Levels of healing results (incl psychic surgery)

[Tanemon]

[Tanemon]

I realize I did not put the topic in my post into a strictly Taoist or Taoist-practice framework. Was I wrong in thinking that the general topic of healing via spiritual means/methods might be a topic of interest to people here?

 

48 views and no comments... please give me a clue.

[Ya Mu]

It is a good topic but it seems to me more people are interested in semen

 

In my perspective and from a Chinese medicine perspective, there are 3 types or levels of healing.

1) low level - Concerned with the body only

2) mid-level - Concerned with the mind

3) high level - Only one goal; help person achieve his/her destiny

 

This perspective lends itself to the concept that is is NOT OK for a healer to interfere with a person's destiny. Simply throwing energy at a person does not accomplish this.

 

Must admit not a fan of reiki. I have personally worked on far too many really sick reiki "masters" who did not have any concept of sick qi.

[Tanemon]

Thanks for the reply, Ya Mu.

 

Must admit not a fan of reiki. I have personally worked on far too many really sick reiki "masters" who did not have any concept of sick qi.

That's fine. I have my own criticisms of Reiki, and I believe in open discussion.

 

In my perspective and from a Chinese medicine perspective, there are 3 types or levels of healing.

1) low level - Concerned with the body only

2) mid-level - Concerned with the mind

3) high level - Only one goal; help person achieve his/her destiny

Yes, this schema makes sense from the spiritual perspective. It makes sense to me, in terms of an ascending order.

 

Actually, this perspective has emerged in a lot of Reiki-circle discussions too.

 

This perspective lends itself to the concept that is is NOT OK for a healer to interfere with a person's destiny.

I understnd what you're saying. Yet I would add a caveat, and make another comment...

 

For one thing, most people - if they have a physical-level problem (a condition, and infection, a chronic muscle spasm, etc) - will seek help. They go to physicians (who may employ antibiotics, or surgery, or whatever), physiotherapists, chiropractors, acupunturists, etc. In all cultures and at all times, most people have availed themselves of resources like these. My question is: why can't a person, under such a circumstance, go to an effective energy healer who can work skillfully at the physical-level (or even a psychic surgeon)? Especially if he or she can locate one!

 

Can't one get fixed up physically and still pursue his destiny?

 

 

Now as to Reiki: in my experience, Reiki can (I don't say always will) be astonishingly effective in tems of cleaning out the emotions, reintegrating a person emotionally, improving mood, improving the immune functions that resist disease, inceasing the amount of ordinary daily 'get it done' energy, etc. But Reiki is not, in my experience, directable - and it is not especially efficacious on the purely physical level.

 

I experienced huge benefit - that I still feel and marvel at nine years later - from my fiirst Reiki attunement. (By the way, I'm sure it's clear that I'm not talking about a 'Reiki healing session'.) I'm grateful for it. Maybe it was just what I needed at the time.

 

But I fully realize that batting the ball is only part of playing baseball, if you get what I mean.

Edited August 28, 2009 by Tanemon

[Ya Mu]

...Can't one get fixed up physically and still pursue his destiny?...

 

Example of High Level Healing when to/when not to:

Persons Higher Level Self helps them acquire an illness/pain/etc. so they can learn a particular thing/change of path.

The question is, Do we have a right to take that away from them? From a High Level Healing perspective the answer is no. If we took it away the person may not correction 99.999% of the time will not pursue the very thing that the Higher Level self wishes to pursue. We ALWAYS work within the Will of the Light and because a person's Higher Level self is of the Light, we wouldn't make a change unless it was to the benefit of the person.

Now the question will be asked , How could the healer know? This is what I call Listening leading to Linking.

All this said, sometimes it does boil down to a simple injury/pain, we project qi then remove the sick qi then no pain.

This is what I do in clinic every day.

[Tanemon]

Example of High Level Healing when to/when not to:

Persons Higher Level Self helps them acquire an illness/pain/etc. so they can learn a particular thing/change of path.

