Maharasa Posted August 31, 2009 Does anyone have the contact info/email for either Andrew Lum in Hawaii and/or Patrick Moon Thanks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ssttinstitute Posted August 31, 2009 Does anyone have the contact info/email for either Andrew Lum in Hawaii and/or Patrick Moon Thanks Who wants to know? You are talking about 2 masters that can completely uproot the Kunlun Community. 50% of the post on this entire forum has promoted Max to hero status. www.kunlunbliss.com Do you really want to destroy Max this badly? Because this is what will happen if either Andrew Lum or Patrick Moon ever knew what Max really does, what Max claims he knows and how he treats his students! Pick up a copy of the magazine "MMA Hawaii" August 2009 Issue for more information. Then decide if this is something you seriously really want to pursue Fact being you do NOT contact masters like Andrew Lum or Patrick Moon by contact info/email. You meet with them face to face, man-to-man! If you do not have the courage to do so then I highly suggest you do not have any contact with them at all. When you talk about Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon, you are talking about men of honor, the best of the best in the world of martial arts! Max has no powers over Andrew Lum, Patrick Moon or myself --as he/Max has over his own students, facilitators and instructors. So before I answer your question, my question is do you really want to meet these men face-to-face? If not, please leave this thread alone and I will pretend that you never asked your question. You will also be doing Max and his following a big favor This is a friendly post as I personally do not know you So I am curious why you want to know? ...only because of the ramifications it would have on the pro-Kunlun members of this forum. However it is obvious that the pro-Kunlun students, facilitators and instructors have never met Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon; so probably it will only enlighten them on what they have or have not learned. "You want the *TRUTH*...?", respectfully quoted from the movie 'A Few Good Men'. http://www.sstt-institute.org/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mal Posted August 31, 2009 (edited) Who wants to know? You are talking about 2 masters that can completely uproot the Kunlun Community. Well that a pretty left field reply that has forwarded that agenda. I knew none of that till you posted but with the Hawaii reference you can now find stuff like this http://www.buzzfile.com/business/Andrew-D-Lum-808-735-8871/ Edited September 4, 2009 by Mal Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ssttinstitute Posted August 31, 2009 (edited) With respect to "Old Tradition", this is totally out of line to approach these masters. If Maharasa wants to respectfully contact these masters.. follow tradition! Anyone can get anyone's address and phone number by Internet. You can get movie stars protected addresses and unlisted phone numbers, but you won't get anywhere except a TRO(temporary restraining order). There are respectful ways in which to meet these masters.. and trying to get their information off the Internet is a shameful way to approach these men. Sadly, It goes to show how much martial art traditions had deteriorated and the state of martial arts is in decay. The traditional old school approach would have earned Maharasa respect. Invading their privacy will only get him in trouble as just another wannabee enthusiast. With all due respect, just posting people's phone numbers, addresses, social security numbers, etc. etc. is a sign of disrespect to Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon especially since you don't know them. Before I give out phone numbers of friends, I respectfully asked their permission. I don't post it to an Internet forum. It is disrespective, rude and an invasion of privacy. If you want to meet Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon in this disrespectful manner, you will be treated with the same disrespect... any chance of learning anything from these great masters will be lost. The reason 99+% of the martial artist have no idea what they are doing. There is a process to learning from these great masters and cavalier treatment reduced to trivia guarantees that the world will never learn true martial arts. MMA Hawaii Aug 2009 is a magazine to describe what is true martial arts in it's ultimate form. The rest of the articles are purely a waste of time to anyone serious about martial arts. One of the reasons Max has achieved the greatness he has is because he respects tradition! For this reason I have to give Max credit that he is better than 98+% of the martial artist on this forum. Max is in a learning mode. Even though I don't agree 100% with Max, we completely agree that these great masters be approached with respect and one must follow protocol. I overestimated the caliber of martial artist on this forum If you can learn anything from this forum, learn to respect the great masters. Otherwise; the door to learning 'true martial arts' will be closed forever and you'll be stuck doing 'mixed martial arts' for the rest of your life http://www.sstt-institute.org/ Edited August 31, 2009 by ssttinstitute 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mal Posted August 31, 2009 (edited) With all due respect, just posting people's phone numbers, addresses, social