does semen emissons makes you start again?

[宁]

Basically do not get "Hung up" on it. And do not get downon yourself if you cum.

 

Show me a River or an Ocean that is practicing retention.....

 

it seems we disagree very often on this topic, Vaj

 

if we look in the animal kingdom...

most of the animals mate at specific seasons.

the rest of the year they keep their strenght for fight and survival...

 

on a personal note, i noticed a great deal of difference in attitude and energy (=more refined) with people that 'mind' their Jing. the difference is so deep, that i beg to differ from your guy's opinions.

 

 

 

 

 

yes, if you do emit semen, frustration only makes it worse

[Mal]

retention, always a favored topic

 

Perhaps "hung up" is the important distinction, too much focus on the act of retention to the exclusion of the purpose of being a sexual creature.

 

It's obvious we shouldn't be masturbating ourselves in a frenzy, yet what is not natural about a lot of love making with a new partner.

 

But it may not be the season for mating so don't force it either We shouldn't be controlling ourselves tightly or repressing urges.

 

From my perspective retention does not compare to INTENT or Virtue. In other words, if you truly have real love for the person you are making love with, then the energy exchange can be far more beneficial than retention.

 

IMHO Yes retention builds energy. Exchanging with someone you love builds much yummy energy too. Different methods, similar goals?

 

Personally the only reason I hold back on EJ is to make love for longer. Too much masturbation = not doing what I want for as long as I want ..... and I want the other participant to have a lot of fun

[Aetherous]

on a personal note, i noticed a great deal of difference in attitude and energy (=more refined) with people that 'mind' their Jing. the difference is so deep, that i beg to differ from your guy's opinions.

 

Guys who are totally celibate tend to be less "ballsy" in their nature. Less masculinity and drive. Probably because of the "use it or lose it" principle. I wouldn't say it's more refined...rather, more repressed. This is just how I sense things.

[宁]

Guys who are totally celibate tend to be less "ballsy" in their nature. Less masculinity and drive. Probably because of the "use it or lose it" principle. I wouldn't say it's more refined...rather, more repressed. This is just how I sense things.

 

How can refinement and repression mean the same thing?

Edited August 27, 2009 by Little1

[King Kabalabhati]

This conversation doesn't work as long as people are simultaniously talking about retention including sex, total celibacy, occasional but limited ejaculation and freely wasting away sperm, and some thinking there's no energy exchange without ejaculation which is untrue, people making arguments on top of another but at the same time changing the subject from one to another

 

But it doesnt have to work though, as long as a lot of different views are expressed. So the experienced guys can keep their point of view and the newcomers will be left confused and it's good, they will have to do their own decisions anyway.

 

My humble advice to the aspiring taoist is still: smile at it, whatever it is you do. If you don't want retention, you could ration your ejaculations. If you don't want to do that, waste away. Just stay alert of your energies and let that feeling decide for you in the context of what you wish to be/achieve. In the end it's that simple. And in 10 years or so you can be here telling everyone there's no need to do retention, sit down or even breathe, or that you will have serious problems if you injaculate or that your spine will melt if you masturbate

[宁]

Scotty,

 

to refine doesn't mean to retain... to retain doesn't mean to refine.

 

if your refinement training is really good, you can retain for a while, until the force grows stronger.

if it's get very good, you can retain for longer periods, and you'll have more juice for the advanced practice.

 

but, it is said to never retain more than you can refine.

(or bite more than you can chew)

 

if you can't do it, it doesn't mean it's bad or unnecesary.

it is necessary to all of us, because without strong Jing, there is not enough Qi, let alone Spirit...

jing - qi - shen ... it's daoist alchemy...

Edited August 27, 2009 by Little1

[sheng zhen]

Good posture is needed to keep spinal/musculature alignment. Doesn't do anything for cultivation.

