SPRING FOREST HEALING?

[Aetherous]

I'm not a good seer quite yet.

[宁]

If you can stop the world and observe then you can know.

 

The ones that 'invented' stopping the world had simmilar practice.

Besides, my p.o.v rests on my experience with it: the earth pulls 'it' out of you whenever she gets the chanse, and i felt that way before i was even exposed to any occult or qigong theory or practice. In our part of the world, it's even basic knowledge in the countryside, where some folk lore still lives on.

 

It's interesting that you feel otherwise, but not impossible. There are different levels of 'seeing', they say. If two 'seers' see a thing differently, they may be on different levels of 'seeing'. Maybe only a fully enlightened being could tell which of them is closer to the truth...

[Mal]

I would support L1 in a sense that different systems have different and often opposite methabolism. What is poison for one is food for another. We can observe that throughout the Nature with many examples.

 

If a human being can transmute 'sick qi' as you say, can't the Earth do the same thing? The most fertile soils on Earth are the ones that have transmuted all the rotten (sick and dead?) living organisms.

I would agree with that

the earth pulls 'it' out of you whenever she gets the chance

My feeling too, accepting, welcoming, cleansing. (as close as I can get to "seeing" sorry)

 

If two 'seers' see a thing differently, they may be on different levels of 'seeing'. Maybe only a fully enlightened being could tell which of them is closer to the truth...

or is there really any truth or only points of view.

Obi Wan: what I told you was true... from a certain point of view.

Luke: (incredulous) A certain point of view?

Obi Wan: Luke, you will find many of the truths we cling to depend upon our own point of view.

 

Anyhow if people want less focus on Sick Qi then can learn Tonglin or Spring Forrest for healing if they want more go to a traditional taoism system like Ya Mu's. It's all stepping the the right direction of love and compassion for others suffering.

Edited August 31, 2009 by Mal

[Ya Mu]

...

If a human being can transmute 'sick qi' as you say, can't the Earth do the same thing? The most fertile soils on Earth are the ones that have transmuted all the rotten (sick and dead?) living organisms.

Of course the Earth has this ability, but what you are missing is that humankind's vast and continued effort to CONSTANTLY dump negative energy into the Earth has caused the Earth to be to the point of a massive "shaking out of the sick qi". The Earth will survive. The Earth, just like us, needs time to recover if it absorbs negative energy. Humankind does have a choice. I haven't seen a lot of evidence that this choice is being made from a Divine connection but from a physical selfish "this lifetime is everything so why bother" point of view.

 

The ones that 'invented' stopping the world had simmilar practice.

Besides, my p.o.v rests on my experience with it: the earth pulls 'it' out of you whenever she gets the chanse, and i felt that way before i was even exposed to any occult or qigong theory or practice. In our part of the world, it's even basic knowledge in the countryside, where some folk lore still lives on.

 

It's interesting that you feel otherwise, but not impossible. There are different levels of 'seeing', they say. If two 'seers' see a thing differently, they may be on different levels of 'seeing'. Maybe only a fully enlightened being could tell which of them is closer to the truth...

 

I guess it could boil down to do you feel everything is energy. I do. From this perspective then there is no difference in putting dioxin, mercury, nuclear waste, etc into the Earth than in putting sick qi/negative energy into the Earth. If anyone that feels the Earth can keep taking care of that, and that it is OK, then they do not believe that everything can be broken down to its energetic components. There is no difference in dumping toxic waste into the Earth and dumping negative energy into the Earth. We see no evidence that the Earth likes toxic waste.

My experience is from observing energy for a very long time - not from what somebody said. I believe in letting folks experience the energetics so they can come to their own conclusions versus "what I said", and I teach from this perspective. This is why I suggested you guys go outside, get in your meditative state, stop the world, SEE the Earth's energy body, and ASK does the negative energy effect it, then observing what happens. I have not heard back here from anyone that has actually tried this.

True SEEING (i,e, totality of perception) is experienced only after we have burned through the mental filters by raising our energy body vibration rate enough to do so combined with practice and alignment with the Divine.

The ones that 'invented' stopping the world had simmilar practice.

I do not know where you get this. Cutting the internal dialogue, shifting vibrational states into the quantum where time does not exist and Listening, i.e. stopping the world, was not "invented" but is an aspect of our higher level self that we have always had, and has nothing to do with any particular practice other than any practice can utilize it within the system.

 

...

Anyhow if people want less focus on Sick Qi then can learn Tonglin or Spring Forrest for healing if they want more go traditional taoism or Ya Mu's system. It's all stepping the the right direction of love and compassion for others suffering.

