Should a Taoist Forum focus primarily on Taoism?

[Wayfarer64]

Unfortunately, I don't think the free online courses market is diversified enough to get a good (complete, video) course on advanced physics or mathematics yet. Let me know if you find anything.

 

Seriously though, check out the Road to Reality (make sure to get a hardcover). And throw in the Feynman Lectures for good measure. That will get you the mathematical and physical perspectives (resp) from two masters.

 

So much out there will focus on calculating eigenfunctions, etc. and I don't think that is what you are looking for. But if you are looking for a serious QM text, Introduction to Quantum Physics by French and Taylor is a good start, and if you are comfortable with the math already (functional analysis, etc.) try Shankar's Principles of Quantum Mechanics.

 

Like you said, "alternative viewpoints" and in-depth foundational studies can wait. Just don't let your mind be warped past the elastic limit (as Julian Schwinger would say).

 

Thank you Creation!- (what a fine phrase too... a Taoist prayer of thanx in itself)... Bringing us back to the reality of reality... the study of LIFE is what is Important to Taoists. Ideas are wonderously fine to hold, mold, bring into ones' fold and be told (or sold)....But intellectualizing and SUPPOSING gets old for me...

 

I will get ( onto/into)...The Road to Reality ASAP...(another fine phrase!)...& the French & Taylor book also...

 

But this is sort of off topic- & It was so easy to just be carried away into a much more fruitful topic!-

[Vajrahridaya]

I've heard physisists generally agree that the only constant IS change...

 

This is all the Buddha ever said, no permanent self.

 

No permanent substance. One can only have a permanent realization of this.

 

If that's what the Tao means, than so be it.

[Wayfarer64]

This is all the Buddha ever said, no permanent self.

 

No permanent substance. One can only have a permanent realization of this.

 

If that's what the Tao means, than so be it.

 

well if YOU say- " so be it "that settles it. we can all accept Taoist principles of change because YOU say we can...Due to Buddhist thinking - how simple you make things -just agree with Buddhism and be free of all other concerns!

what extactic joy you tender! That settles this thread - rude and imperious entries from Buddhists are fine now because Vaj says SO BE IT! we are all one in non-permanance...

[Vajrahridaya]

well if YOU say- " so be it "that settles it. we can all accept Taoist principles of change because YOU say we can...Due to Buddhist thinking - how simple you make things -just agree with Buddhism and be free of all other concerns!

what extactic joy you tender! That settles this thread - rude and imperious entries from Buddhists are fine now because Vaj says SO BE IT! we are all one in non-permanance...

 

How did the center of your chest feel when you said that?

[nac]

I never said I know. I only offered a suggestion of an alternative thought.

Cool.

 

I totally agree. But not at every individual moment in time. Changes allow for the impossibles of today to become possibles of tomorrow, or not.

You know what I meant.

 

I think that is is an incorrect statement. Maybe some don't - the majority still do. Just watched a program last night concerning this produced this year and the theory still stands very strong.

Nope, only in the Newtonian scale I'm afraid. Ask around if you don't believe me.

 

Nor at any other lever of reality. It is my opinion that there are no absolutes nor truths except for the eternal processes of change. (And change negates all other inferred absolutes and truths.)

I never said it applies in the Newtonian scale, but this is how things work at the quantum level. Sure, I believe in impermanence, but I also think the world is caught in some kind of an eternal Catch-22. I think this is best expressed by Terry Pratchett: "Money is not a thing, it is not even a process. It is a kind of shared dream. We dream that a small disc of common metal is worth the price of a substantial meal."

[Vajrahridaya]

Nor at any other lever of reality. It is my opinion that there are no absolutes nor truths except for the eternal processes of change. (And change negates all other inferred absolutes and truths.)

 

 

Hmm, well here we can agree after all. How bout' dat.

[Wayfarer64]

How did the center of your chest feel when you said that?

 

As IF you care?!

 

Besides, I said nothing... I typed...

 

It felt like I was calling you out from behind yr mask of scholarly tripe & SELF- centered religiosity.

 

YOU found some of yr answers and now act as if ya think the world revolves around those answers. Those of us here who are still free-thinking and not caught up in the dogmatic and politically based agendas of any one theory of this cosmos still have open minds and eyes to see truth as it emerges- not only as it applies to our preconceived notions of how things work...

