you have spoken so less of how incompetent Theism is, today. Are you sure you're not under the God spell...I am worried for you..brother

 

Sereneblue, you've a cute puppy on your profile...so it's my duty to tell you what VH is withholding from saying all this on account of his gigantic compassion towards the poor Theists. But my tequila will give me the strength to let it all out...Vasistha's book is good for theists but is also rubbish because he did not know it all. Read it if you want to be stuck in samsara. And Samsara is not a loooong and slow-moving boring movie brother...so if you thought you could get away with an unlimited supply of popcorn, no...samsara is scary!!!! We need to be scared of samsara and every moment of our life should be dedicated to finding out and debating on how to escape this samsara. Don't you make the mistake of actually "living" in this samsara brother...samsara is to be escaped!!! But I also felt samsara is nirvana...never mind, sometimes a third schizophrenic personality of mine kicks in who has severe theravada leanings. So, Vasistha did not escape samsara and how will reading his samsaric book help you? You are better off reading VH's posts for he has figured out Vasistha completely and accurately...stay happy brother.....this is all neither real nor an illusion..like illusion...and that this is neither illusion or real and like illusion, is an illusion. And that this [...] is an illusion is the truth...and this truth is like a truth but actually an illusion. Ah, I am going offtrack to the concept of maya being beginningless and VH will not pardon me for this...Back to Buddha-bus - the only Bus with permit to drive on Enlightenemnt highway...

 

blue, stay well...

Edited August 2, 2009 by jesusfreak

[Vajrahridaya]

Interesting. Speaking only for myself...I can't even explain why - I find myself drawn to a more Buddhist explanation in this thread. But again I don't know why. Then again...I like Taoism too. Taoism makes a lot of sense too. In fact...I can find reasons for finding sense in all of these explanations - Vedic too. Gah... This sucks. What a confusing state to be in.

 

 

Trying to find your particular spiritual path will end up being the most bewildering, the most confusing, difficult, trying, trialing, but also... the MOST rewarding situation one could get oneself into.

 

I am very thankful for my period of intense Shaivite Tantra, Vedantic approach as I learned a whole lot about how the universe works and my mind, then learned even more of what I was missing in my Vedic approach by seeing what Buddhism has to offer, then now Dzogchen, which I haven't talked about at all really, as that takes a lot of qualification I think to do so.

 

I also find Taoism extremely fascinating and have so for quite some time.

 

I wish you all the best in your search!

[dwai]

Hmm...

 

Is this the version you are talking about? Or is it this one (with maybe a new cover)? I ask because my friend (the one who explained Panpsychist Brahmanism) recommended the second one. I don't know if he's read or is aware of the first one.

 

I would recommend reading "Jnana Yoga -- The way of knowledge" by Dr Ramakrishna Puligandla (he's a physicist and a philosopher trained in classical indian style -- gurukulam).

You can find his title on Amazon.com.

 

This is a wonderful work on MAdhyamika and Advaita and presented in simple, lucid form and would act as a great starting place before venturing into more traditional titles. But when I say starter book, I don't mean it's a "Jnana Yoga for Dummies". Au contraire, the book is a classic to have in your library and active reading list. Re-reading it gives more insights...the more you read the deeper it makes you think...

Edited August 2, 2009 by dwai

[dwai]

Interesting. Speaking only for myself...I can't even explain why - I find myself drawn to a more Buddhist explanation in this thread. But again I don't know why. Then again...I like Taoism too. Taoism makes a lot of sense too. In fact...I can find reasons for finding sense in all of these explanations - Vedic too. Gah... This sucks. What a confusing state to be in.

 

 

They are all the same. I've been practicing Taiji Chuan and Taoist meditation since the past 8 years. I also have been practicing Raja Yoga/Jnana Yoga for a long time.

 

As I dig deeper into each tradition (especially Taoist and Vedic) I find more similarities than differences. There are sections of the Tao Te Ching that nearly the same as those in the Upanishads, almost verbatim. Same goes for Buddhism (no matter what any dogmatic wannabe-buddhist says).

 

You know why they are identical? Because the Seers and Sages went beyond the state of reason to directly access the Absolute/Ultimate Reality (that which is beyond the rational mind). Their insights were identical because it is the same thing they are all talking about.