 

Totally agree that love and compassion and desire to eliminate suffering, or at least make a difference, is a good thing and a step in the right direction. You have a good heart.

But do not agree that the system itself makes any difference whatsoever as to whether sick qi exists. And, FYI, just to make it clear, the system I teach and practice IS Taoism. Not Taoism as printed out in books subject to translation but Taoism at its essential core, handed down through energy transmission.

[Mal]

My apologies. I don't really know your system and I didn't know if you wanted to be part of an "ism" I've edited my post.

 

This is why I suggested you guys go outside, get in your meditative state, stop the world, SEE the Earth's energy body, and ASK does the negative energy effect it, then observing what happens. I have not heard back here from anyone that has actually tried this.

I tried felt

accepting, welcoming, cleansing.

best I could do. It also felt "green" when I would have expected "red" but who knows I only get subtle feelings.

[Ya Mu]

My apologies. I don't really know your system and I didn't know if you wanted to be part of an "ism" I've edited my post.

You didn't need to go through that much trouble and no apologies needed. FWIW, I do believe that truth is truth and that is doesn't matter at all what system or ism it comes from. In that aspect I am not a "traditional" Taoist. And then we could all debate again "What is Taoism". It is just that what I was taught was called Taoism, and does come a lineage. I just wanted to be clear that it is a system handed down from Taoist practice. But to get totally caught up in the ism aspect does, IMO, bog us down. I do believe that there is really no way to separate most of these teachings into a true ism, as much credit comes from shamanic practices, Buddhist thought, and Taoist practitioners. Also, I think that everything should be personally experienced and never based on "what the teacher said". But if the teacher can help one to personally understand things as our own then they have handed down truth. This "truth is truth" and doesn't matter where it comes from was demonstrated to me once with a native traditional medicine man who showed me an exercise that the old healers did after doing an energy healing in order to help clear away any negative energies absorbed by the body. It was identical to a Chinese qigong exercise.

 

I tried felt

best I could do. It also felt "green" when I would have expected "red" but who knows I only get subtle feelings.

OK. Try to observe the edge of the energy field after the sun sets but before dark. Interesting that you felt "green". Subtle feelings are good.

Edited August 31, 2009 by Ya Mu

[cheya]

Traveling in Peru, our guide introduced us to Pachamama, roughly translated Mother Earth.
We were told that our negative emotions are her food. She NEEDS us to give them to her, and her receiving what is negative to us is the basis for the cycle of life to continue. They are negative to us so we will part with them easily! They are beneficial to her, and she recieves them gladly. So we must never withhold them from her, any more than we should interupt the flow of (what we would call) the excrement of life, into the cosmic recycling system that maintains and nourishes our world, and out of which future generations of every species arise.

(Of course dioxins, nuclear residue, and the other poisonous toxins we have created are outside this cycle, and by putting them on the earth, we destroy the cycle, the very foundation of life.)

So in energy work, I'm just stirring the flow and recycling the energy.
Works for me.

But then I don't do it 40 hours a week, either.

 

[Jedi777]

I find that Pranic healing is the best for me and it address all these issues and more!

I have been working with energy for most of my life and this is the best I have found and have been doing for 15 yrs.

http://www.pranichealing.com/

[sheng zhen]

My experience is from observing energy for a very long time - not from what somebody said. I believe in letting folks experience the energetics so they can come to their own conclusions versus "what I said", and I teach from this perspective.

This should be #1 in all healing schools!

 

Too often it gets lost in dogma and beliefsystems of what "some teacher said". "What-some-teacher-said" will be confirmed by "what some other teacher said that has learned it from that teacher that said something long time ago". And this again is confirmed by someone hearing about "some other teacher that said something similar some other time" and we get a whole big circle of self-confirmations where noone really has their own experiences. This is what healing mostly is in our culture today.

Edited August 31, 2009 by sheng zhen

[Ya Mu]

Traveling in Peru, our guide introduced us to Pachamama, roughly translated Mother Earth.

We were told that our negative emotions are her food. She NEEDS us to give them to her, and her receiving what is negative to us is the basis for the cycle of life to continue. They are negative to us so we will part with them easily! They are beneficial to her, and she recieves them gladly. So we must never withhold them from her, any more than we should interupt the flow of (what we would call) the excrement of life, into the cosmic recycling system that maintains and nourishes our world, and out of which future generations of every species arise.

 

(Of course dioxins, nuclear residue, and the other poisonous toxins we have created are outside this cycle, and by putting them on the earth, we destroy the cycle, the very foundation of life.)

 

So in energy work, I'm just stirring the flow and recycling the energy.

Works for me.

