Iron Shirt Chi Kung - Mantak Chia

[Encephalon]

Being mindful not to create a "soup" of instruction and methodology, would anyone care to chime in on this particular work? My MO is coming along, and I do practice Clyman's condensing breathing. Should I just cool it for now, or is there some essential point to this book that would improve my overall understanding of energy work?

 

You guys have been great so far, particularly with book reviews.

 

Thanks in advance.

[sabin1star]

[edited]

Edited August 23, 2009 by sabin1star

[King Kabalabhati]

I'm aware that this is a Iron Shirt thread, I'm thinking of studying it with a teacher but since you brought up problems with Chia's method of MO..

 

I've studied MO from the books by Chia and I "think I got it". I don't really do it by visualisation, and I haven't got the impression from the books that visualisation is the way to do it. When the chi goes up to my crown I feel a warm pressure in the crown, then I move it to my third eye and start feeling the pressure in the forehead and the sinuses, as if something was expanding them. The feeling of pressure and warmth is very clear and in accordance with what Chia writes. Similar pressure can be felt in all locations along the MO, although these spots and the perineum are the most sensitive to it. When chi passes thru the tongue/throat there's a subtle vibration in my lips, like a weak current of electricity.

 

I've had no negative side effects and neither has my wife, who has a similar history of practice, we've both done it half a year now. In fact I simply don't understand how you could get such simple and easy instructions wrong somehow, or how you could just imagine this very clear feeling of chi flow.

 

The instructions for storing the chi in the navel tan tien are also very clear, and the spiraling movements done with the eyes are felt distinctly as "stirring" in the navel so you know you got it right. Even though I started working with heated sexual energy quite early (also with Chia's instructions), at the same time I started MO I've still had only positive experiences, apart from a few lost loads of sperm. No more loss occurs, even night time emissions have disappeared. The key thing is I feel all this happening within my body instead of just visualising.

 

Perhaps the simple yoga asanas like the Plow and the Shoulder Stand I did along with the practices helped open the channels. I just wanted to share this because so many people are very critical towards Chia's approach to MO and I've felt it's OK. That's not to say other methods wouldn't work.

 

I promise you if I get negative experiences from these practices you will be among the first ones to know. Also I realise my experience with them is not very long but is quite intensive since I've taken these practices seriously and done them every single day for half a year.

 

Somebody wrote someplace that the Iron Shit practices would be potentially harmful as taught by Chia. Anyone have such experiences? I mean, they seem much more powerful and "high pressure" when compared to MO.

Edited August 22, 2009 by King Kabalabhati

[longrhythm]

Hey.

 

My experience with the Iron Shirt stuff is that it's excellent for cultivation, not so much for harmonization. In other words, especially if you couple this with semen retention, it will get your orbit flowing (over time I found it personally more effective to aim deeper than indicated to the extent that I contact the spinal cord). However, although this will have a huge impact on "how much", it won't really touch "how much of what". Couple it with some form of meditation (Chia doesn't offer meditation no matter what he says, it's really all energy work) and things can change dramatically. All in all EXTREMELY effective. Be careful.

 

 

Being mindful not to create a "soup" of instruction and methodology, would anyone care to chime in on this particular work? My MO is coming along, and I do practice Clyman's condensing breathing. Should I just cool it for now, or is there some essential point to this book that would improve my overall understanding of energy work?

 

You guys have been great so far, particularly with book reviews.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Gerard]

If we're just talking about Iron Shirt I think his techniques are good. The problem is that you need to be able to do the microcosmic orbit (lesser heavenly cycle) and you have to be able to do some type of grounding.

 

Well said; for instance, Baguazhang and Vipassana will open the micro and macrocosmic orbits quickly and safely.

 

 

Edited: missed a word.

Edited August 22, 2009 by durkhrod chogori

[Mandrake]

Be careful to learn it from a live teacher.

 

Many years ago, when I trained from the book, I managed to hurt my right lung. Took a couple of years to heal.

 

Warnings have popped up several times over the years, at the healing dao forum.

 

 

M

[Trunk]

Warnings have popped up several times over the years, at the healing dao forum.

Archived at you-know-where.