security numbers, etc. etc. is a sign of disrespect to Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon especially since you don't know them. But whoever they are they are also normal people like the rest of us. Welcome to modern times. As you said anyone can get a phone number from the internet, It's public search engine link from information you provided? If they don't want to talk to someone on the phone just hang up like its a telemarketer! Rude or disrespectful and then a rant about the caliber of martial artists on forum? Edited September 4, 2009 by Mal Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maeven Posted August 31, 2009 I think the point is that unless you get invited/introduced to these old style sifus by someone they know, trust and respect, you won't get access to learning from them. The other point is that kunlun people are currently being threatened against talking to outsiders, so to do so WILL be a powder keg. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gendao Posted August 31, 2009 MMA Hawaii Aug 2009 is a magazine to describe what is true martial arts in it's ultimate form. The rest of the articles are purely a waste of time to anyone serious about martial arts. http://www.sstt-institute.org/ Is there anywhere online where we can find this article? I didn't see a functional link on their website? Or could someone possibly scan it in? You don't exactly find MMA Hawaii in most magazine stands on the mainland, lol... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Biff Posted August 31, 2009 (edited) Respectively edited. Edited August 31, 2009 by Biff Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ssttinstitute Posted August 31, 2009 You have never had a problem with Kunlun before? like I said you have teamed up with them. Are the certified 'Bliss' instructors controlled by Max? Biff Thank you, Biff for the comments above. Don't get me wrong, I am very fond of the Kunlun people as members of Kunlun have visited SSTT and SSTT has been invited to Kunlun activities. I even have Kunlun instructors and students posted to my website and MEETUPs. I did get your 'PM' and was about to go to sleep. Your 'PM' was very respectful so I was going to answer it this morning; however, since your post is public.. I am posting publicly. Yes, I have teamed up with Kunlun people because they are nice, polite people I have nothing against the Kunlun Community because everyone I have met in Kunlun have been friendly, polite and courteous. What has alarmed me is the CULT MENTALITY in which many of the Kunlun students have been unable to freely interact with others of their lineage. The fear exhibited whenever they question Max or want a second opinion who personally knows Andrew Lum or Patrick Moon. My students are free to visit Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon. My students can also freely associate with any of Andrew Lum's students and Patrick Moon's students. My students are also free to visit Max and attend Kunlun classes and seminars. I have been made fully aware that Kunlun people are not suppose to visit Andrew Lum, Patrick Moon or myself. On one hand Max openly praises Andrew Lum in his seminars, then on the other hand Max or some of his members will insult and humiliate Andrew Lum to the point there are no Kunlun students who dare visit anyone in the lineage of Lum Dai Yun, which includes Andrew Lum, Patrick Moon and myself. This is a strange contradiction. If this contradiction is a product of Max's students getting out of line, Max can straighten this out. If this is a contradiction of Max, again Max can straighten this out! So my question is this "strange story" disrespecting Andrew Lum passed along among Kunlun students based on what Max says.. to disrespect Andrew Lum or are Max's students disrespecting Andrew Lum because they want to make up some "off the wall story" so that Max's true history with Andrew Lum may be questioned. Any and all Kunlun students are more than welcome to share the story used to humiliate Andrew Lum in private while Max praises Andrew Lum in public. Andrew Lum, Patrick Moon and myself would like to know how this story was started and why it is used as a tactic to keep Kunlun members in check. However this story that the Kunlun members make for disrespecting Andrew Lum may be completely unfounded and Max has no idea that his students are insulting Andrew Lum behind closed doors. If this is true then Max is more than welcome to read this thread to correct insults being made toward Andrew Lum. Andrew Lum and myself are very passive as we handle unruly students in our own way. We can take being insulted by our students verbally in public and in private. Patrick Moon can also handle insults public and private, but Patrick Moon is very pro-active. If students of Andrew Lum or my students are desrespectful, there are no secrets in our classes how disrespectful, ill mannered students are treated! It is built into our lineage and discipline so that our numbers remain small and the power of this art is not abused. As of last month the lineage of Lum Tai Yun was given permission to go public. You can read the details in the August 2009 issue of MMA Hawaii. In this way, the lineage is still taught to those seeking to learn this style. This also puts "checks and balances" of those who would abuse their students in our lineage. My students have gone to Hawaii