 

But then I don't do it 40 hours a week, either.

 

Adeha

 

If one believes that everything is energy, then there is absolutely no difference between toxins created one way versus toxins created another way - they are all toxins. OK, so let's put a poisonous toxin (by your & my definition) into a human body. What results? Sick qi, i.e. a toxin in the body. So an energy healer neutralizes it by projecting a higher vibration energy into the person and pulling out the sick qi. Then gives it to the earth because the Earth likes it. There is no difference between putting the toxin into the Earth one way or the other.

 

 

I find that Pranic healing is the best for me and it address all these issues and more!

I have been working with energy for most of my life and this is the best I have found and have been doing for 15 yrs.

http://www.pranichealing.com/

 

Cool. I have met Stephen CO and know his position on sick qi. Care to comment on this?

[voidisyinyang]

What you're discussing is an interesting issue -- Chunyi Lin stated that he learned the best way to think of energy illness is to RETURN IT TO THE EMPTINESS. The basic philosophy is "use your consciousness to go into the emptiness."

 

So illness is "extra energy" and to heal it in others the healer takes in the extra energy, then harmonizes it (i.e. through the full-lotus) -- so sadness is a lung blockage, anger the liver, -- the illness is harmonized in the healer as extra electrochemical energy and then turned into electromagnetic harmonized energy through the heart -- then transduced out of the pineal gland as light which then returns back to emptiness.

 

In buddhism it's called "empty awareness" in Vedic yoga it's "pure consciousness" or "awareness" and in Taoism it's just called "emptiness" -- but the concept itself is MISSING FROM THE WEST that's why it's very easy to get confused about energy blockages.

 

When we heal someone else the extra energy in our own body also gets worked out of the third eye and before this happens it appears as illness in our own body. So in this sense the energy is always being transformed -- with new electrochemical energy coming in as other peoples' energy blockages -- and then food that turns into energy blockages if it's not pure -- which is most modern food (saturated fat, salt, sugar, meat).

[Baguakid]

I also find this discussion interesting.

 

I have not heard before of sending evil qi to the light.

 

But most of my High level Taiji or Qigong players recognize they need to take away evil qi in their students/patients. I've learned a couple of standing exercises which do that but do it into the earth.

 

The purpose is removing Evil Qi and/or Han (Damp) Qi from the body. One guy in Shanghai, that's all he did and you could see the damp, evil qi coming out through his feet.

 

Here he is:

 

 

He uses downward pressure to eliminate bad and bring in good.

[Ya Mu]

...

So illness is "extra energy" and to heal it in others the healer takes in the extra energy, then harmonizes it (i.e. through the full-lotus) -- so sadness is a lung blockage, anger the liver, -- the illness is harmonized in the healer as extra electrochemical energy and then turned into electromagnetic harmonized energy through the heart -- then transduced out of the pineal gland as light which then returns back to emptiness.

 

This is good.

This is the same thing that I am calling "transmuting the sick energy into Light". The only thing is that I have watched other people who think they know how to do it not be able to and wind up very ill. A person can't do this until they can (not a conundrum).

 

One of our poems begins with:

There is a Lotus inside my body.

[topflight]

This is good.

This is the same thing that I am calling "transmuting the sick energy into Light". The only thing is that I have watched other people who think they know how to do it not be able to and wind up very ill. A person can't do this until they can (not a conundrum).

 

One of our poems begins with:

There is a Lotus inside my body.

 

So what we may have is a difference in terminology used to describe the same phenomenon. Over the years have you noticed other healers from other lineages who were able to transmute sick qi to light? How did they describe it in words?

 

I do 1-2 hours of stillness movement daily and maybe 1 healing a week. I do the protection before and cleaning afterward. I am aware of sick qi, but with the proper preparation and procedures, I am really not that worried about it.

Edited August 31, 2009 by topflight

[Baguakid]

Cool stuff... As soon as I can get situated I'm going to attend one of Ya Mu's classes.

 

I particularly like the spiritual side which he speaks. I had a Chinese Qigong teacher in California who taught a sitting qigong/meditation which involved a lotus flower, turning it 3 times and raising it to the three levels.

 

At the time I received little benefit from the exercise but could have been my body state at that time.

Edited August 31, 2009 by Baguakid

[Jedi777]

If one believes that everything is energy, then there is absolutely no difference between toxins created one way versus toxins created another way - they are all toxins. OK, so let's put a poisonous toxin (by your & my definition) into a human body. What results? Sick qi, i.e. a toxin in the body. So an energy healer neutralizes it by projecting a higher vibration energy into the person and pulling out the sick qi. Then gives it to the earth because the Earth likes it. There is no difference between putting the toxin into the Earth one way or the other.

