Wu Wei

[Wayfarer64]

To add to the excellent posts above, Wu Wei 無爲 (Effortless Action) is to do nothing outside of one's true nature ... one's De/Teh 德 (virtue). When one's consciousness is 'lined up' with the Tao in any given moment all of one's actions will be natural and spontaneous; they will be empty of contrivance and artifice. With one's actions imbued with inner 'inspiration' one's actions will be Wu Wei.

 

I have explored the link between De/Teh 德 and inspiration over here: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?s=&amp...st&p=129003

 

This is interesting... the addition of insperation doesn't seem as apt tho- what about artists relizing great works with insperation? Is such art -NOT Wu Wei?

 

So I'm sensing a need for effortless insperation perhaps...in some cases...

[Stigweard]

This is interesting... the addition of insperation doesn't seem as apt tho- what about artists relizing great works with insperation? Is such art -NOT Wu Wei?

 

So I'm sensing a need for effortless insperation perhaps...in some cases...

Yup I hear you. Like I said over in The Tao of Inspiration thread, "my line of inquiry is about the possibility of identifying a signifier for the experience of being one with one's own true nature or virtue/de ... something practical to guide our awareness toward ever-increasing embodiment of one's true self-nature."

 

And in my current exploration the best descriptive I have for that feeling is 'inspiration'.

[Wayfarer64]

Ah - my misreading !- Yes being inspired is as close to communing with life through the god-head as I can reach in everyday life... listening to ones deepest inner source is true inspiration and is found moment by moment breath by breath...effortless serine tranquil sublime... all that good stuff...

[Stigweard]

Ah - my misreading !- Yes being inspired is as close to communing with life through the god-head as I can reach in everyday life... listening to ones deepest inner source is true inspiration and is found moment by moment breath by breath...effortless serine tranquil sublime... all that good stuff...

[Marblehead]

After reading the last three posts and considering what I just posted in the 'inspiration' thread I started arguing with myself but in the end I agreed with myself so my post in the 'inspiration' thread still stands.

 

Yes, I agree that we can say say that 'wu wei' and 'wei wu wei' is based on inspiration. To act or to not act. But, I think that most of us will agree that there have been times when we have acted but should not have, or, we have not acted when we should have.

 

I think that 'wu wei' and 'wei wu wei' are perfect only when we are totally aware. Sometimes there are events where we are not totally aware of all the variables that are directing a particular action so we act on what awareness we have and find that we were unaware of an important variable and therefore our action or non-action was the wrong thing to do.

 

Yes, I value the concept of 'wu wei' but I also understand that there are times when I don't know enough of the variables and there is always the possibility that I could be making an inappropriate action.

 

Happy Trails!

[freeform]

Yes, I value the concept of 'wu wei' but I also understand that there are times when I don't know enough of the variables and there is always the possibility that I could be making an inappropriate action.

 

wu wei has nothing to do with knowing. nothing to do with appropriateness or inappropriateness.

 

It is action that is inspired directly by infinite wisdom - not anything you could know, and not anything that could fit a duality.

[Marblehead]

wu wei has nothing to do with knowing. nothing to do with appropriateness or inappropriateness.

 

It is action that is inspired directly by infinite wisdom - not anything you could know, and not anything that could fit a duality.

 

Hi Freeform,

 

I get to disagree with you but I realize that our differences are probably more at word usage rather than concept disagreement.

 

Wu wei is non-doing.

 

Wei wu wei is doing without alterior motive.

 

So, in my mind, wu wei is doing nothing because there is nothing that needs be done.

 

Wei wu wei is doing what needs be done and that is all - nothing more, nothing less.

 

I suggest that wisdom has its base in knowledge. If we do not know how the universe works we will never attain wisdom therefore we would never be able to 'wu wei' or 'wei wu wei'.

 

So, yes, I will agree with you that 'doing nothing' does not require knowledge but I suggest that 'doing' should be done with knowledge and wisdom so that we don't screw up too often.

 

Happy Trails!

