Marijuana Revelations; Modern Taoists in Modern China

[findley]

I started reading Cleary's Opening the Dragon Gate yesterday... will be good reading material for the trip to Beijing today/tomorrow.

I am interested, but even somewhat dubious and disappointed. I don't appreciate the 3 masters' 'training' methods for young Liping, and already I have run across some interesting metaphysical ideas presented by these taoists.

 

and then, I went on a date with a new girl, who got my high on some excellent marijuana, as a going away gift. I had these revelations, later, sitting in quiet... I'd like to run them by the Bums here for critical response.

 

 

...That modern taoists in modern china are probably running a highly secretive 'side' of things, behind the baloney of such books as 'opening the dragon gate'. I even wonder, because wang li-ping is supported by the government, if it is possible that wang li-ping is government supported perpetuation as a modern living legend.

 

I've also decided that when I meet such 'enlightened' folks, (I plan to meet wang li-pings students for guides, if not wang li-ping himself?) I should treat them in highest, dubious scrutiny. When I speak, I think I should like to do nothing more than quote the Tao Te Ching at them.

 

In this way, I should earn highest respect as a genuine student of the way. I would like to remind mr. wang that he is the 18th generation lineage holder of the dragon-gate sect of the northern (/southern??) school of the TAO. I will have to remind anyone I meet that I am not looking for a master, but for TAO-- as I am rather in genuine pursuit of awakening to Tao-- and in such pursuit I shall trust no one more so than myself. I should not venerate anyone as a master, or a sage, but rather as an equal.

 

I guess this is expressing a desire for help, and not some baloney student-master relationship.

 

I also look forward to sharing my personal revelations regarding metaphysical theory extracted from I Ching theory-- and hold their metaphysical postulations against it... see how they respond.

 

 

I'm looking for a sage-- not a master. ...you know?

 

 

Anyways, I am not going to allow myself to be another piss-ant kiss-ass who will believe whatever he is told. I am going to do my best to cling to the sagacity of the Tao Te Ching, and in this way not so much ASK for help, but EXPECT it by portraying a more-than-adequate understanding of the most basic, primal, taoist wisdom.

 

Anyways, this is all what I decided thinking about it last night; I was so high. I don't think I am going to choose to humble myself, but rather approach them with as little 'self' as possible... which may come across as offensive to them, because it means that there isn't going to be an abundance of awe and respect. (if that makes sense.)

 

what do you guys think about this approach?

[Aetherous]

A westerner who quotes the westerner's book of the Tao, to a Chinese who was raised in the actual culture? Not a good approach. The only thing that will be accomplished is you will look foolish and arrogant.

 

You don't have to accept anyone as your master, but just be respectful and treat them as if they may know more than you. Be humble and wanting to learn. When they share, then you can decide for yourself whether they're worth listening to or not. Listening to someone doesn't make you their student.

[joeblast]

Another approach that will get you nowhere. What would any of them feel they had to prove to you? They would tell you to leave or otherwise send you on your way. Keep pursuing a good weed high, or put it down and cultivate. Try and do both and after a while you're going to come to the realization that you havent made any real progress. If weed were what you thought it was, plenty more people would be doing it with that aim. That you havent seen it yet is, well, testament to your faith in weed and unfortunately, also testament to your naivete in the matter. Not trying to be offensive to ya bro, just honest.

[Wayfarer64]

I started reading Cleary's Opening the Dragon Gate yesterday... will be good reading material for the trip to Beijing today/tomorrow.

I am interested, but even somewhat dubious and disappointed. I don't appreciate the 3 masters' 'training' methods for young Liping, and already I have run across some interesting metaphysical ideas presented by these taoists.

 

and then, I went on a date with a new girl, who got my high on some excellent marijuana, as a going away gift. I had these revelations, later, sitting in quiet... I'd like to run them by the Bums here for critical response.

