The Prince and the Magician

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

"Reality is that which,

when you stop believing in it,

doesn't go away."

-- Philip K. Dick

 

 

 

 

 

The Prince and the Magician

 

 

 

Once upon a time there was a young prince, who believed in all things but three. He did not believe in princesses, he did not believe in islands, he did not believe in God. His father, the King, told him that such things did not exist. As there were no princesses or islands in his father's domaines, and no sign of God, the young prince believed his father.

 

But then, one day, the prince ran away from his palace. He came to the next land. There, to his astonishment, from every coast he saw islands, and on these islands, strange and troubling creatures whom he dared not name. As he was searching for a boat, a man in full evening dress approached him along the shore.

 

"Are those real islands?" asked the young prince.

 

"Of course they are real islands," said the man in evening dress.

 

"And those strange and troubling creatures?"

 

"They are all genuine and authentic princesses."

 

"Then God must also exist!" cried the prince.

 

"I am God," replied the man in full evening dress, with a bow.

 

The young prince returned home as quickly as he could.

 

"So you are back," said his father, the King.

 

"I have seen islands, I have seen princesses, I have seen God," said the prince reproachfully.

 

The king was unmoved.

 

"Neither real islands, nor real princesses, nor a real God, exist."

 

"I saw them!"

 

"Tell me how God was dressed."

 

"God was in full evening dress."

 

"Were the sleeves of his coat rolled back?"

 

The prince remembered that they had been. The king smiled.

 

"That is the uniform of a magician. You have been deceived."

 

At this, the prince returned to the next land, and went to the same shore, where he once again came upon the man in full evening dress.

 

"My father the king has told me who you are," said the young prince indignantly. "You deceived me last time, but not again. Now I know that those are not real islands and real princesses, because you are a magician."

 

The man on the shore smiled.

 

"It is you who are deceived, my boy. In your father's kingdom there are many islands and many princesses. But you are under your father's spell, so you cannot see them."

 

The prince returned pensively home. When he saw his father, he looked him in the eyes.

 

"Father, is it true that you are not a real king, but only a magician?" The king smiled, and rolled back his sleeves.

 

"Yes, my son, I am only a magician."

 

"Then the man on the shore was God."

 

"The man on the shore was another magician."

 

"I must know the real truth, the truth beyond magic."

 

"There is no truth beyond magic," said the king.

 

The prince was full of sadness.

 

He said, "I will kill myself."

 

The king by magic caused death to appear. Death stood in the door and beckoned to the prince. The prince shuddered. He remembered the beautiful but unreal islands and the unreal but beautiful princesses.

 

"Very well," he said. "I can bear it."

 

"You see, my son," said the king, "you too now begin to become a magician."

 

-- From "The Magus" by John Fowles

Edited August 11, 2009 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[Sloppy Zhang]

That was cool

 

Seriously, I liked that

 

(really, I'm not trying to be sarcastic)

[Vajrahridaya]

Indeed! That is cool. I've read that story before though...

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

[Marblehead]

Hi TheSongsofDistantEarth,

 

Nice little story. I had not read it before. And, I really don't read much of that stuff anymore. When I was a teenager (a long time ago) I used to read a lot of Greek Mythology.

 

Be well!

[Tao99]

I am stupid. I don't get it. What is the moral of the story? Since you want to argue with me, make your simple point. You sure do like to argue with others.

[Vajrahridaya]

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

I am stupid. I don't get it. What is the moral of the story? Since you want to argue with me, make your simple point. You sure do like to argue with others.

 

 

 

he he he...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

[Tao99]

All who are stupid are incapable of seeing the point and so should be excluded from the list.

prior quote: "I am stupid."

--------------------------- therefore --------------------------------------------------

conclusion: I should be excluded from the list.

 

 

Unfortunately I can't argue with that logic

Edited August 10, 2009 by Tao99

[phore]

ive seen it before. It sums up my basic theory of life.

[nac]

Wow, I'm famous!

 

PS. Yes, I've heard that story before. And the quote too, I've read every sentence ever published by Philip K. Dick. Several times. It's what got me interested in Buddhism in the first place. I wanted to find out what exactly does not go away when once you stop believing in it.

Edited August 10, 2009 by nac

[Old Man Contradiction]

This story was posted here about a year ago. You can also find it at the beginning of Richard Bandler/John Grinder's "The Structure Of Magic" for those who think they may have seen it before.