[sabin1star]

[edited]

Edited August 23, 2009 by sabin1star

[rsalazar]

Just wanted to add my 2 cents to the thread:

 

I did get negative side effects from the packing breathing, so I would caution everyone to be very careful with this - I realize that a lot of this had to do with me and how internally clogged up I was at the time, but nevertheless, I was told by someone back in 1994 at an HT retreat that packing was no longer being emphasized because people were either straining too much or otherwise putting excessive effort into this and hurting themselves - I personally was doing the packing breathing in Embracing the Tree every day until I had the distinct feeling that I was not getting enough breath into my lungs, it was the most peculiar thing, like I was constantly short of breath no matter what, these symptoms started quite suddenly - the alarm bells went off and I stopped the packing practice shortly thereafter - symptoms quickly went away after this.

 

In the end, we all have different constitutions and we will naturally get different effects from different practices, much in my opinion has to do with how "clean" our engine is to begin with - exercise your bodily awareness constantly so you can monitor any ongoing changes, be alert to anything that might signal the start of a problem.

 

Be well.

[King Kabalabhati]

Very valuable 2 cents there. The word "packing" itself sounds a bit forceful doesn't it..

 

It's very advisable for anyone interested in energy work to start with something pretty mellow like pranayama breathing exercises. I did those for some years, on and off, before starting with sexual kung fu and Microcosmic. Now I realize they probably made a lot of difference.

 

 

 

Just wanted to add my 2 cents to the thread:

 

I did get negative side effects from the packing breathing, so I would caution everyone to be very careful with this - I realize that a lot of this had to do with me and how internally clogged up I was at the time, but nevertheless, I was told by someone back in 1994 at an HT retreat that packing was no longer being emphasized because people were either straining too much or otherwise putting excessive effort into this and hurting themselves - I personally was doing the packing breathing in Embracing the Tree every day until I had the distinct feeling that I was not getting enough breath into my lungs, it was the most peculiar thing, like I was constantly short of breath no matter what, these symptoms started quite suddenly - the alarm bells went off and I stopped the packing practice shortly thereafter - symptoms quickly went away after this.

 

In the end, we all have different constitutions and we will naturally get different effects from different practices, much in my opinion has to do with how "clean" our engine is to begin with - exercise your bodily awareness constantly so you can monitor any ongoing changes, be alert to anything that might signal the start of a problem.

 

Be well.

[Mal]

It turns out my Sifu taught me Golden Bell doing 10 simple chi gungs at the start of kung fu training. I just did what I was told. It was many years after that I learnt the "Golden Bell" name, apparently it's also a secret practice

 

A MCO style circulation is the first chi gung. So I would agree that a physically moving orbit (as opposed to static meditation) is a important start. YMMV

[Trunk]

I hate to be redundant... but if you look in the Iron Shirt 1 section of alchemicaltaoism.com there's info on this topic, including posts from 3 different senior HT instructors.

[rsalazar]

Hello Trunk,

 

Many thanks for the reminder, this is exactly what I experienced and helps answer a lot of questions. Kudos for maintaining your site, valuable information here.

Cheers,

R

 

I hate to be redundant... but if you look in the Iron Shirt 1 section of alchemicaltaoism.com there's info on this topic, including posts from 3 different senior HT instructors.

[findley]

I usually call Chia a liar, putting forth an inefficient and useless system--

 

--but Iron Shirt was probably the best. I would do it for hours, (really, tried to do it all day,) and I had cultivated a powerful aura, (that I could actually see.) I would 'skin-breathe' in through my skin as deep as I could, and then hold the breath and tense up-- 'condensing' the chi.

 

 

I would say that it is probably one of the best chii-cultivation techniques available.

[三江源]

....

 

--but Iron Shirt was probably the best. I would do it for hours, (really, tried to do it all day,) and I had cultivated a powerful aura, (that I could actually see.) I would 'skin-breathe' in through my skin as deep as I could, and then hold the breath and tense up-- 'condensing' the chi.

 

 

I would say that it is probably one of the best chii-cultivation techniques available.

 

It is. I like doing this too, especially in nature. I think, though, you need to have nice clear channels and no noticeable blockages to be doing this.

[Encephalon]

I hate to be redundant... but if you look in the Iron Shirt 1 section of alchemicaltaoism.com there's info on this topic, including posts from 3 different senior HT instructors.

 

 

Yes, thanks again. Redundancy works!