...That modern taoists in modern china are probably running a highly secretive 'side' of things, behind the baloney of such books as 'opening the dragon gate'. I even wonder, because wang li-ping is supported by the government, if it is possible that wang li-ping is government supported perpetuation as a modern living legend.

 

I've also decided that when I meet such 'enlightened' folks, (I plan to meet wang li-pings students for guides, if not wang li-ping himself?) I should treat them in highest, dubious scrutiny. When I speak, I think I should like to do nothing more than quote the Tao Te Ching at them.

 

In this way, I should earn highest respect as a genuine student of the way. I would like to remind mr. wang that he is the 18th generation lineage holder of the dragon-gate sect of the northern (/southern??) school of the TAO. I will have to remind anyone I meet that I am not looking for a master, but for TAO-- as I am rather in genuine pursuit of awakening to Tao-- and in such pursuit I shall trust no one more so than myself. I should not venerate anyone as a master, or a sage, but rather as an equal.

 

I guess this is expressing a desire for help, and not some baloney student-master relationship.

 

I also look forward to sharing my personal revelations regarding metaphysical theory extracted from I Ching theory-- and hold their metaphysical postulations against it... see how they respond.

I'm looking for a sage-- not a master. ...you know?

Anyways, I am not going to allow myself to be another piss-ant kiss-ass who will believe whatever he is told. I am going to do my best to cling to the sagacity of the Tao Te Ching, and in this way not so much ASK for help, but EXPECT it by portraying a more-than-adequate understanding of the most basic, primal, taoist wisdom.

 

Anyways, this is all what I decided thinking about it last night; I was so high. I don't think I am going to choose to humble myself, but rather approach them with as little 'self' as possible... which may come across as offensive to them, because it means that there isn't going to be an abundance of awe and respect. (if that makes sense.)

 

what do you guys think about this approach?

 

I am sure that you have concidered this well if not fully. Some masters may just smack ya down -if not shown the respect that they expect...My sifu expects a students' bow when I meet him- Be it on the street or where ever... This is done on one knee with a fist in hand offering of humility as ones' head is lowered in deference... I do it for traditions' sake as well as an honest show of respect.

 

Concider that when in Rome one does as Romans do- at one time that would have encluded pinching unescorted girls' rumps ... the point is - Travel exposes us to different cultures like a fire on a mountain exposes the lay of the land... So, being yrself counts most, but offending folks on their home turf is not wise.

 

Humility is a very important Taoist precept, hubris is to be mocked. So please don't go too far in yr efforts to expose the fallacies ( for you) - of some behaviors you may not "cotten to"...

 

I do wish you well on yr trip, it will - I am sure - be an eye opener...

[King Kabalabhati]

I dropped my ten-year old weed habit after beginning the Inner Smile and Tao Yin.. But still I must say there's something wrong with people who think they KNOW FOR SURE that useing the weed stunts spiritual progress. If you can cleanse your liver and brains of the herb residue, or don't smoke it all the while, God knows, it could help you.. or it could be another illusion, but a nice one. I love it still, I just don't smoke it.

[findley]

BULLSHIT !!! TAO IS NOT A CULTURE !! TAO IS NOT A TRADITION !! IF YOU ARE EXPECTED TO BOW ON A KNEE TO A MASTER HE IS AN ARROGANT SLOB FOOL AND YOU ARE A PISS ANT-SLOB FOOL !!

 

I WILL MOCK ANY SO-CALLED TAOIST SAGE WHO GIVES MORE CREDIT TO TRADITION OR CULTURE THAN TAO AS A FOOL AND A LIAR

 

 

 

...I only use marijuana for fun, and for its experimental value. I am not expecting it to get me enlightened. I think you would be wrong to dismiss it as useless.

[sheng zhen]

what do you guys think about this approach?

The problem wih drug-induced realizations is that they are completely stripped of reality. They have no substance.

 

So why dont you save up money, go see Wang Li Ping, see how you will react when you see him, and then tell us how your approached worked out?