The question is, Do we have a right to take that away from them? From a High Level Healing perspective the answer is no. If we took it away the person may not correction 99.999% of the time will not pursue the very thing that the Higher Level self wishes to pursue. We ALWAYS work within the Will of the Light and because a person's Higher Level self is of the Light, we wouldn't make a change unless it was to the benefit of the person.

Now the question will be asked , How could the healer know? This is what I call Listening leading to Linking.

All this said, sometimes it does boil down to a simple injury/pain, we project qi then remove the sick qi then no pain.

This is what I do in clinic every day.

I respect your viewpoint.

 

But allow me to tell the story of two friends.

 

One friend, Darcy, who was in his early 30s at the time, had bad back trouble after a car accident. He'd had surgery, physiotherapy, the whole modern-Western bit. Yet he was still in discomfort and often in pain. He got the problem cured in one session by a South American spiritual healer.

 

Another person I knew a little (actually the mother of a close friend of mine) had emphysema - a result of many years of cigarette smoking. But she got this condition cured in a single session by a Philippine "psychic surgeon." The cure was confirmed in the X-rays and general exams her doctors made when she returned to Canada.

 

Now, yes, she had tempted fate via her many years of smoking, her lack of exercise, and I believe also her diet. And that was sad, I'd say, and not very self-responsible. However, the experience of the cure convinced her of the power of the spirit. It convinced her that intangible realities and higher orders of reality are a fact.

 

Because I knew these people personally, I felt inclined to take their stories pretty seriously. I say this even though I've never myself had the experience of providing healing at the level I've just described.

 

Okay, now the woman (mother of my friend) was middle-aged. But with the young guy, I'd say that his cure enabled his positive destiny... I can't see that it harmed his destiny. He'd have continued to try to get relief, but he found relief through the means he found it.

[Ya Mu]

... However, the experience of the cure convinced her of the power of the spirit. It convinced her that intangible realities and higher orders of reality are a fact.

 

... I can't see that it harmed his destiny.

 

Exactly, this happens quite a lot. People are drawn to receive this type of healing in order to achieve a change of path.

But the 2nd part you write, YOU can't see but the person's Higher Level self can. This is where the Listening/Linking comes in on the part of the healer.

[Tanemon]

YOU can't see but the person's Higher Level self can. This is where the Listening/Linking comes in on the part of the healer.

Okay. Ya Mu, what is the path to listening/linking?

[Ya Mu]

Okay. Ya Mu, what is the path to listening/linking?

here

[sheng zhen]

The question is, Do we have a right to take that away from them? From a High Level Healing perspective the answer is no.

You present some real gems that are very rare, and very important, in the healing community! I love that!

[gendao]

One friend, Darcy, who was in his early 30s at the time, had bad back trouble after a car accident. He'd had surgery, physiotherapy, the whole modern-Western bit. Yet he was still in discomfort and often in pain. He got the problem cured in one session by a South American spiritual healer.

 

Another person I knew a little (actually the mother of a close friend of mine) had emphysema - a result of many years of cigarette smoking. But she got this condition cured in a single session by a Philippine "psychic surgeon." The cure was confirmed in the X-rays and general exams her doctors made when she returned to Canada.

Not every case is a "healing crisis" for spiritual growth, per se...

 

In fact, probably only a few are. Where, healing won't really work because that illness is being used by the Higher Self to effect a change in that person.

 

Anyhow, I don't think healing will really HARM anyone's destiny if so, it just probably won't work (or only provide a temporary fix) if the person is meant to suffer through that health problem on their own. Although, I guess it would also be a waste of energy in that case, so it's still better to check.

[coyote]

I'd like to know who the healers are and how to contact them. I know of John of God in Brazil, i'd like to know about a Phillipino. Thanks.

 

I just saw a long utube of shamanic healers, i think it was a link from this site....i can't remember.

 

 

I respect your viewpoint.

 

But allow me to tell the story of two friends.