 

You remain on my ignore list, to address as I feel its apt to our larger discussions here, allowing my self that buffer to yr pretentious twaddle...Is a relief ... that actually addressing you negates to some small degree...

 

I dislike yr attitude as I would any head-strong know-it all holier than thou fool...

 

Hows' yr chest feeling? I'm very happy to have gotten that off'n mine!

Edited August 25, 2009 by Wayfarer64

[Marblehead]

Hmm, well here we can agree after all. How bout' dat.

 

Post noted.

 

Happy Trails!

[Marblehead]

Hi Nac,

 

I am glad that you are one of those non-Taoists who I can have rational discussions with (even if we don't always agree).

 

Cool.

You know what I meant.

 

Yeah, but I needed to clarify my thoughts on that concept.

 

Nope, only in the Newtonian scale I'm afraid. Ask around if you don't believe me.

 

It won't effect my life either way so I probably won't go searching.

 

I never said it applies in the Newtonian scale, but this is how things work at the quantum level. Sure, I believe in impermanence, but I also think the world is caught in some kind of an eternal Catch-22. I think this is best expressed by Terry Pratchett: "Money is not a thing, it is not even a process. It is a kind of shared dream. We dream that a small disc of common metal is worth the price of a substantial meal."

 

Yeah, the same thing can appear to be different depending on how we look at them.

 

Money is real. It has real value. In most parts of the world the barter system is no longer possible so we place a monetary value on goods and services. I exchange my services for money and then I use the money to purchase goods and services I cannot myself perform.

 

Yes, we do oftentimes get caught up with thoughts that things are going to last forever. We are always wrong whenever we have these thoughts.

 

The best we can do, I think, is to do our best to adapt to the changes in life. Even our money is constantly changing value.

 

Happy Trails!

Edited August 25, 2009 by Marblehead

[nac]

Yes, we do oftentimes get caught up with thoughts that things are going to last forever. We are always wrong whenever we have these thoughts.

 

The best we can do, I think, is to do our best to adapt to the changes in life. Even our money is constantly changing value.

Yup, it all comes down to one's point of view I think. Whether you're holding a suitcase with a million dollars in it in Las Vegas or a desert island with no means of getting away from it whose natives only trade in beads. The dollars have no intrinsic value in themselves unless the rest of the environment decides to cooperate. The rabbit hole never ends.

Edited August 25, 2009 by nac

[Marblehead]

Gee Nac,

 

You left me with nothing to respond to.

 

Happy Trails!

[Wayfarer64]

. In most parts of the world the barter system is no longer possible so we place a monetary value on goods and services. I exchange my services for money and then I use the money to purchase goods and services I cannot myself perform.

 

Yes, we do oftentimes get caught up with thoughts that things are going to last forever. We are always wrong whenever we have these thoughts.

 

The best we can do, I think, is to do our best to adapt to the changes in life. Even our money is constantly changing value.

 

Happy Trails!

 

This is a great topic... but off thread... anyway -I've used the barter system in 35 nations... and everywhere I've lived in the USA. It works everywhere! Don't count it out guys. There is a world-wide underground economy, off the grid and non-denominational!

 

There is no actual income to declare, just a natural flow of goods & services sans gilt.-(pun intended)-

 

love to all-Pat

[Marblehead]

Yeah, it is off topic but to my knowledge no one has been banned from this forum for taking a thread off topic. Hehehe.

 

I was going to say you are right but you already know that. Gee, it is so hard to respond to a post when you have nothing constructive to say.

 

But anyhow. Yes, myself, being retired Army, I have been in places where I have used the barter system. (No explanations. Hehehe.)

 

I do think that it is becoming less popular as the population on the planet increases.

 

Happy Trails!

[Wayfarer64]

Yeah, it is off topic but to my knowledge no one has been banned from this forum for taking a thread off topic. Hehehe.

 

I was going to say you are right but you already know that. Gee, it is so hard to respond to a post when you have nothing constructive to say.

 

But anyhow. Yes, myself, being retired Army, I have been in places where I have used the barter system. (No explanations. Hehehe.)

 

I do think that it is becoming less popular as the population on the planet increases.

 

Happy Trails!

 

The barter system is discouraged by most Governments. Its a tax thing... But the popularity remains in these tuff economic times-which are pretty much world-wide - if stratified socially...It is GROWING.