Cool. I have met Stephen CO and know his position on sick qi. Care to comment on this?

Sure its not a position so to speak its a principle--dirty or stale energy is removed --or the wrong kind of energy may be in a part of the body--we simple remove it and dispose of it in a bowl of salt water a bio energy trash can if you will---if you are able to see energy to a higher degree you can see this "sick qi" the salt in the water has green chi or prana which breaks down sick qi or prana--its energetic hygiene to keep the area you work in clean.

http://books.google.com/books?id=s4q_50zmJ...39;&f=false

Edited August 31, 2009 by Jedi777

[Ya Mu]

Sure its not a position so to speak its a principle...

Exactly. But people here seem to think it is an opinion and not fact so I was in error in using the word "position" to mean "what he teaches".

 

 

 

 

So what we may have is a difference in terminology used to describe the same phenomenon. Over the years have you noticed other healers from other lineages who were able to transmute sick qi to light? How did they describe it in words?

 

I do 1-2 hours of stillness movement daily and maybe 1 healing a week. I do the protection before and cleaning afterward.

 

The descriptions are actually very similar. What is obvious is that one student got it and another totally misunderstood.

 

Of course I have seen other healers able do this- several of my students can - it is just most healers are ignorant of this method and it does require cultivation - Not "everything is roses".

Most healers use the method that I am SO against, the "don't take responsibility yourself and burden the Earth method." Some don't believe that sick qi exists and just take it on until they get sick.

 

I am aware of sick qi, but with the proper preparation and procedures, I am really not that worried about it.

Exactly!

Edited August 31, 2009 by Ya Mu

[mgd]

What do you SEE when you go outside, get into your meditative state, SEE the Earth's energy body, and ask if negative energy is good for the Earth?

 

Today I had the day off.

 

In the backa my yarda this morning practicing. Beautiful sunshiny day.

 

Protection check first - Stillness-Movement for a bit, then moved into Gift of the Tao.

 

Attracted woodpeckers and sparrows. They landed close to me and were visible on the oak tree. One (woodpecker, huge fella) landed on a small tree so close I could have reached out and touched it. We made eye contact.

 

Pleasant peaceful feeling....practiced for a bit then paid my respect to the oak tree. All the while woodpeckers and sparrows about..uninterested and not alarmed by me.

 

Moved away from the tree to my original spot and practiced some more until I felt the stillness. I focused on your question then and asked the Earth. Wasps immediately became visible around me. One started circling really close and then went kamikaze trying to get into my face, repeatedly pinging off of it, and my neck and shoulders.

 

Question brought a sick feeling in my stomach as well as an all over body shudder...my hands wove side to side and I heard "burn".

 

I didn't see anything. My eyes were wide looking at nothing in paticular...when outside I sometimes see "snow" - little particles floating about...especially when I look at the sky. But...I didn't see anything change when I asked...just felt it...like it was me responding to something with distaste.

Edited September 1, 2009 by mgd

[Birch]

Hum, this is my uneducated opinion. The earth is pissed at us these days.

 

For the rest, I'm very interested in the different perspectives.

 

I'm thinking it's maybe a bad idea to try to "project" anything onto anyone as long as I don't know what I'm doing. Besides, people will take up enough of you and in the way that suits them depending on where they're at and what you're willing to offer. I'm thinking best to offer best wishes for a speedy recovery and a compassionate ear in many cases. Perhaps healing heroism is not such a great goal - I emphasize heroism;-)

 

What I might think is "good" for someone could actually be "bad". Also the potential problem of having it straight back at you and not having the knowledge to deal with it- what the mechanism is, whether to describe it as "sick" or not or whether this is instant or not...

 

n00b talking but enjoying thread

[sheng zhen]

Hum, this is my uneducated opinion. The earth is pissed at us these days.

 

For the rest, I'm very interested in the different perspectives.

 

I'm thinking it's maybe a bad idea to try to "project" anything onto anyone as long as I don't know what I'm doing. Besides, people will take up enough of you and in the way that suits them depending on where they're at and what you're willing to offer. I'm thinking best to offer best wishes for a speedy recovery and a compassionate ear in many cases. Perhaps healing heroism is not such a great goal - I emphasize heroism;-)

 

What I might think is "good" for someone could actually be "bad". Also the potential problem of having it straight back at you and not having the knowledge to deal with it- what the mechanism is, whether to describe it as "sick" or not or whether this is instant or not...

 

n00b talking but enjoying thread

ah!!! Certainly these realizations are no noob realizations! You are way past noob with this. Even though you are an experienced healer or not. "Healing heroism is not such a great goal", hahaha, very well said!