 

Usually people have a lot of VERY "high level" thoughts about how they are going to act in the presence ot the master and their own (important) role in the masters life, but when it comes to it they dont do anything. Simply because the realizations they had from drug-experiences lack all sense of reality.

[VCraigP]

BULLSHIT !!! TAO IS NOT A CULTURE !! TAO IS NOT A TRADITION !! IF YOU ARE EXPECTED TO BOW ON A KNEE TO A MASTER HE IS AN ARROGANT SLOB FOOL AND YOU ARE A PISS ANT-SLOB FOOL !!

 

I WILL MOCK ANY SO-CALLED TAOIST SAGE WHO GIVES MORE CREDIT TO TRADITION OR CULTURE THAN TAO AS A FOOL AND A LIAR

 

Let us know how that works for you.

 

Respect.

have it for yourself, have it for others.

 

I was raised to automatically give respect to my elders (this lesson from my martial arts teacher).

 

Respect doesn't take anything away from you.

 

In the end if you have no respect for anything a practitioner of the Tao has to offer, why bother going to China?

You already have all you need apparently.

 

Craig

[Pietro]

I started reading Cleary's Opening the Dragon Gate yesterday... will be good reading material for the trip to Beijing today/tomorrow.

I am interested, but even somewhat dubious and disappointed. I don't appreciate the 3 masters' 'training' methods for young Liping, and already I have run across some interesting metaphysical ideas presented by these taoists.

 

and then, I went on a date with a new girl, who got my high on some excellent marijuana, as a going away gift. I had these revelations, later, sitting in quiet... I'd like to run them by the Bums here for critical response.

...That modern taoists in modern china are probably running a highly secretive 'side' of things, behind the baloney of such books as 'opening the dragon gate'. I even wonder, because wang li-ping is supported by the government, if it is possible that wang li-ping is government supported perpetuation as a modern living legend.

 

I've also decided that when I meet such 'enlightened' folks, (I plan to meet wang li-pings students for guides, if not wang li-ping himself?) I should treat them in highest, dubious scrutiny. When I speak, I think I should like to do nothing more than quote the Tao Te Ching at them.

 

In this way, I should earn highest respect as a genuine student of the way. I would like to remind mr. wang that he is the 18th generation lineage holder of the dragon-gate sect of the northern (/southern??) school of the TAO. I will have to remind anyone I meet that I am not looking for a master, but for TAO-- as I am rather in genuine pursuit of awakening to Tao-- and in such pursuit I shall trust no one more so than myself. I should not venerate anyone as a master, or a sage, but rather as an equal.

 

I guess this is expressing a desire for help, and not some baloney student-master relationship.

 

I also look forward to sharing my personal revelations regarding metaphysical theory extracted from I Ching theory-- and hold their metaphysical postulations against it... see how they respond.

I'm looking for a sage-- not a master. ...you know?

Anyways, I am not going to allow myself to be another piss-ant kiss-ass who will believe whatever he is told. I am going to do my best to cling to the sagacity of the Tao Te Ching, and in this way not so much ASK for help, but EXPECT it by portraying a more-than-adequate understanding of the most basic, primal, taoist wisdom.

 

Anyways, this is all what I decided thinking about it last night; I was so high. I don't think I am going to choose to humble myself, but rather approach them with as little 'self' as possible... which may come across as offensive to them, because it means that there isn't going to be an abundance of awe and respect. (if that makes sense.)

 

what do you guys think about this approach?

 

I was raised in the after ''68 culture. Where I would treat everybody as peer. I don't know how many great occasions to learn I burned with my arrogant silly approach. I was also at times liked as masters are also really annoyed with people who put on a mask with them. There is a middle way.

 

I suggest you read the hexagram 4 about 100 times.

Read it all, read it again. Read all the lines. Read different translations. Meditate on that, a lot.

