KUNLUN IS A FALSE WAY

[Machin Shin]

it's just the way myths are created.

 

That's what was poured into me. "Mao shan teaches Thunder magics. Kunlun shan is the stuff of Myths."

 

The dreams last night were quite interesting I was on a train full of people during the ethnic cleansing of WWII. Then images were blended into a amphitheater of people holding hands but facing towards the top. They were looking up and out, not down and in as usual.

 

Two large groups of people heading somewhere.

 

Then into consciousness carried by meditation and seeing others with lightbodies searching for things in the dark.

Much like fish in the deep sea that bioluminescence.

 

Deep sea...much pressure... very cold ......totally foreign

[findley]

GOD!

-And, please, keep wondering why I am getting so upset !

 

" And yet you speak as if you have it ALL figured out. You come off dogmatic and rude, and then no wonder when people wield the same energy back towards you. "

 

-Perhaps I am speaking as if I have figured SOMETHING out, ryan ! I come off dogmatic and rude, because I feel as though I am speaking to the same folk who have helped sucked hundreds and hundreds of hours out of my life, dedicated to practices that do not lead to enlightenment.

 

"Whether Kunlun is the practice for you or not does not mean it is not the practice that gets another further down their own path. "

 

Perhaps it is a lie in general-- and cultish practices just like this one have BLINDED me from a more genuine path.

 

"That is awesome that you have realized what is and is not working for you. But that hardly means that you have all the answers. I don't know if anyone on this forum does."

 

You know, I think that you are an excellent progenitor of 'cult-think,' ryan. 'ALL THE ANSWERS' ?? COME ON ! WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU ? You know, YOU sound like you have all the answers, Ryan !

 

 

You know, I may not be the most friendly poster on these boards-- and perhaps I have not mastered the wisdom of the Tao Te Ching-- but let me tell you, at least I am not contriving to act or behave a certain, even 'enlightened' way.

 

 

"I know a buddhist monk that got stream entry (first enlightenment) but lost it again (not uncommon and his enlightenement was recognized by his teachers) but then got back to exactly the same place through Chias stuff."

 

-Right, OK-- whatever dude. I know of a guy, who said that there was this one guy, who disappeared in a Starbucks. Buddhist monks earning there second go at enlightenment through Chia's material. I am stamping that statement: CULT.

 

And it is worthless !

 

How about conversations wherein it is the PHILOSOPHY, SPIRITUAL PRACTICE, and genuine PERSONAL EXPERIENCE that is discussed-- not hearsay and 'ooohs' and 'aaahs' about ridiculous STORIES.

[Marblehead]

That's what was poured into me. "Mao shan teaches Thunder magics. Kunlun shan is the stuff of Myths."

 

The dreams last night were quite interesting I was on a train full of people during the ethnic cleansing of WWII. Then images were blended into a amphitheater of people holding hands but facing towards the top. They were looking up and out, not down and in as usual.

 

Two large groups of people heading somewhere.

 

Then into consciousness carried by meditation and seeing others with lightbodies searching for things in the dark.

Much like fish in the deep sea that bioluminescence.

 

Deep sea...much pressure... very cold ......totally foreign

 

Hi Machin,

 

Okay, we are nearing an understanding. I must say at this point that I do not hold to the concepts of magic or supernatural of any form. That said ...

 

There is nothing wrong (inherently) with dreams, visions, illusions. The thing is, when we start believing that these dreams, visions and illusions are somehow reality it is called a delusion. Delusions are bad.

 

So we are told to look to nature, to understand the natrual processes. If we do this there would be no need for myth, magic or supernatural. Cause and effect rule!

 

Yes, it is good to imagine. Progress comes from imagining something better even though it doesn't yet exist except as a concept in the mind.

 

Be well!

 

 

Hi Findley,

 

I know that you started this thread and that is good. And no, I am not ignoring your posts. It is just that there is a lot being said that I just cannot respond constructively to.

 

But please, keep on keepin' on. We all are here trying to clarify our thoughts, learn something and perhaps help someone else along 'their' way.

 

Be well!

[Ryan T.]

 

Perhaps it is a lie in general-- and cultish practices just like this one have BLINDED me from a more genuine path.

 

 

Perhaps it is your anger that is keeping you from seeing the path. I am just observing what I am seeing in your posts and the reaction to them. And you seem to get more and more angry.

 

Maybe you are just angry because you spent time on a practice that 1)was not the practice for you or 2)you just aren't ready for because you are so angry.

 

Honestly, I don't think that I know everything. I know little of what there is to know.

 

But I sure don't get angry about words typed in a forum or start insulting people because of those words.

[gendao]

I'm going back to as simple and fundamental a practice as possible-- that was subtly taught in the Tao Te Ching, and few other taoist alchemical texts.

Can you describe your simplified practice now, in nuts & bolts terms?

[Guest winpro07]

Edited August 7, 2009 by winpro07

[findley]

Can you describe your simplified practice now, in nuts & bolts terms?

