The Past...(?)

[Lucky7Strikes]

What is the most effective way of dealing with past scars and attachments?

 

Re-interpretation? Forgive and forget?

 

What exactly is the past? How does is leave its imprints? Why do we hold on to them?

[Marblehead]

What is the most effective way of dealing with past scars and attachments?

 

Re-interpretation? Forgive and forget?

 

What exactly is the past? How does is leave its imprints? Why do we hold on to them?

 

Hi Lucky7,

 

Excellent topic, I think.

 

Here is my take on this working kinda' backwards through your questions.

 

The past is any moment that happended before this present moment. The events that cause us suffering are what we are talking about here.

 

Basically, if the past event doesn't contain a lesson then we ought to forget that event. However, the event caused an imprint in our brain as a memory. Whenever that memory becomes conscious and we think on the event we are causing even more imprints therefore stronger memories.

 

I think is is not that we actually want to hold to them, it is just that if we give them attention they grow stronger. Kinda' like our ego.

 

Many people say that forgiving and forgetting is a good way to get rid of these past memories. I think also just by recognizing them when they come to the consciousness, saying "Hi", then concentrating on something else is a good way too because if we don't concentrate on them they will grow weaker and eventually die due to lack of attention.

 

For me it was a process of acquiring so many hobbies that I always had something to do; always consciously considering this or that. I kept my brain so busy with new stuff that there wasn't time for those old memories to come to the fore and they have mostly died. Oh, sure, a memory does pop up on occasion but I try to not linger on it and thereby feed it.

 

Happy Trails!

[Lucky7Strikes]

Hi Lucky7,

 

Excellent topic, I think.

 

Here is my take on this working kinda' backwards through your questions...

 

I agree that trying to resolve memories can produce a counter effect where it becomes illusional.

 

Yet to ignore them is to not acknowledge how they have left the strongest imprints on who you are today.

 

Hmm, having many hobbies seem like a good solution, but what if the sufferings from the past continue to bind you? Wouldn't you be burying them deeper and deeper into the subconscious?

Edited August 25, 2009 by Lucky7Strikes

[King Kabalabhati]

BTW Michael Winn states in his homepage that past, present and future are happening simultaneously. I don't know if I can think about that without straining my brain.

[Lucky7Strikes]

BTW Michael Winn states in his homepage that past, present and future are happening simultaneously. I don't know if I can think about that without straining my brain.

 

In that case, I guess it would only be the present...

 

But how does that help in healing from the past...

 

[chicultivation]

What does Buddhism say?

[Vajrahridaya]

It really just has to do with I and Mine or Me. It's really just about identifying with, or just realizing the empty nature. I deal with this stuff all the time, having had a very traumatic childhood and history all together, including homelessness in 3 different states in the US, being forced to go on food stamps and government aid, not to mention childhood. Whatever. The only thing that holds me into this, is some sort of false pride in having experienced that and suffered that. It's like a pride of suffering. So foolish, but it's what we do to protect our false identities that we use in order to survive and also in order to have some sort of identity period because it's cool, or it makes for a good story. Without it, we feel vulnerable, and you know how much the ego hates that.

 

My point is, is that we don't need these identities, we just need to let go and let be, flow with the now, having learned from the past without attachment to. It takes meditation and contemplation, logic and reason. These are all good remedies. Especially blissful chanting I think, because that heals the pain like a gentle salve of forgiveness and it spreads throughout all ones memories. In bliss and joy it's easier to apply the knowledge and wisdom of emptiness and dependent origination, which basically free's one from identification with, or an identifier even.

Edited August 26, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[Sloppy Zhang]

This advice was given to me by Freeform on another thread:

 

Might sound weird, but congratulations!

 

My advice - and I used this metaphor before - and I have found it quite helpful:

 

Imagine getting to your home one day - opening the front door, walking in and discovering on your doorstep a beautifully wrapped present right there on the floor. It's got a bright shiny bow, colourful, sparkly wrapping paper and a little note saying "For Sloppy Zhang".

 

By the way - pay attention to the feeling of your feet on the floor and your butt on the chair as you read on.

 

Now imagine you've been on a vacation... for years... decades even... and as you come up to the front door of your home, you insert the key, turn it and try to push the door open, but you can feel an obstruction! you manage to push it just enough to be able to peer in... So you do, and you notice that the house is so full of nicely wrapped gifts that it's almost impossible to get in!

 

This is the situation most people are in...