[Wayfarer64]

BULLSHIT !!! TAO IS NOT A CULTURE !! TAO IS NOT A TRADITION !! IF YOU ARE EXPECTED TO BOW ON A KNEE TO A MASTER HE IS AN ARROGANT SLOB FOOL AND YOU ARE A PISS ANT-SLOB FOOL !!

 

I WILL MOCK ANY SO-CALLED TAOIST SAGE WHO GIVES MORE CREDIT TO TRADITION OR CULTURE THAN TAO AS A FOOL AND A LIAR ...

 

You are being very rude in this retort. I am not a sage in the first place. & I meant to be of help. You reply in anger. I hope yr insurance policies are paid up... you will have yr ass handed to you if you address anyone in such a manner in person...yr hubris is astounding and likely to get ya into serious trouble.

 

I do not "give more credit" to tradition and culture than to what you may call "the Tao"... a missusage of the word actually-it can not be so named....

 

It may be of some small help to you to realize that every culture and tradition has its place within the Tao as well...Respecting others' ways is not demeaning to ones' own person if done with honest humility. Not to worry Grass-hopper...Being hopped up on grass means little to most here...

 

 

Also, the arrogant slob fool of a Grand Master you speak of could not care less what yr views are on the subject of his heritage and teachings, but he would still kick yr ass for the sheer rudeness of the delivery...

 

I for one find several herbs encluding hemp quite useful for relaxing.

[Old Man Contradiction]

I've heard a south american shaman once say to not believe in anything, because as time goes by only the truth will continue to be. That even goes for the Tao Te Ching. I don't see any reason to go to China inorder to be disrespectful to any sage/master you find, but if you approach things in a different way, say.... you just listen, without building new belief systems.... I believe they will appreciate you for this.

[findley]

oh my

 

I get hot-headed. I just would never respect a man who expected me to bow. I would mock him first, his tradition second, and then maybe recite a TTC passage. =p

 

I never really get angry or disrespectful in person. which is a shame, because it would make life entertaining... but I am not strong enough in TAO to really float like that... I would likely only politely challenge him with TTC.

 

-I really doubt I would ever have even the opportunity to get frustrated with a genuine sage. I only have culture and tradition to hold in contempt; a man who walks the Tao, I am sure, will feel the same way.

 

I really like this face

 

hey, thank you pietro thank you very much..! I havent consulted the I Ching in so long... I almost forgot to bring my Alfred Huang edition ! where is it....

 

shen zheng you are such a fool =p shut up

[Wayfarer64]

oh my

 

I get hot-headed. I just would never respect a man who expected me to bow. I would mock him first, his tradition second, and then maybe recite a TTC passage. =p

 

I never really get angry or disrespectful in person. which is a shame, because it would make life entertaining... but I am not strong enough in TAO to really float like that... I would likely only politely challenge him with TTC.

 

-I really doubt I would ever have even the opportunity to get frustrated with a genuine sage. I only have culture and tradition to hold in contempt; a man who walks the Tao, I am sure, will feel the same way.I really like this face

 

hey, thank you pietro thank you very much..! I havent consulted the I Ching in so long... I almost forgot to bring my Alfred Huang edition ! where is it....

 

shen zheng you are such a fool =p shut up

 

The Confucians would disagree most whole-heartedly with yr contemptuous assessment of what a man who walks the Tao is...

 

And do not expect much respect from us here until you can control that hot-headedness a bit.

[Marblehead]

oh my

 

I get hot-headed. I just would never respect a man who expected me to bow. I would mock him first, then after you picked your ass up off the ground, his tradition second, and after picking your ass up off the ground a second time and then maybe recite a TTC passage once you caught your breath and could actually speak. =p

 

I never really get angry or disrespectful in person. which is a shame, because it would make life entertaining... but I am not strong enough in TAO to really float like that... I would likely only politely challenge him with TTC.

 

-I really doubt I would ever have even the opportunity to get frustrated with a genuine sage. I only have culture and tradition to hold in contempt; a man who walks the Tao, I am sure, will feel the same way.

