Should a Taoist Forum focus primarily on Taoism?

[Sloppy Zhang]

On the other hand Daoists are much better with their body and in the bedroom.

 

oh snap

[Vajrahridaya]

 

On the other hand Daoists are much better with their body and in the bedroom.

 

Maybe in China but Vajrayana has Highest Yoga Tantra which includes sexual practices that lead to liberation. Certain Ngagpa's (lay tantric practictioners) of Tibet were able to give flesh initiation to women after women for day's, show them the nature of reality and not loose their seed (ejaculate) in the process, giving these women the type of orgasm that leads to spiritual awakening.

For an example check: "Laughing at the Tao". Although you might need to come over here, for the copy sold by amazon costs more than a year of 1 to 1 training with a lineage master.

 

Man, that looks interesting, but talk about costing an arm and a leg!

[Sloppy Zhang]

Maybe in China but Vajrayana has Highest Yoga Tantra which includes sexual practices that lead to liberation.

 

How did I know it would come down to this?

 

"I can last longer."

 

"Well I'm bigger."

 

"Well that's not what ur mom sed, lolz"

 

Certain Ngagpa's (lay tantric practictioners) of Tibet were able to give flesh initiation to women after women for day's, show them the nature of reality and not loose their seed (ejaculate) in the process, giving these women the type of orgasm that leads to spiritual awakening.

 

No offense to the venerable masters that have been teaching for generations out of lineages that are very well respected.... but that sounds sooooo much like a sex cult

 

"Hey, just step into my private quarters and let me show you the nature of reality. This will lead you to spiritual awakening. Really, just lay down right here....."

Edited August 12, 2009 by Sloppy Zhang

[Vajrahridaya]

 

No offense to the venerable masters that have been teaching for generations out of lineages that are very well respected.... but that sounds like a cult.

 

"Hey, just step into my private quarters and let me show you the nature of reality. This will lead you to spiritual awakening. Really, just lay down right here....."

 

Only to a scared Westerner who has immature ideas about sex.

 

Nope, it's a real deal thing in old Tibet. Nothing cultish about it. Just one of the many aspects of Vajrayana.

 

Of course if the guy ejaculated and the intention was just to have pleasure, then yes, that would be a mis-use of power.

 

Your of course welcome to your subjective opinion about it all.

[Stigweard]

I like the freedom in this forum and wouldn't advocate any restrictions.

 

Even when the forum was completely overrun with Kunlun and then Mak Ti Sin, and now one or two Buddhists who tired of the Buddhism forum. This forum tends to get wrapped up in fads or biases from time to time. It's nice to see how it develops and it's an opportunity to practice Wu Wei and sometimes learn something. Then there are always a few gems that pop up with beautiful insights. I suggest that you read what you want and skip the rest, it's not that difficult.

 

All religious traditions tend to bury the truth in mountains of wasted words piled on by generations of interpreters and wannabees. I don't care what flavor it is, they're all basically the same. The process of human thought creating different words trying to hint at the same underlying reality. I used to think I understood things, now I think I see the limitations of thought and that's enough.

 

I'm not an -ist of any sort. I'm with minkus.

These long-winded, analytical posts, be they Daoist or Buddhist, are either over my head or not terribly interesting to me lately. So many words, so little reality. They're really not the same, you know.

I just don't have the energy to devote to thinking or debating that much anymore.

I'm with you as always my friend

[Sunya]

So, what do you all think?

 

How about you contribute more than 3 posts to the forum before you worry about making moderating suggestions? lol!

 

 

Buddhists are the nerds, Taoists are the cool kids. But we're all in the same school cheating off of each other's shitty notes.

 

LOL

[Old Man Contradiction]

I'm not an -ist of any sort. I'm with minkus.

These long-winded, analytical posts, be they Daoist or Buddhist, are either over my head or not terribly interesting to me lately. So many words, so little reality. They're really not the same, you know.

I just don't have the energy to devote to thinking or debating that much anymore.