 

What you have managed to do is take out and unwrap enough of these gifts that you are able to get in through the door and are now unwrapping more and more as you get deeper and deeper into your home.

 

All the gifts are books. They're filled with elaborate stories. All about you and your life. Some of them are great! You love reading them over and over and over again, coz the stories make you feel good - secure, comfortable, content.

 

Many people get stuck reading the same 5 or 6 books over and over, stuck in the hallway, unable to get deeper into their home. But that doesn't concern them, coz the stories in the books keep them occupied, so it's fine...

 

You on the other hand, you want to get home - I mean really get in there, not just the front porch or the hallway, but all the way in - deep inside your home, where there is a fireplace, with a gentle fire burning keeping your home warm for you. And you don't want to be there temporarily, you don't want to wade through a bunch of nicely wrapped presents and unwrapped books to be able to get to the fire in the centre. You want to have a clear, effortless way in there and out of there, unobstructed and easy to navigate.

 

So you've started going through all the presents, unwrapping them, reading some of the books, throwing some out, filing some for later, placing the ones you really like on the mantelpiece... and now you've come across a book that frightens you!

 

You've unwrapped it, peeked inside the book and it really scares you - you've not come across books like this before, so you have no idea what to do with it! It's a book about you, but the story makes you feel uncomfortable...

 

So this is what I suggest.

 

Take the book and feel it in your hands. Feel the weight of it. Feel the texture of the cover. Hit yourself with it. Throw it on the floor and listen to the sound it makes. Prop a wobbly table leg with the book. Stand on it. Hit it. Throw it against the wall. Feel all the ways that your body can make use of this book. Feel how your body responds to it. The story inside is inconsequential - it's only a story - the physicality of the book is far more important!

 

Once you've allowed your body to experience the physicality of it fully, in every way possible, take this book... make your way to the fireplace in the centre of your home and throw it in... let the book be the fuel that warms your home!

 

Now go back, collect all the other books that you've unwrapped and do the same thing - let your body respond to the physicality of it. Then, no matter how much you like or dislike the story, take the book and throw it into the fire. Let the heat created spread throughout your home.

 

Every present needs to be unwrapped, every book needs to be felt by your body and if you want to live comfortably in your home, and maybe even think of enlightenment some day, you need to let go of each and every book, no matter how scary, how comforting, how blissful, how tragic - it all needs to be let go of. And you're in the process of doing that now. You're free to read the books if you want, but don't get stuck in the story... it's of no consequence... the best thing about the story is its entertainment value.

 

So feel your butt on the chair again.

 

You come up to your front door, open it and find another beautifully wrapped gift there in front of you. What will you do?

 

In the time since I received that very excellent advice, I've found that it applies equally to things that have happened in your past, scars and/or attachments. I've realized there are a lot of things that I hold onto that I don't really need, but they are just so strong and make such an impression on your mind. Even if you have learned all you possibly can from that mistake, many times you still hold on to it.

 

Furthermore, I'd suggest getting B.K. Frantzis' book "Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body." He also has a youtube channel where he discusses dissolving in other contexts (such as dissolving images). It's a very good method, promotes relaxation, but also helps you deal with stuff

 

I've learned a lot of things from a lot of people, so it'd take a long time for me to describe how I got to where I am now.... maybe one day I'll have a way of more succinctly explaining it, but I don't right now. I'll just point you to two things that have been some of the most helpful for me recently, and let you incorporate whatever you need into your own practice

[Marblehead]

Yet to ignore them is to not acknowledge how they have left the strongest imprints on who you are today.

 

Yes, trying to ignore the memories may be self defeating. A possibility would be to try to associate a lesson we have learned from the experience. That way we would be turning a negative into a positive.

 

... but what if the sufferings from the past continue to bind you? Wouldn't you be burying them deeper and deeper into the subconscious?

 

This is a harder one for me to speak to. This is because I think that suffering is psychologial. We suffer because we feel sorry for ourself. Why we feel sorry for ourself comes from many sources. Physical pain, the loss of some thing or some person, having been abused by someone we had put trust in, etc.

 

I don't remember the entire lesson but the Buddha was once speaking with someone who had just lost a loved one and was suffering as a result. The Buddha said something like, we all have lost something or someone that was dear to us. We suffer because we had formed an attachment with that thing or person. When we loose it it seems that we have lost a part of ourself.

 

I don't remember the exact lesson but it was something like, so don't attach yourself to things and others, accept them into your life, share the goodness of the presence and know that one day you or it will one day be taking different paths.

