KUNLUN IS A FALSE WAY

[Li TaoRen]

You are a novice who wavers like a sapling, and thinks he is enlightened. Your advice is full of misconception. The fact that you waver so much is evidence of your lack of stability- it borders on paranoid delusional

kunlun is an ENERGY PRACTICE that serves only to enhance the TEMPORAL SELF.

 

PROMISES given by kunlun advocates BLIND others from achieving ENLIGHTENMENT-- only tempting the practitioner with ENHANCEMENTS OF THE TEMPORAL SELF.

 

one must learn to recognize the MYSTERIOUS PASS, and to carry it with them throughout the day. Dwelling in the ATEMPORAL is the only means to enlightenment.

 

YES ! SEE GHOSTS ! ENHANCE YOUR BODILY PRESENCE ! BECOME A 'BEING OF LIGHT' !

 

-don't you see, these are only TEMPORAL TEMPTATIONS ?!

 

I promise you, you want to practice to attain ENLIGHTENMENT. It is infinitely more 'correct' than practicing to attain a 'light body' !

 

-Learn to recognize the mysterious pass! carry it with you through the day ! THIS is true evolution !

 

 

Bow down to the master! Will you teach me the way to your elightenment? I would love to be filled with arrogance contempt and anger, and be right when everyone else is wrong.

I think he just wants attention, where negative attention is better than no attention.

Edited August 6, 2009 by Li TaoRen

[hyok]

One thing I learned from the I Ching (which I should really practice more often), is to shut-up because talking too much creates mistakes and thus weakens the adept.

 

I like what marblehead wrote the other day, "Try to avoid conclusions. Best to keep an open mind.", or something like that.

[minkus]

-A re-iteration, for some of you.

 

Perhaps it is a mistake for me to post at all; there are several posters who are obviously capable of reading my own posts, but if their discussion is swamped by shit-brains, I think I should be generally disappointed.

 

Been a bit harsh there for a moment, also not respectfull i realize.

 

Goodnight.

[findley]

"I think he just wants attention, where negative attention is better than no attention."

 

-That may be very correct. I think I actually appreciate how this has turned into a 'Thrash Findley' thread-- it heightens my sense of righteousness-- you all continue to criticize me, but don't seem to even understand what it is I have said.

 

Li TaoRen-- I will address you publicly:

 

In our private conversations, you have portrayed an awesomely faulty understanding of classic taoist philosophy and alchemy. It is that fools such as yourself criticize me, that I find myself lorded over you.

You can perceive only text in a forum-- and in that, you can't even understand the real message I was trying to relay.

 

You suck my ass, Li TaoRen. I understand myself perfectly well, and am perfectly content with both myself, my actions, and the apparant interpretations of my words-- I do not need some piss-ant fool like yourself, or many of the others here trashing me, to illustrate myself to myself.

 

I may not be a sage-- but I am learning the way day by day, and can assure myself that I am much further along the way than many of you.

 

"The sage is ruthless, and treats the people as straw-dogs."

 

 

-I don't think I am interested anymore in sharing, publicly, the concept of the Mysterious Pass. For a primarily TAOIST forum, I am surprised that most of you are so apparantly ignorant of this basic, Taoist concept. This only encourages me in myself, and my endeavors-- in my lording myself over so many of you idiots. Perhaps when you all learn for yourselves the concept of the Mysterious Pass, you will understand my emphasis in the initial post, and will apologize to me, to your pathetic selves, for reacting like such imbeciles.

 

'cast not pearls unto swine', eh?

 

Sloppy Zhang, I will PM you the message I have sent to others who have asked about the mysterious pass. I'm sorry for being in a bad mood.

[Aetherous]

It's debatable whether Kunlun is a false way...could be true! Could make (yet another) great discussion.

 

But it should be absolutely clear to everyone that participating in this kind of discussion (in this topic thus far) is more of a "false way" than anything.

 

Findley, I kind of agreed with your initial post. But I highly disagree with the way you act here. You are insulting everyone, and that's against the forum rules. If I remember correctly, you even threatened to piss on everyone.

 

Despite enjoying your personality, I would ban you in a second if I had the ability.

Edited August 6, 2009 by Scotty

[Biff]

EDIT: Out of respect to others and I have removed my comments.