 

I am offended, vortex, that this is the second time you have asked a question in which you seem to be trying to trick me into giving a poor answer. It didn't work the first time, it's not going to work this time-- will you try again a third time? -Why do you choose to try and be 'cunning', instead of being straight-forward? -There must be something you are trying to prove...?

 

I am just simply trying to study the classic literature, and get used to the Mysterious Pass.

 

I don't think there are too many 'technicalities' involved past this point. The 'Nuts' and 'Bolts' you are implicating, may involve a relatively scientific pursuit of the study and practice; doing my best to avoid 'cult-think', and doing my best to recognize the pitfalls of oblivion, and any conceptualizations of the Mysterious Pass. However, this is more of an attitude-- no formalized 'technique' to be employed in the actual 'practice'.

 

[Aetherous]

Perhaps it is a lie in general-- and cultish practices just like this one have BLINDED me from a more genuine path.

 

I said this same thing a few months ago. I wish you luck on your path, and I know you know what you're doing.

_/\_

[Biff]

EDIT: Out of respect to others and I have removed my comments.

Edited August 9, 2009 by Biff

[Aetherous]

EVERYONE,

 

Here is the insult policy for this forum:

 

Here is a repost of our insult policy, please read it and abide by it:

 

No personal insults.

 

It is totally fine to vocally disagree with a person's opinion, technique, politics, approach, lifestyle choice, etc.

 

But no insulting (or links to attacks) of individuals, nationalities, genders, political preferences, lifestyle choices, etc.

 

While I don't personally have a problem with all kinds of language and abuse, many here do. Be respectful, and disagree in a non insulting way. Don't ruin this good forum, where people don't want to come here because of all the slander.

 

An example of an insult: calling someone a "Dickweed." Or saying "say hi to your mom from me."

 

Besides, if that's how you're speaking you obviously need more time meditating. It's a good reminder to keep at your own practice if you find yourself acting this way.

[Old Man Contradiction]

Chapter 3 of Hua Hu Ching by Lao Tzu:

 

Those who wish to embody the Tao should embrace all things. To embrace all things means first that one holds no anger or resistance toward any idea or thing, living or dead, formed or formless. Acceptance is the very essence of the Tao. To embrace all things means also that one rids oneself of any concept of separation; male and female, self and other, life and death. Division is contrary to the nature of the Tao. Foregoing antagonism and separation, one enters in the harmonious oneness of all things.

 

Findley, does your deeper self see through the ego that has created this thread out of resistance toward the idea of kunlun, and the resistance to all of the people here. By rejecting these forms, you are rejecting the Tao. When in truth, acceptance is the very essence of the Tao.

Edited August 7, 2009 by Old Man Contradiction

[gendao]

I am offended, vortex, that this is the second time you have asked a question in which you seem to be trying to trick me into giving a poor answer. It didn't work the first time, it's not going to work this time-- will you try again a third time? -Why do you choose to try and be 'cunning', instead of being straight-forward? -There must be something you are trying to prove...?

No, I'm simply asking what your practice is, because I honestly don't know.

 

And your explanations seem more like riddles than explanations. A formless form that you can't find if you look for it??? Well, pardon me if that doesn't quite answer my questions...lol.

 

If it is that unfindable, than how did you find it? Or what actual practice are you doing to find it, without looking? How can you find it without looking for it? That's my question.

Edited August 7, 2009 by vortex

[sean]

Findley and Biff, one more personal insult and you are both taking a break from TTB for awhile.

 

Sean

[Biff]

EDIT: Out of respect to others and I have removed my comments.

Edited August 9, 2009 by Biff

[Magitek]

Findley, I am very much enjoying your posts....

 

Biff, is your only purpose to discredit Finley? Do you practice kunlun? Why can people not talk against practices? They demand your money and your time, basically your life, it is like joining a religion. Lets not turn Taobums into a commercial forum.... What the point it that?

[findley]

LOL magitek, thank you !

 

I usually am just insulting to a prove a point in regards to dogmatism. Though, in this thread I have been relaying a sense of deep-seated hatred and resentment to others whom I believe fail to be logical in regards to their pursuits. I am further encouraged by the idea that any who should promote and defend a practice, are responsible, (read: guilty,) for influencing others into their 'cult-think'.

I do not usually believe in control, or contrivance of behavior-- even when such entails mimic'ing characteristics 'enlightenment'.

 

If you notice reading through this thread, the attacks against me are made on a personal level, against my character, my history, or so on-- and they have failed entirely to level themselves to relevant discussion of the topic at hand. (which has been mostly ignored.)

 

Vortex, in that case, I am sorry. I am sure you will understand if I have been put into a bad mood. I am sorry, I cannot explain the mysterious pass any further, only suggest you experiment and study classic texts I refer to. It is, indeed though, a 'practice that is not a practice'.

[Biff]

EDIT: Out of respect to others and I have removed my comments.

