Marijuana Revelations; Modern Taoists in Modern China

[Zhuo Ming-Dao]

 

I've also decided that when I meet such 'enlightened' folks, (I plan to meet wang li-pings students for guides, if not wang li-ping himself?) I should treat them in highest, dubious scrutiny. When I speak, I think I should like to do nothing more than quote the Tao Te Ching at them.

 

In this way, I should earn highest respect as a genuine student of the way. I would like to remind mr. wang that he is the 18th generation lineage holder of the dragon-gate sect of the northern (/southern??) school of the TAO. I will have to remind anyone I meet that I am not looking for a master, but for TAO-- as I am rather in genuine pursuit of awakening to Tao-- and in such pursuit I shall trust no one more so than myself. I should not venerate anyone as a master, or a sage, but rather as an equal.

 

Findley, if you go to China and try to show that you know something by quoting the TTC at someone IN ENGLISH as if you understood it clearly, you will get laughed out of the country. There is so much nuance that is totally lost in any translation that you will be out of your league if you take this approach.

 

Also, bowing might not be part of the Tao (whatever that means ), but it is a big part of Asian culture. And seeing as you are in China, it might be wise to not be deliberately rude to the people that you want to convince to teach you - just like you would not really want to belch in someone's face when you are trying to make friends. Granted, China is more into the half bow/nod, which might be more gentle on ones pride. When I lived in Japan I had to do full bow to practically everyone that I met and a full kowtow prostration in more spiritual contexts. Humbling oneself is good for the soul, believe it or not. The Buddha in me acknowledges the Buddha in you, and all that jazz.

[Martial Development]

...what do you guys think about this approach?

 

Dude...that is so deep...Wang Li-Ping should be taking lessons from you man! Remember to ask for payment upfront, those wily "masters" cannot be trusted to pay afterwards...after you blow their minds with TAO. If they refuse to pay you it just proves they are fakes.

 

Hey man, seriously...looking foward to your manuscript...Opening the Findley Gate...fuckin a.

[宁]

Dude...that is so deep...Wang Li-Ping should be taking lessons from you man! Remember to ask for payment upfront, those wily "masters" cannot be trusted to pay afterwards...after you blow their minds with TAO. If they refuse to pay you it just proves they are fakes.

 

Hey man, seriously...looking foward to your manuscript...Opening the Findley Gate...fuckin a.

 

[joeblast]

nothing personal, but you need more meditative experience / awareness of the body and subtle energy channels.

there is something wrong with using pot to facilitate meditation. you will hit a ceiling and not go beyond it.

I think these guys will have to figure that glass ceiling out for themselves, man.

[hyok]

I think these guys will have to figure that glass ceiling out for themselves, man.

 

Alright, Fine you can have your opinions on MJ and its effects on practitioners. Everyone will have an opinion and nobody will know for sure about anything because everyone is themselves and reacts differently. So -- truth -- NONE OF US KNOW FOR SURE. MJ Case - settled.

 

BTW - what is this ceiling? Please explain in detail!

 

But if we look deeper within the responses that pattern themselves behind Mikaelz expressions, (which joe_blast seems to be oblivious of), we can see that Mikaelz ENJOYS communicating information in a way where HE FEELS he's better than the other person. Like he's above that person. This is called "subtle arrogance"

 

Notice the pattern, "Don't take it personally...", "no offense...", "why do you take it so personally..."

 

Hey jerk, I AM A PERSON with feelings and so is everyone else on this board, so naturally people take things personally when you're talking about them. Everyone is like this. Nobody is not like this. Mikaelz, i'm pleading with you -- please try to understand that people DO take things personally and that you CAN fashion your statements in a way that is more FRIENDLY and SUGGESTIVE instead of indoctrining shiet as if you're an absolute authority.

 

(PS - personally i could care less if you improve yourself, but at this point it's effecting me and my mood so i feel compelled to correct your MISTAKES, because that's what they are -- MISTAKES.)

 

(PPS - if it makes you feel any better, Mikaelz, i would rather be trapped on an island with you than your Buddhist friend who trolls this site)

Edited August 25, 2009 by hyok

[Wayfarer64]

I think these guys will have to figure that glass ceiling out for themselves, man.