Edited August 9, 2009 by Biff

[jaloo]

Has anyone read the insult policy reminder that Sean posted?

[Creation]

I don't know what's being passed around via PM (feel free to fill me in, anyone), but for someone who wants an explanation of the mysterious pass, xabir posted the primary reference:

 

"The nameless is the origin of Heaven and Earth

The named is the mother of myriad things

Thus, constantly free of desire

One observes its wonders

Constantly filled with desire

One observes its manifestations

These two emerge together but differ in name

The unity is said to be the mystery

Mystery of mysteries, the door to all wonders"

 

The mysterious pass is the gateway between the congenital and acquired natures, or pre-heaven and post heaven states (the "two" described above). In other words, very very important.

 

dao zhen's definition (from http://www.thetaobums.com/Taoist-Terminology-t6162.html):

Mysterious Pass

The mysterious pass is the seed, which buds to form Heaven and Earth. All things in the corporeal world rise from it. It is located both inside and outside the human body. However, people cannot find its location in the human body, and it is hopeless if people search for it outside the body. It serves as a bridge connecting the existence region and the nonexistence region.

 

Some descriptions of experiencing the mysterious pass from Hu Xuezhi's site:

 

From http://damo-qigong.net/step3.htm :

My master replied, "To survey the emptiness of lower elixir field with an inward gaze while not to be lost in it is a correct method; meanwhile, to be lost in it is a false one. The psychical rays are screened and buried in oblivion always, for you don't know how to bring your mind-will to emptiness and let it remain still and motionless. Silently seeing the lower elixir field inwardly for a long time, with your mind-will settling upon the emptiness, gradually you will be conscious of the existence of pre-Heaven Qi in the region below the heart and above the kidney, in which region, as the chance matures, the Mysterious Pass will come on the scene. The emptiness without psychical rays coming from the Mysterious Pass is called dead emptiness; while that with psychic rays lively emptiness, in which we set about cultivating true self. "

 

From http://damo-qigong.net/step8.htm :

My master replied, " In fact, Mysterious Pass is Qi of great unification. you can perceive it by its rays. In general, you can gain the consciousness that it always hangs before your Yin Tang acupoint [third eye]. Even a minor error with previous steps will bring about no Mysterious Pass appearing. We all know the fact that human body contains Qi which, in its turn, contains the yin souls and yang souls and other. so if the Qi drifts away from the human body the man is dead. The emergence of Mysterious Pass represents a breakthrough having taken place in your long course of pursuing Tao. The psychical rays, pure and crystal-like, will become more and more bright, and will spread away when it is bright enough and could not be retrieved. Then the rays will appear again, still pure and like a full silver moon, floating before your Yin Tang acupoint. At this moment you ought to gaze upon these psychical rays with two eyes. Then in consequence, the Qi of great unification will gather together. The brighter the psychical rays become, the rounder this moon-shaped Mysterious Pass will change to be. At this time you must all at once gather these psychical rays for your own possession, otherwise it will scatter away and all your previous efforts will drain away."

 

Anyone who wants to investigate this further should read their book Revealing the Tao Te Ching.

 

Also, if I may say so, name calling and other forms of animosity do not help anyone achieve the Tao.

 

Best,

Tyler

Edited August 6, 2009 by Creation

[JustARandomPanda]

 

 

*olive branches to everyone in this thread*

Edited August 6, 2009 by SereneBlue

[findley]

[Li TaoRen]

Pearls and swine. You are of course free to think and believe what you want. My understanding of alchemy and Classics is not in question. I have studied a long time. I explained a point, and you decided I was wrong, even though you were the one asking. But what you believe and think is empty and does not matter, and don't worry I will never respond to another of your posts.

"I think he just wants attention, where negative attention is better than no attention."

 

-That may be very correct. I think I actually appreciate how this has turned into a 'Thrash Findley' thread-- it heightens my sense of righteousness-- you all continue to criticize me, but don't seem to even understand what it is I have said.

 

Li TaoRen-- I will address you publicly:

 

In our private conversations, you have portrayed an awesomely faulty understanding of classic taoist philosophy and alchemy. It is that fools such as yourself criticize me, that I find myself lorded over you.

You can perceive only text in a forum-- and in that, you can't even understand the real message I was trying to relay.