Edited August 9, 2009 by Biff

[thelerner]

Once again a Kunlun discussion goes down in flames

.........................History inexorably repeats itself

 

[Ryan T.]

Once again a Kunlun discussion goes down in flames

.........................History inexorably repeats itself

 

 

Not exactly what I would call a discussion.

 

But definitely down in flames.

[Marblehead]

 

.........................History inexorably repeats itself

 

 

Isn't that more at people continually fail to learn from their's and others' mistakes?

 

This is why observation and awareness are so very important, IMO.

 

Be well!

[Magitek]

Once again a Kunlun discussion goes down in flames

 

Lets have a phoenix rise out of the ashes. This thread owns!

[Old Man Contradiction]

If you notice reading through this thread, the attacks against me are made on a personal level, against my character, my history, or so on-- and they have failed entirely to level themselves to relevant discussion of the topic at hand. (which has been mostly ignored.)

 

You must have missed my post. Without attacking you I stated the facts of your interaction in this thread. I thought that maybe by showing you your behavior in the context of the Hua Hu Ching, maybe you would see your departure from the Tao while you were writing your posts.

 

I personally think that if Kunlun causes bliss, there is a chance that it shows the way. If the bliss causes that person's mind to silence, enter into the body and senses, and connect with the inner infinite..... than why wouldn't this grow and awaken them? The first reason that comes to mind is if they failed to place there finger on the quality of being that is actually causing the awakening. That, I think, would be the only exception.

 

On the other end, it isn't hard to attach to bliss. and bliss does not guarantee awakening. So, I believe it is less about kunlun, and more about the individual's degree of presence.

 

Lets have a phoenix rise out of the ashes. This thread owns!

 

hahaha

[findley]

Ah, well old man, I ignored your posts because the 'facts' regarding my behavior are still irrelevant regarding the topic of discussion.

I do fail to meet the behavioral standards of the sage, and I am not enlightened. I would be further back along the way if I tried to mimic the sage.

 

Perhaps you are right. I would still yet support energetic practices, however merely as supplementary practices-- not as ways unto enlightenment in themselves. (wherein lies their great fault; Chia's systems may offer a temporal advantage in regards to health, [efficient or not,] however it was also presented as a means to enlightenment and immortality.)

 

If there is an energetic system that is presented as a 'complete' system of enlightenment, however does not touch upon the concept of the Mysterious Pass-- I am here charging that they are fraudulent ways, established and perpetuated by fools and liars.

 

I suppose that it is very possible for an energetic practice to enhance the practitioners capacity to recognize the Mysterious Pass-- however I find that it is the case, that they instead tend to BLIND the practitioner from the genuine path.

 

To illustrate with an example: it is my opinion that Zen practitioners are actually less likely to recognize the Mysterious Pass, because they are more likely to CLING to zen traditions, rituals, and 'emptiness'.

It is like this.

[Old Man Contradiction]

I do fail to meet the behavioral standards of the sage, and I am not enlightened. I would be further back along the way if I tried to mimic the sage.

 

.....

If there is an energetic system that is presented as a 'complete' system of enlightenment, however does not touch upon the concept of the Mysterious Pass-- I am here charging that they are fraudulent ways, established and perpetuated by fools and liars.

 

I suppose that it is very possible for an energetic practice to enhance the practitioners capacity to recognize the Mysterious Pass-- however I find that it is the case, that they instead tend to BLIND the practitioner from the genuine path.

 

Mimicking a sage.... like, "I will display only sage-like behavior, but behind screen, my actions are ego driven". This I believe you when you say it would bring some one farther back. But also at the same time, the beginning sage's state of Being that is full of heart, no-mind, and presence... it lies dormant in everyone. Everyday I forget to let that Being-ness awaken in me as I live and act in the world, but what matters is when I do let my ego die, and then naturally that presence awakens.

 

 

Unfortunately, what you said rings true with me. Energy work guaranteeing enlightenment, I have questions. But in Yogic systems, it is the energy that connects earth and heaven, through man, in a balanced whole. Form and formless, unmanifest and manifest. This shines thru the mind, and is reflected into the world as an enlightened Being. I believe that is what Kundalini Yoga is all about, even though I don't know because I haven't mastered it. Also, Yoga asks for the intention and meditation too if I'm not mistaken....

 

In some martial arts, Wu Wei, no-mind, and bodily presence is the beginning of spiritual evolution. Later, the mysterious pass is actualized through a deepening of awareness. I'm only a beginner, and haven't realized this myself, I've seen glimpses and openings that continue to grow. The thing is though, my teacher is using the language of muscle, skeleton, focus, attention, and science. The manifest form of the unmanifested formless. This is a perfect starting point I believe.

 

If an individual takes on a practice, and strives and strives to deepen his awareness in whatever discipline he chooses, than I believe there is always the chance that he will find the truth. Just IMHO.

Edited August 8, 2009 by Old Man Contradiction

[Aetherous]

I also question whether energy work brings real enlightenment.