 

Wait a minute -are you saying there are job opportunities being missed by herb-smokers? Slackers shudder in their angst at that...

 

They need to unionize and smash through these imposed impedaments to any further getting "higher"...

 

It seems transcendance is a big commodity around here... step right up and get yr red-hot enlightenment boys & girls, just do not do what we proscribe and you will get there -We promise!

 

Please, do not worry you pot heads out there you WILL -or already have figured out where yr are at...Because we all know where ever you're at... there you are.

 

Now, please pass the brownies my cartoons are coming on...

Edited August 25, 2009 by Wayfarer64

[King Kabalabhati]

There are Rastamen high in the hills who live a life that's so much more natural and more in tune with Tao than any of you computer geeks who half-willingly ride on the White Supremacy bandwagon and think you know for certain the effects of weed on every person.. Not meaning to get personal, I also use the computer a lot and I live a Western life even if a bit more "bohemic" one than most.. But the arrogance towards herb is not justified. Who did say it's alla bout the intention? Well here it may apply very well. If you and your friends can't get truely high when you're high it doesn't mean nobody could. So respect pleeeease. And as I said I don't smoke anymore, but this kind of "knowing" makes me wanna knot know you.

 

Well, I'm not really that angry but you get my point.

[Pietro]

There are Rastamen high in the hills who live a life that's so much more natural and more in tune with Tao than any of you computer geeks who half-willingly ride on the White Supremacy bandwagon and think you know for certain the effects of weed on every person.. Not meaning to get personal, I also use the computer a lot and I live a Western life even if a bit more "bohemic" one than most.. But the arrogance towards herb is not justified. Who did say it's alla bout the intention? Well here it may apply very well. If you and your friends can't get truely high when you're high it doesn't mean nobody could. So respect pleeeease. And as I said I don't smoke anymore, but this kind of "knowing" makes me wanna knot know you.

 

Well, I'm not really that angry but you get my point.

 

White Supremacy bandwagon?????

What the fuck have you been smoking?

[Wayfarer64]

White Supremacy bandwagon?????

What the fuck have you been smoking?

 

The White Supremacists I've (unhappily) encountered did every drug they could get their ignorant little hands on...Most of them where homosexuals too- but closeted - full of self-loathing... gay-gay bashers...

 

Hypocracy is rife within the ranks of those who disparage & denigrate others' natural traits and inclinations...

 

 

But yeah-that reference is pretty sketchy...

[King Kabalabhati]

I've been smokin lots and lots of weeeeed in my life, and it's made me stupid enough to admit I really don't know much..

 

I'm talking about cultural racism here.. Our societies are built on that. We're on the bandwagon and still enjoying the fruits of slavery. White supremacists use every means they can to put down black cultures (also including Indian/south american etc), take weed for example. I know some smokers here and there are pretty stuck because of it, but for many it's a native healing herb and they've integrated it into their culture, knowing also how to dispel the toxins from their bodies because they are in tune with nature, communicating with plants in profound ways. Or at least this is what I've read and I have no proof that it's not true so I keep my perception open about it.

 

So to me it's too much to swallow when someone is so "in the know" about it when they might as well admit they dont know shit and that their world view is (or seems) forking narrow.

 

But most of all I guess I just wanted to stir the anthill a bit further

 

 

 

 

The White Supremacists I've (unhappily) encountered did every drug they could get their ignorant little hands on...Most of them where homosexuals too- but closeted - full of self-loathing... gay-gay bashers...

 

Hypocracy is rife within the ranks of those who disparage & denigrate others' natural traits and inclinations...

But yeah-that reference is pretty sketchy...

Edited August 25, 2009 by King Kabalabhati

[Wayfarer64]

I've been smokin lots and lots of weeeeed in my life, and it's made me stupid enough to admit I really don't know much..

 

I'm talking about cultural racism here.. Our societies are built on that. We're on the bandwagon and still enjoying the fruits of slavery. White supremacists use every means they can to put down black cultures (also including Indian/south american etc), take weed for example. I know some smokers here and there are pretty stuck because of it, but for many it's a native healing herb and they've integrated it into their culture, knowing also how to dispel the toxins from their bodies because they are in tune with nature, communicating with plants in profound ways. Or at least this is what I've read and I have no proof that it's not true so I keep my perception open about it.