 

There are differences of course, but those differences are more because of the different backgrounds the seers had (a Prince would interpret Ultimate reality in a different way than a farmer would, and so on). In other words, the seers' categorical frameworks influenced their expression of this indescribable ultimate reality.

 

That's why you have Lao Tzu say that "The Tao that can be named is not the real Tao". Or Shankara say that "Brahman is Silence" or Buddha refuse to discuss "Ultimate Reality" altogether. Because you cannot label/describe it without limiting it.

[Vajrahridaya]

Buddha refuse to discuss "Ultimate Reality" altogether.

 

In Buddhism, there is no reified ultimate transcendent reality.

 

The Buddha said, "If there was an essence to the universe to be taken refuge in, I would have taught that, but since there is not, I do not teach that."

 

The Buddha taught one to take refuge in the realization beyond essence.

 

The Buddha taught that a universal essence was a mistaken cognition, based upon mis-understanding meditative experience.

 

This, is what the Buddha taught, and he denied Vedic teaching as being worthy of refuge. This is absolutely undeniable if one actually reads the Pali Suttas, not just some of them, but all of them.

 

He taught in many different ways. He even taught some of what are the Mahayana Sutras directly to various very advanced students while still embodied.

 

It feels nice to say all religions lead to the same Truth. They may though for an individual, as stepping stones to higher capacities as each spiritual tradition serves a particular intuitive capacity of experiential comprehension... where one actually see's each spiritual tradition as a rung on the ladder.

 

But, practically speaking, no, they don't each lead to the same place. Because realization originates dependent upon view. It's very clear in the 4 noble truths and the 8 fold noble path.

 

Take care.

[JustARandomPanda]

This entire thread is beginning to remind me of Richard Linklater's movie, Waking Life. I feel like the guy who keeps thinking he wakes up...only to start getting creepy evidence he's not. Which came first - Chicken or the Egg....hell if I know.

 

 

With that in mind I dedicate these 2 YouTube clips from the the movie.

 

 

YouTube clip 1 of Waking Life

 

 

YouTube clip 2 of Waking Life

[Vajrahridaya]

This entire thread is beginning to remind me of Richard Linklater's movie, Waking Life. I feel like the guy who keeps thinking he wakes up...only to start getting creepy evidence he's not. Which came first - Chicken or the Egg....hell if I know.

With that in mind I dedicate these 2 YouTube clips from the the movie.

YouTube clip 1 of Waking Life

YouTube clip 2 of Waking Life

 

Oh man! That's on my list of top 5 movies of all time!! It's amazing!!

 

Looooove it!!

 

Yes... watching the clips right now... Seeing in all direction while awake is very strange I tell you or maybe the deeper natural? Sometimes it's very stressful, but that's my fault I think.

 

I can watch this movie over and over and over... it's kind of like a scripture of some sort... LOL!! A modern movie version of multiple perspectives. One could say that it's kind of a movie version of Vasistha's Yoga, kind of... a deeply abridged version, !!

 

I left a comment on the second clip. Where you first start to realize that he just might be going through the bardo's. As in the stages between death and rebirth.

Edited August 2, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[Sunya]

that movie is what got me interested in philosophy, freshmen year of college. I don't know if I'd even be the same person if I hadn't seen that movie. its truly amazing.

 

good quote from the scene with the guy playing the pinball machine (who is actually the director)

"There's only one instant, and it's right now. And it's eternity. "

[JustARandomPanda]

I wonder how this thread got to arguing Buddhist v. Hindu 'realizations' on a TAOIST board.

Edited August 2, 2009 by SereneBlue

[Sunya]

it's not exclusively a Taoist board.

if you don't find the topic interesting, don't read it.

 

Oh man! That's on my list of top 5 movies of all time!! It's amazing!!

 

Looooove it!!

 

Yes... watching the clips right now... Seeing in all direction while awake is very strange I tell you or maybe the deeper natural? Sometimes it's very stressful, but that's my fault I think.

 

I can watch this movie over and over and over... it's kind of like a scripture of some sort... LOL!! A modern movie version of multiple perspectives. One could say that it's kind of a movie version of Vasistha's Yoga, kind of... a deeply abridged version, !!

 

I left a comment on the second clip. Where you first start to realize that he just might be going through the bardo's. As in the stages between death and rebirth.

 

 

dude remember I told you about those dreams I had last night where I was flying around my house? it was just like Wakign Life where he starts floating out of his bed and starts flying around. haha