YaMu, how can you seperate the physical body from our cultivation like that? I am sure you really dont seperate body and consciousness, so I was a little confused with this statement. Can you elaborate on what you mean by saying posture has nothing to do with cultivation?

 

To me it is obvious that with cultivation of energy, attitude, consciousness, etc, we ALSO bring a cultivation of body. Which includes better posture. If our inner cultivation is successful we have to see the result on the physical body aswell. My experience is that the body will mirror our true state at all times. If we have a hunched back, weak core muscles, stiff neck, or whatever, then this is a mirror of some dysfunction also in consciousness and energy.

 

I believe you can work both ways. By working with posture(through Zhan Zhuan, qigong, physical workout, etc), we also cultivate energy. And by working with energy we also cultivate posture.

 

It is very difficult to be happy if your shoulders hang forward. And it is very difficult to be depressed if you spine is strong and erect.

[宁]

Yes, I was wondering about that also.

Ya Mu made some interesting articles and contributions to the TTB, but certain areas that are usually considered crucial are, in his view, secondary...

Which makes me wonder how did he understand things, after all.

[Ya Mu]

...

if you can't do it, it doesn't mean it's bad or unnecesary.

it is necessary to all of us, because without strong Jing, there is not enough Qi, let alone Spirit...

jing - qi - shen ... it's daoist alchemy...

 

(If I understand what you are saying correctly) You are making a basic assumption which I respectfully disagree with. Your assumption is that retention is the only way to retain jing. I am saying there is another way which utilizes High Level Qigong in order to supercharge the jing. The only drawback to this method is that it DOES require 2 people, male/female, who are cultivators. I assure you there is plenty of jing, qi and shen with this method.

 

 

...

IMHO Yes retention builds energy. Exchanging with someone you love builds much yummy energy too. Different methods, similar goals?

...

Yes, different methods. But I am referring to a specific method of cultivation, not simply making love but utilizing the ejaculation and energy contained as a catalyst to part the curtain, then pulling the energy, refined by Spirit back in.

 

quote name='sheng zhen' date='Aug 27 2009, 02:45 AM' post='138065']

YaMu, how can you seperate the physical body from our cultivation like that? I am sure you really dont seperate body and consciousness, so I was a little confused with this statement. Can you elaborate on what you mean by saying posture has nothing to do with cultivation?

 

To me it is obvious that with cultivation of energy, attitude, consciousness, etc, we ALSO bring a cultivation of body. Which includes better posture. If our inner cultivation is successful we have to see the result on the physical body aswell. My experience is that the body will mirror our true state at all times. If we have a hunched back, weak core muscles, stiff neck, or whatever, then this is a mirror of some dysfunction also in consciousness and energy.

 

I believe you can work both ways. By working with posture(through Zhan Zhuan, qigong, physical workout, etc), we also cultivate energy. And by working with energy we also cultivate posture.

 

It is very difficult to be happy if your shoulders hang forward. And it is very difficult to be depressed if you spine is strong and erect.

 

It is said by the old Taoists that a person who does physical exercises MUST do internal exercises. But a person that does internal exercise can sometimes forget to do physical exercise.

 

I am not saying to separate the body. Of course the body follows the energy cultivation. Paying attention to posture is a must for proper musculoskeletal function. But in terms of energy cultivation, paying too much attention to the physical will only get a person so far as they usually tend to start overly focusing on the physical INSTEAD of the spiritual. In the form of qigong I teach we are NOT concerned with body alignment but with maximizing the spiritual energetics. Doesn't mean the person practicing shouldn't exercise and pay attention to posture.

The most efficient physical exercise that exists is rebounding, which I heartily endorse. In my clinic I am faced with musculoskeletal problems every day. I attempt to show these folks proper posture and exercise.

 

The example I gave in a post above reflects this. I had a person come up to me during a break in a performance at 1 AM and asked how in the world did I have as much energy to move like I did, then say "you must work out a lot" The answer of course is the qigong that I practice.