[rene]

wu wei has nothing to do with knowing. nothing to do with appropriateness or inappropriateness.

 

It is action that is inspired directly by infinite wisdom - not anything you could know, and not anything that could fit a duality.

well said

 

wu wei is the natural spontaneous action arising from wu,

wu being the emptiness that contains the fullness of infinite potential

[Marblehead]

well said

 

wu wei is the natural spontaneous action arising from wu,

wu being the emptiness that contains the fullness of infinite potential

 

Hehehe. No, I'm not going to disagree with you.

 

Happy Trails!

[freeform]

Hi Freeform,

 

I get to disagree with you

 

How boring would life be if you didn't!!

 

I suggest that wisdom has its base in knowledge. If we do not know how the universe works we will never attain wisdom therefore we would never be able to 'wu wei' or 'wei wu wei'.

 

The fundamental question is what is knowledge?

 

if it's what you personally know, well it's far, far, far more limited than what the universe has to offer.

 

When we say wu wei is spontaneous, we mean that it arises from the formless. Personal knowledge is defined by form... personal knowledge is based in duality... the formless is unknowable, just like the Tao, it's unnameable.

 

A name is stationary, it's defined by limitation... a name says "this but not that"... the word 'cat' limits all experience, throws most of it out, and limits it on a particular animal... it's "this but not that"... The formless by its nature is everything - it's "this and that and not this and not that and all of it and none of it" all at the same time.

 

Knowledge, no mater how expansive, complex or wise, by its nature is like a word - it's limited - it's "this but not that"...

 

so action that is inspired by knowledge can only be contrived because it comes from a personal, limited experience, not from the formless everything.

 

ouch - too much thought xD

[wudangspirit]

I may have to disagree a bit. I think the word "inspiration" conjures up feeling and emotion. Wu wei would non-attachment to any post heaven intelligence or desires.

 

To add to the excellent posts above, Wu Wei 無爲 (Effortless Action) is to do nothing outside of one's true nature ... one's De/Teh 德 (virtue). When one's consciousness is 'lined up' with the Tao in any given moment all of one's actions will be natural and spontaneous; they will be empty of contrivance and artifice. With one's actions imbued with inner 'inspiration' one's actions will be Wu Wei.

 

I have explored the link between De/Teh 德 and inspiration over here: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?s=&amp...st&p=129003

[Lucky7Strikes]

Non-attachment is the act of inspiration. .

[Marblehead]

How boring would life be if you didn't!!

The fundamental question is what is knowledge?

 

if it's what you personally know, well it's far, far, far more limited than what the universe has to offer.

 

When we say wu wei is spontaneous, we mean that it arises from the formless. Personal knowledge is defined by form... personal knowledge is based in duality... the formless is unknowable, just like the Tao, it's unnameable.

 

A name is stationary, it's defined by limitation... a name says "this but not that"... the word 'cat' limits all experience, throws most of it out, and limits it on a particular animal... it's "this but not that"... The formless by its nature is everything - it's "this and that and not this and not that and all of it and none of it" all at the same time.

 

Knowledge, no mater how expansive, complex or wise, by its nature is like a word - it's limited - it's "this but not that"...

 

so action that is inspired by knowledge can only be contrived because it comes from a personal, limited experience, not from the formless everything.

 

ouch - too much thought xD

 

I had to laugh. Hehehe. Damn if you ain't sounding a little like a Buddhist. Sorry but I couldn't help myself.

 

I don't disagree with what you have said. The words we use and our state of awareness is what is causing us to appear to be disagreeing. Don't get me wrong, you are aware. That's not what I meant. It is that I am not aware when I am in a state of total wu so I agree, there is no this or that because all is one. But generally, when I am awake I am somewhere between wu and yo, that is, the Mystery and the Manifest.

 

You are right by virtue of where you were standing when you typed your post. (Well, not really but that's beside the point.)

 

Okay. On knowing - I know nothing absolute. I do, on occasion, make some pretty good guesses. I am more often correct when I am more yo than wu. When I get too wu(ey) I don't give a shit because nothing matters. That is where I get my statement: Everything matters but nothing matters. That is, in total yo everything (manifest) matters but in total wu nothing matters because there are no things - only oneness.

