RE: The Buddha Bums

[Lucky7Strikes]

There's your problem right there, calling it an incomplete path IS an insult silly. Get your head straight.

 

Why would he be a Buddhist if he didn't think so?

 

And why would you be a Taoist if you didn't think so?

 

Incomplete is incomplete. Start a discussion on why you think Tibetan Buddhism is incomplete, then it isn't insulting, but inquiring. And maybe both of you will reach a conclusion that it really IS incomplete. Or that Taoism is incomplete. These discussions are good as long as there is a sincere effort to learn and share.

 

Vajrahridaya wrote in the same sentence that his view has changed. But you only see the former part.

[chicultivation]

Edited August 29, 2009 by chicultivation

[Tao99]

Why would he be a Buddhist if he didn't think so?

 

And why would you be a Taoist if you didn't think so?

 

Incomplete is incomplete. Start a discussion on why you think Tibetan Buddhism is incomplete, then it isn't insulting, but inquiring.

 

Hey I'm with you. And he's been treated with a ton of tolerance and patience here. And so he's got to expect criticisms himself by the same rule right? Let the great debates begin and never end. I will begin by saying the Taoism practice is not incomplete - I can live just as well as you without adding any T. Buddhism. No fear.

 

But getting back to the OP, I guess the problem is a lot thinking this website is a "Taoist website" and then getting here and finding it's not about supporting fellow Tao practitioners like an esangha, but a free for all about any practice and supporting/critiqueing it as strongly as you like. So maybe it should be called the Metaphysical Bums to end this confusion.

[Encephalon]

[Sunya]

I have no problem with Vajra. So, someone's a Buddhist...who cares! There are all types of people here.

 

Instead, I have a problem with everyone else who feels the need to taunt him...or whatever it is they're doing...I guess you could also call it flirting. It just takes up a lot of space and doesn't do any good.

 

The purpose of this topic is to suggest that there's too much Buddhist discussion on this forum. I'm going to disagree, and suggest instead that there's too much personal, pointless arguing going on. I ask all of those involved to please stop. Take it to PM.

 

quoted for truth.

 

you guys should watch soap operas if you're that bored

 

I was wondering what Vajra's objective in coming to this forum was.

 

I still have no clue who you are LOL

have you noticed that your posts just get ignored? you come here and all of your posts have been criticisms of others. seriously why are you here? we're really doing fine here without you and these threads that keep popping up when the issue is long gone. last time I checked, which is 2 seconds ago, there are no Buddhist topics active at all.

 

Vajra has participated in wonderful discussions that many have learned from. this has been going on for months now, you've been here for a week. the better question is.. what is your objective in coming here and why are you posting dramatic bullshit?

Edited August 29, 2009 by mikaelz

[chicultivation]

quoted for truth.

 

you guys should watch soap operas if you're that bored

I still have no clue who you are LOL

have you noticed that your posts just get ignored? you come here and all of your posts have been criticisms of others. seriously why are you here? we're really doing fine here without you and these threads that keep popping up when the issue is long gone. last time I checked, which is 2 seconds ago, there are no Buddhist topics active at all.

 

Vajra has participated in wonderful discussions that many have learned from. this has been going on for months now, you've been here for a week. the better question is.. what is your objective in coming here and why are you posting dramatic bullshit?

 

This is one way to sideline some valid observations I have made, Fine

 

But don't you think it will be a valuable activity to evaluate your level of infatuation with Vajrahridaya? I am also curious to know why you said once you distance yourself from his behavior and then edited it out? Are you that infatuated with him?

 

Also, doing something useful will be much more beneficial than trying to figure out who I am, how many wasteful posts I have written etc. No?

[Vajrahridaya]

Thanks for the support from some you guys, and thanks for the criticism from others. I'll learn what I can from all of it. Thanks!!

 

Take care.

[Sunya]

This is one way to sideline some valid observations I have made, Fine

 

But don't you think it will be a valuable activity to evaluate your level of infatuation with Vajrahridaya? I am also curious to know why you said once you distance yourself from his behavior and then edited it out? Are you that infatuated with him?

