Working Through Some Issues

[Erdrickgr]

One of things that I've been struggling with as I've read Taoist literature is the seemingly anti-intellectual tone that I run across at times. Here are examples of what I mean from the Tao Te Ching:

 

"The Master leads by emptying people's minds and filling their cores, by weakening their ambition and toughening their resolve. He helps people lose everything they know, everything they desire, and creates confusion in those who think that they know." - Tao Te Ching, 3

 

"In thinking, keep to the simple." - Tao Te Ching, 8

 

"Thoughts weaken the mind." - Tao Te Ching, 12

 

"Empty your mind of all thoughts." - Tao Te Ching, 16

 

"Throw away holiness and wisdom, and people will be a hundred times happier." - Tao Te Ching, 19

 

"Stop thinking, and end your problems... I am like an idiot, my mind is so empty." - Tao Te Ching, 20

 

"The Tao is ungraspable. How can her mind be at one with it? Because she doesn't cling to ideas." - Tao Te Ching, 21

 

"The greatest wisdom seems childish." - Tao Te Ching, 41

 

"The more you know, the less you understand." - Tao Te Ching, 47

 

"In pursuit of knowledge, every day something is added. In the practice of the Tao, every day something is dropped." - Tao Te Ching, 48

 

"If you close your mind in judgements and traffic with desires, your heart will be troubled. If you keep your mind from judging and aren't led by the senses, your heart will find peace." - Tao Te Ching, 52

 

"Let go of fixed plans and concepts, and the world will govern itself." - Tao Te Ching, 57

 

"The mark of a moderate man is freedom from his own ideas." - Tao Te Ching, 59

 

"Therefore the Master takes action by letting things take their course... what he learns is to unlearn." - Tao Te Ching, 64

 

"The ancient Masters didn't try to educate the people, but kindly taught them to not-know. When they think that they know the answers, people are difficult to guide. When they know that they don't know, people can find their own way." - Tao Te Ching, 65

 

"I have just three things to teach: simplicity, patience, compassion. These three are your greatest treasures. Simple in actions and in thoughts,

you return to the source of being." - Tao Te Ching, 67

 

"Not-knowing is true knowledge. Presuming to know is a disease. First realize that you are sick; then you can move toward health." - Tao Te Ching, 71

 

If what books like the Tao Te Ching say about the Tao and knowledge and such is true, then I can understand the statements above. But I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around ideas like: "the more you know, the less you understand". I've spent most of my adult life as a truth seeker, and that has always meant to me that I should be seeking more knowledge, examining what I believe, coming to conclusions, etc. But Taoism seems to be asking me to do the opposite of what I've intuitively done over the years: to stop focuing on my question asking and investigating, and simply accept or simply be. Do I have that right, or have I gone off track here? And if you've found yourself having similar issues, how have you tried to resolve the problems?

[King Kabalabhati]

You can rest assured many of those sayings are simply utterances (perhaps from enlightened beings) that describe a feeling or thought that cannot be described, at least in English

 

Leave excess philosophy, seek theory and practice so maybe you can one day throw a new "deep" one-liner yourself

Edited August 10, 2009 by King Kabalabhati

[de_paradise]

Remember that Taoists are not trying to solve problems of life, but to return to the source. Its easier to look at these phrases as guidance in technique. You can use your mind as a tool in the goal of returning to the source, by divesting it of concepts and calculations. The cognitive thinking function of the mind gets in the way of the place your mind should be (empty) so that it can be a tool towards your enlightenment.

 

What trips up people when they look at the phrases is they dont realize that letting go and forgetting is a way to accelerate the very real physiological evolution of one's body and mind (jing-qi-shen), many people think of these phrases as simply advice or some cognitive movement to help them overcome their life's stress. The phrases are often served up in a way so they are more attractive to people's desire to help them solve their problems, but in actuality, if you look at them as technology to evolve--which is a long term goal--not a short term mental massage or knowlege, then eventually jing will transform, you will begin to feel what qi is, etc.

Edited August 10, 2009 by de_paradise

[Old Man Contradiction]

Simply put, thought forms get in the way of experiencing the world. Rather than seeing the beauty within the tree, you are thinking about how beautiful the tree is. You have left the moment you were experiencing and entered into the thought form,"That tree is beautiful".

 

The Tao can only be experienced and can not be conceptualized. That is why the more you know, the less you understand. This understanding is far more vast in depth than the mind could ever know. So trying to just gets in the way of the experience. It's important to know that the glimpsing of this experience, the Tao, over time grows and deepens. I'm still on the ripples of the surface, but every once in a while I go a little bit deeper into the ocean, only to float to the surface again. Good thing my lung capacity grows every time I go under though.