and can freely visit Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon. Patrick Moon has come to visit myself and my students on many occassions.. Patrick Moon has also "cleaned my house" of disrespectful students and those who remain are respectfully set straight about our lineage. There is no mystery about myself or Patrick Moon to those in our classes and our relationship to Andrew Lum If some of Max's students are running scared because they have been ill treated or abused, then it may be time for Max to "clean house". Our lineage does take offense if anyone is purposely spreading falsehood against Max only because they don't like Max. In this way we mean no disrespect toward Max. However, if Max is using cult tactics to keep his Kunlun students in check then this must be stopped. I have an open invitation to all Kunlun students, facilitators and instructors on how they can honorable visit Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon. If cult tactics are being used in the Kunlun Community, myself, Patrick Moon or Andrew Lum can assist to sever the connection imposed by any Kunlun instructor, facilitator, or student. Max knows better then to employ these tactics if he studied with Andrew Lum for 25+ years, if something has genuinely gone wrong to hurt some people in the Kunlun community, then this is something that can easily be corrected. As Maeven stated there is a certain protocol to visit these Masters(Andrew Lum, Patrick Moon). The classes being given by Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon are done by referral, so calling them up is just rude. If Max is so close to Andrew Lum then he knows the proper protocol and his students should be able to freely visit Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon. If some members of the Kunlun community are still intimidated and do not know proper protocol, I have no problems assisting them. Everytime I visit Andrew Lum, he inquires politely how my classes are coming along. Our numbers are small, but students do get a lot of personal attention at this time. For many years our lineage has been private and to some extent it was not open to the general public. Presently Patrick Moon has been authorized by Andrew Lum to chronicle our lineage as he(Patrick Moon) & Andrew have studied, practiced and work together for nearly 50 years I am also aware that the Kunlun community has been going through psychic experiences that are not always pleasant. It can result in headaches and spirit visitations. No one including myself is blaming Max directly as his classes grew so quickly through his "Bliss" method. Because Max's students who are now facilitators and instructors were never taught how to close this connection, SSTT has been the only alternative to empowering people to control the effects of the "Red Phoenix" and other Kunlun practices. Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon will also know how to shut down the effects of the Red Phoenix and sever any and all connections that have been a disturbing side effects of practicing Kunlun/Maoshan with Max. Again if Max is unable or unwilling to sever or assist in alleviating the disturbing side effects, Max knows the proper protocol on how his students, facilitators and instructors can contact Andrew Lum. If Max is unwilling to assist in this area, then you can contact me through my website and I will help make arrangements with proper protocol. vortex, I don't have the MMA Hawaii August issue. I know what is in the article. At this time MMA Hawaii is not publicly putting this on their website as it would make 'mixed martial arts' as we know it, completely obsolete. Mixed martial arts is a $billion$ dollar business so much of what we take for granted on this Tao Bums forum would be considered bad business for those who have invested so much money towards MMA in Hawaii. The article in "MMA Hawaii" was published out of respect for Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon regarding their contribution and guidance to the martial arts community through the Lum Dai Yun lineage Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Biff Posted August 31, 2009 I had no idea about all that. Thanks for the reply. It's also the first I have heard about fear to visit you guys etc. I stand corrected and have removed my previous post out of respect. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest winpro07 Posted August 31, 2009 (edited) "master" implies a person of great awareness. The above posts are surmising based on rumor and gossip, not awareness. Are there any great teachers, let alone masters who must rely on gossip to see the truth? Edited August 31, 2009 by winpro07 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kameel Posted August 31, 2009 This is in no way meant to be disrespectful, but can't you just ask Max what he says to his students. I have no experience with SSTT or Kunlun, but that seems a more direct means of communication. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