 

I really like this face

 

hey, thank you pietro thank you very much..! I havent consulted the I Ching in so long... I almost forgot to bring my Alfred Huang edition ! where is it....

 

shen zheng you are such a fool =p shut up

 

Hi Findley,

 

I made a couple bolded inserts above.

 

Happy Trails!

[sheng zhen]

shen zheng you are such a fool =p shut up

I get that all the time from drug-deluded people

[Encephalon]

oh my

 

I get hot-headed. I just would never respect a man who expected me to bow. I would mock him first, his tradition second, and then maybe recite a TTC passage. =p

 

I never really get angry or disrespectful in person. which is a shame, because it would make life entertaining... but I am not strong enough in TAO to really float like that... I would likely only politely challenge him with TTC.

 

-I really doubt I would ever have even the opportunity to get frustrated with a genuine sage. I only have culture and tradition to hold in contempt; a man who walks the Tao, I am sure, will feel the same way.

 

I really like this face

 

hey, thank you pietro thank you very much..! I havent consulted the I Ching in so long... I almost forgot to bring my Alfred Huang edition ! where is it....

 

shen zheng you are such a fool =p shut up

 

The above rant is about as ill-conceived, belligerent, and delusional as I have witnessed in here. It reminds me of a line I heard years ago; the corruption of the greatest good becomes the greatest evil.

 

To maintain civility in the midst of discourse about spiritual matters just seems the most fundamental and requisite act before anything of any value can take form. Taoist psychology points to selflessness - "as selfless as melting ice." The point is to allow the Tao to subsume your ego until you are one with it. The willingness to bitch out and curse others in here is so diametrically opposed to an authentic spiritual trajectory that I can only assume a fundamental absence of knowledge of the role of ego in identity formation.

 

"Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism" was a popular book about 25 years ago. The ego will try and hijack anything that serves its own ends. When it utilizes spiritual matters on behalf of its own selfish ends, the ego only becomes bigger, more bombast, more delusional, less sensitive to nuance and authentic insight.

[Wayfarer64]

I get that all the time from drug-deluded people

 

Its the drug Diluted folks I worry about- they seem so nebulous...

[King Kabalabhati]

It is true culture is a vampire, that's the Rastaman point of view. Attachment to culture causes great suffering and often misleads the spiritual trod. Just ask Dalai Lama, he seems ready to see his own culture die if its time has come.

 

There's no point in bowing to culture. Culture is a corpse that we drag around until it really starts to stink and we have to drop it.

 

Now this doesn't mean I'm gonna go pick a fight with some Chinese Gungfu Master.. It's all just a cleansing stream of thought. Give thanks for the agitation

Edited August 24, 2009 by King Kabalabhati

[joeblast]

...I only use marijuana for fun, and for its experimental value. I am not expecting it to get me enlightened. I think you would be wrong to dismiss it as useless.

I've never dismissed it as useless. What's "experimental value" mean to you?

[gendao]

Lol, watch out for that pothead paranoia..

 

Look, I don't know if WLP is all he's hyped up to be, but he definitely has some real ability at the least. One student I met said when she first met him, he instantly told her everything that she had done from way back in her youth... And was entirely accurate. Now, such an instant personal cold read reveals a deep perception and would be very hard to fake.

 

So, I wouldn't dismiss him as just some "Commy stooge." In fact, he didn't exactly paint a glowing portrait of all the years of Commy turmoil in his book. At the very least (from what I can tell), he's a very generous, compassionate guy with at least several of his 3rd eyes open. And is very likely much, much more than that, too.

 

Normally, I wouldn't advise against your unorthodox approach. Who knows, sometimes unconventional manners can generate a positive response. But seeing as how WLP is just reaching out to the West for the "first" time right now, I don't think it may be so wise to make a bad impression on him and possibly spoil it for you and the rest of us at this juncture. I would advise to keep your skepticism to yourself for now, but remain open to the possibility he is legit and then judge him for yourself accordingly. Just let your mind be made from the facts and anecdotal evidence.