 

I love it, it reminds me of Futurama's quote from god,"If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all." The message I picked up was that once you realize your illusions, you rise above them just as the magicians had. So, the prince is now becoming a magician.

[Marblehead]

But then this is why the world remained flat for so many years.

 

'Tis true that we create our own reality. But then, if we only listen to what others say we will never know for sure, will we?

 

There truely is a manifest reality out there, regardless of what anyone says. We can either stay home and be another herd animal or we can jump in a boat and explore for ourself. Oh, sure, we might fall off the edge of their flat earth but that doesn't really matter - maybe there is an island of paradise out there waiting for me.

 

Be well!

[nac]

"We create our own reality" is a very bad way to phrase it. The phenomena which come in contact with our senses consist of many different layers. Some are objective phenomena, some subjective. Some aspects depend on own point of view, some do not, and so forth. Find out how much "can't be helped" and what can, on your own. Never think "I have reached it: the Truth with a capital T". The moment you begin thinking like that, know that you're falling back into illusory mental states.

[Marblehead]

"We create our own reality" is a very bad way to phrase it. ... Never think "I have reached it: the Truth with a capital T". The moment you begin thinking like that, know that you're falling back into illusory mental states.

 

Ah! But I love the reality I have created for myself! As long as I am in "my space" my reality applies. When I leave "my space" all the other's realities need be considered.

 

Truth? What's that? I, personally, have no idea. (Well, except for things like when I sit at the computer the truth that my chair exists has always been proven to be true.)

 

Yes, I have created my own reality. No, I'm not delusional. I know that my reality applies to me only. Others have their own reality. (Some are delusional too!!!!!)

 

Be well!

[nac]

Ah! But I love the reality I have created for myself! As long as I am in "my space" my reality applies. When I leave "my space" all the other's realities need be considered.

 

Truth? What's that? I, personally, have no idea. (Well, except for things like when I sit at the computer the truth that my chair exists has always been proven to be true.)

 

Yes, I have created my own reality. No, I'm not delusional. I know that my reality applies to me only. Others have their own reality. (Some are delusional too!!!!!)

 

Be well!

That's the solipsistic attitude at the other extreme from the common-sense point of view. The Truth, if there is such a thing, is certainly more nuanced and should lie somewhere in between.

[Marblehead]

That's the solipsistic attitude at the other extreme from the common-sense point of view. The Truth, if there is such a thing, is certainly more nuanced and should lie somewhere in between.

 

Hehehe. I love my attitude too!

 

Isn't common sense limited to common people? (Herd mentality?)

 

BTW I'm not searching for Truth. Sheeeesssse! I don't even know what Truth and Enlightenment are.

 

Be well!

[phore]

Ah! But I love the reality I have created for myself! As long as I am in "my space" my reality applies. When I leave "my space" all the other's realities need be considered.

 

Truth? What's that? I, personally, have no idea. (Well, except for things like when I sit at the computer the truth that my chair exists has always been proven to be true.)

 

Yes, I have created my own reality. No, I'm not delusional. I know that my reality applies to me only. Others have their own reality. (Some are delusional too!!!!!)

 

Be well!

what chair?

[Mal]

what chair?

 

[Marblehead]

Yeah. I figured you Buddhists would eventually come in and suggest that my chair is only an illusion. Hehehe.

 

But I can assure you, 'my illusional chair' really exists. There are even some cat claw marks on it verifying the not only the chair exists but also that I have cats who love to scratch up my furniture.

 

BTW I live in the deep south of the US. I have seen some of those repaired chairs. Hehehe.

 

Be well!

[nac]

Hehehe. I love my attitude too!

 

Isn't common sense limited to common people? (Herd mentality?)

 

BTW I'm not searching for Truth. Sheeeesssse! I don't even know what Truth and Enlightenment are.

 

Be well!

 

That's of course your prerogative. There's no reason to search for truth, except when you get tired of the lies. As for enlightenment, I don't know what that is either. You may have misunderstood something however, I'm not trying to convert anyone to Buddhism.

 

Buddhists don't believe that everything is an illusion. That's a common misunderstanding. Buddhists try to transcend vague generalizations like eternalism (everything exists) and nihilism (nothing exists) to look for a meaningful way to relate to the world. "How it's like" may be out there, but the established fact is, there's no objective way of experiencing it directly. So saying IT IS out there is just as meaningless as saying there's nothing's out there.