 

So yes, if we linger on our suffering is will grow and consume us. Again, I think that a transferral from the event to a lesson we have learned (or should find) will, over time, turn the negative into a positive.

 

Happy Trails!

[everseeking]

Being pressed for time and having only read your first post, I have this to offer you.

 

You are your memories. Your behavior will be shaped by past experiences.

 

It takes most people 13 times for something to become a habit.

 

Put those two statements together, and you can see that to best shape yourself, you have to habitually have positive, healthy experiences. It only takes 13 times on average man!! then you are on the way to a whole new you! But you didn't get the way you are now overnight, and so it will be with change. Positive, rewarding experience means positive, rewarding memories. Memories shape behavior. Behavior is largely who you are.

 

Surround yourself with the positive, eliminate or minimize the negative.

 

For some GREAT reading, for real introspection, and some answers, read books by Erik Burne (spelling?) He write about transaction analysis. Remember that phrase, and look for ebooks on torrent sites.

 

Good luck.

[xabir2005]

What is the most effective way of dealing with past scars and attachments?

 

Re-interpretation? Forgive and forget?

 

What exactly is the past? How does is leave its imprints? Why do we hold on to them?

The past are simply our imprints.... it is the nature of our consciousness to form imprints. It's just so... like a tape recorder.

 

On how to let go of them... I hope this article is helpful: http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/sea.../John%20Welwood

[Lucky7Strikes]

...Burn eveything in the fire of positivity....(the blissful fire of Tumo? )

 

Sounds good!

 

I agree with everseeking that one doesn't need to identifty with his/her past simply because it is what you are now. Consciously revisiting them can have its benefits, but will likely lead to more identification, suffering, and needless struggle.

 

So there needs to be faith in the "positivity" and the fire that you have decided to carry in order to heal yourself.

But,

 

Got to be careful what you burn yourself in! .

[freeform]

...Burn eveything in the fire of positivity....(the blissful fire of Tumo? )

 

Sounds good!

 

I agree with everseeking that one doesn't need to identifty with his/her past simply because it is what you are now. Consciously revisiting them can have its benefits, but will likely lead to more identification, suffering, and needless struggle.

 

So there needs to be faith in the "positivity" and the fire that you have decided to carry in order to heal yourself.

But,

 

Got to be careful what you burn yourself in! .

 

haha - nononononono - the fire is not 'positive'. The fire is transformative. 'Positive' and 'negative' are just stories - the content of the books, they're not real... And the most important thing is not the fire, but the physical book itself - feel the physicality of it.

 

So in actual practical terms - feel in your body the feelings that a memory arouses. Be patient. A memory, just like a book, has content (the story) and context (the physical object)... We find it difficult to let go of things because we become too attached to the content, the story. Feeling it in your body (feeling the physicality of the book) allows you to disengage from the story and perceive a far more 'real' aspect of the memory... a part of the memory that you've seldom allowed yourself to feel before.

 

Once you've allowed your body to feel it fully - with full awareness, with no direct intent than just to be aware of it - then you will find it much easier to let go of.

 

This is to be done with both 'negative' and 'positive' experiences.

[Lucky7Strikes]

haha - nononononono - the fire is not 'positive'. The fire is transformative. 'Positive' and 'negative' are just stories - the content of the books, they're not real... And the most important thing is not the fire, but the physical book itself - feel the physicality of it.

 

So in actual practical terms - feel in your body the feelings that a memory arouses. Be patient. A memory, just like a book, has content (the story) and context (the physical object)... We find it difficult to let go of things because we become too attached to the content, the story. Feeling it in your body (feeling the physicality of the book) allows you to disengage from the story and perceive a far more 'real' aspect of the memory... a part of the memory that you've seldom allowed yourself to feel before.

 

Once you've allowed your body to feel it fully - with full awareness, with no direct intent than just to be aware of it - then you will find it much easier to let go of.

 

This is to be done with both 'negative' and 'positive' experiences.

 

Ah I see. Thanks for the clarification!

 

But what exactly leads us to feel the book's physicality in the first place? As in, with what hands should one feel the book?

 

[Wayfarer64]

It may sound a bit Pollyannaish -but everything that occures can be used in a possitive manner if yr heart is ready to accept the bad with the good ...

 

Then, eventually there is not so much good and bad as just is... weighing the subjective weight of the past against the knowable present and the surmisable future - will always leave you in the present anyway...

 

Rejecting anything that has troubled you in the past just leaves you to deal with it again in some other context.