 

Bottom line, IMO, is that the physical is something we rent for an extremely short period of time while the energy body is eternal. Makes sense to me and I choose to focus more on the energy body. The "as above so below" law applies here, though, so the physical reflects the development or refinement of the energy body.

[sheng zhen]

The "as above so below" law applies here, though, so the physical reflects the development or refinement of the energy body.

Yes, but its not a one-way communication. It is also "as below, so above". Its a dialogue. But I agree with you. When teaching qigong to beginners it can often be very misleading to focus too much on correct posture. People tend to be hung up on doing it objectively "correct" instead of feeling their own body and energy.

[King Kabalabhati]

But ejacultation.. Like my wife's aunt said about sex.. "It's messy!"

[Vajrasattva]

it seems we disagree very often on this topic, Vaj

 

if we look in the animal kingdom...

most of the animals mate at specific seasons.

the rest of the year they keep their strenght for fight and survival...

 

on a personal note, i noticed a great deal of difference in attitude and energy (=more refined) with people that 'mind' their Jing. the difference is so deep, that i beg to differ from your guy's opinions.

yes, if you do emit semen, frustration only makes it worse

 

 

 

Its all about moderation. It doesn't mean you are going to Bust a Nut every day. But you also are not going to be obsessed.

 

In the beginning stages it may benefit to harness a bit your "Semen" BUT AGAIN DO NOT GET HUNG UP ON IT.

That is far more damaging.

 

ONCE YOU HAVE JUICE. it doesn't matter. My source of energy and power is not dependent on my semen.

 

If you do release semen there is SO much it can be used for.

 

1) Healing

2) Empowerment

3) Offering to Shakti

[JustARandomPanda]

My advice is to quit wasting money on books and save up to take a class with a real teacher..

 

Tao Semko is a good teacher.

[King Kabalabhati]

Queen Afua states that the sperm of a man who eats meat, eggs, dairy or fish (or is otherwise not completely purified) is polluted and thus can cause cancer in the womb. So probably if you're way down the path of spirituality and purification it's ok to use sperm in healing. I wouldn't do that, I eat dairy and eggs and am not that advanced, at least not yet.. I've still recently carried quite some negativity in my body (possibly still am) so I want to protect the womb of my queen from contamination and disease. I understand this will probably provoke resistance from you gurus, but this is just how I want to do it, to be cautious... Also not to fertilize another egg, three kids is already too much sometimes.

[Mal]

Yes, different methods. But I am referring to a specific method of cultivation, not simply making love but utilizing the ejaculation and energy contained as a catalyst to part the curtain, then pulling the energy, refined by Spirit back in.

 

It's nice to know it gets even better I wouldn't say I can do that consistently but it's certainly something I'm trying to learn

[Aetherous]

Little1,

 

It's all about potentials. Someone who feels the need to masturbate or have sex a lot has a lot of drive. A lot of potential. That drive can be used for the spiritual path...they can use their drive to make their spirit indomitable. Think of someone like findley, who although very misguided and irrational and immature at times, is really determined and lets nothing hold him back. He has drive.

 

On the other hand, someone who stops having sex or masturbating, stops utilizing their drive. They deny themselves. And they lose their potential. They become complacent, and that may look like refinement to some, but to me it looks like a lack of balls. There is less fuel for awakening in this person, even though the little bit of drive that they do have is being transmuted instead of being wasted away on ejaculation.

 

This is why the dual cultivation that some are discussing is much more effective. Because you are increasing your drive greatly by being around the opposite sex...it's just natural for the male potential to increase around the female. Then when you add in good practices to that, you get good progress.

 

This is just how I view it. Just another perspective to consider.

[King Kabalabhati]

I used to have a lot of sex drive. But I was wimpy with that, not like a masculine stallion who takes what he wants but more like sissy I would feel sorry for myself for not getting sex.. It's even harder when a beatiful sexy woman is frequently walking around the house with little clothes on..