 

BTW, his book is just based on his actual bio - so I'm not sure how literally I would take all the training in it. Certainly, much of his publically-taught, actual methods are simply meditative.

Edited August 24, 2009 by vortex

[Sloppy Zhang]

If you showed up quoting only TTC passages and trying to "remind them of who they should be", then I'm sure they'll smile and nod and be like, "you are right." Then you'll walk away from that experience with.... ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

 

What makes a cup useful? What's important in a house? EMPTINESS. You can't pour anything into a full cup, and you can't live in a solid block of wood or stone.

 

If you show up with all the answers, you'll never learn. What's the point in even going since you already know what they should act like?

 

As to the bowing and stuff.... there's nothing wrong with showing respect. I'm not particularly religious, but if I were to say, meet the Pope, I'd probably bow and kneel and kiss the ring or whatever. Same with the queen of England, yadda yadda yadda. It's not because I think anyone is inherently better than anyone else. It's just that it doesn't bother me.

 

And it shouldn't bother you. If you think everyone is equal, and you need to go out of your way to spit in the face of various people in respected positions to do it, then you obviously aren't very comfortable with yourself. It's not a big deal unless you make it a big deal. There's nothing wrong with being respectful, especially since an important person (whether you regard them as such or not), is taking time out of their busy day (there are plenty of piss-ants who would love to kiss their feet and give them their children, you know) to spend time with YOU, so at the very least you could honor the customs.

 

But you were high at the time, so it's all good

[findley]

Marijuana may lead to a greater capacity for far-out, abstract thought. Induced mania. increased sensitivity to all sorts of cool things.

 

It is a psychedelic. Of course, experimentation with psychedelics should be considered of immense value. Dangerous? sure... but alchemy always has been.

 

Hey, thank you vortex... that might make things easy, eh? =)

 

 

Blasto, you are apparantly operating from a point of view that the 'ego' is an enemy. I think that in Taoist philosophy, it is as aspect of the P'o soul. (We have two souls: P'o and Hun, right?) -I do not want to give more credit to one than the other. I want both to be highly developed.

 

That means a highly developed ego is essential to my Taoist cultivation.

 

SO don't give me any bullshit about your so-called 'taoist psychology' points to... especially after you comment on 'greatest goods' and 'greatest evils'. what do you know about 'taoism' BAH ! idea's that the EGO should be . THE EGO SHOULD BE FREE.

 

 

'Tao subsume your ego until you are one with it' YOU ARE SO DUMB AND ARROGANT BLASTO DO YOU KNOW HOW STUPID THAT SOUNDS. WHAT MAKES YOU BELIEVE YOU ARE NOT ONE WITH TAO ALREADY? THE EGO IS NOT THE GATEWAY TO AWAKENING TO TAO.

 

BLASTO YOU ARE A DUMBASS. READ YOUR STUPID BOOK ';CUTTING THROUGH SPIRITUAL MATERIALISIM. TAKE A SERIOUS LOOK AT YOURSELF AND YOUR PHILOSOPHY.

 

 

 

It reminds me of a line I heard years ago; the corruption of the greatest good becomes the greatest evil.

 

 

i want to be the fucking devil you dumbshit asshole

[joeblast]

It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. Edited August 24, 2009 by joeblast

[findley]

you know, I'mthinking the same thing.

 

but eh

[宁]

there's this technique, in which you are all alone and nobody tells you what to do.

instead, you experiment what you wish, when you wish it.

 

it's usually performed in the bathroom, with a couple of nude pictures in front.

i'll let you guess what it is.

cuz this is what you are doing...

 

 

you need not worry.

i have the feeling you'll get exactly what you're looking for in china..............

 

 

oh my

 

edit: shorting the long quoted imbecile post

Edited August 24, 2009 by Little1