 

This was taken to heart

[Pietro]

How about you contribute more than 3 posts to the forum before you worry about making moderating suggestions? lol!

 

I don't know who the guy is, but generally when I see someone post as their first post something that is either in moderation, or an advanced but embarassing question, I usually think it's a long term member that is wearing a mask not to show that he is bothered by certain people, or that he hasn't reached certain attaimnents that the community might think he has. There is a lot of face, and loss of face, involved in this community.

 

"Well that's not what ur mom sed, lolz"

 

More like:

"...so you father said that he could do it for hours and never ejaculate, and that how you were born"

 

;-)

[Pietro]

Maybe in China

 

Yes in China. I am not discussing individual attainment from this or that practitioner, more like the role that eventually in society the group of people were covering.

 

but Vajrayana has ...

 

I just love how those ego liberated respond to a bit of ego poking.

 

Man, that looks interesting, but talk about costing an arm and a leg!

Actually is very repetitive. Each chapter is of the structure:

We know from this and this teaost book that ...

and then from this taoist book that ...

I laugh at that and...

and then he sums up the believes, and find how they lead to inconsistent or problematic world view.

 

AFter a few chapters you usually put it down.

 

One was:

-we know from this book that Lao Tzu's head is this star (A)

-we know from this other book that Lao Tzu's foot is this other star (,

-I laugh at this and recall that we know from this and this that star A is nearer the ground than start B, (now criminal were usually being left hanging by the feet as part of their punishment) so I wonder what had Lao Tzu has done to be so punished.

 

I don't remember how many chapter, but it's quite a big book. It was written by one of the emperor helpers when the emperor was interested in making the whole empire Taoist. The emperor was so angry he ordered the destruction of all the books (some obviously survived). But the helper was lucky to come out with his head still attached to his neck. Some years later the taoist responded to that book, but by then the emperor had decided not to make taoism that important in society.

 

In any case my copy of the book (bought when it was not that expensive) is now in Italy. I will bring it to Portugal with all my other Tao books. Then you are welcome to visit me any time you want. You can also stay here for some time, and relax and meditate in Portugues countryside.

[Vajrahridaya]

 

I just love how those ego liberated respond to a bit of ego poking.

 

 

Regardless of your interpretation of my ego, assumptions should be corrected. See through the appearance of ego and see the truth. Ego see's ego and truth see's truth, seeing right through the ego. Which there is plenty of to see through...

 

 

In any case my copy of the book (bought when it was not that expensive) is now in Italy. I will bring it to Portugal with all my other Tao books. Then you are welcome to visit me any time you want. You can also stay here for some time, and relax and meditate in Portugues countryside.

 

I don't really care much about the book. I care more about the offer to be in Portugal? Is there space for my girlfriend? We are very free spirited people and love to laugh and play!!

 

I'm sure the book is bias. I see nothing wrong with Taoism and see it as a healing and good practice. I'm just not convinced that it's a complete path to liberation in and of it's entire expression. Not that people attain liberation regardless of environmental or religious conditions as the causes for liberation have to do with internal interpretation of experiencing. Thus far it just seems that Buddhism has the entire circle completed in method and philosophy within it's many, many approaches and it's complete understanding of relativity.

[DalTheJigsaw123]

I like the freedom in this forum and wouldn't advocate any restrictions.

 

Even when the forum was completely overrun with Kunlun and then Mak Ti Sin, and now one or two Buddhists who tired of the Buddhism forum. This forum tends to get wrapped up in fads or biases from time to time. It's nice to see how it develops and it's an opportunity to practice Wu Wei and sometimes learn something. Then there are always a few gems that pop up with beautiful insights. I suggest that you read what you want and skip the rest, it's not that difficult.

 

All religious traditions tend to bury the truth in mountains of wasted words piled on by generations of interpreters and wannabees. I don't care what flavor it is, they're all basically the same. The process of human thought creating different words trying to hint at the same underlying reality. I used to think I understood things, now I think I see the limitations of thought and that's enough.