 

You suck my ass, Li TaoRen. I understand myself perfectly well, and am perfectly content with both myself, my actions, and the apparant interpretations of my words-- I do not need some piss-ant fool like yourself, or many of the others here trashing me, to illustrate myself to myself.

 

I may not be a sage-- but I am learning the way day by day, and can assure myself that I am much further along the way than many of you.

 

"The sage is ruthless, and treats the people as straw-dogs."

-I don't think I am interested anymore in sharing, publicly, the concept of the Mysterious Pass. For a primarily TAOIST forum, I am surprised that most of you are so apparantly ignorant of this basic, Taoist concept. This only encourages me in myself, and my endeavors-- in my lording myself over so many of you idiots. Perhaps when you all learn for yourselves the concept of the Mysterious Pass, you will understand my emphasis in the initial post, and will apologize to me, to your pathetic selves, for reacting like such imbeciles.

 

'cast not pearls unto swine', eh?

 

Sloppy Zhang, I will PM you the message I have sent to others who have asked about the mysterious pass. I'm sorry for being in a bad mood.

[Old Man Contradiction]

I just wanted to say good luck to everyone. There is infinitely more love for you in this world than there is drama. Infinitely more love than I personally know, but have been now and again, just like you...

[Mal]

I'm more concerned that findley was "..." and hance has been here for a long time without much change.

 

As far as false ways go. I would like to know what he has been practicing in that time span

 

The personal practice section and intro in lobby throws much light.

 

I'm too valuable to be banned-

 

Good luck with that line of thinking If I could offer advice read RJ posts as you don't quite have that style yet.

 

The mysterious pass need not be mysterious, Thanks to Tyler & goggle is our friend, this one is helpful too

 

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=t8h8my...ass&f=false

[Lucky7Strikes]

[hagar]

I took a seminar and while its not a main practice, Kunlun is part of what I do. I see it as a quick simple meditation, an unusual mix of emptiness and spontaneous gi gung that has no particular philosophy. Max's stories and histories frankly went in one ear and out the other. I've experienced no ghosts, body enhancements or beings of light, no bliss either, but I've come to realize I'm not that kind of guy.

 

I don't buy into any ones hype of enlightenment. There are too few accessible role models. I've given up the chase, which may paradoxically bring it closer. My aim is temporally set for the here and now. Maybe a little bit for the rest of the day and week.

 

As a 'house hold' practitioner, I applaud the hard core for there discipline, but I've got mortgage, wife and kids. Philosophy and even practice take second place to the necessities of life. For me and my ilk best is whats simple and accessible. We don't have hours to practice or weeks to travel to exotic teachers. Nor does deep philosophical discussions matter much, been there done that; if it doesn't inspire me to make a change in my life then its just another TV commercial.

 

Maybe Kunlun is false if you see it as the be all and end all. As a practice its can be good and powerful, though I'm glad people are getting warned that anything powerful can burn too.

 

Michael

 

Great.

 

h

[Guest winpro07]

Kunlun and Red Phoenix together complete the alchemy

[Spirit Ape]

Winpro,

 

Why do you think it is complete, can you explain how these 2 practices can be joined?

 

Regards

Ape

[Marblehead]

Hi All,

 

It seems to me that there is an attempt to create a mountain of a mole hill regarding the concept of "the mysterious pass".

 

There is no mystery! We are told what it is by Lao Tzu. Lin Yutang's translation reads:

 

Therefore:

Oftentimes, one strips oneself of passion

In order to see the Secret of Life;

Oftentimes, one regards life with passion,

In order to see its manifest forms.

 

These two (the Secret and its manifestations)

Are (in their nature) the same;

They are given different names

When they become manifest.

 

They may both be called the Cosmic Mystery:

Reaching from the Mystery into the Deeper Mystery

Is the Gate to the Secret of All Life.

 

And Chuang Tzu further stated: (I don't recall the translator.)

 

The Gate To The Secret Of All Life

 

Tao existed before time began; Tao is non-being and yet when Tao manifests itself it has substance. Time began when Tao manifested itself. Time represents the changes in the manifestations of Tao. Tao has substance but is not confined in space; it has length, but is not confined in distance. Having substance and yet being not confined; --having length and yet being without source--. And so there is appearance and disappearance, life and death. To appear and disappear without showing its form; --that is the Gate to the Secret of all Life. The Gate to the Secret of all Life signifies the return to the state of non-being. All things come from and return to non-being.