 

Now I'm cultivating and I'm cool

[宁]

Little1,

 

It's all about potentials. Someone who feels the need to masturbate or have sex a lot has a lot of drive. A lot of potential. That drive can be used for the spiritual path...they can use their drive to make their spirit indomitable. Think of someone like findley, who although very misguided and irrational and immature at times, is really determined and lets nothing hold him back. He has drive.

 

On the other hand, someone who stops having sex or masturbating, stops utilizing their drive. They deny themselves. And they lose their potential. They become complacent, and that may look like refinement to some, but to me it looks like a lack of balls. There is less fuel for awakening in this person, even though the little bit of drive that they do have is being transmuted instead of being wasted away on ejaculation.

 

This is why the dual cultivation that some are discussing is much more effective. Because you are increasing your drive greatly by being around the opposite sex...it's just natural for the male potential to increase around the female. Then when you add in good practices to that, you get good progress.

 

This is just how I view it. Just another perspective to consider.

 

Hi Scotty,

 

it's the other way around... guys that are into sex alot, are that way because their sexual energy is weak.

(i chewed alot on this thought)

when the sexual energy is strong and full, the sex drive is lesser. you have IT, so you don't need to chase after it.

'use or loose' is a good politic, but it applies more to elderly folks in this case.

 

i usually don't talk that much detail about it, but your opinions seem to be very influential to some of the posters here. so i try to help them by telling you these things.

 

Hi Vaj,

 

you're already a teacher on these things so i probably shouldn't tell you what is what.

i just have very strong reasons to see things the way i do, that are related to cultivation.

 

i don't think there's ever a step in cultivation that certain things, like Jing, Qi or Shen, become expendable, because you have 'tapped into the source'.

the more you have, the more you learn to appreciate and act responsably toward what you have.

 

Hi Ya Mu,

 

i respectfully disagree. the first thing that matters is the body and it's health.

we may have acces to the greatest secrets, but if the body's health and strenght is poor, we have no way to explore and enjoy them...

hence, to me, the importance of managing Jing....

keep in mind that the energy body is very important to me also.

 

on a greater scale, Jing is Body, the very essence of it.

how can it be expendable??

 

L1

 

PS: I'm already one vs. three, so there's no point in going on with the debate, all i hope is our discussion will give each of us some threads for furthering our personal research... that' all

[Vajrasattva]

Tao Semko is a good teacher.

 

 

He is a GREAT teacher

 

Hi Scotty,

 

it's the other way around... guys that are into sex alot, are that way because their sexual energy is weak.

(i chewed alot on this thought)

when the sexual energy is strong and full, the sex drive is lesser. you have IT, so you don't need to chase after it.

'use or loose' is a good politic, but it applies more to elderly folks in this case.

 

i usually don't talk that much detail about it, but your opinions seem to be very influential to some of the posters here. so i try to help them by telling you these things.

 

Hi Vaj,

 

you're already a teacher on these things so i probably shouldn't tell you what is what.

i just have very strong reasons to see things the way i do, that are related to cultivation.

 

i don't think there's ever a step in cultivation that certain things, like Jing, Qi or Shen, become expendable, because you have 'tapped into the source'.

the more you have, the more you learn to appreciate and act responsably toward what you have.

 

Hi Ya Mu,

 

i respectfully disagree. the first thing that matters is the body and it's health.

we may have acces to the greatest secrets, but if the body's health and strenght is poor, we have no way to explore and enjoy them...

hence, to me, the importance of managing Jing....

keep in mind that the energy body is very important to me also.

 

on a greater scale, Jing is Body, the very essence of it.

how can it be expendable??

 

L1

 

PS: I'm already one vs. three, so there's no point in going on with the debate, all i hope is our discussion will give each of us some threads for furthering our personal research... that' all

 

 

ah the more you have the more you give........

[Aetherous]

it's the other way around... guys that are into sex alot, are that way because their sexual energy is weak.