 

So to me it's too much to swallow when someone is so "in the know" about it when they might as well admit they dont know shit and that their world view is (or seems) forking narrow.

 

But most of all I guess I just wanted to stir the anthill a bit further

 

Now you've filled in the sketch to be a well draw picture of what the world is up against! Political & Social power (in the hands it has usually been in)...subjects all natural phenomina to the naging inclinations of bored and ruthless folks...Who have tended to be Ignorant and forked of tongues with narrowness of mind to boot...Casting aspersions on what they do not grok... Just like the rest of us - but they got power - how would we (naturalists) do with power?

[joeblast]

I still dont know how race got dragged into this. irrelevant! granted this thread has had the coherence of several bong hits...

 

some of you have read too much into my words...its a little irksome when that happens, but there's no verbiage that can cover all vantage points simultaneously. if you are serious about cultivation, if you are serious about attaining enlightenment, you will not get there being a regular toker; unless you put it down for long enough to realize the difference doing very deep practices while entirely clean vs "its ok, I still make progress," you wont be able to differentiate between the transparent and the translucent. not saying you cant spark up every once in a while and follow your own trail and make your own level of progress or however you want to extrapolate the subject - but serious is serious, like a top professional would be about his sport, trade, what have you. how serious are you - or, how much "fun" are you out to have in life, or are you thinking you can have your cake and eat it too?

[King Kabalabhati]

Just spicing this up a bit..

 

You could be right that regular toking limits progress in the higher stages of Tao. I'm sure I'll never find out if that's true

[Encephalon]

I still dont know how race got dragged into this. irrelevant! granted this thread has had the coherence of several bong hits...

 

some of you have read too much into my words...its a little irksome when that happens, but there's no verbiage that can cover all vantage points simultaneously. if you are serious about cultivation, if you are serious about attaining enlightenment, you will not get there being a regular toker; unless you put it down for long enough to realize the difference doing very deep practices while entirely clean vs "its ok, I still make progress," you wont be able to differentiate between the transparent and the translucent. not saying you cant spark up every once in a while and follow your own trail and make your own level of progress or however you want to extrapolate the subject - but serious is serious, like a top professional would be about his sport, trade, what have you. how serious are you - or, how much "fun" are you out to have in life, or are you thinking you can have your cake and eat it too?

 

Have to agree with you here. The MJ molecule can be an aid, but only with very conservative doses and specifically defined goals. I think it can grant users a deeper level of relaxation, which is the key to just about anything, whether it's a physical endeavor or practicing a musical instrument. Even Huston Smith acknowledged the potential of hallucinogenics on the spiritual path, but he did insist that only one experience was really necessary for the fertile mind. But toking as a lifestyle? When, ostensibly, you are seeking a higher order of consciousness? Sorry. It won't work, no matter how "botanically friendly" a culture may be.

Edited August 25, 2009 by Blasto

[Pietro]

I've been smokin lots and lots of weeeeed in my life, and it's made me stupid enough to admit I really don't know much..

 

I'm talking about cultural racism here.. Our societies are built on that. We're on the bandwagon and still enjoying the fruits of slavery. White supremacists use every means they can to put down black cultures (also including Indian/south american etc), take weed for example. I know some smokers here and there are pretty stuck because of it, but for many it's a native healing herb and they've integrated it into their culture, knowing also how to dispel the toxins from their bodies because they are in tune with nature, communicating with plants in profound ways. Or at least this is what I've read and I have no proof that it's not true so I keep my perception open about it.

 

So to me it's too much to swallow when someone is so "in the know" about it when they might as well admit they dont know shit and that their world view is (or seems) forking narrow.

 

But most of all I guess I just wanted to stir the anthill a bit further

 

Most people here were criticising Findley for smoking pots for the damage that it does to the body.

 

You took those people and called them racist, and explained that native people used pot by being able to dispell the toxins. In this you acknowledged that there are indeed toxins.

But Findley is not (to my knowledge) a native american, or someone who has been taught how to use them without being damaged by them. So the critics still stand. In fact they stand even firmer now that even you have acknowledged that using them can be damaging. While in the meantime your critics of saying that people that use pots are racists seem to be in even more flimsy grounds. I understand you might like to stir the "anthrill", but there are real people on the other side of the computer. And a bit more discernment in writing would be appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Pietro

[Encephalon]

Most people here were criticising Findley for smoking pots for the damage that it does to the body.