 

Accept what has been, what is, and what may be as variables for yr mind to play within...

 

It still all happens within the context of the everchanging NOW -which is actually all we have ever had...

[Vajrahridaya]

Ah I see. Thanks for the clarification!

 

But what exactly leads us to feel the book's physicality in the first place? As in, with what hands should one feel the book?

 

 

dependent origination/emptiness of course.

 

 

 

It still all happens within the context of the everchanging NOW -which is actually all we have ever had...

 

Now is not graspable either...

 

as in it also does not inherently exist.

 

It is also dependent and not an independent entity. Even the senses fool us, we actually sensually experience the now in a delayed fashion... scientifically speaking.

Edited August 27, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[Marblehead]

It may sound a bit Pollyannaish -but everything that occures can be used in a possitive manner if yr heart is ready to accept the bad with the good ...

 

Nice. Enjoy the pleasure of the good things that happen in our life; learn the lesson from the not-good things that happen in our life.

 

Happy Trails!

 

Even the senses fool us, we actually sensually experience the now in a delayed fashion... scientifically speaking.

 

Yeah. I had a discussion with a Buddhist a few years back and I had to concede. By the time our brain analysizes what happened it is already a past event. Experiencing the 'now' is really just recognizing a recent past event.

 

(But I'm still going to continue living in the 'now' as much as I can. Hehehe.)

 

Happy Trails!

[Wayfarer64]

dependent origination/emptiness of course.

Now is not graspable either...

 

as in it also does not inherently exist.

 

It is also dependent and not an independent entity. Even the senses fool us, we actually sensually experience the now in a delayed fashion... scientifically speaking.

 

Its about ridding ones' self of the filters - the dogma the cultural baggage...The "false" me of absorbed foolishness that some take as "the way things are"...

 

The body knows before the intellect... being of the moment means without preconception or expectation due to mind-set...

[Vajrahridaya]

 

The body knows before the intellect... being of the moment means without preconception or expectation due to mind-set...

 

But much of the bodies automatic response system has to do with the subconscious conditioning via genetics and environment which has to be understood directly through meditation and contemplation based upon the teachings of enlightened lineage. As in, unraveling through a process of de-conditioning conditions/teachings. As the process of conditioning happens in a certain way, ie... originates dependently add infinitum, it needs to de-condition through understanding how the process works and meditating on the meaning. Deconstructionalism is a good pre-cursor to meditation and still is used even during meditative experiencing, ie... Vipassana. Not just witnessing as this sets up an ultimate Subject and ends up getting a bit solipsistic which is sophistical or plausible but inaccurate and misleading, setting up an ultimate substance.

Edited August 27, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[Wayfarer64]

But much of the bodies automatic response system has to do with the subconscious conditioning via genetics and environment which has to be understood directly through meditation and contemplation based upon the teachings of enlightened lineage. As in, unraveling through a process of de-conditioning conditions/teachings. As the process of conditioning happens in a certain way, ie... originates dependently add infinitum, it needs to de-condition through understanding how the process works and meditating on the meaning. Deconstructionalism is a good pre-cursor to meditation and still is used even during meditative experiencing, ie... Vipassana. Not just witnessing as this sets up an ultimate Subject and ends up getting a bit solipsistic which is sophistical or plausible but inaccurate and misleading, setting up an ultimate substance.

 

 

This BS is exactly the baggage - I am addressing...get off yr tread-mill and open yr mind to what actually takes place within yrself - not some verbiage expressing IDEAS...

jeez you piss me off.

[Vajrahridaya]

This BS is exactly the baggage - I am addressing...get off yr tread-mill and open yr mind to what actually takes place within yrself - not some verbiage expressing IDEAS...

 

jeez you piss me off.

 

You should take your own advice then...

 

You've always come across as effected and bitter to me. That's probably not the entire you either. As you have no idea what kind of person I am and are going on a very strong subjective perception based on nothing but the fact that I questioned your system of belief, obviously shaking your bones, otherwise there'd be no angry reactions from you. But that's all you've spat, is venom and anger. All you've been is defensive, then offensive. I can tell by some of your posts though that you do actually have some sensitivity. Not towards me, but in general. All I've spoken is from experience and scriptures and have not made overt personal attacks. I've just made statements about the limits of various traditions of which I have experience of and plenty of study of. Mostly it was just Hinduism I was speaking about. I spoke a little bit about Taoism but there seems to be many different views regarding the Tao and no clear cut way of seeing what is meant by the Tao, it's all a bit ambiguous.