 

I'm not an -ist of any sort. I'm with minkus.

These long-winded, analytical posts, be they Daoist or Buddhist, are either over my head or not terribly interesting to me lately. So many words, so little reality. They're really not the same, you know.

I just don't have the energy to devote to thinking or debating that much anymore.

 

 

That was beautiful! Thank you!

[nac]

How did I know it would come down to this?

 

"I can last longer."

 

"Well I'm bigger."

 

"Well that's not what ur mom sed, lolz"

[Pietro]

Could I change my vote?

I voted

No, Buddhists can express their disagreement and explanations in every thread, its fine.

which expressed well what I felt at the time.

 

Now I would rather get any other option.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

There's a few Buddhist newcomers who post a lot, and often seem to hijack many threads over into some way to preach superiority of the dharma. Fine, if the threads call for it, but many of these threads become tiresome continuations of a theme, and end up being about the same thing, no matter the topic. The Buddhist posters seem to have decided what's what, and only seem to want to prove how superior Buddhism is, no matter what the thread is about. They don't seem to demonstrate any curiosity about other points of view, but seem to want to prove how enlightened they are and how Buddhism is the highest way. Every other point of view is batted down, and since at least one of them posts compulsively seemingly around the clock, they take over. It kind of ruins the idea of an open forum when you have a fervent super-poster that monopolizes a large part of it. It's really tiresome and discourages openness since they co-opt everything to their argument. If they were less all over the place all the time, it wouldn't be a problem. I say give 'em their own area, and we police them ourselves when they pull a thread off-topic.

 

I keep hoping eventually that annoying guy (why, who could that be??)will get bored and go off to preach on another forum... but now probably won't just to piss us off.

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

Edited August 15, 2009 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[Marblehead]

I almost feel sad for the mild-mannered Taoist and others here who are trying to learn something about Taoism when they feel they are being overwhelmed by the aggressive Buddhists here.

 

It is Taoist tradition to reject none. To reject others would present ourselves as thinking that we are better than others. This would not be Tao.

 

On the other hand, it is not fair for anyone to corrupt a Taoist discussion solely for the purpose of advancing their own agenda. This would be very not-Tao and even not-Buddhist.

 

So all I will say (and I think I have already said it once) is that I think it is only fair that if a subject of Taoist philosophy or religion is being discussed and a not Taoist wishes to engage the discussion that they at least mention the fact that what they are presenting is their own belief system's view on the subject so not to cause anyone to believe that Buddhist doctrine is Taoism.

 

Be well!

[Zhuo Ming-Dao]

I personally think that there is nothing wrong with hearing from and taking from as many perspectives as possible. Taoists have always taken whatever techniques or philosophies seem to work and integrate them into their practice, using Taoism as a type of metaphysical infrastructure. Confucian, Buddhist, Shamanic, and even Islamic (believe it or not). This was their Way and it should be our Way as well. You use what works for you and throw away what doesn't.

 

As others have pointed out, the problems seem to arise when someone argues for "The Correct Way." They have found it and it is perfect/complete/true/original or some other wholly relative adjective. This view, even when coming from someone who is tolerant of the "lesser" ways, naturally predisposes the person to see it as their compassionate mission to point others to The Correct Way. Even this, I do not think is necessarily bad (though I can see how it could get a little tedious to some). What is destructive is when the person is actively intolerant of those other paths and possibilities. This sort of intolerance (whether it comes from a Buddhist, someone with THE technique, or a follower of the flying spaghetti monster) is actively harmful to humane discourse, the sharing of techniques and philosophies, and the general comradary between fellow seekers, which this site seems to exit to promote.

 

I hope that none of the discussions that I have had on this site regarding Buddhism have bothered others. There are somethings that I believe Buddhism does a very good job of explaining, and other things in which Taoism, shamanism, the scientific method, Christianity, Western philosophy (and so on) have the upper hand. I do not discriminate based on creed, but on what philosophy or technique best fits the needs of the particular situation. And actually this, I believe, is a truly Taoist outlook.