-O- Posted August 31, 2009 (edited) "master" implies a person of great awareness. The above posts are surmising based on rumor and gossip, not awareness. Are there any great teachers, let alone masters who must rely on gossip to see the truth? Questionable cause... Actually all of the following fallacies (cognitive dysfunctions) can be applied: relativist fallacy genetic fallacy appeal to ridicule Edited August 31, 2009 by -O- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gendao Posted August 31, 2009 (edited) Thank you, Biff for the comments above. Don't get me wrong, I am very fond of the Kunlun people as members of Kunlun have visited SSTT and SSTT has been invited to Kunlun activities. I even have Kunlun instructors and students posted to my website and MEETUPs. I did get your 'PM' and was about to go to sleep. Your 'PM' was very respectful so I was going to answer it this morning; however, since your post is public.. I am posting publicly. Yes, I have teamed up with Kunlun people because they are nice, polite people I have nothing against the Kunlun Community because everyone I have met in Kunlun have been friendly, polite and courteous. What has alarmed me is the CULT MENTALITY in which many of the Kunlun students have been unable to freely interact with others of their lineage. The fear exhibited whenever they question Max or want a second opinion who personally knows Andrew Lum or Patrick Moon. My students are free to visit Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon. My students can also freely associate with any of Andrew Lum's students and Patrick Moon's students. My students are also free to visit Max and attend Kunlun classes and seminars. I have been made fully aware that Kunlun people are not suppose to visit Andrew Lum, Patrick Moon or myself. On one hand Max openly praises Andrew Lum in his seminars, then on the other hand Max or some of his members will insult and humiliate Andrew Lum to the point there are no Kunlun students who dare visit anyone in the lineage of Lum Dai Yun, which includes Andrew Lum, Patrick Moon and myself. This is a strange contradiction. If this contradiction is a product of Max's students getting out of line, Max can straighten this out. If this is a contradiction of Max, again Max can straighten this out! So my question is this "strange story" disrespecting Andrew Lum passed along among Kunlun students based on what Max says.. to disrespect Andrew Lum or are Max's students disrespecting Andrew Lum because they want to make up some "off the wall story" so that Max's true history with Andrew Lum may be questioned. Any and all Kunlun students are more than welcome to share the story used to humiliate Andrew Lum in private while Max praises Andrew Lum in public. Andrew Lum, Patrick Moon and myself would like to know how this story was started and why it is used as a tactic to keep Kunlun members in check. However this story that the Kunlun members make for disrespecting Andrew Lum may be completely unfounded and Max has no idea that his students are insulting Andrew Lum behind closed doors. If this is true then Max is more than welcome to read this thread to correct insults being made toward Andrew Lum. Andrew Lum and myself are very passive as we handle unruly students in our own way. We can take being insulted by our students verbally in public and in private. Patrick Moon can also handle insults public and private, but Patrick Moon is very pro-active. If students of Andrew Lum or my students are desrespectful, there are no secrets in our classes how disrespectful, ill mannered students are treated! It is built into our lineage and discipline so that our numbers remain small and the power of this art is not abused. As of last month the lineage of Lum Tai Yun was given permission to go public. You can read the details in the August 2009 issue of MMA Hawaii. In this way, the lineage is still taught to those seeking to learn this style. This also puts "checks and balances" of those who would abuse their students in our lineage. My students have gone to Hawaii and can freely visit Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon. Patrick Moon has come to visit myself and my students on many occassions.. Patrick Moon has also "cleaned my house" of disrespectful students and those who remain are respectfully set straight about our lineage. There is no mystery about myself or Patrick Moon to those in our classes and our relationship to Andrew Lum If some of Max's students are running scared because they have been ill treated or abused, then it may be time for Max to "clean house". Our lineage does take offense if anyone is purposely spreading falsehood against Max only because they don't like Max. In this way we mean no disrespect toward Max. However, if Max is using cult tactics to keep his Kunlun students in check then this must be stopped. I have an open invitation to all Kunlun students, facilitators and instructors on how they can honorable visit Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon. If cult tactics are being used in the Kunlun Community, myself, Patrick Moon or Andrew Lum can assist to sever the connection imposed by any Kunlun instructor, facilitator, or student. Max knows better then to employ these tactics if he studied with Andrew Lum for 25+ years, if something has genuinely gone wrong to hurt some people in the Kunlun community, then this is something that can easily be corrected. As Maeven stated there is a certain protocol to visit these Masters(Andrew Lum, Patrick Moon). The classes being given by Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon are done by referral, so calling them up is just rude. If Max is so close to Andrew Lum then he knows the proper protocol and his students should be able to freely visit Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon. If