 

You'll of course question my experience because your so hard headed against me on a personal level, for no obvious reason as I've never attacked you personally and never really spoke to you until you started spitting at me. Of course, you'll concoct a reason for your attacks to support your state of angst, and it might even seem eloquent, but it will be nothing but your subjective projection of yourself. It's obvious because there are plenty of others here who actually like the things I've said. Not the hard core Taoists though, mostly just the open minded.

 

 

You haven't even really objectively read a word I've said.

 

bye!

Edited August 28, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

You should take your own advice then...

 

You've always come across as effected and bitter to me. That's probably not the entire you either. As you have no idea what kind of person I am and are going on a very strong subjective perception based on nothing but the fact that I questioned your system of belief, obviously shaking your bones, otherwise there'd be no angry reactions from you. But that's all you've spat, is venom and anger. All you've been is defensive, then offensive. I can tell by some of your posts though that you do actually have some sensitivity. Not towards me, but in general. All I've spoken is from experience and scriptures and have not made overt personal attacks. I've just made statements about the limits of various traditions of which I have experience of and plenty of study of. Mostly it was just Hinduism I was speaking about. I spoke a little bit about Taoism but there seems to be many different views regarding the Tao and no clear cut way of seeing what is meant by the Tao, it's all a bit ambiguous.

 

You'll of course question my experience because your so hard headed against me on a personal level, for no obvious reason as I've never attacked you personally and never really spoke to you until you started spitting at me. Of course, you'll concoct a reason for your attacks to support your state of angst, and it might even seem eloquent, but it will be nothing but your subjective projection of yourself. It's obvious because there are plenty of others here who actually like the things I've said. Not the hard core Taoists though, mostly just the open minded.

 

 

You haven't even really objectively read a word I've said.

 

bye!

 

 

Wayfarer, I share your sentiments. Vaj is totally oblivious, too wrapped up in his own ego to reflect on self and his obnoxious attitudes. Nothing gets through to him. He's already written me off as "sad" for challenging him. He fancies himself a writer and philosopher, yet cannot write clearly, simply or cogently. He preaches his brand of Buddhism with the zeal of the newly converted, blind because he has found The Way.

 

He reached 1,000 posts in the last 3 months usually around the clock, many of them meandering and obscure, and frequently arrogant and obnoxious... I have yet to hear him talk about socially engaged Buddhism, he appears to be on the Fast Track to Enlightenment now, so we should listen to his often nonsensical meanderings, right? What is his daily meditation practice? Thank God his girlfriend arrived and forbade him his forum addiction, we've had a little break lately...

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

[Vajrahridaya]

Wayfarer, I share your sentiments. Vaj is totally oblivious, too wrapped up in his own ego to reflect on self and his obnoxious attitudes. Nothing gets through to him. He's already written me off as "sad" for challenging him. He fancies himself a writer and philosopher, yet cannot write clearly, simply or cogently. He preaches his brand of Buddhism with the zeal of the newly converted, blind because he has found The Way.

 

He reached 1,000 posts in the last 3 months usually around the clock, many of them meandering and obscure, and frequently arrogant and obnoxious... I have yet to hear him talk about socially engaged Buddhism, he appears to be on the Fast Track to Enlightenment now, so we should listen to his often nonsensical meanderings, right? What is his daily meditation practice? Thank God his girlfriend arrived and forbade him his forum addiction, we've had a little break lately...

.

 

 

But as ignorant as I am. I have given you guys meaning to post! You guy's hardly posted a thing before I came on to post.

 

Oh... plus you asked what my meditation practice was and I told you, then asked you what your's was, to no reply.... for a long time in fact.

 

p.s. The worst dogmas are mental dogmas, the subtle blinders that keep one from actually being objective.

Edited August 28, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

 

But as ignorant as I am. I have given you guys meaning to post! You guy's hardly posted a thing before I came on to post.

 

Oh... plus you asked what my meditation practice was and I told you, then asked you what your's was, to no reply.... for a long time in fact.

 

 

 

 

ego, my man...again, your ego...

 

 

ya, sure, when do you meditate? You don't even sleep!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

Edited August 28, 2009 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[Vajrahridaya]

ego, my man...again, your ego...

.

 

Oh and the only posts that you've posted are tirades against me and Michaelz as people. That shows great talent, and humility on your part.

 

Congratulations!!

 

p.s. Yes, that's sarcasm.