 

One friend, Darcy, who was in his early 30s at the time, had bad back trouble after a car accident. He'd had surgery, physiotherapy, the whole modern-Western bit. Yet he was still in discomfort and often in pain. He got the problem cured in one session by a South American spiritual healer.

 

Another person I knew a little (actually the mother of a close friend of mine) had emphysema - a result of many years of cigarette smoking. But she got this condition cured in a single session by a Philippine "psychic surgeon." The cure was confirmed in the X-rays and general exams her doctors made when she returned to Canada.

 

Now, yes, she had tempted fate via her many years of smoking, her lack of exercise, and I believe also her diet. And that was sad, I'd say, and not very self-responsible. However, the experience of the cure convinced her of the power of the spirit. It convinced her that intangible realities and higher orders of reality are a fact.

 

Because I knew these people personally, I felt inclined to take their stories pretty seriously. I say this even though I've never myself had the experience of providing healing at the level I've just described.

 

Okay, now the woman (mother of my friend) was middle-aged. But with the young guy, I'd say that his cure enabled his positive destiny... I can't see that it harmed his destiny. He'd have continued to try to get relief, but he found relief through the means he found it.

[Tanemon]

I'd like to know who the healers are and how to contact them. I know of John of God in Brazil, i'd like to know about a Phillipino. Thanks.

 

I just saw a long utube of shamanic healers, i think it was a link from this site....i can't remember.

I'm afraid the trails have gone cold.

 

Both inidents happened 15 years ago or more. I had no personal need to follow these healers up at the time, so did not go to Brazil or the Philippines myself. I became re-interested in this whole realm of healing by spiritual/energetic means after I was attuned to Reiki in 2000. Slowly I began to wonder about the whole field, its levels of efficacy, and all of that.

 

Darcy (guy whose bad back was cured) has moved out of my region. I think Darcy was probably worked on by a predecessor of John of God. It seems that in certain places in the world (Brazil, the Philippines, China, etc) there are always advanced healers working - and generally more than one, though one may get to be especially famous at any given point in time.

Edited August 29, 2009 by Tanemon

[Zhuo Ming-Dao]

Now, yes, she had tempted fate via her many years of smoking, her lack of exercise, and I believe also her diet. And that was sad, I'd say, and not very self-responsible. However, the experience of the cure convinced her of the power of the spirit. It convinced her that intangible realities and higher orders of reality are a fact.

 

Because I knew these people personally, I felt inclined to take their stories pretty seriously. I say this even though I've never myself had the experience of providing healing at the level I've just described.

 

Okay, now the woman (mother of my friend) was middle-aged. But with the young guy, I'd say that his cure enabled his positive destiny... I can't see that it harmed his destiny. He'd have continued to try to get relief, but he found relief through the means he found it.

 

Now I can be wrong, but I have always felt that energy workers are incapable of causing those highest level physical healings. The patient's higher self is what does all of the healing and just seems to use the healer as an excuse for the healing to take place.

 

I mean, lets be honest with ourselves. Normally when I do energy healing, I remove some sick qi, put in some positive qi, make people feel better, and start a process toward increased physical or emotional health. But then, maybe twice out of all of the countless hundreds of people I have worked on over the years, I have seen miracles. I have done nothing different from my end of things, and yet they have just (with one treatment) been totally cured of some debilitating disease or physical injury.

 

And in each of these cases, and in all of the other cases of this that I have heard about, the direction of the person's life radically changes of the better. Their miracle turns them toward spiritual pursuits, or community service, or a more healthful lifestyle, or toward better interactions with those around them.

 

So clearly, yes, the direction of their lives will inevitably change when this level of healing occurs, which I suppose you could say means that their destiny changed. But this type of healing was not caused by the healer. Some aspect of the person's inner guidance system (higher self) was primed to offer them a choice, a fork in the road to continue their life as is or to begin a something new. If that miraculous healing took place, it had nothing to do with whatever the healer was doing.

 

As healers, this means that we should not strive for or expect this level of healing (but remain gently open to the possibly). These types of healing are outside of our control and can only come from the patient themselves, in my opinion.