 

Also, doing something useful will be much more beneficial than trying to figure out who I am, how many wasteful posts I have written etc. No?

 

you are not contributing. you're only wasting time and space here by continuing drama and personal issues that do not exist. the 'valuable observations' you've made are only valuable due to your subjective view. i'm guessing you're a middle aged female with too much time on her hands, the need to fix things and get involved in emotion must be very wrong, but if you're interested in change.. you can get over that and have meaningful conversation.

 

Vajra is a friend of mine off the forums, i'm not infatuated with him. we disagree often actually.. thats why I made that post but later edited it out after speaking with him and voicing my opinion about certain things. none of which are frankly your concern, Who you are is very important. you're acting like a moderator. chill, contribute in a different way.

[chicultivation]

Thanks for the support from some you guys, and thanks for the criticism from others. I'll learn what I can from all of it. Thanks!!

 

Take care.

 

Look at the difference now Vajra... these seem to be sincere words and now I feel like actually reading what you write seriously, learn a thing or two for you don't sound to have any hidden agendas or are trying to "clean" others.

 

We started off on a wrong foot, hope to talk to you much more cordially in future

 

 

 

you are not contributing. you're only wasting time and space here by continuing drama and personal issues that do not exist. the 'valuable observations' you've made are only valuable due to your subjective view. i'm guessing you're a middle aged female with too much time on her hands, the need to fix things and get involved in emotion must be very wrong, but if you're interested in change.. you can get over that and have meaningful conversation.

 

Vajra is a friend of mine off the forums, i'm not infatuated with him. we disagree often actually.. thats why I made that post but later edited it out after speaking with him and voicing my opinion about certain things. none of which are frankly your concern, Who you are is very important. you're acting like a moderator. chill, contribute in a different way.

 

I don't think you deserve a response.

 

Vajra seems to see and learn from his mistake, but not you. I would really need to undo my years of schooling, social conditioning and what are taught as good manners to be able to converse with you. Probably this is how you talk to your mother as well, but it is her problem not mine. I can and will chose to avoid getting filth from you by not engaging in a conversation with you. Sorry, not my cup of tea

Edited August 29, 2009 by chicultivation

[Sunya]

I don't think you deserve a response.

 

Vajra seems to see and learn from his mistake, but not you.

 

what mistake? not elevating you to the status of guidance councilor you desire on this forum?

what a bloated ego... coming to this forum with guns blazing wanting to change everybody.

Edited August 29, 2009 by mikaelz

[Ryan T.]

I really think that if people on here followed the paradigm of "I will only post things that I would also feel comfortable saying to this person's/these people's faces" then many or most of these issues would disappear.

 

In general I see a fair amount of anonymous disrespect going of late.

 

As for the original topic...I think people should take what they find from any tradition that will work for them and use it. I don't understand why people are so focused on names.

 

How does it go? The Tao that can be named is not the eternal something something something.

[JustARandomPanda]

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OMG!!!!!! *falls out of chair laughing*

 

[Sunya]

Vajra seems to see and learn from his mistake, but not you. I would really need to undo my years of schooling, social conditioning and what are taught as good manners to be able to converse with you. Probably this is how you talk to your mother as well, but it is her problem not mine. I can and will chose to avoid getting filth from you by not engaging in a conversation with you. Sorry, not my cup of tea

 

why should I act respectful to someone who acts do cordially disrespectful? your 'good manners' are just a veneer for the contempt you hold for others by acting so judgmental. you've been here a week and already you've started a thread on kicking out the Buddhists, you labeled everyone Buddhist here a 'gang' and post criticisms at how people are acting when you missed the whole beginning of the discussions, months ago, which were multiple discussions actually, and when the tension built up and things got hot.. you jump in calling Buddhists disrespectful and act like the Virtue police trying to show everyone how disrespectful they are acting... WHEN YOU JUST JOINED AND HAVE NO CLUE WHATS GOING ON!