 

That doesn't make much sense, does it? "Guys who have a lot of sex drive, have weak sex drive." I disagree.

 

If someone feels the need to drain it 5 times a day, that's a lot of force that could be going somewhere else. If someone never feels the need to drain it, that's hardly any force at all and is going to go nowhere.

 

If you dam up a river, it'll end up taking another pathway, or maybe the reservoir will overflow. Someone who begins with a lot of jing (a fast moving river with a nearly endless source), will have much more success in whatever pathway they want to forge. Someone who has a little trickling stream could build a huge dam, yet not much will happen, because they didn't have the supply.

 

when the sexual energy is strong and full, the sex drive is lesser. you have IT, so you don't need to chase after it.

'use or loose' is a good politic, but it applies more to elderly folks in this case.

 

I disagree. It applies to anyone, since the way it works is always the same.

 

If you have sex drive, then you will of course feel the compulsion to use it...of course you will have the motivation to "chase after it." That's what "sex drive" means. Strong sexual energy is that. It's potential energy. Like a rock sitting at the top of the hill. If you give it a little push, it wants to go down...changing it to kinetic energy. A rock at the top of a one foot hill has a lot less energy than a rock at the top of Everest. It will accomplish a lot less. So the person who needs to drain it 5 times a day will have a huge mountain of potential energy to be working with...it'll be very useful if they can ever figure out how to redirect the movement.

 

Hopefully with our practices, we're kind of putting a trampoline at the bottom of the hill, so that rock will reach way up into the sky instead of going straight down into the earth.

 

But for the person who never feels the sexual need, they will have a tiny one foot mound of dirt, that the rock will just roll down and not even bounce off of the trampoline. There will be no air time!

 

Celibacy may be good, but when things are forced over a long period of time, you end up re-training the body. Retraining it to have no sex drive...no fuel to blast off! Haven't you seen the posts of people here, where they say that they were celibate for years, but when they ejaculate now they feel totally drained for weeks? That's a prime example of this.

 

Once again, this is just my view. Consider it if it makes sense. I hope I'm not too influential.

[Ya Mu]

 

Hi Ya Mu,

 

i respectfully disagree. the first thing that matters is the body and it's health.

we may have acces to the greatest secrets, but if the body's health and strenght is poor, we have no way to explore and enjoy them...

hence, to me, the importance of managing Jing....

keep in mind that the energy body is very important to me also.

 

on a greater scale, Jing is Body, the very essence of it.

how can it be expendable??

 

 

I don't really like to debate either. Usually it is mental masturbation.

 

I will say, though, that your view is typical and probably more folks would agree with you. But most who have had spiritual experiences like dying or getting hit by lightning, or visions where they have seen the enormity of the Divine infinite would agree with me; in the overall scheme of things we are here in this physical body for such a micro-blink of the eye whereas our energy body is immortal and infinite. It makes much more sense to me to cultivate more from the standpoint of raising the energy body vibrational frequency to effect that part of us that we carry over after this micro-blink is gone. Concentration on the physical, IMO, will never do this as it is limited by the mind-body connection. But the physical is definitely positively effected by the raising of the energy body vibration rate.

 

We will agree to disagree and that is OK!

[JustARandomPanda]

That doesn't make much sense, does it? "Guys who have a lot of sex drive, have weak sex drive." I disagree.

 

If someone feels the need to drain it 5 times a day, that's a lot of force that could be going somewhere else. If someone never feels the need to drain it, that's hardly any force at all and is going to go nowhere.

 

If you dam up a river, it'll end up taking another pathway, or maybe the reservoir will overflow. Someone who begins with a lot of jing (a fast moving river with a nearly endless source), will have much more success in whatever pathway they want to forge. Someone who has a little trickling stream could build a huge dam, yet not much will happen, because they didn't have the supply.

I disagree. It applies to anyone, since the way it works is always the same.