 

Reading Eckhart Tolle's "The Power Of Now" will help demystify the Tao Te Ching and get you started.

[Erdrickgr]

Thank you for the responses. After looking over some other translations, I think part of my problem was in what translation I was quoting from (Mitchell), as I only now see two passages which really reflect what I was talking about (20 and 47). I'll be sure to come back later today and reread the responses again, thanks!

[Mal]

If it helps I like this one. I too love books and reading about stuff. It is pretty much how our education system taught us to learn and what it rewards. The collection of knowledge rather than doing and understanding through practice.

 

The Wheel Maker Chuang tzu

One day, King Huan was reading a book while an old craftsman was busy making wheels over in a corner. The old man noticed that the book seemed to capture the King's complete attention. He grew increasingly curious about this, and after a while decided to approach.

 

"Your Majesty, forgive me for intruding," the old man said. "What is this book that you are studying so diligently?"

 

"This is no ordinary book," the King said, holding it up with great respect. "It is written by a wise sage."

 

The old man asked: "Is this sage still alive, Your Majesty?"

 

The King shook his head. "No, he passed away a long time ago."

 

"Oh, I see," the old man nodded. Then, without thinking, he added: "In that case, what Your Majesty is reading would simply be the leftovers of a dead man."

 

This struck the King as incredibly insulting. "What is this?" His anger flared. "You are nothing more than a lowly craftsman. Is it your place to comment on what I wish to read? Explain the reasoning of your statement and I may let you live. If you fail to do so, I shall have your head."

 

The old man replied: "Your Majesty, it is exactly as you say: I am but a humble craftsman. I know nothing except the art of making wheels. Permit me to explain myself to you using this little bit of knowledge that I have."

 

This response surprised the King. To him, making wheels and reading books could not be further apart. Had the old man lost his mind due to fear? King Huan was puzzled, but his interest was piqued. "Go on," he said.

 

"Your Majesty, in my line of work, the hole in the center is of supreme importance. It must fit the axle just right. If I make it too big, the wheel will slip right off and become useless. If it is only slightly too big, then the wheel will seem to stay on, but after a short while of actual usage on the roads, it will loosen and fall off the axle, quite possibly causing great damage to the carriage in the process.

 

"On the other hand, it is also possible to make the hole too small. In that case, when I force the axle into it, I may very well split the wheel in two, thus wasting hours of effort. If it is only slightly too small, then it may appear to be a secure fit, but after a short while of actual usage, the wheel will crack and break apart, again causing possible harm to the carriage and even the passengers within.

 

"Therefore, one secret of my trade is to know the right way to make the hole. But making the hole just right, not too big and not too small, requires years of non-stop practice. This experience gives me a feeling that guides my hand. It is a feeling I have learned to trust, for it is never wrong.

 

"The other secret of my trade has to do with the roundness of the wheel. If I chisel away at the wheel too quickly, I may be able to complete the work in a short time, but the wheel won't be perfectly round. Even though it may look quite acceptable upon casual inspection, in actual usage it will cause excessive shaking of the carriage. The ride will be extremely uncomfortable, and the wheel will damage itself beyond repair in a matter of days.

 

"Of course, I can chisel slowly and carefully. This guarantees a perfectly round wheel, but it will also take so much time to complete that Your Majesty would have to wait many years before we can assemble the royal fleet of carriages. Clearly, this would not be acceptable.

 

"In order to create the best wheels possible in a timely manner, I must chisel at just the right speed - not too fast and not too slow. This speed is also guided by a feeling, which again can only be acquired through many years of experience. With this feeling, I can be perfectly composed and unhurried when I make my wheels, but still complete the project on time.

 

"I can teach the mechanics of wheel making to anyone. It is easy to create something that looks like a wheel, but quite difficult to make wheels that are durable, safe, and provide a smooth ride. I can explain all of this to my son, but it is impossible for me to give him the feeling that is at the heart of the wheel making art. He must gain that on his own. This is why I am seventy years old and still making wheels.

 

"Your Majesty, the ancient sages possessed the feelings that were at the heart of their mastery. Using words, they could set down the mechanics of their mastery in the form of books, but just as it is impossible for me to pass on my experience to anyone else, it is equally impossible for them to transmit their essence of wisdom to you. Their feelings died when they passed away. The only things they left behind were their words. This is why I said Your Majesty was reading the leftovers of a dead man."

 

King Huan was stunned and speechless. Slowly, he lowered his hand and set the book down.

 

Different trans but it's all in here somewhere http://oaks.nvg.org/ys1ra5.html