 

That's all there is to it. Don't add anything to it, don't leave anything out.

 

Be well!

[findley]

I'm more concerned that findley was "..." and hance has been here for a long time without much change.

 

As far as false ways go. I would like to know what he has been practicing in that time span

 

The personal practice section and intro in lobby throws much light.

 

 

-Yes, Mal, I have practiced for enlightenment, transcendence, and evolution for a long time. My practice began, originally, when I was 16 and I read the Tao Te Ching. Unfortunately after that, I was impressed by Qi-gong, and fell into the cult of energetic arts, starting from Mantak Chia. Tantra, kundalini, nei gong, qigong... I am still so young, but have spent years dedicated to these sorts of practices. And they got me no-where.

 

CHia is a fraud, Winn is a wacko; kundalini yoga is a scam, Tantra and SKF lead you no-where.

 

Kunlun may be a powerful practice, and I may had only practiced it for a couple of months, (however averaging several hours a day,) --but it is still yet only an energetic practice. Kunlun'ers will believe whatever they are told-- for example, that it is NOT a qi-cultivation practice. (If I do it for 10 seconds, it is a qi-cultivation practice ! How different is it, from embracing the tree? -embracing the tree, that is taught as "filling the cup"?)

 

I am tired of being lied to, and of being sucked into these lies by people like most folk on taobums. I'm going back to as simple and fundamental a practice as possible-- that was subtly taught in the Tao Te Ching, and few other taoist alchemical texts. I'm weeding out all the corruption from my practice.

 

And this is something I am just beginning.

 

P.S. thank you for the criticism, mal ! You haven't gotten very far, either !

[Ryan T.]

And this is something I am just beginning.

 

And yet you speak as if you have it ALL figured out. You come off dogmatic and rude, and then no wonder when people wield the same energy back towards you. Which in case you missed the crux of the TTC, avoiding these types of conflicts should be an outcome of Taoist practice, IMO.

 

Whether Kunlun is the practice for you or not does not mean it is not the practice that gets another further down their own path.

 

That is awesome that you have realized what is and is not working for you. But that hardly means that you have all the answers. I don't know if anyone on this forum does.

[phore]

kunlun was a great way to get in touch with the mystery

[thelerner]

I certainly haven't been a beacon of love and kindness lately(ie posts to Firedragon)but one thing I've noticed about Mal's writing, particularly in the last few months is that they do contain so much positive energy. There's a buoyant sense to them, genuinely supportive and open.

 

I see that attitude in many people here. I think that is as much a goal (if it can done genuinely) as any I've seen here, be they enlightenment or energetic.

 

 

 

Michael

[Machin Shin]

Historically the mysterious pass was where Lao Tzu went after being expelled from the Imperial City. All his friends in the library where heard to say

 

"Where did he go?'

 

Even his best Friend was quite confounded and stated "I think that I shall try to understand and find my friend. But If I get lost, fellow scholars I'll leave little notes about the mystery... along the way."

[markern]

-Yes, Mal, I have practiced for enlightenment, transcendence, and evolution for a long time. My practice began, originally, when I was 16 and I read the Tao Te Ching. Unfortunately after that, I was impressed by Qi-gong, and fell into the cult of energetic arts, starting from Mantak Chia. Tantra, kundalini, nei gong, qigong... I am still so young, but have spent years dedicated to these sorts of practices. And they got me no-where.

 

CHia is a fraud, Winn is a wacko; kundalini yoga is a scam, Tantra and SKF lead you no-where.

 

 

These practices got YOU nowhere but has definitively gotten others somewhere.

 

I know a buddhist monk that got stream entry (first enlightenment) but lost it again (not uncommon and his enlightenement was recognized by his teachers) but then got back to exactly the same place through Chias stuff.

[Marblehead]

Historically the mysterious pass was where Lao Tzu went after being expelled from the Imperial City. All his friends in the library where heard to say

 

"Where did he go?'

 

Even his best Friend was quite confounded and stated "I think that I shall try to understand and find my friend. But If I get lost, fellow scholars I'll leave little notes about the mystery... along the way."

 

Hi Machin,

 

I don't question the above. However, I think this is called 'adding to'. Not our fault necessarily, it's just the way myths are created.

 

Be well!

Edited August 7, 2009 by Marblehead