 

I probably didn't clarify myself with this but that's the way words are. We can never describe something that doesn't exist (in yo). Words are inadequate.

 

Happy Trails!

 

 

 

 

I may have to disagree a bit. I think the word "inspiration" conjures up feeling and emotion. Wu wei would non-attachment to any post heaven intelligence or desires.

 

Good for you but I don't attach any emotions, divinity or desires to my inspirations. (Well, like I said in that thread, I did once and really screwed up big time.)

 

Happy Trails!

 

 

Non-attachment is the act of inspiration. .

 

 

Hehehe. Can I say that goes without saying?

 

Happy Trails!

[freeform]

I had to laugh. Hehehe. Damn if you ain't sounding a little like a Buddhist. Sorry but I couldn't help myself.

 

 

But generally, when I am awake I am somewhere between wu and yo, that is, the Mystery and the Manifest.

...

I am more often correct when I am more yo than wu. When I get too wu(ey) I don't give a shit because nothing matters.

 

cool - yes it clarifies it.

 

So let's play... the kind of game where you imagine stuff and then you imagine you're not imagining

 

Imagine that yo (the manifest) is constantly being born out of wu (unmanifest)

 

your awareness can move between these two - you have everything/nothing emptiness on one end (wu) and you have separate things on the other end (yo)... and your awareness can move along the scale...

 

Now I would imagine you've rarely been in a state of complete wu for a decent length of time (neither have I, and neither have most people)... When you move into wu fully it feels as if you're dying (and indeed a 'you' is dying) - it's like getting sucked in by a black hole - nothing remains... now when you totally surrender to it, you may find that this unnerving emptiness is not empty at all, but in fact the source of everything.

 

I would also imagine that it's unlikely that you've rarely been in a state of ultimate yo for any length of time. It's like being present to the smallest single point of concentration... When you move fully into this singularity, it unfurls like a flower into ultimate nothing - emptiness...

 

You've given birth to the yin within the yang and the yang within the yin... and these two can dance in such a spontaneous way that everything manifest and unmanifest is born anew... action and non-action dancing together, and arising spontaneously, because they are born from pre-personal source...

 

and of course - we're just playing with this... ever seen an otter play with a stone? they throw it in all manner of ways, spinning it, catching it in different ways, rubbing it on their bellies etc... that's what thoughts are for - nothing more 'important'.

 

Edited August 27, 2009 by freeform

[Marblehead]

Hi Freeform,

 

Okay, to the game.

 

I agree with everything you said about wu. No problem there at all.

 

However, (Yeah, there is almost always a 'however'.)

 

I do agree that yo is constantly born out of wu. But, constantly doesn't mean rapid succession for each individual element. Death by old age of an average American is close to ninty years. That's not very rapid.

 

Back to yo. My understanding is that the state of 100% yo is concern for only the material world. Very ego-centric. Possession and possessor. A total separation between me and all other things. There is me and there is everything else in the universe. Sure, there is 'my' mother and 'my' father, and 'my' brothers and sisters, 'my' car, 'my' house, etc., etc.

 

See all the 'my's there? Everything is compared against 'me'. If it is not 'me' then it is something else - if it is not 'mine' it is someone else's. Separation to the maximum degree.

 

... yo (is) ... like being present to the smallest single point of concentration... When you move fully into this singularity, it unfurls like a flower into ultimate nothing - emptiness...

 

This is where I strongly disagree. I have been in the state of 100% yo on numerous occasions and it is more at a sense of fullness, not emptiness. That is, "I" am very big and massive because my ego very strong. And "I" have all my possessions. What power! And my actions can change the world! Death is not even a consideration because "I" am going to live forever! Nothing matters except "ME".

 

At this point I am total yang. No harmony, no balance. (No inner peace either but we won't talk about that.) But then it is said that no state need be permanent. The lost souls can always find their way back to balance and harmony because no matter how lost we are we can never escape the bounds of Tao.