 

NOT spending money for stuff is the way to go when money is tight. Everyone has something anyone else would want if not actually need-(yes salesmanship still applies!).

 

That the value of everything shifts is - (like the rest of life)... its most prominant aspect...

 

That makes the stock market, milk, petroleum products and even courses in enlightenments' pricings change.

 

The economic "laws" that rich & powerful folks play with and get politicians to manipulate, do not apply in nature - except supply & demand.

 

Sharing (without much, if any, waste)...works best for me.

[Marblehead]

Yes, I suppose that most governments do not favor the barter system.

 

Yeah, supply and demand rule in any form of market economy.

 

... ...

 

So. Back to topic. I would think that at this point in time we can say that the majority of the membership feel that a Taoist forum's primary focus should be on Taoism.

 

But it is obvious that we talk about other stuff too. Wait! All is Tao. No matter what we talk about we are talking about Tao. Yeah, mostly the manifestations but still.

 

So. What can we talk about next?

 

Happy Trails!

[Pietro]

The barter system is discouraged by most Governments. Its a tax thing...

 

 

It's even more interesting. If I got it right, the taxes were introduced to force the people to share and sell the products of their land. Think about it, if you have a kingdom where everybody owns their farm, and live off it. You have very little taxes. And very little market. But if you insert a tax on the property, now everybody need to find ways to pay that. And to do that they need to produce more, go to the market, sell, get cash, pay with cash. And in one swift move the authority got money (from land), market, and more money (from market exchanges).

 

We still have thins kind of problems. For example the GDP counts exchanges. If you grow your own food the GDP does not grow. But if I grow your food, and you grow mine, regardless of the taxes, the GDP grows. There is a whole discipline that is trying alternative method to measure the richness of a country that are better than the GDP. We have a whole ecology of different measures of happiness (from the one from the green party, to the one from Buhtan - I think-, and so on). And since when you have many, you cannot rely on anyone, we are back at square one.

[Vajrahridaya]

 

Hows' yr chest feeling? I'm very happy to have gotten that off'n mine!

 

Oh good, that sure was a heavy load.

[JustARandomPanda]

We still have thins kind of problems. For example the GDP counts exchanges. If you grow your own food the GDP does not grow. But if I grow your food, and you grow mine, regardless of the taxes, the GDP grows. There is a whole discipline that is trying alternative method to measure the richness of a country that are better than the GDP. We have a whole ecology of different measures of happiness (from the one from the green party, to the one from Buhtan - I think-, and so on). And since when you have many, you cannot rely on anyone, we are back at square one.

Since starting KAP and meditating I've become much more "Green-ish" and concerned for the environment in my thinking.

 

I'd also like to add if one finds the things Pietro mentions interesting please check out David Harvey. Hands down some of the smartest critiques of capitalistic systems since Marx. His website has some good, short YouTube vid links to boot.

[nac]

Gee Nac,

 

You left me with nothing to respond to.

 

Happy Trails!

Then my work here is done. Let's talk about what we'd do if we could spend a million dollars!

 

You could argue that depending on one's personality, even having a million dollars in Las Vegas may not necessarily bring you joy if (god forbid) someone close to you had recently passed away. Even if that weren't the case, what could you do with the cash that will assure true satisfaction? Depends entirely on one's frame of mind, I think, which is also changing constantly. Eg. in the state I'm in right now, I might donate most of it to charity, happily, with complete satisfaction and no regrets. If I had business sense, I could have started a business and occasionally donated to charity over a longer period of time, which is probably better for all parties concerned. My brother on the other hand, might not find happiness unless he spent it all in one go on the stuff he likes, etc. Still, there's no telling what we'd think of the our wisdom in our actions ten years from now, eh? Even that depends on a million other factors, not least of which is cultural conditioning and lifestyle.

 

So you have to ask yourself, what is the "true nature" of cash then? A cog in a gigantic, immensely complex machine, useless unless fixed the right way? One half of a yinyang diagram defined by the other half? A drop of dew clinging to an immense spiderweb reflecting all the other dewdrops on it?

Edited August 26, 2009 by nac

[Marblehead]

Then my work here is done. Let's talk about what we'd do if we could spend a million dollars!