some members of the Kunlun community are still intimidated and do not know proper protocol, I have no problems assisting them. Everytime I visit Andrew Lum, he inquires politely how my classes are coming along. Our numbers are small, but students do get a lot of personal attention at this time. For many years our lineage has been private and to some extent it was not open to the general public. Presently Patrick Moon has been authorized by Andrew Lum to chronicle our lineage as he(Patrick Moon) & Andrew have studied, practiced and work together for nearly 50 years I am also aware that the Kunlun community has been going through psychic experiences that are not always pleasant. It can result in headaches and spirit visitations. No one including myself is blaming Max directly as his classes grew so quickly through his "Bliss" method. Because Max's students who are now facilitators and instructors were never taught how to close this connection, SSTT has been the only alternative to empowering people to control the effects of the "Red Phoenix" and other Kunlun practices. Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon will also know how to shut down the effects of the Red Phoenix and sever any and all connections that have been a disturbing side effects of practicing Kunlun/Maoshan with Max. Again if Max is unable or unwilling to sever or assist in alleviating the disturbing side effects, Max knows the proper protocol on how his students, facilitators and instructors can contact Andrew Lum. If Max is unwilling to assist in this area, then you can contact me through my website and I will help make arrangements with proper protocol. vortex, I don't have the MMA Hawaii August issue. I know what is in the article. At this time MMA Hawaii is not publicly putting this on their website as it would make 'mixed martial arts' as we know it, completely obsolete. Mixed martial arts is a $billion$ dollar business so much of what we take for granted on this Tao Bums forum would be considered bad business for those who have invested so much money towards MMA in Hawaii. The article in "MMA Hawaii" was published out of respect for Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon regarding their contribution and guidance to the martial arts community through the Lum Dai Yun lineage Thank you for the thoughtful & informative reply, as usual, Dr. Hata. I'm not really sure what the alleged story between Max & Andrew Lum is, but I assume they had some falling out, although Max still respects him as one of his longtime teachers. Well, at least that's my impression, accurate or not... Just curious though, what are the higher level goals or "endgame" of Lum Dai Yun? Is the "Gold Dragon Body" jalus anywhere in there, or are there different attainments? Edited August 31, 2009 by vortex Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sloppy Zhang Posted September 1, 2009 I don't have the MMA Hawaii August issue. I know what is in the article. At this time MMA Hawaii is not publicly putting this on their website as it would make 'mixed martial arts' as we know it, completely obsolete. Mixed martial arts is a $billion$ dollar business so much of what we take for granted on this Tao Bums forum would be considered bad business for those who have invested so much money towards MMA in Hawaii. Forgive my ignorance, I don't know anything about the Lum Dai Yun lineage. The only reason I recognize Andrew Lum's name is because it has been brought up in past Kunlun discussions. Can you please clarify this statement? It sounds to me like you are claiming to have an art that is superior to MMA. I'd like to get clarification from you before I continue with my train of thought and post a response that isn't in line with your intended meaning. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maeven Posted September 1, 2009 This is in no way meant to be disrespectful, but can't you just ask Max what he says to his students. I have no experience with SSTT or Kunlun, but that seems a more direct means of communication. Kunlun people are now being forbidden and threatened from inquiring about the SSTT side of Max's training/lineage, or having any contact with people able to confirm or deny his claims. A truly enlightened master would have no fear of sister lineages sharing support, information and working together. They would not need to manipulate, blackmail, attack, or make threats in order to isolate their students (or followers) from those outside the "flock". Their practice should stand for itself without fear or any of these types of manipulations. The foundation of what they teach and where they come from should be verifiable without any inflation, ego, tension or fear. It is never a healthy relationship when you must hand over your power to a mentor, follow his every word without question, cut yourself off from your support network or those outside your practice, force yourself to feel indebted to him and at the same time unworthy because you can't make yourself become invisible or see him as a glowing dragon and most of all, to completely hand over your filter to reason, question and make sure your experiences match up correctly with what's being taught. Your teacher should not make you feel vulnerable, scared, disproportionately indebted, unworthy because you have virtually nothing to show for the hard work at your practice, isolated, abused, at