 

 

(I know that we always say that all healing comes from the patient themselves, but for these remarkable cases, we must really accept and be humbled by this simple fact).

[Tanemon]

And in each of these cases, and in all of the other cases of this that I have heard about, the direction of the person's life radically changes of the better. Their miracle turns them toward spiritual pursuits, or community service, or a more healthful lifestyle, or toward better interactions with those around them.

 

So clearly, yes, the direction of their lives will inevitably change when this level of healing occurs, which I suppose you could say means that their destiny changed. But this type of healing was not caused by the healer. Some aspect of the person's inner guidance system (higher self) was primed to offer them a choice, a fork in the road to continue their life as is or to begin a something new. If that miraculous healing took place, it had nothing to do with whatever the healer was doing.

When you wrote about the "cases of this that I have heard about, the direction of the person's life radically changes of the better. Their miracle turns them toward spiritual pursuits, or community service, or a more healthful lifestyle, or toward better interactions with those around them. So clearly, yes, the direction of their lives will inevitably change when this level of healing occurs, which I suppose you could say means that their destiny changed." - well, yes I agree.

 

That's what I was getting at before: miracles can happen (do happen, sometimes), and too there is no sense in denigrating a physical-healing outcome (cure) simply because it's "physical". Because it can allow the healed person to go on with physical life, and to evolve and do creative, contributive things. Personally, I respect healers who can work efficaciously at all the various levels: physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual.

Edited August 30, 2009 by Tanemon

[Marblehead]

That's what I was getting at before: miracles can happen (do happen, sometimes), and too there is no sense in denigrating a physical-healing outcome (cure) simply because it's "physical". Because it can allow the person healed to go on with physical life, and to evolve and do creative, contributive things. Personally, I respect healers who can work efficaciously at all the various levels: physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual.

 

Hi All,

 

I initially ignored this thread because I tought it was another one of the mystical threads and I am not interested in those subjects.

 

Luckily for me, I was drawn to read this last post from Tanemon.

 

I hold firm to the concept of Chi healing. I have used it at all three levels Tanemon stated in his/her initial post.

 

I cannot speak regarding 'healers' as I do not know enough about them to speak intelligently. However, I do believe (from my own experiences) that a person can concentrate and direct one's Chi for the purpose of all forms of healing.

 

Of course, things like broken limbs must be repaired and set by professional medical personnel but after that Chi healing can dramatically shorten the recovery time.

 

I don't look at these events as miracles or things of that order because I believe it is a natural capability available to anyone who will take the time to learn how to concentrate and direct their Chi.

 

Happy Trails!

[Tanemon]

I hold firm to the concept of Chi healing. I have used it at all three levels Tanemon stated in his/her initial post.

 

I cannot speak regarding 'healers' as I do not know enough about them to speak intelligently. However, I do believe (from my own experiences) that a person can concentrate and direct one's Chi for the purpose of all forms of healing.

 

Of course, things like broken limbs must be repaired and set by professional medical personnel but after that Chi healing can dramatically shorten the recovery time.

 

I don't look at these events as miracles or things of that order because I believe it is a natural capability available to anyone who will take the time to learn how to concentrate and direct their Chi.

Thanks for posting this.

 

Yes, I believe there have been a lot of posts here at Tao Bums that would relate, in one way or another, to this thread. Here's one:

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showto...mp;hl=Sifu+Hata

Note the "burning" bone in his arm.

 

The word "miracle" when I use it is something I think of as going beyond the ordinary qi healings (as great and repsctable as those are - not belittling them). My friend Darcy told me about being allowed to watch the Brazilian healer do other sessions, after the one that cured his back. "Miracle" could be applied.

[de_paradise]

I find it quite amazing that through listening/linking one can perceive another's Karma. I thought only Buddhas could pierce Karma its so complicated. I thought healing everyone was the correct way to go, at least thats what I tended to glean from examples of compassion that I have read.

[Marblehead]

Thanks for posting this.