 

well excuse me, I'm not here to act cordial. discussions get disrespectful, from BOTH sides, but thats how the Tao Bums is.. we are afterall humans.. and things change, PLUS that was a while ago. I've been here for 2 years, so I know what this forum is like. tensions cool off quickly. but yet you want to continue that tension and drama for whatever reason. I don't get it.. its as if you have nothing else to talk about. and then you insult the Dalai Lama, call him a dictator, and compare him to Hitler? and then expect me to treat you like my mother? No. though Buddhism says I should, i'm not a good Buddhist, until you change your attitude, and stop trying to change others, you will get no respect from me. I don't need your criticism.

 

i'm done with this drama.

Edited August 29, 2009 by mikaelz

[JustARandomPanda]

Is anyone else confused as to whether Chicultivation is a man or a woman? One post authored by CC signed off with the woman's name of Sandra. But then another mentioned CC's wife and children. Or perhaps CC is a lesbian in one of the states that now legally recognizes lesbian marriage?

 

I do not mean to be insulting. I'm just curious.

[Encephalon]

Is anyone else confused as to whether Chicultivation is a man or a woman? One post authored by CC signed off with the woman's name of Sandra. But then another mentioned CC's wife and children. Or perhaps CC is a lesbian in one of the states that now legally recognizes lesbian marriage?

 

I do not mean to be insulting. I'm just curious.

 

Bi-curious?

 

Sorry. Male attempt at humor. No. Lame attempt at humor. Wait...

[Gerard]

I reckon we should call this forum:

 

The Blindmen and the Elephant Bums.

Edited August 29, 2009 by durkhrod chogori

[Marblehead]

Have y'all notice that I am staying out of this one?

 

Happy Trails!

[Mal]

Re: rename to the budda bums. It's probably only fair, didn't we "obtain" a minor temple once called White Cloud Monastery (Biyun Guan)

 

I've actually not been that interested in the threads where the big dogma debates happen so it all seems a bit

[ralis]

What I have trouble with is Vajraji's view of the Buddha as the absolute of the absolute. After all, Vajraji claims the Buddha talked to aliens, gods and all sorts of enlightened beings. UFO's perhaps? Does that mean the Buddha understands the nature of the this universe, parallel worlds and whatever phenomena exists? I doubt it!

 

Vajraji has fallen into the trap of explaining all phenomena as merely dependent on some sort of emptiness. Empty of? Furthermore, he uses Einstein's theories as some sort of proof. Which part? General or special?

 

BTW, there are a number of people here in Santa Fe that regularly talk to aliens and deities. What does that make them? Hmmmm......

 

 

ralis

Edited August 29, 2009 by ralis

[ZenStatic]

Wow, has this site turned into a pile of shit. No wonder most of the people from years ago that posted the good stuff have left and moved on to other forums.

 

You do realize, that if you have belief in something, and it's real faith, you will ALWAYS think your path is the best. Otherwise why are you following it in the first place? This site has degenerated into some buddhists, hiding taoists, and and a giant lynch mob.

[Encephalon]

Wow, has this site turned into a pile of shit. No wonder most of the people from years ago that posted the good stuff have left and moved on to other forums.

 

You do realize, that if you have belief in something, and it's real faith, you will ALWAYS think your path is the best. Otherwise why are you following it in the first place? This site has degenerated into some buddhists, hiding taoists, and and a giant lynch mob.

 

Good morning. This is not a rhetorical question. What characterized the "good stuff?" I've learned a few things in here as a newcomer, but it can be depressingly banal. Was there more intellectual integrity then, or was it less infantile? I am so ready to bail on the whole thing, but I still get helpful advice on the somatic side of Taoism.

[Mal]

It was sort of the same variations of good, bad or ugly.

 

You get out what you put in.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

OK. Let me attempt to summarize the way things appear to me.

 

>Yes, things seemed nicer in the "old days" when there were fewer members and a more cohesive membership. But, TaoBums has grown enormously recently. As such, there are many new members whose interest in Tao/taoism is peripheral, marginal or non-existent. This has led to a lot more varied threads. Some don't like to see too much about martial arts in topics. Some don't like the Buddhist barrage. Whatever, the thing is, with so many people now of diverse interests, there is a lot more commotion. That's going to part of the growth of a forum, like it or not, we're going to see a lot more of everything here. (I do enjoy the variety, but it gets harder to sort through the stuff with so many new posts and topics).