risk from the psychic part of the training or from your teacher, and unable to protect yourself. This is not empowering, no matter how many new age words are used at the time it's being taught. This is not healthy. This is not enlightened behavior. It's not even basic decent behavior. What it is, is a form of abuse. In fact, these behaviors are listed in "cult watch" lists all over the internet. I want to encourage anyone finding themselves in this position to trust how you feel and take steps to find support for yourself. Don't ever let any other person--master, human, dragon, alien or otherwise EVER remove your filter to judge things for yourself or to take away your power. Empowerment means you feel stronger, better, more skilled, and your life is like flying colors of success, happiness and well being (WITHOUT needing to trick yourself into seeing it that way!). Only YOU can earn that for yourself, it can never be given by any other, no matter the promise or the price. A teacher can only give you tools and point you towards doors, but if those doors don't work, or they are laced with booby traps, that doesn't mean your dream is dashed or you have to now flail in pain in the dark, or that you're just not good enough to get it right. It means this wasn't the right door for you. Trust in yourself. If it feels right, if your life is thriving, if you can see and experience direct, tangible, real results, then it's working. If it's a landscape of fear, intimidation, an ongoing sense of failure, anxiety, pain or unrest, you're not looking in the right place for your particular path. The "way" isn't about tricking yourself into thinking so positively that no matter what's really in front of you and how terrible it is, you can remain in bliss. It's about finding tools that make your REAL LIFE catch up with the mental projection you are deliberately trying to create. Sometimes our path towards enlightenment and mastery includes a few detours. Sometimes it includes learning to not put your teacher on a pedestal (like a demi-god), and usually it ends with each of us finding that the master was inside us all along...we just had to learn to listen to and trust the guidance trying to get our attention from within. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted September 1, 2009 Kunlun people are now being forbidden and threatened from inquiring about the SSTT side of Max's training/lineage, or having any contact with people able to confirm or deny his claims. Is this really true? I've heard nothing of it. On the kunlun forum, stuff about SSTT was actually advertised. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maeven Posted September 1, 2009 Is this really true? I've heard nothing of it. On the kunlun forum, stuff about SSTT was actually advertised. Yes, it is. It's recent, and it makes me really angry and sad. I just want to support anyone going through this to find their way through it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest winpro07 Posted September 1, 2009 (edited) Kunlun people are now being forbidden and threatened from inquiring about the SSTT side of Max's training/lineage, or having any contact with people able to confirm or deny his claims. No one has been forbidden. SSTT was advertised on the KUNLUN forum. KUNLUN is only about enlightenment, not martial art There is no need to compare Maeven, if you are not a student of SSTT or Hata Sensei why are you gossiping? Edited September 1, 2009 by winpro07 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hyok Posted September 1, 2009 I'm getting odd vibes from this thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest winpro07 Posted September 1, 2009 enlightenment is 'the' result of this practice. I am not the first person to know this and will not be the last to say it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest winpro07 Posted September 1, 2009 (edited) Edited September 1, 2009 by winpro07 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rodgerj Posted September 1, 2009 (edited) Edited March 22, 2010 by rodgerj Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted September 1, 2009 (edited) Yes, it is. It's recent, and it makes me really angry and sad. I just want to support anyone going through this to find their way through it. Well, I was kind of asking for proof. Or at least a story of what happened. I give everyone the benefit of the doubt, but it seems odd when an anonymous person joins this forum and starts making such strong claims right away... ... ...whoops, I just saw rodgerj's request that this thread would end. I agree with what he said. Edited September 1, 2009 by Scotty Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest C Yu C He Taiji Posted September 1, 2009 Hi, I for my part can only say that when I met Max he presented his Maoshan teachers, including Andrew Lum, in the best light. He told stories of them to inspire us. He has also mentioned that the proper protocol is very important due to several reasons. I myself want to start the SSTT training and have contacted Michael Denny to see how I can meet and train with him. Of course I want to see Shifu Hata and Andrew Lum someday so as to learn more about the Maoshan arts. Never has Max tried to convince me of something else. It is really sad that all this gossip runs down the reputation of so may people. Chrisn Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
