findley Posted July 21, 2009 Following practice of The Secret of the Golden Flower Last few days I have been trying to find and cultivate 'Dao' directly. I'm not really sure what I am doing. It is easy to open the heart, and feel the subtle bliss there through practice. But lately, in attempt to deepen my practice, I have been trying to 'open' my 'mind' (/'head' may be better word,) as well. In what I am trying to do, I feel that the strongest obstacle to my direct experience of Dao is in my head-- and so, I have been trying to 'open' it, like I have the heart. It's very much different from the heart, however-- and I am doubtful that the experience should be the same. -One point is that when I opened my heart, I rest my attention on the heart. Now, I am spending my attention on trying to realize tao-- and that is my folly. Perhaps now that I have opened my heart, I should rest my attention on my mid-brow, like the book says... probably most obvious answer... anyways, I'm going to read through the book again tonight-- but if anyone has any faint idea of what I am trying to express, I would really very highly appreciate some advice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
findley Posted July 21, 2009 Cleary's translation of the Secret of the Golden Flower Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted July 21, 2009 Hi Findley, Just my personal opinion and it doesn't come from any book. First, you said it yourself: Now, I am spending my attention on trying to realize tao-- and that is my folly. It is my opinion that we do not 'realize' Tao - we experience Tao. As far as experiencing, that is, being totally immersed in Tao, there are only two states: total chaos or total emptiness. Chaos being you think something happened but you have no idea what it was. Emptiness being no thought, not even a describable experience, kinda' like you weren't even there but you know you were gone. I was told many years ago that it isn't even good to try to totally immerse yourself in Tao (the wu state) because you might not come back. It was also suggested that if I wanted the experience I should have someone very knowledgeable present to bring me back if I became totally immerse. (I never tried it.) And like I said, I can't quote you any book because my opinion is based on what a number of people who are much wiser than I am told me a few years ago. However, one can attain the wu state (emptiness) for a short period of time without any problems. Be well! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
findley Posted July 23, 2009 "It is my opinion that we do not 'realize' Tao - we experience Tao." -Exactly . What I had done was unintentionally develop a conceptualization of 'Tao', and spent some time trying to 'dive into it'. What this had led to was a state of 'oblivion' (as described in tSotGF.) This realization dawned upon me in a powerful manner-- I had smoked a bunch of pot to accentuate and emphasize the experience. It was unpleasant. (really, the first tip off... while it is possible to maintain an unpleasant practice whilst maintaining the subtle biss, oen should realize immediately if the practice is unpleasant.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZenStatic Posted July 24, 2009 "It is my opinion that we do not 'realize' Tao - we experience Tao." -Exactly . What I had done was unintentionally develop a conceptualization of 'Tao', and spent some time trying to 'dive into it'. What this had led to was a state of 'oblivion' (as described in tSotGF.) This realization dawned upon me in a powerful manner-- I had smoked a bunch of pot to accentuate and emphasize the experience. It was unpleasant. (really, the first tip off... while it is possible to maintain an unpleasant practice whilst maintaining the subtle biss, oen should realize immediately if the practice is unpleasant.) I'm curious, how do you think that the drug is going to be helpful? All it will do is befuddle the mind even more, so I'm not really grasping how you can in any way find it a positive tool. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sunya Posted July 24, 2009 pot dulls the mind and really screws up the channels. i had some really amazing insights on pot, i wrote them down.. when i came back to reality I looked at these insights and laughed my ass off. thats when I knew it was time to quit.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted July 24, 2009 Okay. Just to make sure that my opinion is stated on the subject of drugs and alcohol: keep them out of your life!!!!! They ain't no good!!!!!!! I realize that not everyone will follow my recommendation but I assure you that I will. Be well! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
minkus Posted July 24, 2009 (edited) Perhaps now that I have opened my heart, I should rest my attention on my mid-brow, like the book says... probably most obvious answer... Howcome that 2 days ago you opend up the heart and a day later you post this quote in a thread of a fellow taobum sharing he's experiences in order to help the community ? BAH how do you have so much conscious patience to pull off all that complicated crap? Start associating with the stars and all the constellations, too. I bet that will give you a hard-on Are you sure you opend up the heart ? Apology i couldnt resist. As an advice i would suggest you not to focus to long on the head or the heart, it can give you a headache or palpitations. Good luck ! Edited July 24, 2009 by minkus Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
findley Posted July 25, 2009 I think I proved my point with pot in the prior message-- It helped me to understand that I had 'conceptualized Dao' and that by 'diving into' such a conceptiualization, I was really only diving into 'oblivion'. This 'faulty conception of Dao' did not really become clear to me as such until I smoked a bunch of pot. So there you go. -Minkus, don't make too big a moron out of yourself. What do you expect to happen? -That I skip around winking and jerking and asking everybody to have a nice day? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Li TaoRen Posted July 25, 2009 this is a very cryptic text, and difficult to understand completely. If your goal is to calm the mind to quiescence, It does not matter at what point you focus, but be consistent. If you are a beginner, It is wise to begin with the lower dantian, and when you gain some awareness and abundance you will feel the energy rise. It is important to close by rooting the Qi/SHen in the lower dantian if your practice is involving the mid or upper. Forcing visualization. Speaking from the past, practicing stoned doesnt help either. or sensations will not help, just be patient Cleary's translation of the Secret of the Golden Flower Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