 

You took those people and called them racist, and explained that native people used pot by being able to dispell the toxins. In this you acknowledged that there are indeed toxins.

But Findley is not (to my knowledge) a native american, or someone who has been taught how to use them without being damaged by them. So the critics still stand. In fact they stand even firmer now that even you have acknowledged that using them can be damaging. While in the meantime your critics of saying that people that use pots are racists seem to be in even more flimsy grounds. I understand you might like to stir the "anthrill", but there are real people on the other side of the computer. And a bit more discernment in writing would be appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Pietro

 

 

Do you think critical thinking is much in evidence in this forum? I'm not sure what CT models exist in European academia, but in the states one of our most prominent models is here.

 

http://www.criticalthinking.org

 

I would love to open up a thread - "Is CT in evidence in Taobums?" It would be great to explore the common ground between CT and Taoism (and there is a great deal of common ground, in my opinion), but Taoism is also rife with metaphysics. And I'm not opposed to metaphysics per se, as long as people recognize it as such. If it's beyond the realm of verifiability and falsifiablity, a subject tends to move toward the metaphysical. But the moment you move into the subject of internal physiological states i.e., "chi," CT reveals its limits.

 

If I did start a CT thread, I'd probably get hammered with accusations of veering off the Taoist path, which would hurt my feelings and then I'd have to go smoke large amounts of marijuana and indulge in self pity.

 

Just kidding.

Edited August 25, 2009 by Blasto

[King Kabalabhati]

Did I criticise people who use pot as racisst? Oh well, the point I didn't have I was trying to make.

 

Sorry to intervene, nothing to see here. Yes pot is toxic, but Cheech smoked dogshit. Goodnite everybummy!

[Sunya]

But if we look deeper within the responses that pattern themselves behind Mikaelz expressions, (which joe_blast seems to be oblivious of), we can see that Mikaelz ENJOYS communicating information in a way where HE FEELS he's better than the other person. Like he's above that person. This is called "subtle arrogance"

 

Notice the pattern, "Don't take it personally...", "no offense...", "why do you take it so personally..."

 

Hey jerk, I AM A PERSON with feelings and so is everyone else on this board, so naturally people take things personally when you're talking about them. Everyone is like this. Nobody is not like this. Mikaelz, i'm pleading with you -- please try to understand that people DO take things personally and that you CAN fashion your statements in a way that is more FRIENDLY and SUGGESTIVE instead of indoctrining shiet as if you're an absolute authority.

 

(PS - personally i could care less if you improve yourself, but at this point it's effecting me and my mood so i feel compelled to correct your MISTAKES, because that's what they are -- MISTAKES.)

 

 

dude......put down the bong, and relax.. lol. you're getting all worked up because I said you need to deepen your awareness through meditation? i'm sorry if that hurt your feelings. since you still grasp at a self by latching onto these negative feelings of pride, i'm not going to cater to your ego who feels threatened. notice that those emotions are illusory. I understand that it may not be easy to hear that you have work to do or that you may be wrong... i don't like it either. the I being the ego. though there is a deeper aspect that recognizes that i don't know everything and listening to advice is a good idea.

 

I'm not giving you advice about fixing a truck or breeding horses, or something else that I have no clue about. I've smoked a lot of pot, so i'm just giving some friendly advice. when I say don't take this personally I mean it. i'm not attacking you. the real you is infinite potentiality, not the guy who gets defensive over the internet because someone told him pot won't make him a Buddha

Edited August 25, 2009 by mikaelz

[chicultivation]

But if we look deeper within the responses that pattern themselves behind Mikaelz expressions, (which joe_blast seems to be oblivious of), we can see that Mikaelz ENJOYS communicating information in a way where HE FEELS he's better than the other person. Like he's above that person. This is called "subtle arrogance"

 

Unfortunate but true. He will now scream at me of being critical without ever contributing, and that is fine. But it is funny that he does not take criticism or advice directed towards him the same way he expects others to. Who are we kidding about with infinite potentiality, attacking the ego and not the person etc. etc.?