 

Yes, I believe there have been a lot of posts here at Tao Bums that would relate, in one way or another, to this thread. Here's one:

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showto...mp;hl=Sifu+Hata

Note the "burning" bone in his arm.

 

The word "miracle" when I use it is something I think of as going beyond the ordinary qi healings (as great and repsctable as those are - not belittling them). My friend Darcy told me about being allowed to watch the Brazilian healer do other sessions, after the one that cured his back. "Miracle" could be applied.

 

Yes, I probably overlooked that thread intentionally. There are some truely good healers around the world but there are a lot of phoney one out there too. For me it was probably better to not look than to look and make an unfair judgement.

 

Yeah, there are some words I try to avoid using because there are so many connotations attached. "Miracle" is one of those words. My understanding is that no matter what happens, if it happened it was perfectly natural. That it doesn't happen very often only signifies that there are not many people who know how to do it.

 

I know one lady who cured her own cancer. Most people would call that a miracle. Many have. I just said, "Way to go girl!"

 

Happy Trails!

 

 

Hi De_paradise,

 

I have no experience and almost no knowledge concerning the transmission of Chi from one person to another so I cannot speak to the subject.

 

Happy Trails!

[Guest winpro07]

Edited October 18, 2009 by winpro07

[Tanemon]

Recently received healing from a famous Phillipino faith healer, Trance medium healer, Hands on healer, Remote healing from an Psychic alchemist, and a few others. The persons most capable were the alchemist psychic and the faith healer in that order. This showed the difference between healing, manifestation and materialization. Materialization being the present tense of creation it is the harmonious effect of all the chakra in unison that allows for real change in present time-a true healing

Your points or insights are very interesting.

 

On one particular point, which is implied in the wording: the thing I'd say is this term "faith healer" is a hold-over from the 1940s & '50s, I believe. The term was applied before the concept of qi was known in the West - so, many investigators figured the results derived from the placebo effect ("the power of faith"). Journalists and other writers picked it up and used it, but I believe it has nothing to do with the cultures in which these healers have emerged. I tend to think that sort of healing is not primarily a matter of faith, or later called "placebo".

 

Having said this, I fully accept that rapport with the healer can be a positive factor in making the healing session go well, so "faith" (in the sense of giving oneself, as the recipient, to the session) can be a positive thing. But I don't feel it's the central factor. It's a lubricant.

Edited August 31, 2009 by Tanemon

[Guest winpro07]

Edited October 18, 2009 by winpro07

[Marblehead]

The faith healer is a christian from the phillipins. So, faith meant faith in christ. To my self christ is the pineal gland or the vesica formed above the pineal as an intersection of the fields of the nine palaces -the absolute above the soul self or the father. The healer him self was very effective

 

Yes. I suggest that concerning subjects like this it is not the vehicle that is important but rather the energy that the vehicle is carrying that is of importance.

 

Happy Trails!

[Tanemon]

The faith healer is a christian from the phillipins. So, faith meant faith in christ. To my self christ is the pineal gland or the vesica formed above the pineal as an intersection of the fields of the nine palaces -the absolute above the soul self or the father. The healer him self was very effective

An interesting thing about many of these very effective physical healers is that they attribute the healings to powers or entities outside of themselves. In other words, not to their own qi or qi that they have gathered through their practice.

 

I have noticed this with Native-American medicine men, Brazilian psychic surgeons, and others. Their healings frequently involve tissue alterations - removal of tumors, rearragement of bone segments, restoration of organs. This type of healer conceives of the immediate source of the healings or cures as being a Source of unlimited capability. Some atttibute the healing power to s poweful spirit ally for whom they have been given a name.

 

I live in Canada, and I remember that five or ten years ago, there was a national radio program segment about a healer visiting many North American churches, and this fellow could restore teeth - miraculous dental work was his thing, and he attributed it to God.

 

I believe this "external source" may be a significant point. These healers may conceive of themselves as being quite ordinary and having no special talent at all.

[Guest winpro07]

Edited October 18, 2009 by winpro07