 

The moment we loose the 100% yo state we begin the dance of the universe. We begin to gain harmony and balance in our life. We find a place to rest (yin - the valley spirit). Once we find that harmonious place in our life we become like the otter; able to satisfy its needs and have lots of time left over for play and dancing.

 

And this is where we find ... action and non-action dancing together, and arising spontaneously .... Not only am I dancing but I am the dance itself.

 

Happy Trails!

[Stigweard]

I may have to disagree a bit. I think the word "inspiration" conjures up feeling and emotion. Wu wei would non-attachment to any post heaven intelligence or desires.

Yup I hear you I initially felt the same way, until I looked closer at the meaning of 'inspiration':

 

Inspiration has at it's roots "in" + spirare (same root as 'spirit') "to breathe". And here we see the Taoist implications because Qi 氣 is also designated to mean breath / spirit.

 

So I believe that inspiration is pointing to a more refined and subtle energy than just coarse emotions and the only word left to possibly describe it is a 'feeling'.

 

For example when I play with Wuji Taiji my movements are not created by attachments or desires. My mind is empty, Wu, and my intent is unified with my breath ... the movements, or Wei, merely 'happen'. What causes me to move in certain way? I could only say that it 'felt right' to do so, and it is that pure feeling that I am calling 'inspiration' and thus is my connection with Wu Wei.

 

[Aetherous]

That was a cool post, Stig.

[Marblehead]

That was a cool post, Stig.

 

 

Hehehe. I wasn't going to say anything but I thought so too.

 

Happy Trails!

[Wayfarer64]

[Marblehead]

Hi Pat,

 

Yep to everything you just said.

 

Happy Trails!

[wudangspirit]

The key is here that by naming "inspiration" means that it is not eternal. Naming conjures up emotion and attachment and that was my point. Defining will lead to more post heaven intelligence.

 

I think what we're trying to say here is original nature leads to what we define as inspiration. Inspiration itself is just manifestation. So we must name it. Just like Tao.

 

Yup I hear you I initially felt the same way, until I looked closer at the meaning of 'inspiration':

 

Inspiration has at it's roots "in" + spirare (same root as 'spirit') "to breathe". And here we see the Taoist implications because Qi 氣 is also designated to mean breath / spirit.

 

So I believe that inspiration is pointing to a more refined and subtle energy than just coarse emotions and the only word left to possibly describe it is a 'feeling'.

 

For example when I play with Wuji Taiji my movements are not created by attachments or desires. My mind is empty, Wu, and my intent is unified with my breath ... the movements, or Wei, merely 'happen'. What causes me to move in certain way? I could only say that it 'felt right' to do so, and it is that pure feeling that I am calling 'inspiration' and thus is my connection with Wu Wei.

 

[rene]

Inspired = action with usual parameters out of the way

 

Wu wei = action with all parameters out of the way

 

Similar, but not the same, imo.

 

***

 

p.s to freeform

 

... it's "this and that and not this and not that and all of it and none of it" all at the same time.

Yep.

[wudangspirit]

I like that. That is good

 

Inspired = action with usual parameters out of the way

 

Wu wei = action with all parameters out of the way

 

Similar, but not the same, imo.

 

***

 

p.s to freeform

Yep.

[Stigweard]

I think what we're trying to say here is original nature leads to what we define as inspiration. Inspiration itself is just manifestation.

Yes I believe we are in the same groove here.

 

Inspired = action with usual parameters out of the way

 

Wu wei = action with all parameters out of the way

 

Could you expand on what you are saying please? I am interested in what you are saying but I want to make sure I am understanding you correctly.

 

[rene]

Inspired = action with usual parameters out of the way. Mind-set seems to expand, making room for new possibilities, options; manifest feelings and sensations of flowing Qi and being 'in harmony with Tao'.

 

Wu wei = action with all parameters out of the way. Mind is naturally unboundaried; no sense of 'in harmony' or 'out of harmony' - only of simultaneous motion and stillness.