 

Mikaelz, who or what gives you the authority to question and attack other's ego? Why are you trying to play the role of a Bodhisattva or a Guru when you are clearly not ready for it? Get the colon cleanse my friend and try to be polite to others to the best possible extent. Being rude the way you are only reflects on bad upbringing and lack of manners, not spiritual progress or the ability to look beyond egoistic attachment. You need to ground yourself and realize you are in no position to criticize and correct others, much less yourself. Obnoxious words and slander do not help anyone, whatever be the intent. You are simply confusing your bad behavior with something grand and noble, repeatedly.

 

Ok, now you can shout at me

Edited August 25, 2009 by chicultivation

[Wayfarer64]

I had a heck of a lot of fun on this thread... drug-free kicks. I sure hope no ones' feelings were hurt through this stufff....Most of it seemed pretty whimsical....Starting with ganja ignited extrapolations on how to bring realizations to wise old men of how to accept their place in the world!!!

 

Come on ...does anyone else think this thread was a hoot from the get-go?

 

And I smoked a Thai stick in Change Rai -that got me pretty freaking close to Bubba or Budda -one of those guys...

Edited August 25, 2009 by Wayfarer64

[chicultivation]

ganja ignited extrapolations on how to bring realizations to wise old men of how to accept their place in the world!!!

 

Wayfarer, jokes apart in a deeper sense, is this not disturbing to an extent? The way spiritual progress or realization is seen as unrelated to virtue, courtesy and respectful behavior?

[Sunya]

Unfortunate but true. He will now scream at me of being critical without ever contributing, and that is fine. But it is funny that he does not take criticism or advice directed towards him the same way he expects others to. Who are we kidding about with infinite potentiality, attacking the ego and not the person etc. etc.?

 

Mikaelz, who or what gives you the authority to question and attack other's ego? Why are you trying to play the role of a Bodhisattva or a Guru when you are clearly not ready for it? Get the colon cleanse my friend and try to be polite to others to the best possible extent. Being rude the way you are only reflects on bad upbringing and lack of manners, not spiritual progress or the ability to look beyond egoistic attachment. You need to ground yourself and realize you are in no position to criticize and correct others, much less yourself. Obnoxious words and slander do not help anyone, whatever be the intent. You are simply confusing your bad behavior with something grand and noble, repeatedly.

 

Ok, now you can shout at me

 

 

my oh my.. so much anger directed towards me.

 

so thats your 9th post and the 3rd one directed towards me. thanks I guess. i still don't know who you are though.

 

I ask for advice regularly on this board. the veterans here will know. I PM people regularly asking for advice, and make threads. I used to do that a lot more. i've been here for 2 years. so I ask and I give. i'm not a Guru but when someone has an issue i'm familar with.. i'm not afraid to voice my opinion to try to help them.

 

how was I obnoxious? seriously guys, lay off the soap operas.

 

He will now scream at me of being critical without ever contributing, and that is fine

 

I don't scream... I just wonder who you are

 

usually people contribute to a community before becoming the virtue police. if you have a problem with me you can PM me. and we can talk privately about your issue with my attitude. others can do the same too. i'm not here to offend anybody. that's never my intention. frankly too much time is spent creating a dramatic scene here that I wonder about some peoples' intentions of posting here.

Edited August 26, 2009 by mikaelz

[chicultivation]

And yr insistant sniping is good for our bodies/minds?

 

 

Please read through various other threads where you have posted. There is at least one person who has a problem with you in each of those threads. Do you really think you cannot try to word your posts a little better to not come across as a total jerk? Or all the people who think your way of posting is nasty are attached to their egos, delusional and require a piece of your mind? Please remember that you contribute equally towards this drama. I should also point out that you would get better advice if you were a little less of a jerk. Two veterans on this board mentioned they did not want to reply to your post to avoid ridicule and abusive arguments with you. If not for your attitude, these two would probably give you the best advice on cleansing. It's a pattern that is easy to notice and learn

Edited August 26, 2009 by chicultivation

[Sunya]

usually people contribute to a community before becoming the virtue police. if you have a problem with me you can PM me. and we can talk privately about your issue with my attitude. others can do the same too. i'm not here to offend anybody. that's never my intention. frankly too much time is spent creating a dramatic scene here that I wonder about some peoples' intentions of posting here.

[Mal]