 

If you have sex drive, then you will of course feel the compulsion to use it...of course you will have the motivation to "chase after it." That's what "sex drive" means. Strong sexual energy is that. It's potential energy. Like a rock sitting at the top of the hill. If you give it a little push, it wants to go down...changing it to kinetic energy. A rock at the top of a one foot hill has a lot less energy than a rock at the top of Everest. It will accomplish a lot less. So the person who needs to drain it 5 times a day will have a huge mountain of potential energy to be working with...it'll be very useful if they can ever figure out how to redirect the movement.

 

Hopefully with our practices, we're kind of putting a trampoline at the bottom of the hill, so that rock will reach way up into the sky instead of going straight down into the earth.

 

But for the person who never feels the sexual need, they will have a tiny one foot mound of dirt, that the rock will just roll down and not even bounce off of the trampoline. There will be no air time!

 

Celibacy may be good, but when things are forced over a long period of time, you end up re-training the body. Retraining it to have no sex drive...no fuel to blast off! Haven't you seen the posts of people here, where they say that they were celibate for years, but when they ejaculate now they feel totally drained for weeks? That's a prime example of this.

 

Once again, this is just my view. Consider it if it makes sense. I hope I'm not too influential.

Just wanted to point out that the folks at Reuniting.info have dug up info from various medical studies which seem to support Little1's arguments at least on a hormonal and brainwave level. What is even more interesting to me is that these medical studies indicate women suffer the same effects of energy depletion as do men.

 

Which means Drew Hempel's musings may indeed be right and women who do the whole 100+ days of no masturbatory and/or orgasmic sex thing may also benefit by 'powering up' transmuting their Jing to Chi. To that end I have voluntarily turned myself into a lab rat and am trying to see if I will notice a difference. I certainly hope so at least.

 

While these medical studies are not conclusive (still too few of them) I wish there were more in this area as what's out there is intriguing. Unfortunately I suspect it won't happen because Big Pharma is unlikely to find a way to make money from it.

Edited August 28, 2009 by SereneBlue

[hyok]

Thank you everyone for your insight and perspective.

 

And thank you Ya_Mu for your kind words.

 

I think i've figured it out.

[voidisyinyang]

Well I was going to offer you an "O at a D" psychic mutual climax over the phone. You could call me -- although I don't have my own phone so it's not really practical for me. Otherwise if you need how to do youtube uploads which could video the phone transmission, thereby proving the O at a D phenomenon. haha. Of course performing for the masses is a bit much to ask and having an internal climax does not necessarily necessitate any visual signals -- at least for the first two. haha. Have fun.

 

Just wanted to point out that the folks at Reuniting.info have dug up info from various medical studies which seem to support Little1's arguments at least on a hormonal and brainwave level. What is even more interesting to me is that these medical studies indicate women suffer the same effects of energy depletion as do men.

 

Which means Drew Hempel's musings may indeed be right and women who do the whole 100+ days of no masturbatory and/or orgasmic sex thing may also benefit by 'powering up' transmuting their Jing to Chi. To that end I have voluntarily turned myself into a lab rat and am trying to see if I will notice a difference. I certainly hope so at least.

 

While these medical studies are not conclusive (still too few of them) I wish there were more in this area as what's out there is intriguing. Unfortunately I suspect it won't happen because Big Pharma is unlikely to find a way to make money from it.

[Aetherous]

Just wanted to point out that the folks at Reuniting.info have dug up info from various medical studies which seem to support Little1's arguments at least on a hormonal and brainwave level. What is even more interesting to me is that these medical studies indicate women suffer the same effects of energy depletion as do men.

 

Lets see the info. You may be misinterpreting it.

 

Which means Drew Hempel's musings may indeed be right and women who do the whole 100+ days of no masturbatory and/or orgasmic sex thing may also benefit by 'powering up' transmuting their Jing to Chi.

 

That's what he's saying?