 

I say this as a hardcore rationalist and a strong supporter of scientific inquiry, who's gotten into fights here for taking the side of mainstream science over methods like energy healing, etc. The inescapable point remains however, that the idea "all things exist" (pure Existentialism) is a flawed philosophy because it trails off into pointless metaphysics: What exactly does it mean to insist that everything exists when the existentia cannot be sensed in the first place? This isn't something only Buddhists have come up with, but philosophers throughout history all over the world. Sorry, but I'm afraid you may not know what you're arguing against from the religious angle and possibly the philosophical side as well. Tao knows I'm no philosophy expert either, but you should at least read up the basics before leveling bare assertions.

 

But I can assure you, 'my illusional chair' really exists.

How do I know that? I can't see your chair. For that matter, how can you be sure that I'm sitting on a chair and not (say) a bed or something? Remember, the sort of measurement you get depends on the construction of your measuring instrument, and since the nature of the universe is such that all things can't be known at once, it's unknowable as a whole. You shouldn't over-infer from no data.

 

Be well!

[Marblehead]

Hi Nac,

 

Please, Please, Please, never think that I am arguing against any belief system. I rarely am aware of what is best for myself. How could I ever suggest that I know what is best for someone else?

 

During the early phases of my search for a path I did a fair amount of reading of Buddhist literature. It was very attractive. I almost stopped there but it seemed that there was something missing; something that wasn't me. Buddhism really is a beautiful philosophy/religion.

 

However, for myself, I prefer the path that I have been walking for these many years, and that is Philosophical Taoism.

 

 

No, I don't know that you exist. Therefore, if you don't exist you would never be able to see me or my chair. I do know that I am communicating with someone via the computer and this forum of this site. I am not imagining all this.

 

True, the person you say you are could be sitting on a bed with a laptop on their legs. You could be male or female human being. (I don't think you would be an octopus.) (Sorry, that just slipped in.)

 

I will also assure you that I do not even attempt to know everything. I hold to the concept that the more we learn the more we realize we don't know. So if I tried to continue gaining knowledge I would eventually turn into a blooming idiot who knows nothing.

 

Hey! Come to think about it. If we know nothing we will never be decieved. Hehehe.

 

But my Taoist teachings tell me that I am supposed to observe and be aware - that there are processes in the universe and if I try to live within the limitations of these processes my life will be a lot easier. I like easy.

 

Be well!

[Vajrahridaya]

Yeah. I figured you Buddhists would eventually come in and suggest that my chair is only an illusion. Hehehe.

 

 

It's not an illusion, it's just only a chair conventionally. It's really made of different materials, workmanship, particles, atoms, etc.

 

I don't believe in illusion, only delusional thinking. Nothing is what it is in and of itself.

[Old Man Contradiction]

"Everything is an illusion."

 

When an illusionist shows you that he is sawing his young attractive assistant in half with a chain saw while she is in a box. The box is real, the saw is real, the girl is real, but yet it's all part of the illusion. The only false part of this illusion is the prosthetic legs, which are still present, sticking out the end of the box. The truth of this illusion, is that her real legs are actually stowed away behind smoke and mirrors.

 

The illusion is that you are an ego inhabiting a body, and that's the end of the story. When in truth there is an ego inhabiting a body, but your true self is stowed away behind the smoke and mirrors of drama, desire, attachment etc.

 

Another illusion is that the tree outside is inanimate. When the truth is that you and the tree have an incredible unmanifested depth. Every thing is an illusion.

[Marblehead]

It's not an illusion, it's just only a chair conventionally. It's really made of different materials, workmanship, particles, atoms, etc.

 

I don't believe in illusion, only delusional thinking. Nothing is what it is in and of itself.

 

There is the tricky part to this whole thing. I really do realize that the chair is made from various components. But, all things put into the chair, including the idea, components, workmanship, etc. produce an end item I call chair.

 

If we take the chair apart we no longer have a chair. We have pieces and parts; we have lost the essence of the chair.

 

Kinda' like the story of the sow (female pig). The sow had a litter of piglets. All was going fine until the sow took sick and died. For a few hours the piglets continued suckling but soon realized that their mother was no longer complete. She had lost her true essence even though all the physical parts were still there. Upon the realization they ignored the dead sow.

 

What we (people) are is a collection of atoms. The collection is special and unique for each of us. These atoms are real. In their unique configuration they produce the possibility for a life form. But without its essence (I like to call this our Life Force) the collection of atoms does not produce a living human being. I have seen people walking around even though they are already dead because they have lost their essence.

 

Be well!