 

>Of course, Buddhist discussion should be encouraged here. What is frustrating to many is when the Buddhism invades most any discussion on unrelated topics. A casual observer may wander into a thread or two, and wonder,"What's the problem? These guys are just bringing their Buddhist perspective, and there's nothing wrong with that. We all learn something." Others who are participating more actively, become frustrated when many discussions become hijacked, in their view to one or two committed Buddhist who seem to have a mission, are not open , really, to other points of view. Others points are not taken, but refuted, and the superiority of a particular brand of Buddhism is constantly trumpeted. This might be OK if the Buddhist started a thread with a particular Buddhist topic, but Buddhism has seemingly "invaded" the forum by an individual with boundless energy and intellectual and spiritual enthusiasm.

 

>Fact: Vajra is a divisive figure here. Perhaps he is a litmus test inside of us. (Personally, I find him deeply irritating. But that's as much about me as him, I realize). Perhaps he might ask himself why not just one, but a number find him so off-putting.

 

>He does have his supporters. Some of the supporters are these people who haven't been following closely and wonder what the fuss is about. Others approve of him. If you read back, there are several people who find his attitude overbearing and subtly insulting. Vajra himself, until this thread perhaps, has not had insight into how he comes off to some people, despite varying attempts of frustrated others to point out his behavior. He seems to be bewildered that others have a problem with him, and throws it back at them. This increases the frustration.

 

> Vajra has become devisive by having a strong viewpoint, and often coming off as dismissive and disrespectful to others points of view. He does not realize or does not admit to this. Because of his well meaning energy, enthusiasm and intellect, that he posts a lot, and touts the supremacy of his brand of Buddhism, others react strongly to this subtle divisiveness, and begin to argue with him personally (including myself).

 

>He has a right to be here, to say the things he does. Because of his manner, those that feel affronted by his attitudes also have a right to oppose him. Otherwise they feel that someone has invaded and taken over, to some extent, monopolizing the discussion. This does become tiresome, however.

 

>As a community that is growing so rapidly, we have to sort out how we will deal with this kind of thing. Some are considering leaving because of the wrangling. Others consider leaving because of the dilution of the spirit of the forum and the invasion of other interests.

 

My take on it .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

Edited August 29, 2009 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[Marblehead]

Wow, has this site turned into a pile of shit. No wonder most of the people from years ago that posted the good stuff have left and moved on to other forums.

 

You do realize, that if you have belief in something, and it's real faith, you will ALWAYS think your path is the best. Otherwise why are you following it in the first place? This site has degenerated into some buddhists, hiding taoists, and and a giant lynch mob.

 

There are a number of us Taoists who do not hide. But mostly we don't speak unless we have something to say.

 

Happy Trails!

[Vajrahridaya]

What I have trouble with is Vajraji's view of the Buddha as the absolute of the absolute. After all, Vajraji claims the Buddha talked to aliens, gods and all sorts of enlightened beings. UFO's perhaps? Does that mean the Buddha understands the nature of the this universe, parallel worlds and whatever phenomena exists? I doubt it!

 

If you read Buddhism, he actually does. These phenomena are explained in Buddhist texts long before science made any such claims.

 

Vajraji has fallen into the trap of explaining all phenomena as merely dependent on some sort of emptiness. Empty of? Furthermore, he uses Einstein's theories as some sort of proof. Which part? General or special?

Things are empty because they are dependent. Things are all connected in a vast field of relativity.

 

BTW, there are a number of people here in Santa Fe that regularly talk to aliens and deities. What does that make them? Hmmmm......

ralis

 

Just because you lack experience doesn't make the experience impossible. Being so intelligent, you should hold a view that is more open to infinite possibility, no? Instead of limiting everyone to your thus far experienced limits, you could say... we'll, I doubt... but there's room to doubt my doubts as well. Let's see.

 

You don't think that would be a wiser place to be?