[宁]

I got carried away trying to make a point i didn't have to make.

Based on experience and education i think that:

- sending sick Qi into the Earth will not solve the problem, because you need meditation experience to be able to work with the Earth's cauldron in order to transform that negative energy. Your Qi, whether good or bad, will still come back to you, because it's a part of you, and it wears your 'signature'.

So you can sink whatever amount or quality of Qi into the Earth, without transformation/alchemy practice, it won't make much difference, the sickness will return eventually.

- once you can do it with outside help (of the Earth) the next phase is when you can do it in your Inner Earth, inside yourself, without having to project it outside.

Sorry about the misunderstanding, it usually happens when we separate an idea from it's context, and forget about the large aplications and implications.

 

About stopping the world, I have a comment to make, as a former CC practicioner: it seems that the technique means more than just sitting silently and receptive. It's a spiritual event that can happen on occasions in a seeker's life, when all circumstances and timing and internal power is just about right. It usually comes after good years of correct hard working...

What it does is that it breaks down the barriers of perception in one instant. It's a consistent shift of the assemblage point, connected with some event known as 'the descent of the spirit'. It's really a long way, and hard work until you get there.

It's just my view, based on what i experienced, and learned, and witnessed.

 

L1

[Ya Mu]

Today I had the day off.

 

In the backa my yarda this morning practicing. Beautiful sunshiny day.

 

Protection check first - Stillness-Movement for a bit, then moved into Gift of the Tao.

 

Attracted woodpeckers and sparrows. They landed close to me and were visible on the oak tree. One (woodpecker, huge fella) landed on a small tree so close I could have reached out and touched it. We made eye contact.

 

Pleasant peaceful feeling....practiced for a bit then paid my respect to the oak tree. All the while woodpeckers and sparrows about..uninterested and not alarmed by me.

 

Moved away from the tree to my original spot and practiced some more until I felt the stillness. I focused on your question then and asked the Earth. Wasps immediately became visible around me. One started circling really close and then went kamikaze trying to get into my face, repeatedly pinging off of it, and my neck and shoulders.

 

Question brought a sick feeling in my stomach as well as an all over body shudder...my hands wove side to side and I heard "burn".

 

I didn't see anything. My eyes were wide looking at nothing in paticular...when outside I sometimes see "snow" - little particles floating about...especially when I look at the sky. But...I didn't see anything change when I asked...just felt it...like it was me responding to something with distaste.

 

Ah, yes, you didn't see anything, but you did SEE very well. Remember, seeing is looking, SEEING is "totality of perception."

Here is the thing; SEEING requires much energy. If you hadn't practiced the Stillness-Movement and Gift of the Tao before you made the attempt, it wouldn't have happened in the same manner.

You are doing very good in your progress!

I would suggest not making the attempt to SEE but around once a week for several months. It helps to have the energy body solidified with the Stillness-Movement practice. But you do have a talent (more than one).

And remember that some people SEE better with their eyes closed, others not.

 

I got carried away trying to make a point i didn't have to make.

Based on experience and education i think that:

- sending sick Qi into the Earth will not solve the problem, because you need meditation experience to be able to work with the Earth's cauldron in order to transform that negative energy. Your Qi, whether good or bad, will still come back to you, because it's a part of you, and it wears your 'signature'.

So you can sink whatever amount or quality of Qi into the Earth, without transformation/alchemy practice, it won't make much difference, the sickness will return eventually.

- once you can do it with outside help (of the Earth) the next phase is when you can do it in your Inner Earth, inside yourself, without having to project it outside.

Sorry about the misunderstanding, it usually happens when we separate an idea from it's context, and forget about the large aplications and implications.

 

About stopping the world, I have a comment to make, as a former CC practicioner: it seems that the technique means more than just sitting silently and receptive. It's a spiritual event that can happen on occasions in a seeker's life, when all circumstances and timing and internal power is just about right. It usually comes after good years of correct hard working...

What it does is that it breaks down the barriers of perception in one instant. It's a consistent shift of the assemblage point, connected with some event known as 'the descent of the spirit'. It's really a long way, and hard work until you get there.

It's just my view, based on what i experienced, and learned, and witnessed.

 

L1

 

We are in much closer agreement with this.

 

And because it bears repeating for it is a very wise thing that some don't think so much about, let me repeat your words with an emphasis

It's really a long way, and hard work until you get there.

[宁]

oh good, i was beginning to worry

i think i have some idea about how hard is to give others a glimpse of the difficulty of the training, when it gets real.

well, what can i say, maybe it's better that way...

 

L1