Edited August 15, 2009 by Zhuo Ming-Dao

[Marblehead]

Nice post Zhuo Ming-Dao, with valid points of consideration.

 

Be well!

[Pietro]

Well, if we look at the history of this site, we had several invasions in the past. Some from a single individual who overposted (makes me wonder how would the site cop with a hard limit for everybody of 5 posts a day, 15 posts a week and 100 posts a month), or when a group of individual like us so much.

 

The Kun Lun went down when their discussion board was settled.

The FU guy was limited as to number of threads he could open. He made his own discussion, discovered that he could not discuss all by himself, came back. And now I don't know what happened of him.

The DM was invited to leave and he accepted. When he came back years later everybody was so happy to see huim that he only posted once.

 

In a sense is flattering to have people come here and participate in a forum which is so different from their view. Somehow We taoists tend to be quite nice in the fact that we usually don't force things one way or the other. Trying to go with nature. This makes for very hospital conditions which many people like. I read that the Buddhist forum (I gather it's called e-shangha, although I never registered there) is no where as nice as this.

 

I wonder why, as Buddhism is such a complex and interesting religion, it need to host different point of view.

 

On a formal sense the Buddhists that are coming here are being nice, they are exposing their point of view, they are not using foul language or opening 25 threads a day. They are not doing anything wrong on the formal side.

 

And since this forum is open to every person that has any spiritual interest (have you read the list at the beginning? Even New Agers, can't we really born at the stake anyone anymore?), we can't have anything done formally (nor would Sean do it, he is quite fair from this point of view). It would be unfair, like trying to silence someone when you don't like what they say.

 

Maybe the solution is to act as a community, and ignore the offenders post. We have acted like this in the past with trolls. The practice is expressed in the book seven taoist masters (Mal, can you cut and paste the excerpt?): when you see something offensive, ignore it. Look as if you haven't seen it.

 

This would work if it is only one person, or if the person are here with an open heart. In the first case he would get bored (and tired of feeding the community, and not being fed back), in the second they would get the message.

 

It is a different thing if there are more people and they are looking for ways to disrupt the community. Then they can just start to discuss among them about this or that Buddhist precept, effectively making it impossible for everybody to have their own conversation. Since my experience is that those people are here trying honestly to convert us. But not really wanting to disrupt the community, it might work.

 

We could even make a small sign, like if we need to answer something. We just answer what we care, and roll our eyes on the repetitive bits. I wonder if we start to do it all, as a community, how funny that would be .

 

But the funny thing is that before those incidents happened, some months ago, I was seriously interested in learning more about Buddhism. I even ordered the book from Ingram from Amazon which is next to me on the table right now (the book, not Amazon). All this gave me quite the creep. I said it, it started feeling like the discussion with evangelical christians. They go in circles, and the person you are discussing with will never give in, because consider his/her duty to save you. So with all this preaching what they obtained from me was quite the opposite. How interesting!

[Sunya]

But the funny thing is that before those incidents happened, some months ago, I was seriously interested in learning more about Buddhism. I even ordered the book from Ingram from Amazon which is next to me on the table right now (the book, not Amazon). All this gave me quite the creep. I said it, it started feeling like the discussion with evangelical christians. They go in circles, and the person you are discussing with will never give in, because consider his/her duty to save you. So with all this preaching what they obtained from me was quite the opposite. How interesting!

 

yep, I can see that.

I hope I wasn't one of the people that made you feel that way. I can see how people coming off too strong can really push you away from their position, that happens to me too. it's very unskillful for people to act like that. but that doesn't mean that their position is wrong. just because they act unskillfully does not make them wrong.

 

these discussions though only point out your own projections, insecurities, and fantasies. specifically the fantasies of how a spiritually advanced person should act and what he/she should say.