 

So you have to ask yourself, what is the "true nature" of cash then? A cog in a gigantic, immensely complex machine, useless unless fixed the right way? One half of a yinyang diagram defined by the other half? A drop of dew clinging to an immense spiderweb reflecting all the other dewdrops on it?

 

When I used to play the lottery I sometimes wondered what I would do with the money if I won big. I don't play anymore so I can't win.

 

I considered family members but really none are in such a state that their life is in ruin because they do not have enough money. I have 'enough' so if I kept it I would probably just waste it. I already give to a number of charities on a regular basis (quarterly) so I wouldn't feel any need to give it all to charities.

 

One thing that had entered my mind was to give the money to some organization that works with the very poor and donate the money to be used to educate however many possible so that they can escape their meager existence and become a part of productive society.

 

So yes, cash is without value unless one uses it for the exchange of something tangible. Purchasing goods and services would be the primary use for such. To just horde it away is such a waste. If it can be used to benefit others than this would be even better, I think.

 

I like the image of dew dripping from a spider's web.

 

Happy Trails!

[Wayfarer64]

Oh good, that sure was a heavy load.

 

hah... it had not a twigs' weight... Back in the day we knew what heavy was... kids these days!

 

And once again yr wrong assessing someone elses' reality. Give it a rest. Yr just not any good at it... Try bowling- ya get to knock things down with fewer karmic intanglements...

[Vajrahridaya]

hah... it had not a twigs' weight... Back in the day we knew what heavy was... kids these days!

 

And once again yr wrong assessing someone elses' reality. Give it a rest. Yr just not any good at it... Try bowling- ya get to knock things down with fewer karmic intanglements...

 

Your smaller than you think.

[nac]

I considered family members but really none are in such a state that their life is in ruin because they do not have enough money.

lol! I wouldn't exactly call myself rich either. Jobless lower middle class Indian or dirt poor compared to the average American would probably be better descriptions.

 

I have 'enough' so if I kept it I would probably just waste it. I already give to a number of charities on a regular basis (quarterly) so I wouldn't feel any need to give it all to charities.

Yeah, me too. And I'm not giving away everything to charity either, unless I decide to join some monastic order...

 

One thing that had entered my mind was to give the money to some organization that works with the very poor and donate the money to be used to educate however many possible so that they can escape their meager existence and become a part of productive society.

 

So yes, cash is without value unless one uses it for the exchange of something tangible. Purchasing goods and services would be the primary use for such. To just horde it away is such a waste. If it can be used to benefit others than this would be even better, I think.

Agreed, although it really has to be of tangible benefit. Unfortunately, humanity has never had a good sense of what things are tangible and how much.

 

I like the image of dew dripping from a spider's web.

Obviously none of this imagery is mine.

Edited August 27, 2009 by nac

[Marblehead]

lol! I wouldn't exactly call myself rich either. Jobless lower middle class Indian or dirt poor compared to the average American would probably be better descriptions.

 

Yeah. We always get in trouble when we compare ourself with others. Gotta' be careful with that one.

 

Yeah, me too. And I'm not giving away everything to charity either, unless I decide to join some monastic order...

 

I understand that well and have no problem with it.

 

Agreed, although it really has to be of tangible benefit. Unfortunately, humanity has never had a good sense of what things are tangible and how much.

 

Yeah. Unfortunately most of us place more importance on material things than we do on our inner peace and contentment. Of course, I am biased regarding this concept because I now have enough. Not too many years ago I was not in such good shape so my struggles were primarily with the material. It is my belief that if our basic needs are not satisfied we will always have problems attaining inner peace, harmony and contentment.

 

Obviously none of this imagery is mine.

 

Well, it was your's when you typed it. Hehehe. And it was mine when I read it.

 

You know what? We are doing an excellent job at keeping this thread alive even though we have gone completely off topic. But that's good too. We are communicating and that is the first step toward understanding.

 

Happy Trails!

[Wayfarer64]

Your smaller than you think.

 

Wow! So now you know what I think....

 

Do you know what I am thinking of & calling you in my mind? what oppinion I have of you? Take it to heart young man.

yr prescience could then be of use...

 

yr amazingly adept at being foolish here -so, Yr now on my ignore list... do what ya want to-I'm done with yr BS...

 

PS_

Vaj -Don't ya REALIZE that this thread is about yr own arrogance and willful insistance on a one-track approach to EVERYTHING?

Edited August 27, 2009 by Wayfarer64