Edited August 15, 2009 by mikaelz

[xabir2005]

 

But the funny thing is that before those incidents happened, some months ago, I was seriously interested in learning more about Buddhism. I even ordered the book from Ingram from Amazon which is next to me on the table right now (the book, not Amazon). All this gave me quite the creep. I said it, it started feeling like the discussion with evangelical christians. They go in circles, and the person you are discussing with will never give in, because consider his/her duty to save you. So with all this preaching what they obtained from me was quite the opposite. How interesting!

I don't know what are the views of other Buddhists, but at least in my view and my friend 'Thusness''s view, Taoism's view and understanding is really deep and no different from the Buddhist understanding. Of course, this does not mean that all Taoists necessarily are enlightened, just in the same way it does not mean Buddhists are all enlightened -- some Buddhists also have wrong views etc. I do not see any need to convert Taoists, and hope that Taoists can learn whatever is good and useful in Buddhism just as Buddhists can learn of whatever is good and useful in Taoism.

 

BTW, wanted to put a note that Daniel Ingram is truly experienced. Can't recommend him highly enough.

Edited August 15, 2009 by xabir2005

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

I don't know what are the views of other Buddhists, but at least in my view and my friend 'Thusness''s view, Taoism's view and understanding is really deep and no different from the Buddhist understanding. Of course, this does not mean that all Taoists necessarily are enlightened, just in the same way it does not mean Buddhists are all enlightened -- some Buddhists also have wrong views etc. I do not see any need to convert Taoists, and hope that Taoists can learn whatever is good and useful in Buddhism just as Buddhists can learn of whatever is good and useful in Taoism.

 

 

From my view, the super-posting Buddhists who landed here a few months ago are not the least bit interested in learning anything good and useful about Taoism, but instead are using the taobums as a platform to preach their limited Buddhist views. Their debates are one-sided and mostly obtuse and poorly argued. What happened to e-sangha? The problem is most are already like them--no one to preach to. Here they get a mostly passive audience. The poll in this thread indicates that most of us find this buddhist barrage very irritating.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

[宁]

From my view, the super-posting Buddhists who landed here a few months ago are not the least bit interested in learning anything good and useful about Taoism, but instead are using the taobums as a platform to preach their limited Buddhist views. Their debates are one-sided and mostly obtuse and poorly argued. What happened to e-sangha? The problem is most are already like them--no one to preach to. Here they get a mostly passive audience. The poll in this thread indicates that most of us find this buddhist barrage very irritating.

.

 

 

how many buddhists do you need to hack a daoist forum (or to screw a lightbulb?

(a wise-ass answer anyone?..)

[Marblehead]

 

how many buddhists do you need to screw a lightbulb?

(a wise-ass answer anyone?..)

 

It can be accomplished if there is only ond Buddhist.

 

It cannot be done if there is more than one Buddhist because no Buddhist will ever agree with another Buddhist as to what a light bulb realy is.

 

Be well!

[Fox]

I'm interested in Buddhism, Taoism and various other school of eastern thought.

 

Geeze, I'm sorry if my questions have been suchhh a "nuisance" to some, however, the top of the forums does say its welcomed.

 

So my apologies to all of you and your poor little mouse clicking fingers who may have stumbled upon a post of mine that may have had buddhist traits held with in.

 

As someone who is vastly interested in Eastern philosophies, I find this forum to be helpful in many many subjects, one being Buddhism. I come here if I have a buddhist question, and it gets answered, I come here with a taoist question, it gets answered. I have gained quite a bit of knowledge from users on this forum, no matter their affiliation.

 

I like having Buddhists around, Taoists around, and so forth.. they offer a lot to this place.

[Marblehead]

Give yourself a hug Fox!!

 

Yes, we Taoists are supposed to be tolerant.

 

And there is a lot of compatability between Buddhism and Taoism.

 

Maybe soon things will mellow out a bit concerning this subject and the various forums will flow much gentler.

 

The question was valid therefore it was worth asking.

 

The subject apparently was active in the thoughts of many of the members else there would not have been such a lrage response to it.

 

This too shall pass!

 

Be well!

Edited August 16, 2009 by Marblehead